#basketball #thenbagoat #goatdebate #wiltchamberlain #wilt Wilt Chamberlain did not agree Michael Jordan was the GOAT and says Michael was not even better than other players.
Russell avg 15 points a game in his career, and had 6-8 HOF teammates every single year. That’s like KD’s Warriors squad, plus Booker, Paul George, and Embiid. Teams didn’t have balance back then before 1980s, matter of fact, 80% of the players played right handed. And, playoffs had one round less and there weren’t many teams.
@@halfshot253They were not a superteam. Those guys formed together and grew together. It's not like today when you enter free agency and go anywhere you want. But Michael is way more of a player than Russell or Wilt.
@Hinshu85 in the 1960s, realistically, MJ would have been a lesser version of Elgin baylor because Elgin was a creative basketball genius and while MJ brought to basketball wasn't creativity, MJ was stunning to watch but he copied the greats before him even copying and perfecting Wilts fadaway and Elgins moves.... The implication being as good as Elgin was and as good as MJ was he wasn't the player scoring and defensive wise as Wilt.... I don't care how fast an era was 'like' the 1960s when you average 50 plus and 23 rebounds and someone like Elgin cannot match you....thats an anomaly and shows just that MJ's a gifted basketball player and after Muhammad Ali a celebrity beyond compare, yet he didn't have Wilts gifts....
@@allistermcginlay6476 I’ll say it, Wilt was trash in the finals. He’s the reason why they lost so many of them, West had to drag them back in year after year. In Wilt’s 2 championships, he was only MVP in one of them. If anyone that is not in the top 10 of all time, it’s Wilt. I put KD and Dream over Wilt.
@@JC13406Doesn't matter. The fact is he won 11 CHAMPIONSHIPS, and if I'm not mistaken eight of them were consecutively. You can't hold him responsible for the NBA having fewer teams in the league. Even Kareem Abdul Jabbar said that if Oscar Robinson (THE BIG "O") had played against Jordan he would have embarrassed him. Michael Jordan was in my opinion the greatest player of HIS era, but he is not the G.O.A.T. People here will disagree and call me crazy (AND I DON'T CARE) but I know better.
@@user-qx3pw1dc3tno it wasn't if you saw him play, Russell always won against Wilt except for 67 in a semi segregated less athletic league. Wilt got stats like LeBron but didn't win but twice enough.
I am old enough to see Wilt choke to the Celtics with 3 other HOFers on his team. I saw him choke to the Celtics in Russell's last title win and in the famous Willis Reed. Both Russell and Wilt played in an era where the great big men won and the game was designed for them because of their height and athletic skills. However Jordan shattered that paradigm as a 6'6 two guard. I saw the infamous Kansas v. North Carolina college game that Wilt lost too. Michael was the closer. If you had one shot to win the game, you are not picking Wilt or Russell. Furthermore you can NEVER be the GOAT when you can't shoot free throws. Additionally the 3 point shot has neutralized the big man to a certain extent. Wilt always wanted to be the man and go after the young guys. I say young Kareem cook him. He would have had a problem defending Robinson, Dream, Duncan, Shaq, Ewing and prime Parish and Walton would have given him problems too. His argument bringing up Russell is a non starter because Russell had to beat him in order to win. Wilt was dominant but not a winner and not clutch.
@@drchrisheidelberg so wait wait had multiple hall of Fame guards who's job it is to shoot to win but he choked? 😂😂 Missed FTs ain't choking because big men have always had difficulty with FTs. It's a biological disadvantage. You choose Wilt because you want to get to the finals whether you have a good team or not. Why do basketball heads hate that players need help? Jordan could never lead a squad to a ring. He needed Pippen's down hill style to open the floor for him. Biological disadvantage. Both are incredible Wilt is just a freak of nature 😂😂 he's automatically the greatest to ever play.
@@drchrisheidelberg you realize Wilt Chamberlain put down his scoring and focused more on assists later in his career, especially after his injury. Why didnt you mention that Wilt only played 12 games in the 1970 season because of his major injury yet he still averaged 24/23/4 in the Finals? You also forgot to mention he got injured with 5 minutes remaining in game 7 of the 1969 Finals. He even wanted to return in the last 1-2 minutes but the stuрid bum ass coach kept him on the bench and the Celtics still won by just 2 points. Take your Gingko Biloba old man, because you are forgetting some important details :D
Also keep in mind Michael Jordan never referred to himself as the greatest of all time either. It was a title bestowed upon him by the public. Even though Michael Jordan is one of my favorite players of all time I still would have to give that title to Bill Russell. I'd also say that the same respect hasn't been given to him from the public either. People would still put a lot of other players ahead of Bill Russell forgetting the fact that not only did he win championships as a player, did so also as a player/ coach.
I give mj the edge because he competed against more teams and players. Bill Russell was only playing against 14 teams back then. I'm not knocking his greatness, but it was different levels of competition
This clip left the best part of the story out. When they were arguing at that table, Wilt said that they changed the rules to make it easier for Michael to play, but when Wilt played they changed the rules to make it harder for Wilt. Michael had no comeback.
Of course they changed them to make it easier for him to play, everybody else was playing JUST to destroy him lmfao, they really didn't have that focus on wilt
@Some_Dude_88 nonsense there were how many teams in the league back then? Granted he was tall and athletic at the time but give me a break. And I'm old.
Respect to Phil jackson, he has the reverse of Bill Russell with 2 rings as a player and 11 as a coach. But I doubt we'll ever see a player as prolific as Bill ever again
There were 8-9 teams in the league back then… It’s not possible to even compare championships back then to the 80s-current. There were 8 HOFers on those Boston teams that won 11 titles, the talent distribution was terrible because there was no FA back then.
@@omnione12 Using that same logic (in reverse), the NBA added several franchises when Jordan was winning his rings. If you want to argue that Bill played in an era with few teams, I can argue that Jordan played in an era of too many. See how that works?
@@michaelmaccrazy That makes no sense what so ever. Let me explain, If I played you one-on-one and lets put some measurables in there, you are 5'9" and I am 6'6". You are a good baller, but I am great, I play you every two week, no one else, I am the best money can buy, the team I rep has the latest and most invested in me vs you who are good but not part of the big money team level as me, I win every time, and lets say we are rewarded for wins, so I have 26 championship trophies Now, the next year they add 5 more players of various skills and sizes, people I never played before, what are the chances of me winning another 26 championship with 5 times the competition, seeing how I know you and your level because I played 26 time, Now I only play you twice, do I have the same advantage of dominance?
@@omnione12 You owe me some brain cells. You went off the rails on that. The point went over your head which isnt surprising considering that you attempting to diminish a guy's championships. You are the type of dude who props up championships only when it's convenient to you. But a guy like Russell will never be convenient to you. It's not Russell's fault there were 12 teams. In case you still haven't figured it out, fewer teams mean fewer roster spots. Therefore, each player definitely had to be on their team by merit because there were only 150 or so of those roster spots to go around. It must suck to suck.
@@eyeamgod2734 No. Phil Jackson didn't pull Kobe out for the whole 4th qtr you liar. Kobe subbed out in the last 2 min you casual Kobe stan. He played like 11 min of the 4th qtr. Stop lying for Kobe. Kobe never got close to Wilt's 100.
@victorpulgar2396 And all the championships that Jordan won was because of Scottie and Rodman or Kukoc or Grant, etc. I never compare the best player by championships. It's ridiculous because its a team sport.
@@victorpulgar2396how can you say that? Russell was a 5x MVP! If that’s not the best player then what is? Why do you think the award was named after him?
@choiceismine because that's his argument? People were saying he can't be considered the best because he only has 2 rings compared to Michaels then 4. Well, by using their own logic against them, if Michael having more rings is what was separating them, then Bill Russell should be considered better than them both because he won 11 rings.
That statement hit different cuz of how true it is. Yet the debate is arguably needed. I never watched Wilt play so I can’t say who’s better as I grew up watching MJ.
@@BluWaves I watched em both and Bill, MJ is #1, Wilt never EVER played the killers Mike played nor did Bill, Shaq would push them around like stick men, and Bird? cmon haha
@@KINGAMIIAMKINGSooooo what are you saying? Championships don't mean anything? Well thx for explaining why LEBRON is actually The Goat, because once you get past the bogus titles talking point, Lebron is clearly the best ever 😂
@@gregorystanley4870Impressive to MJ, Pippen and Bulls, but Russell and the Celtics won 11 chips. It's not even close and Wilt is not wrong at all. We all have the natural behavior to think the new is better, in the past things were easier...
That's when they make it ALL ABOUT RINGS..but looking at all around numbers, competition, era...there is no damn way Bill is #1.. that's why the conversation will never go anywhere
Exactly. I think the logic is that will’s individual accomplishments put him in the conversation, but his limited team success takes him out of the number one slot. His rebuttal is that Bill Russell’s team success is unmatched so he should be the greatest player ever. The counter is he doesn’t have the individual success as MJ or Wilt. So The argument as MJ as the GOAT still holds; unless you want to combine Wilt’s individual dominance with Bill’s team success as your rebuttal. But then you get MJ. lol.
@@truthbtold8697bruh what are you talking about?? He was player coach twice for those chips! LMAO how is he not in convo??? Think before you speak. It's a straw man argument not sound logic. Bill Russel always played the BIGGER person as a civil rights icon leading in integration. So he was always consoling Wilt's ego and supporting any great player in the league after him
And Wilt never said what the rules were. But you folks run with the idea that trying to stop players from injuring other players is somehow only beneficial to Jordan. Do you know how dumb you AND Wilt sounded?
And with you believing one of Wilt's many tall tales, do you know Jordan's scoring average went down after the "rules to help him" were implemented? The evidence be right in front of y'all and y'all will just ignore it cuz of your emotions...😂
@@mpound97 Jordan got older and Phil wanted him to share the ball and trust his teammates more. But you do your homework on the rule changes for Jordan and to stop Wilt. Wilt was correct. Got nothing to do with emotions this is Wilts statement not mine.
Lmfao it’s not just about the rings the bulls are the only team that 3 peated twice Michael Jordan highlights way better than Bill Russell’s stiff rebounding. His shoes are also legendary. Bill Russell doesn’t even have a pair of shoes.😂😂😂😂Foh🤡
That sounds true to me because every interview about the GOAT debate, MJ doesn't want to get into instead saying he never played against Wilt or Russell or Jerry West. For MJ, he is most proud of his 72-10 Bulls team. I agree. The GOAT debate cheapens the game. For example, Larry Bird's first 5 years in the league was truly amazing. Oh how about how dominate Moses Malone was during his prime? We just miss it all. Or Kareem during the 70's? He flat out owned everyone.
You don’t have to use titles as a measuring stick for Jordan’s greatness. People do it more than they have too. The eye test is first. The stats and other accolades “ offensively and defensively back it all up.
@@frankrizzo5155true those conversations are useless if you ask me because the times are all different Bill Micheal Lebron or Kobe (R.i.P)except maybe lebron and Kobe(R.i.P) it’s all different times and challenges
Bill Russell had 11 championships!!!!!!!!!!! The Celtics won championships in 57 and 59 you know why they didn't win in 58 because Bill Russell was out with an injury that should tell you that he was a big share of those championships and that they couldn't do it without him. Also his last two championships he was the coach and a player! I don't know all of them be a history but I want to think he's probably the only one to do that😊 let's just all agree that there's several goats on the mountain😂
@michaelcampbell860 more teams more watered down talent, 8 team NBA and 6 team NHL was like only 100 players total in each of those leagues at the time!
@@michaelcampbell860less teams means more talent genius smh. Statistically its impossible for more teams to not lead to bums playing pro. Less teams less roster spots means only best alive make these teams. No bums allowed
Wilt does not get enough love for being one of the greatest of all time. Maybe because people often saw him as goliah and nobody sympathizes with Goliath. He was an amazing talker. In modern times with all the media exposure he would have been even more famous
Yes but he went to a superteam, and still didnt win.His inability to hit free throws cost his team wins.And i dont mean about one or 2 or 3 free throws.I mean under 40% for a series.Jerry west was the one who went against superteam all the time and he was the one who played as a superteam to win but injuries and not enough help cost him more championships.Jerry West is the best from that era.
@@redoinefaid8yes it does when guys can't do what Wilt could do on the court including today players...but Jordan and Wilt respected each other...their in each other top 3
Mike is on another level of greatness no kid from late 80s to early 90s to now is going mention bill Russell or wilt chamberlains name once jordan comes threw the door 🚪 it’s just a fact 💯
The rest of the story: Wilt and Jordan got into it a little. Wilt reminded Jordan of recent rule changes which benefited Jordan. Wilt said something to the effect of “just remember they changed the rules to make it easier on you but they changed the rules to make it harder on me.” Wilt got up and walked away. I can’t say it changed Jordan’s mind entirely but it seemed to give him a respect for Wilt that he didn’t have before.
Sounds like an excuse. He 7 ft just dunking after missing free throws, like they had to change the rules, he wasn’t skilled just physically bigger than most.
I think DJ is the greatest of all because he actually changed the game of basketball and made it exciting 🔥and yes I watch him, wilt, and Russel play 🔥
@@thekingofshine6900 if you are referring to Dr J as DJ, then I can somewhat agree. The Doc saved professional basketball according to many. He brought in new fans but Jordan did the same later as far as bringing in new fans. To me Wilt was probably the all time greatest athlete to walk the planet, however he worried too much about his critics which kept him from focusing on beating Russel and the Celtics. That divided focus had him score 100 points in a game and lead the league in assists as a center but fail to win the championship. By the way, as a kid I had the iconic Dr J poster in the white Sixers uniform, number 6, full Afro, sailing through the air with the ball in hand, his arm raised to slam dunk it. Wish I still had that poster.
Bill Russell was a great team player, playing with Hall of Famers.Wilt revolutionized basketball.They changed rules to stop him.Chamberlain was not liked by refs or the league He was too good.Russell was a perfect match for the Celtics.He was a defensive specialist.Chamberlain was a defensive great who score could 50 points and grab 25 rebounds at will.
The hall of famers came from his era mostly from every team. Bill didn't have a hof player at every position. And some of them are in just because of the amount of championships. Check their numbers and you'll be like how did he get in.
@jamesgish9202 The point he was making was Championships don’t make you the Goat. Championships are a team accomplishment. If you wanna make an argument for an individual player as the Goat then you have to look at individual stats. And statistically speaking, Wilt is The Goat hands down! 💯💯💯
It was a 11 teams and two playoff rounds and they played nothing but sorry AZZ white Boyz that era was easy and how many finals MVP Russell got I will wait foh MJ is the goat
@@Godson0771a goat stop other great players from getting rings and create styles to add to the game that these great players used till this day is what makes MJ the goat period
@@s0Lstar18 whats your point? Less teams means what exactly? Less competition? No. It means there were fewer spots for players. So the players on those teams had to be at a higher level to get a spot. It’s a statistical reality that if you expand the league, it becomes watered down. That’s the unequivocal reality of basic statistics. Its a function of having to accept lower caliber players to fill out the roster when you expand the number of teams. Follow? If you pick the best 100 players to fill out a 10 man roster, what happens to the quality of player when you now have to take the top 300 players to fill 30 teams? You think a guy like Steve Kerr or Paxson makes it on any one of those teams when Russell played? No chance. Watering down the league with more players doesn’t mean it’s more competitive, it just means you have a lot of bad teams and a lot of players that would’ve never made the league in the days of Russell and Wilt.
@@s0Lstar18beyond that, it was more a comment on the ever changing metrics to decide the goat. 6 championships is why Jordan gets the nod over Wilt. But those same people will tell you 11 championships doesn’t mean Russell is better than Jordan. Personally I don’t think championships is the end all be all. Wilt had to play against one of the best teams in history that dominated during his tenure. What if Jordan had to play against the Lakers or Celts at their peak? Or even the Rockets during Hakeem’s peak? Guarantee you he doesn’t get 6 rings. So championships has a lot to do with luck and timing. Wilt gets knocked for the sole reason of having to play during the reign of the most dominant team in NBA history. Jordan came in at a time when there were good solid teams. But the juggernauts of the Lakers and Celtics had past. So he found a pocket of time where 3 peats were possible. No possible way the Bulls are even repeating if they played in the era of the best Lakers and Celts teams. Those guys were winners. And Jordan never got over on Bird. So championships are relevant, but they also require a lot of context. What’s more impressive, beating the Phoenix suns for a title or a prime Laker or Celtic team? That’s the easiest question you’ll hear all year.
@@bry8636 Man teams didn’t even have black players on their rosters 😂 the pace and possessions were at their highest and Bill Russell played on a team with the most HOFS and shot 45% and averaged 18ppg as a Center. Was a he a great and impactful player in his era? Yes, but stop playing dumb the merger hadn’t even taken place, with more teams and talent dispersed, there’s more parody making it HARDER to win versus when there’s only two teams with all of the talent. Bird’s Celtics only won 3 in the modern era and has only won one since, because it’s harder to win with more teams. Why do you think there’s only been 2 teams to 3-peat since Russell’s Celtics? There’s only a few teams with multiple chips in the modern era. 80% of the Celtics chips come before the modern era, the Lakers Bulls and Warriors have more chips than the Celtics in the modern era. Wilt’s numbers dip in the playoffs and finals. And for all the stat stuffing he did he’s 2-4. And the only rule that was instituted in the Jordan era was the flagrant rule which has helped keep superstars safer and MJ still played in a physical era with the rule implemented. Wilt, like you, are full of 🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
@@bry8636 It’s not just the 6 chips, he’s has more 3-peats and repeats than Wilt, more scoring titles and the higher PER and PPG in the regular season, playoffs and finals. If they had finals MVPs he’d have more because he was the better more impactful player in the finals. So if the accolades and analytics all point to that then your opinion and hypotheticals mean jack shit. As a matter of fact, inserting a hypothetical of what if MJ played _____ is an L, because just like you can say he would’ve lost, I can say he would’ve won, you might think he doesn’t beat those Rockets (the Knicks he used spank took them to 7 games and would’ve won if not for Starks choking.) but there’s a BIG possibility he does win based on what he’s done in the finals. Your hypotheticals don’t go anywhere because we’ll never know. But determining what he did in his era compared to Wilt plainly says MJ was the better/greater player. 🥱
Jordan never let down the hype, he only upheld it. Sneakers commercials, Wheaties boxes etc. never affected his game. Most celebrities getting endorsements outside of their craft drop the ball on their performance. Jordan only got better. Jordan earned the hype
@RickyMoss not until after LeBron said it about himself. That's when he came out & said he was the Goat. I never compare those 2 bc I feel like they were both gr8 in their era's. I just appreciate them both
@@incogneto2834 11 vs. 6 make it make sense! So by your accord Brady is not better, that Terry Bradshaw, or Joe Montana! Because they were undefeated, however, Brady won 7 Super Bowls and Brady also went to 9 total! Some how sir respectfully, I disagree!! God bless you! 7 is better than 4! Just like 11 is better than 6! Oh and try this on for size! Bill always made the playoffs! Always! From day one! He coached and played in two championships! He was the head coach! Bill only played in 13 years! 11 out of the 13 he win championships, with two different set of players! All of which he made better. But like I said before he does not get his proper respect! Because his arch nemesis was Wilt Chamberlain! And if you think Wilt was not the most gifted player to ever step on a court! Then well please try and find as much film as you can and start with Wilt Chamberlain! Who was also a track star!!! Running a 4.4 at 7’1” my goodness!!! And Red, and Russell devised a way to get around the unbearable! That what makes a goat! Same with Tom Brady! That’s what goats do! Jordan is a goat too! He devised a way to beat Ewing!
@user-ky8nd2rz4f like J.J. Reddick wouldn’t even make one of the old school squads. And those men had to work second jobs. Because one the NBA was seasonal, and they did not pay those men like the men get paid today to play basketball! Put some respect on the plumbers and mechanics! It is an honest days work! Further I respect any man that works for a living. Those men had love for the game! And that I respect!
@@victorpulgar2396No he wasn’t the best offensive player on his team, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t the best player. The best player is the player who has the most impact . Which was Russell on Those Celtics for majority of their run.
Wilt Chamberlain had the single greatest game in NBA History period. The only player to ever record a Quintuple Double 52 pts 32Rbds 24 Blks 14asts 11 stls . This man also has the only 100pt game in NBA History a true record machine.
@@Bubby16dunking was no allowed which means that skills had to be attached. wilt was only one player and people think one great player should have championships like basketball isnt a team sport. a lot of wilt's PERSONAL records will never be broken. stop the hate campaign.
With all due respect to Wilt and Bill, the talent level against them was nowhere near as what it was when MJ played. They were the OG’s in the game but MJ is the 🐐
I'm a Bulls fan, and you must admit, they had a solid team. Everyone contributed. Without the collective, honestly Jordan wouldn't have gotten 6...Pippen and the others were a great addition to the franchise...
When you pick up a basketball and play you are borrowing Wilt and Russell's game for a minute. They walked so Kareem, Magic, Bird and Jordan could run. There would not still be an NBA without them.
I never saw Wilt play. I’ve read some of his records and some grainy videos on YT. I really wish the sports media was more objective and fair. Wilt should be mentioned far more than he is.
Wilt is the only player in NBA history that they changed rules so he wouldn’t score as much… Wilt will never be repeated nor replicated ever again… He had over 100 records and still holds over 50 records solo to this day… talk about a non human beast…🙏🏻👍🏽
@@d.supreme8592 - Wilt played against: Bill Russell Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Willis Reed Artis Gilmore Elmore Smith Nate Thurmond Bob McAdoo Walt Bellamy Bob Lanier Wes Unseld Elvin Hayes And these are just some of the centers and power forwards. Think of the other great players like Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, etc. It is a myth Wilt played vs nobodies. If you don't recognize most or all the names on my list you are simply ignorant of the history of the NBA.
And they change the rule in favor of jordan but still he cant beat larry legend...if your goat is jordan what makes larry bird that always beating him..prime jordan and injured larry bird...jordan lose..its not about score and flashy dunk its all about how u contribute to win...
