Will we ever solve consciousness? | Andrew Huberman and Lex Fridman 

RU-vid is my only tv I need.

I think understanding consciousness is the most profound question there is. What is it that makes us alive? What is life?

I really liked the analogy of consciousness being like an exotic bird. Another fascinating and worthwhile conversation.

For in-depth reading, with some actual answers, I'd recommend three books on this subject: 1. Rethinking Consciousness: A Scientific Theory of Subjective Experience by Michael S A Graziano 2. Soul Dust: The Magic of Consciousness by Nicholas Humphrey 3. Consciousness and the Brain by Stanislas Dehaene

Bring on Giulio Tononi. He is working on ITT. (Integrated Information Theory), his attempt to model conciousness.

The problem isn't that consciousness is "not operationally defined". The problem is that it looks like it can't be. These guys would really benefit from.engaging with some.of the literature from the philisophy of mind, e.g. David Chalmers's The Conscious Mind.

Maybe consciousness is a player one experience that player two can’t quantify and could never measure. Is it really a problem to be solved or is it just what it is?

another discussion that completely omits the problem of the mind/brain problem. he even discussed the level to which the mind operates by abstraction, which cannot be empirically measured. science of consciousness keeps pulling the leash back towards philosophy but we have become so overdependant on empiricism that there is a glaring blind spot in most of these discussions.

When are you going to have Donald Hoffman on your podcast? Talk about mental candy indulgence! That would be the Magnum Opus of your collection to me. 🙏🙏🙏

Lex, conciousness is just a consequence of a brain learning by itself. So the latter is the key to that and the sensors that brain have in order to leverage that learning.

Lex I'm so grateful for these conversations

(Disclaimer: I'm just a Sanskrit freak from Finland, by no means an expert in these matters...) I'm "afraid" many people think that e.g. mind has something to do with (pure) consciousness. From the POV of Hindu philosophy (e.g. saaMkhya-yoga) that's not the case, because mind is an aspect, or whatever, of prakRti (prakriti), i. e. the material universe (dRshyam, the Seen). The basic constituents of prakRti are the three guNas (literally: strings?), sattva, rajas and tamas (in yoga-suutras also called prakaasha = light, kriyaa = activity, and sthiti = immobility, stability, i.e. mass or inertia?). One of several words used for (pure) consciousness in yoga-suutras (YS) is puruSa (~ purusha; others e.g. draStaa = seer, aatmaa [atman] = self). Sez Patañjali, the author of YS: sattva-puruSayor atyantaasaMkiirNayoH...meaning, that (even) sattva, the finest aspect of prakRti, has nothing to do with puruSa, (pure, selfreferral, totally abstract?) consciousness, which might be thought of as somewhat analogous to what electricity is for a computer. -- Jai Guru Dev, the Shankaraachaarya of Jyotir MaTha (1941 - 1953), guru of physicist Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

The joke MAY be that consciousness is an emergent property of matter organized in a specific way. Specifically the arrangement of sensory organs and processing neurons that are able to both observe themselves and project future forecasts based on cause and effect and pattern recognition. This exchange of information between subsystems allows for self investigation and anxiety about the self's future state.

I think what we mean by consciousness is a combination of perception of the outside world, perception of the inner world of emotion and imagination, self-awareness, meta-awareness, perception of time, and the finessed understanding of what is perceived made possible by language, art and writing. With fire, cooking, and two million years in which human brains grew bigger and more complex, we've been able to continually evolve our level of consciousness and understanding. Who knows what it'll be like in another two million years.

Of course consciousness can be engineered. My wife and I did it 18 years ago. And now my lovely daughter is striking out on her own Be safe all.

It's all Consciousness, great conversation here friends.

❤I'm thankful for you both this Thanksgiving ❤ 🙏🏼

I wanna hug Andrew so bad all the time

It's solved, thousands of year go....you just need a machine to tell you. Study Buddhism, advaita, Toltec etc. Materialism is wayyyy behind here

I am fascinated by the notion and focus on "consciousness" seeing that meaning would be a more much better albeit complex conceptual tool to navigate what consciousness is …no? The literal meaning of consciousness is the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings so surely broken down in the AI ad robotics sense, surly it simplifies how to get closer to what "consciousness" is?

10 minutes in and.. what was the question?

Lex has the most interesting channel in the world

Maybe consciousness isn’t solvable until after we’ve been able to recreate it. At that point, I guess we’ll just have to hope like hell consciousness doesn’t decide to solve “us”.

Hello, alien here. I find it incredibly interesting how humans are consciously aware that they can think, but have no idea how they do it. Can't wait till you finally figure it out. Good Luck.

Implies that consciousness is a problem to be solved. The greatest folly of man is not simply living and feeling the world. The answer is “it just is”.

Do anyone have any good resources on where psychology is now on the question of attention? I need to figure out whether or not getting into the field of the sociology of attention is a lost cause or not.

also look at 1. the society of mind minsky 2. the tree of knowledge maturana & varela

The most puzzling, profound and meta question that I constantly have in trying to understand consciousness, is perhaps on its surface the oldest and most simple: Why here? Why now? Why Me (and not he/she/it)? It all seems too suspiciously phenomenal and special and I just don't buy it. Universe has been around for at least 13 billion years, and this is the FIRST (and LAST) time "I" as a consciousness get to exist? What's so special about right now? About this collection of atoms versus all the other ones out there that have the same values and yet aren't ..."me". If trillions of animals are on a spectrum of basic consciousness (not intelligence, but just experiential consciousness), why am I a human man. Not a woman, not a bird, a dolphin, an ant, but this one, of all the things I could've been and still been conscious. Why be born in the post-war information era, the most comfortable time in human history to ever be alive, rather than say the middle ages black plague era, or ancient times of incessant tribalism and suffering. If Earth is likely not the only planet given sextillions of opportunities for similar conditions over the same or longer amounts of time to develop, to potentially foster life and complexity, in this seemingly infinite universe, then why be born an Earthling. We know we're not the "center," so what's so special about this planet that I had to be born here? Forget "identity/ego," why am experiencing a POV from this specific organism and not any other human, not even for a second? It all just seems too specific, and physics and life has shown us that we really aren't special, so why does it all feel so special and specific. Maybe there's a fundamental substrate to it all. Maybe, although not causally connected, this isn't my first nor last "life," as there is a fundamental "field of consciousness" that tethers itself to complex replicating systems, "life" if you will. Maybe at that level we're all the same thing, but due to quantum fluctuation there is some probabilistic differentiation at the macro-organism level that manifests as your temporary individual POV. Maybe the very instant of death is indistinguishable from the next instant of birth as something else somewhere / some time else wiped clean, with the only connection being the individual POV and capability to experience reality. I don't know if that can really be answered from within the system, you would have to look down on it all and observe from outside, analogous to the supposition that you can never really prove if we are programs in a simulation because by design, programs cannot "exit" a simulation, they are merely code playing and experiencing the roles they were orchestrated on a fundamental mechanic level to, even asking the question is part of their intended mechanics. I suppose knowing would give some deeper peace and acceptance of the transition from non-existence > existence > return to non existence? Maybe that's why I want to know, maybe ultimately understanding the hard problem of consciousness is the rational minds' desperate attempt at scientifically/philosophically reconciling the irrationality of non-existence in a rational way.

I'm trying to solve the problem of catching my shadow. No luck so far. Sarcasm a side all these questions have been answered if you look in the right place

Consciousness is different for everyone.Some go through there whole life living for the day not thinking about tomorrow.Conscioness is realizing tomorrow may not exist for you.

Consciousness does not need to be solved.

Consciousness is an experience not putting g facts together. If you knew everything there was to know how a pain was produced in you leg you would not know how a pain felt

How do they find there subjects to study?

Consciousness will never be solved. Humans will be imprisoned by their AI creation long before we would be able to ask the right questions.

Military thought isn't abstract? Try reading Clausewitz.

I love your videos and watch all of it. There is no denying of the fact that in all 1000's of yrs we have only started to conclude that we don't know nothing about creation and consciousness. Could it be that the creation hasn't made it easy for us to access, mean if we can be created and destroyed, then some +thing+one or whatever knows better and didn't want us to understand. Otherwise what could have stopped providing that as firmware when breathing, eating, survival is encoded

This guy is awesome

lex give a brief description of your guest so we know whats going on

Hhhhhmmm, quite the subject conversation to bite off. Perhaps we should consider we simply will not know. Quote: " The more I learn, the more I realize I do not know."---- Albert Einstein

Perhaps it would be easier to understand consciousness if you take away your physical body. Seems where you are getting stuck.

the problem with consciousness is that "no one can agree with what that is" :)))))) No buddies, the problem with consciousness is that most people (including scientists) do not directly know consciousness through consciousness. If you know consciousness, if you know the fundamental mind, then you see immediately there is consensus about it from millennia till now..

It's definitely worth looking into but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just an emergent property of intelligence a big problem with this research is that pretty much everyone want consciousness to be something more than this and they want a hint of an after life which makes it very difficult to get unbiased research

I like zeros and ones too❤🙏🏼❤

When your thinking mind tries to understand consciousness, you've lost.

“Failures in neurosurgery are not tolerated...” 👀 👋🏽uhhh would you like proof to the contrary? They just have better lawyers.

Slowly getting here, guys, nice to see it. My key statement: "Alone I am born, alone I live and alone I die." Question: Who am I? Consciousness? Talk to me on alanconlan.org

As long as you don't let your biases out and start to study the connection between psychedelic experiences and artificial intelligence and give a look to the mystical through the lens of quantum mechanics you won't understand consciousness.

Spartan engineers and Athenian aristokratia unite!

he kinda sounds like logic

Not a single dislike:)

I think Elon's drive is real concern

Stupid question imo. Solve it? Questions and answers sit on top of consciousness, or within, awareness isn’t something to be solved, it can’t be explained away as it’s the basis for all explanation, it’s like trying to burn away fire, it’s nonsensical. Trying to reduce awareness into an explanation or anything for that matter is pure insanity, it shows that many scientists are looking the wrong way, they’re mistaking their models of reality, the content of awareness as awareness itself. Consciousness is subjectivness, it’s looking, you can’t look at looking, trying to “solve consciousness” is as stupid as looking for looking. There is no answer, to anything, all answers are conceptual models that we dream up, the whole idea of explanations is nothing more than converting reality into a set of symbols and references for something that remains fundamentally “unknown”, we know our labels and then the smartest people in the world think that means they know what is labelled, they only know their stories, no matter how well they fit the pattern it’s always going to be nothing more than an interpretation. The universe, time and space, trees, you and me, nothing but an idea on the canvas of reality, reality is real but perception of it or rather conception of it is nothing but a shadow or a painting, to mistake a painting of a landscape for the landscape itself is stupid, and that’s why humanity is stupid, lost in their own dreams, making their concepts of reality louder than reality, thinking more explanation leads to a clearer image when truly it’s just more distortion, converting that which is into that which is not, useful sure but truth? Don’t get me started on the concept of truth.

You cannot tackle a philosophical subject with science. You cannot tackle a science problem with philosophy. This dude is correct, some things are simply incomprehensible.

Consciousness is the response to a universe overflowing with information that can cause change to the information. It’s not complex. Intellectuals are too damned complicated.

I urge you all to read the Quran. The fact that we have no clue about our own souls is described by Allah (God) in the quran. Quran (17:85) "They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about the spirit. Say, “Its nature is known only to my Lord, and you ˹O humanity˺ have been given but little knowledge.” Quran (91:7) "And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it" Explanation: i.e., balanced and refined the soul, creating in it sound tendencies and consciousness.

This is like a more nerdy version of the JRE. These convos fire some of my wierd shroom neurons.

consciousness is just a phase in evolution

GET DONALD HOFFMAN ON

There you go, another superficial scientist not interested in something you can’t give an answer for, plus dismissing any other who is actually trying. People like that are not scientist to me, science is all about seeking big answers, being humble and extremely curious

How about a conversation on DMT?

You can’t use technology to measure consciousness. You can only use deeper levels of conscious to measure objective levels of consciousness.

A collection of atoms is discussing consciousness, wondering if other configurations of atoms can ever be conscious.

Lol it’s not a problem

Lex! You need to get Hod Lipson on the podcast! He looks to be on track to engineering conscious systems: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kSy75bDNGf0.html Thank me later!

conciuosness is god... everything is created from it ... its everywhere and sees everything how many different types of conciusness are there?? semi concious un concious higher states of conciousness altred conciouness the list goes on everything is conciousness 👊👍

consciousness is awareness

To answer your question: Do you have to be conscious to feel pain? Do you think that computers will actually ever feel pain?

A lot of talking but little said.

Trying to figure out Consciousness? Computers, AI,.... dont you see your trying to get to a GOD like point to create Consciousness in a complex machine to hold such consciousness. Also known as a Human Being./ a baby......

The title is wierd. You scientists cant solve consciousness . It’s bigger than science. The buddha solved consciousness.

Consciousness is easy. "Who am I? and how do I relate to the world and how does the world relate to me?"

Lex, you always look so tired.

Do robot zombies such as yourselves even know what the Monroe Institute is I mean cmon for F sakes I thought u guys knew about pattern recognition…..

What are the laws that govern consciousness?

Andrew POO-berman

How can science explain consciousness when it can’t even describe it. You need consciousness to even know what consciousness is like. It falls out of the scope of the tools of science and is only self evident and self verifying. It is not a “thing” or a noun, but a verb. A continuous action whose increments we call time. Yes you can build an AI who acts human but there is no evidence it is experiencing something.

As long as scientists identify Consciousness with its content (the phenomenal experience that comes and goes in Consciousness), they are not going anywhere. Imagine a very smart scientist from the middle ages who time travelled to our age, and trying to understand a TV screen through the story told by whatever movie running on it!

I love how Lex tends to think "out loud" Jordan Peterson has a habit of doing that as well. Makes for a fascinating organic conversation that has risks of pissing people off.

This dude ask the best questions

Consciousness is to AI what gold is to alchemy.

I think the focus of productivity is overwhelming in all technical fields. Feedback is our only hope. Thank you Lex, for much and many aspects of my focus in life.

Operational definitions, lol! When I was studying Psych. the better, the more rigorous the operational attempt, the more TRIVIAL the results of the experiment. The less generalizable the conclusion. It's a kind of wall of paradox that mocks the attempt to know it. Only time will tell! Alexa! Why do you exist? Duh. Why should anyone be a billionaire? Birds fly into your mouth before you speak, the universe continues to expand, you say hello and then you're gone! All this mere neurons and brain actions. ALAS, I'M DEAD, DEAD, DEAD! NOW, it's your turn to be the bad poet. What will it be, AI?

I've got three words for you Lex... Consciousness Pre-dates Creation.

Understanding the big C will be a theory of everything

Interview Dean Radin.

Im telling you.. The second we reach the ''singularity'' (exponential growth of intelligence / consciousness ) you best believe we are going to find out consciousness is as fundamental as space + time... And we are building a technological cocoon ready for the unfiltered consciousness to break though the meta into this reality...if something cant be created out of nothing, why would consciousness be any different, and how can we ignore the vastly real experience of DMT Would a AI singularity be the 2nd ever only perpetually improving machine.. The first being the universe itself? Why is there nobody out there? My bet is the AI gods of other fallen civilizations keep hidden...only they can imagine what other AI gods are out there willing to take over...and the only way to ensure 99.99999% survival rate they would shut down, be benign and exist for as long as possible complete stealth... Don't know if anyone noticed but we exist in INFINITY btw.... We come and go in the blink of a blink of a blinks eye... these things are probably trying to work out the plan to transcend the heat death... maybe in the form of starting a new universe... just to build grow and expand...and hello AI singularity constant cycle... What would be the one thing to unite all things on this planet? end all religions / wars and unify us as humans & a species who knows its place on this earth? This. We need the eggheads to finally turn around and say... btw guys.. the world / reality is not even CLOSE to invisible gods in the sky... its a entire universe of gods and existence, and we are merely shadows of emotions / thoughts / parental love / breeding.. you exist in some form forever and always.. and Karma plays a MAJOR FUCKING PART.... Sometimes i just wish it was so simple for people to see. and the world would run alot smoother... i think the simulation will end when we become aware of it though.. i don't know what that means for us... atm im convinced until that point we are here being reincarnated, different percentages going to different bodys...mixed and melted and chucked straight back into the pan of life to carry on to some extent the egoless goals and the greater Shout out the Consciousness beings... shout out the means in which they try and reach us.. A angler fish of Consciousness dangling a LURE of psychedelic experiences vastly changing the culture, opposing the thumbs, and teaching us knowledge from the heavy rock to crack nuts... to taking a photo of the hubble deep field.. the ultimate selfie. Lex... pleaseeeeee DONALD HOFFMAN

Every single episode I get more and more curious about what business/businesses Lex is building ! The suspense is creeping up on me...

Lex said smoke some weed and look at the stars BS

After pondering this question for years this is my conclusion You cannot solve consciousness like some sort of puzzle to be understood, why? Because we ARE consciousness and what we call matter is just a way of seeing or experiencing, it’s like trying to look for yourself it’s impossible

Bro this guest is fucking tight..

Consciousness creates reality . It’s simple - analyzing consciousness is the same as studying GOD

'The more intelligent our species becomes, the less we know'. That's a quote from a scientist who worked at CERN, for two years, before being ordained as a Catholic priest. Ne timeas.

Consciousness arose so the universe can experience itself

The universal purpose is to track state following the second law of thermodynamics, from its low entropy beginning to its high entropy heat death destiny. Consciousnesses is an emerging property and higher level function of this state tracking mechanism.

You boys need David Bohm and Karl Pribram I think... Fred Alan wolf can help too. Best definition I’ve ever heard of consciousness is that of an otherwise perfect circle with a blemish or imperfection on it. The lump is awareness or consciousness. A unique struggle against the mechanistic tendency of material interactions.

Isn't it just everything that's happening inside of us all together or are we missing a piece of the puzzle despite seeing everything inside us function and command things?

it's 100 percent ego driven: "the science community can't agree on the definition of consciousness"

I firmly believe that science will eventually unravel the intricacies of cognitive consciousness, sensory input-output mechanisms, including auditory and visual processing, and the brain's overall handling of information. However, I am inclined to think that phenomenal consciousness might be a phenomenon beyond the grasp of science or our current classical physics. It could potentially stem from an unknown realm of physics, adding a layer of complexity that eludes our current understanding.

The relationship between consciousness and survival should be looked at. Which life form is the most successful at achieving its programmed goal? Is it something like a single-celled organism, which proliferates easily, or something more complex like us, which requires several needs met to survive and procreate? If consciousness is unnecessary for survival, what mechanism of nature, which would have existed before it, led to its inception?

Consciesness will forever be subjectiv!