In this video I am starting to rebuild the rear axle from the CJ3A restoration that is underway in the shop right now. Today I will get the ring and pinion setup and show you some tips along the way.
Thanks for the tutorial. Maybe the best and easiest to understand gear set-up vid I've seen. I'm getting ready to re-build and put a locker in my Toyota FJ and this really clarifies things. Please keep them coming.
thanks for the comment, glad you liked the video. My next project in the shop is an FJ-40. I am putting in a Toyota/Lexus Aluminum block V8 into it. Will be putting a locker in the rear axle as well. Won't be for a while but I will make a video of it when the time comes. keep watching much more coming.....
Thanks for the comment Bill. It is great to know that people are enjoying the videos, and hopefully you are learning something from them. Keep watching there are many more videos coming.
metalshaper Hi Brian, where can I get a shim pack for setting the preload on my pinion from a Dana 44 from a 58 cj5? I love your videos they are very informative Dan
Thanks for the videos Brian. There is no way that I would have been able to build my jeep the wright way without your help!!!! Really appreciate it that you are willing to share the information
Hi Brian, another information filled video. Great tips, on saving time with using a yoke without splines and a set up bearing set. Always look forward to the next video. I'll be watching this one again when I rebuild mine. Thanks for taking the time and sharing your knowledge.
Hello George, glad you are picking up tips along the way from my videos, they will be helpful when you do your rebuild. Take your time, reference the video as much as necessary, and be patient when setting up your axle assembly. A little patience will go a long way in a good ring and pinion setup. Front axle is coming next, and many others to follow...... keep watching.
Thanks for the comment Mike. the only way I know if people are liking my videos is by the comments such as yours. thanks for being a supporter and keep watching for more videos.
I no this is a few years old. It was super helpful to tap into this type of knowledge. Exactly what I needed to get my differential done right. Thank you
Glad to help, I am still here making videos so if there is anything else you need help with I am sure there is a video out there for you and if not reach out and I can make one. Great to have people watching and learning.
Thx once again for the service manual and drums. This is Sat 01/25/20 and the manual is most helpful and both video's on front & rear axle rebuilds. Will keep you posted on our cj5 as we come along,,Bear
Brian, your videos are a excellent source of visual information and for me bring to life the information I read in the manuals. Thank you for taking the time and effort on each video. I would love to see a short video on the backlash dial setup and how that's done. Everything else you explain and demonstrate is nicely done. Mark
Thanks for the comment, glad you are enjoying the videos. Hopefully they will help you along with any projects you may have. Keep watching, front axle and many more videos coming.
Ran into the issue Brian this past wk with new Timken bearings that were of same number both cup & cones. Will drive one to pop open a cold beer, and wallk away for a few minutes to cool off,,,Came back to this video,,,super help, Bear
Finally got front diff straightened out. Shimmed more to get ring gear away from pinion. The new bearings are quite a different size than Timken originals. Thanks. Oh if there is a next time, I will invest in the setup sacrifice bearings. Very good lesson.
Great video. I will try to follow when tackling the Jowett Javelin and Jupiter differentials, which are Salisbury 3HAs. Keen to find out a good place to buy the bearing and shim kits
Hello Brian, although this is an older video I really like it because although unplanned things came up in the job you let the viewer know what you had to do to get to the final good assembly. I would have never expected such a change in shims with a bearing change as I think they are usually the same within tenths of a thou. Hind sight being 20/20 it probably would have been nice to use the pinion measuring tool to see where it was before the bearing change. When I have installed new or swapped gears and don’t know where the pinion should be set at, I don’t bother with the pinion preload shims or crush collars that some differentials use, just tighten the nut with just enough torque to get the right bearing preload. Then when I have finally got the pattern correct(after several pinion depth shim changes)I take it all apart again and shim or install the crush collar to get the high pinion nut torque required to keep the nut from loosening off in service.
This is a great Tutorial . To the point , No B.S. I've done a few D44. But still watch before ,just to make sure I don't miss anything . Getting older .My brain doesn't always work .like it suppose too . Even at 60 , I still do stupid stuff.
Brian all I have is the basic tools .. how do I remove the seals in the rear end with no special tools and install the seals ... I never worked on a rear end in my life .. you have inspired me enough I have removed the pinion and axles and ring gear .. inspected them noted the shims .. but I haven't took out the seals yet and clean the inside housing ...it's a 1946 Dana 41 rear end ... thanks Lee
Thank you for all of the great Jeep content. I’m halfway through my Dana 44 rebuild and I need to remove my new bearings to change up the shims. Can you tell me where I can find a bearing puller like the one you have in the video. Thanks again.
Hi Brian where can I get a shim pack to set the pre load on the pinion from a Dana 44 on a 58 cj5? I love your videos they are very informative and done well. Dan
Brian I hope you get this. I'm new to this RU-vid stuff. Thanks for your guidance pertaining to my 1972 cj5 rebuild. However, I'm confused your video indicates final torque on the dana 44 pinion nut at 100ft lbs. Yet according to my Haynes book spec require 200-220 for the rear Dana 44. My plan is to only change bearings. Thank you for all your help with the videos. Over and Out Uncle Bud.
I would like to set the pinion depth of a rear axle( Dana 44) and front axle as well( Dana 25/27 ) of a m38a1. May I use a depth micrometer to measure it? Do you know the dimensions from pinion face to the axis' centerline? Thank you!
curious, can you spin the pinion now with the diff assembled (minus the axles) and see the inch/lbs reading? I know the seal will manipulate the results with its drag. if you don't mind :)
Brian, was there a felt dust washer under the yoke that you installed? Mine was missing when I put in a new seal and I couldn't find where to buy a new one. Am I good just living without? Thanks, excellent video series!
Hello Tom, the felt washer under the yoke is not a standard part any longer and you are fine to install your yoke without one. If you are having a hard time with gear oil coming out the splines you can put a little modern RTV silicone, or permatex Right Stuff, on the very bottom of the yoke where it contacts the bearing surface.
What is the standard ring center to pinion top measurement on the Dana 41. The Jeep I'm working on is a 1950 Cj3a. I have a tool to measure it but don't know the spec. Hope you can help
Most early jeep vehicles that you find these days need lots of work but if you take your time and follow along with my videos you should be able to get thru the restoration process and learn a bunch along the way. good luck with your projects.
Love the videos. I've seen this one 3 times now. I just pulled apart my rear differential on my 1970 M38A1 CDN3. Its a DANA 44-1. Ring and pinion are all pitted and rough. I need to replace them and was wondering if I can just get all the parts from my local Napa, or do I have to watch the quality of parts and try to get original Spicer gears. What is a good source of all the parts I need and can you get rebuild kits with bearings and shims and seals and nuts and bolts etc.
you can get good quality parts from Pete DeBella. give him a call at 631 874 8660 and tell him that Brian sent you and you are looking for original gears. He has a lot of NOS parts.
I will try to get a locker video up in the future. I am putting one in the FJ-40 that is in the shop right now, and will film it when I install the locker.
If you replaced the tapered cup would you have to measure the variation from the old cup to the new cup and add or subtract the difference from the shims?....Hal
do not replace just a cup. If you have to replace anything on the axleshaft do it in a set, bearing and cup. Not one or the other, replace them both. Don't try to measure old and new and add or subtract shims. replace bearing and cup, assemble, and measure your endplay and add or remove shims.
Hello, your video was a lifesaver as I rebuilt my DANA 41. THANK YOU. I have a question; when I checked my preload, the rotational torque was good; however, once I put the rest of the axle together, the yolk is really hard to turn and feels choppy when I turn it clockwise. It is smooth going counterclockwise. The rotational torque fully assembled is around 75 inch lbs. I am stumped. Do you have any suggestions on what the issue might be?
It may be from lack of lubrication that is making it feel choppy. Are you carrier bearings too tight? I would try some lube and see if it feels better ,if not try to find out where something is wrong.
still trouble with diff on front end CJ3A. Pinion would not turn smoothly when new shims and bearings installed. It chunked. Thought pushing ring gear further away would be solution. When assembly was put in, everything moved smoothly, until tightening bearing caps pushed it down under torque, then I could not hardly turn pinion at all. Any ideas?
Not sure what is going on. Are you installing all new bearings? Did you measure original shim pack? Did you set the rotational torque correctly? Was the axle all together or did you get it in pieces? let me know where you are on pinion shims and let me know what , if any markings are on the pinion head. What is your backlash setting right now? I need more information to be able to help you thru the problems you are having. By the way, your lube order was shipped thru UPS and has been picked up and is on the way to you. Brian
I take it that when we measure the rotational torque, we are looking at the average torque while spinning the wrench? And not the torque required to start the yoke moving? Cause first assembly it takes about 50inlbs to start the yoke moving, then about 30inlbs as i slowly and uniformly turn the wrench.
I'm on my fifth or sixth attempt at trying to get between 12-20 inch lbs. For new bearing set up which end of the tolerance is more preferred? I'm shooting for the high end of 20 in lbs.
I’ve replaced the inner seals on the front CJ2A axle. Pinion bearings/races look good. I didn’t remove races. One small shim on outer bearing. When I try to torque down the yoke and test rotational bearing load I can’t tighten the nut enough to load the bearings to any real inch pounds. I removed the one shim but it’s not enough to adequately drag the bearings. All I can think of is that my bearings are old and have too much play to tighten up. Your thoughts? (Your videos are unbelievably helpful)
something isn't right, with no shims you should have some type of rotational torque. You are working on a dana 25 front end correct? There should be a spacer tube on the pinion and your shims should on top of that tube and under the bearing. If that is how you are assembling everything I would check the bearing spacer and make sure it is the correct length. with no shims in there you should be able to lock it up tight and not turn the yoke. Look over everything carefully there is something that isn't right. Are you sure you are getting the yoke seated down tight enough? Takes more than 150 ft. lbs. to tighten it correctly. Let me know. Brian
metalshaper ......it is a Dana 25. The pinion is marked +4 and 896 and something like 13 1H with an electric pencil on the bottom. One broken shim came out so I put one new in. The spacer is between the bearings. I only assume it’s the original. I bought the Jeep in 1975. With one shim I actually had play or up/down wiggle in the pinion/bearings. I removed the shim and tightened the yoke completely down with my impact snug. I have no play but no drag/load. Just tight but freely turning. I can’t imagine someone installed a longer spacer. All I can think of is that the bearings are too old and loose. Actually the outer seems to have more slop with the rollers. Inner bearing on the shaft seems tighter and less sloppy. I’m stumped except to buy new bearings/races. I don’t know the correct length of a new spacer to compare with. Note: my axle must be an early CJ2A as it has detachable steering arms on the knuckles.
Thanks for another awesome video! I’m changing bearings in a model 25 rear axle from a 42 MB. Someone was in there before. I found no pinion preload shims and some shims missing from the carrier. The pinion is marked -2 and had .015 shims for the depth. With new pinion bearings and new .015 shims I figured out how many shims needed to give me 18” lbs rotational torque. I measured the space between the bearing cup and the housing (no shims installed) with the carrier shifted to one side. .070 shims needed including .008 for bearing preload. With back lash set at .010 I can only get the drive and coast sides of the ring gear to hit on the toe near the face. No matter what I tried I cannot get the contact near the middle of the tooth on the ring gear. Could these gears be too worn to get a good pattern? Any advice will be helpful. Many thanks in advance.
Most model 25 axle assemblies have larger shim pack for depth. I have taken apart hundreds of them and the depth shims are usually around .028" to .032" you have a -2 so you need to add some shims so I would start at .032" and see where things go from there. That should put your tooth pattern in the center of the gear, but you will need to go back and shim for rotational torque and re adjust your carrier bearing shims as well. Take your time and make large shim moves at first, then as you get close you can make minor adjustments. Brian
Hey thanks Brian thanks for the quick reply. I was already up to .075 behind the pinion when I made my first post to you. The pattern came up about 1/3 of the way up the tooth and I had no shims on the one side of the carrier left to remove to set the back lash. I couldn't go any further. Now what, any suggestions? Thanks
@@paulrandazzo1391 If you have shimmed the pinion .075" then something is wrong. I have never had a shim pack larger than .035" in the hundreds and hundreds of model 25 axles that I have built. Hard to know what is going on without being there and seeing it, but sounds like something is wrong with the case or the gears. Brian
Hello Brian. Excellent content. I live in Sweden and I'm driving an 1963 Volvo 3314. All though the kit I got I different from the jeep that you are working with the technology is pretty mutch the same. This is my first off road vehicle I have there is a lot to learn and your videos have been very educationally. Especialy the dana 25 the front and rear axle, they look very simply to the ones on the 3314. I got interested in the lub and oil products that you offer. And I would like to purchase some of you if possible. How can I contact you conserning this.
All the specs for your rear end will be in the service manual. There is not a lot of rebuild info out there and that is why I have started making videos. Trying to get the help out there that people need when rebuilding their willys and jeep vehicles.
the best stuff to use when checking the pattern is actual ring and pinion pattern checking compound. you can get it at any ring and pinion retailer, summitracing.com, or a good automotive shop. Brian
I have really been enjoying your videos, I have acquired a rear end out of a 33 Willy’s do you know anyone that needs it, I had another question I am about to do a R&P on my 53 Chevy truck ( closed diff) do you recommend safety wire , I’m pretty sure they don’t have holes for it, much appreciated
I only use safety wire when the original bolts are poor quality. When I change them out I wire them. For a GM truck you may or may not have good quality bolts but you won't know until you look at them. You may be able to get better quality ring gear bolts for your project. Thanks for watching.
If I'm replacing the ring and pinion because there are chipped teeth, should I start with the same shim packs that where originally there, or are all bets off. Is ok to set the pinion depth based in the tooth pattern, or is the depth setting tool essential?
Gina, are you using new or used gears? New or used gears should have the pinion marked with a plus or minus showing the amount of pinion depth that needs to be changed. Compare that with your old pinion number and you should be able to get the pinion pretty close. As far as the carrier shims you can start with the originals but they may not work. That is why I always use loose set up bearings when putting in new gears. makes it super easy to pull the carrier and remove the bearings to change shims. Take your time and let me know if you have any more questions. Brian
metalshaper , I'm going to use NOS. I'll pay attention to any marking on the pinion. I did order an extra set of bearings to sacrifice for set up. Can I make a set up bearing cup for setting the pinion depth as well where I reduce the ,OD ,so if I have to reshim they come out easier?
Yes, check the pinion number + or - to set the shim pack. The shims for the pinion depth go under the cup so no need for a set up bearing. Just press it on the pinion and it won't need to come off again. The rotational torque is controlled by shims under the outer bearing. You can make a setup bearing for that one but they usually are not that tight so you can easily knock out the pinion to change shims. Refer to my video or shoot me a message if you have any more questions. Brian
check the markings on the pinion of the old and new and then adjust your original shim pack. starting with original shims should get you close but be sure to do a tooth pattern check to be sure of what is going on in there.
@@metalshaperJeep Hi Chad, I'm learning a los with tour videos, but I would like to Contact you vía email, yo así you a particular question about an M38 new engine that I have
Can you send me your email address where I can reach you for comments about the lube staff that you are selling, and about how yo do on the process of the first start of the new Jeep engine
@@josemariacasasayas8834 contact me directly at metalshaper@comcast.net I made a video of how to start a fresh rebuilt engine. Search for it and it will explain things for you.
I'm rebuilding/regearing/locking the rear 44 from my 68' Commando. As I'm sure you know, I believe it's known as a narrow-trac 44. My rebuild kit contains a very large washer which, on the wide track D30 I just rebuilt, is pressed between the pinion gear and inner pinion bearing. When I disassembled the 44, this was not installed. Does that sound normal, that is do I just not use it? Also, there is a black washer/shim looking part I'm not familiar with. Finally, my axle also didn't have inner axle seals, only outers.... again, sound off to you? Any help would be appreciated.
I figured it out, found a diagram... it doesn't show the large washer (inner oil slinger) the black shim or inner axle seals for this axle. Just wanted to follow up in case you got around to this question or someone else had a similar issue.
What about larger trucks? Do you work on their axles too? How do I contact you? I have a IH Loadstar front 4x4 axle I need the brakes and enclosed hubs rebuilt. I have most of the hard-to-find parts such as the hub felt, oil seal, and NOS locking hub to replace one that feels bad along with factory service manuals but I don't know that my health is good enough anymore to try to tackle such a project. The front pumpkin is the same as the common IH RA-30 axle and the hubs are like old style front DANA 70's but one size larger (parts are still available from DANA or IH Navistar except at three times the price of the parts when ordered direct from Dana). This axle was designed by NAPCO for IH and manufactured by Dana/Spicer and uses regular drum hydraulic brakes. The diff is open (no locker or limited slip etc) and I want to keep it that way and the locking hubs were manufactured exclusively by Warn for IH. I know this is an old video but how do I contact metalshaper or does anyone have any other recommendations? To the best of my knowledge only hubs and brakes need to be rebuilt along with replacing all seals and gaskets. The diff bearings seem fine and I'm sure nothing has ever been opened up.
Could use your advise on a gear pattern 1952 M38-CDN rear Dana 44 Pinion shims we’re 0.025” and put back the same. Pattern looks too deep. I have pictures I could send if you have an email address Backlash is 0.007” Thanks
There are good parts available all over the world...... for instance, very nice winch cable comes out of korea, there are a lot of good machine tools coming out of European countries, etc, etc,...... for the most part though the companies making willys and jeep parts put out horrible parts. overseas springs sag and often bend the other way after a week of driving time. Transmission parts from china, spain, etc... fail after a very short time. There are now sector shafts being made overseas that fail in a very short time. Imagine doing 50 mph in your jeep and suddenly becoming disconnected from your steering. Not just a bad part but a life threatening situation. I will not use parts like that for the simple reason I don't want to put my customers in a life or death situation. I know good parts from bad but a lot of people do not. BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!! Brian
