A comparison of the two champion bolt action center fire rifles of the US firearms industry - with a little history; the Winchester Model 54 and Remington Model 30. www.paypal.com...
I just bought my first Model 70, in a 7mm caliber. Shot my first elk with it -- 175 grain bullet, 220 yards. He dropped after 3 steps. I will be 80 yrs old in three weeks. Thanks for confirming my choice of rifles with your video.
Outstanding to see you're still firing a rifle. Much less hunting. I'm 30 and I hope to still be able to do what I love when I am your age, god willing I live that long
All 3 brands are excellent, but the 700 Remington has an almost silent safety. This may sound trivial until you have a target very close to you. You also mentioned the Rem 721's, and 722's. I think they are sleepers and may be the collectibles of the future. They still have good value. The 725's are already almost untouchable.
Hi Mike - 100% - and I also see the value of 721's and 722's going up. Their clean lines and simplicity are desired. I noticed the early Remington 870s with no pressed checkering and no checkering at all keep going up.
Back in the early 1980's twice I saw brand new Remington 700s go off without the trigger being pulled. One was a lady who was next to me at the range. She had put in a round and as she closed the bolt the rifle fired. I was looking right at her when it happened. The rifle was just purchased and had a scope mounted and bore sighted. The second was a few weeks later. A Yong man had adjusted a front bag. The moment he pushed off the safety, the rifle fired. Remington spent years denying they had a problem until they lost a class action lawsuit. I have owned 3 model 70s over the years. Never heard the safety make any noise. Always respected the model 70 safety for completely capturing the firing pin verses just blocking the trigger from moving. Your mileage may vary...
USOG, Sir I have thoroughly enjoyed watching this video. These are the rifles I study the most. I love them. Its so nice to see them all together. I have always felt that the Model 70, and the 1903 Springfield were too similar to just be a coincidence. I am a huge fan of these rifles, and of Your excellent Channel. I hope You and Your Family have a Merry Christmas.
USOG Yesterday evening I made a short video with an old Mossberg 42B that a friend gave Me for Christmas that He picked up at a gun show. I think You will find this rifle intresting, as some unknown previous owner did some very creative art work with the stock. I recall that in one of Your previous videos that You said that You enjoy looking at firearms like this.
Awesome video. I have a model 70 ultimate shadow. Are you familiar with it? I read that it has the pre 64 action. It is definitely a CF action. Your vids are very informative. Thanks so much for sharing
Hello, I,m Bob, I have a 1943 model 70 USMC Sniper Rifle, my Dad bought it for me around 1963, put in the closet and that is where it lived until 1995, Let me tell you the exact details of the rifle, I fired it at the range 100 yrds, 6 inc. group at best. Along the stock no padding on butt plate, the rear sight, redfield flip up peep, with the hooded front sight, also atop of your peep was a Weaver K 4 Scope,Now you could use either iron sights or scope, but there was little room between both, you had two peeps, short distance, and I guess 200yrds (I guess). Now everything is the same as your model 54 except this is ( BIG) you have a screw forward the trigger, one after the recoil lug, then there was this big metal lump on the barrel that fit may be 2inch. before the end of the stock, they call it a (Harmonic Balance) Needless to say I had problems, barrel almost smooth, trigger would stick, bolt would fire when you locked it, stock was warped, Ok you get the picture, now if it were you, would you rebuild it, or leave it nothing but a dust collector?
My pick is the 700, both are fine rifles but out of the 60-70 of both I've owned the Remington shot better, I don't keep a gun if it won't shoot less than a moa, the Remingtons of 1980 or older,
Too bad Current Mod 70s are not USA made. All Portugal now I believe, still be nice to have one though. I lean towards the Mod 70s over the Rem 700s. Didnt always, but more I learned searched for info, Rem 700s seemed over rated. Older ones seemed better in looks and quality. New Rems look like junky to me. Even their 870 shotguns seem crappy. Id take a Moss 500 over one of those too. Older Wingmasters are ok though. I think id take one of them if deal was right.
The Outdoorsman, yes, it is regrettable that the Model 70 is no longer U.S. made, but if any foreign company had to own the Winchester and Browning names (FN also owns the rights to the "Browning" brand-name), it is fortunate that Fabrique National of Belgium is that company. John Browning worked closely with Winchester for many years but in the early part of the 1900s, reached an impasse with them over payment for his new Auto-5 shotgun, Browning approached Fabrique National of Herstal, Belgium, and began a fruitful commercial relationship which lasted until Browning's death in 1926 (he was actually visiting FN at the time of his fatal heart attack). Under FN's inspired leadership - they are one of the most-respected firearms manufacturers in the world - Winchester and Browning have enjoyed a market renaissance. I have worked in the retail FA industry, and the new Winchester M70s are superb firearms. The level of workmanship is extremely high, and they shoot as good as they look and feel. I never had an unhappy customer with one, and I sold a lot of them. Remington's 700 line has been very well-made at times in the past, but Remington's recent products have been sub-standard in quality. You have probably heard of the lawsuit regarding their triggers, too. Given the consistently high quality of Winchester, Browning, Savage, Ruger, Sako, Tikka, CZ and Kimber these days, to name a few - there's really no reason to buy a new Remington 700. Sad to say but true, IMHO....
With ALL due respect, when I tune in, it isn't because I need the complete history of every firearm you have there. Again, ALL due respect for you and the extensive experience you have gleaned from years of firearm study. I tune in specifically for information on the firearms described at the outset. Not necessarily the history of every rifle in it's evolution up to the latest model. It just eats up too much time, and covers too much ground. There are sometimes three or four complete rifle histories when only one is needed. I understand the need to explain things in detail. That's what makes you among the best. But, I'm usually flustered and wanting to move along long before you reach the subject matter that directly relates to the firearm(s) that were depicted in the intro. Again, not trying to be mean....just leaning toward specified brevity. (As I rattle endlessly on).
Model 70. The Rifleman's rifle. I was proud to have worked for Winchester in my youth. Mainly because of that rifle and the Model 1894. But mainly the Model 70. Thanks for this video.
@@McDanielRanch - The Model 770 was a budget version of the push-feed Model 70, later called the Model 70A. No hinged floorplate, no ebony fore-end tip, and plain walnut stock - similar to the Remington 700 ADL. The Model 670 even more basic. Matte finish, polished (not jeweled) bolt with non-knurled bolt knob, and hardwood stock with impressed checkering. Sears' Ted Williams Model 53 rifles were essentially 770s.
I have grown to love all of the old bolt actions military rifles both because of their designs and history- we are very lucky that the Mauser brothers came along. You are producing very good videos please keep it up-good job Thank you.
You could not be anymore right then you are ! My grandfather hunted with a 1942 pre war model 70, my father with a pre-64 and myself with current production model 70.... but I do have alot of love for the older 700's, pre-2000ish and especially the Sako 75, along with too many others to list
I gave my oldest grandson my pre-64 M-70 in .243. My dad dad bought it from the feed store owner circa 1958-59 as I recall. It’s accounted for a lot of whitetails, muleys and antelope over the years.
People were actually MORE intelligent back then, hard as that may be to believe. They were far more objective, discerning, and as hardship was never very far from their doors, they had a huge eagerness to improve their World. You can hear it in their diction and vocabulary which was far superior to the average English speaker of today. People have been dumbed down. This is why in certain areas where scrutiny and innovation is more important than simply technological edge, a lot of older stuff REALLY was better made.
Very good and would agree, the mod. 70 is manufactured in a different world entirely, different values and reflected in the workmanship. Thank you, cheers.
I always thought the Winchester 70 was far superior to the Remington 700. However the older BDLs and ADLs were nice guns. Having said that I suppose I have to say the later Remington's were the product of bean counters and people that were more interested in making a large profit than producing quality rifles. Hence their state today.
@@UnitedStatesOfGuns I agree. I've owned 3 M700s, 1 used & 2 new. One shot well, but had problems. The other 2 had problems & didn't shoot either. I finally wised up & didn't buy any more. I know a few experienced riflemen who won't have one. My opinion is the M70 is an excellent rifle while the M700 is junk.
Thanks for the video. The first rifle I bought was in 1972 at a local gun store in Ann Arbor during my college days. It was a pre-war Model 70 Winchester in 30-06 (barrel dated 1936) and I got it for the princely sum of $150. It was drilled for a side scope mount and I had the local gunsmith attach a Griffin and Howe quick detachable scope mount to the receiver. It'll group ~1.5 moa on a good day. I'm never letting that gem go. I hope that one of my sons will keep it when I pass on.
Hi Tony - High value rifle you have there - as you know. Great purchase and the G&H side mount is a classic - the only side mount I know of that does not decrease the value of the rifle. I'm sure your sons will appreciate that great rifle - likely already do - one of the few things worth owning. Also, hunters only leave the trails here to move to trails elsewhere, to be joined in time by family and friends IMHO Thanks for the note.
I've owned 2 push feed Winchesters, a model 670 in .243 and a model 70 in 30.06. Not as desirable as a controlled feed model 70, but they were both good rifles and accurate. The 670 was a bargain, and I've often wished I hadn't sold mine.
I just zeroed an old model 70 for my uncle Larry.......he met a guy at the store, they got to talking and he got it for 700 dollars with 10 boxes of 30-06 and an old BSA scope and mounts. The old horse was on paper at 50 yards only 3 inches off center, and I shot a 1 inch 5 shot group resting on a shaky old camera tripod. It was in GREAT shape and man it was so sweet shooting, soft and accurate. With Hornady 150 grain soft point, mounting an old scope in rusty old rings, and it ate out the bulls eye the first time I shot it. I've been smitten ever since.......I'm a semi-auto guy who prefers the 7.62x51/308 - AR-10, but a nice Model 70 is IN MY FUTURE. It was just so nice......what a great old gun.
That's a gem. It's how the guns work that matters. Pretty is nice but secondary. I hope younger shooters realize they can be in the field and proudly so with guns such as yours. It's the doing that counts. Thanks for the great post. All the best.
Winchester is hitting it out of the park with their new rifles. They seem to be capitalizing on Remington's "mis-fortunes" as of late. BUT- I have a 1967 700 BDL that is just butter. Such a great rifle. The OLD Remingtons were really nice. I can't pick a favorite. I like admiring and fondling my model 70 lol, but that old Remington just shoots so well.
I went looking for a pre 64 Winchester yesterday at the Texas Gun Show. I found 1 model 70, but it was 2002 dated I think. Still a beautiful rifle. Theres just something appealing to 40 years of linseed oil hand rubbed into the walnut. I have a nickel steal, 1894 Win. 30WCF, made in 1907, that still shoots sub MOA. So That 54 is on my radar now. :)
I agree with you that the M70 Alaskan is an absolutely superlative rifle. Mine is in 300 WM as well !! I think that once you're introduced to the pre-64 M70s and the new CRF ones, there is no turning back.
Thank you for a well-done presentation. I have read great things about Sako and Tikka, from a variety of reputable sources. The brand is now owned by Beretta - but Sako has been making fine hunting rifles for a very long time. Their older designs are particularly prized. They do not surpass the best Winchesters, but are supposed to be comparable to them. CZ, the Czech firm, also makes an excellent rifle - and they offer tremendous value for the money spent.
Most bolt action rifles can be sub moa accurate and reliable. I have rifles made by most popular companies, especially savage, but...There is no rifle ever made that's better than the winchester model 70 pre 64, or the new model 70's made by FN. The huge recoil lug that's actually part of the receiver, the control round feed, and the reliable 3 position safety, are second to none. Of course, that's just my opinion.
Thank you for a very informative video. Thank you also for not feeling the need to sport facial hair, wear camo, a sidearm, and a tactical folder when doing gun reviews.
USOG You remarked that you're surprised that the other modern bolt actions sell as well as they do. I looked through your videos and I don't see a review of the Browning X-bolt or the Ruger M77 Hawkeye. I would like to see reviews of these rifles. I'm curious about your opinions of both of these.
It would be good to see a review of the Savage 110, which recently became the longest continuously-produced American mass-produced bolt-action rifle, passing both Winchester and Remington. The 110 was designed in 1958 and patented in 1963.
My mom bought me my first 700 ADL in 30.06 52 years ago. Killed my first deer with it, and many many animals from MT, AK, Canada, CO, FLA, moose elk, antelope... does the job every time. I've had many other rifles but this is my go to and have sold most of the others. Great rifle and .5 MOA loading 165 gr speer boat tails with IMR 4350 powder. Good review. I also once owned a Model 70 300 win mag.. Another great rifle/ tack driver.
Thanks very much for the video. I'm in search for a pre 64 model 70 Target and hearing about the pre 64, pre war and post 64 is really helpful and interesting.
Thank you! I suppose one could make the assumption that this presentation on the Winchester Model 70 and Remington Model 700 with their predecessors represents the foundations of modern bolt action rifles. This is a comprehensive and balanced treatment of both classic rifles.
My 1st bolt rifle was a model 700adl in rems big 7mm magnum.an excellent rifle and cartridge.. currently a 70 in 3006 a better rifle and cartridge.thanks for posting such great informative videos.you really know your business
I went with the model 70 (FN made) for many of the reasons you spoke of. I handled and shot model 700 series rifles and they did not have the fit and finish of the M 70. That said, I have handled a few older model 700 classics and they are beautiful. Remington did up the the quality on those and they are well worth the extra money. I also have to say that for the most part, I have friends who have cheaper versions of the model 700 series and they function well as a hunting rifle. So it is really about personal choice and budget. Thank you for this great video, I think the most important thing is that what ever gun you have, enjoy it, practice lots and get out into the great outdoors with it.
You should write the book, I took note on the barrel made with nickel steel, it looks great for it's age. That is a subject that deserves more attention. Thanks so much!
Great videos! I recently found your channel and am very impressed with your knowledge and style. As soon as I finish this post, I will be hitting the subscribe button. I must say that most of my life I've been a Remington and Ruger fan. My safes contain multiples of 742, 760, 552, 572 and, of course, 700's along with tang safety Ruger M77 Rl and Rsi's. I'd never owned a Winchester, until about five years ago. I bought two FN M70 Featherweights, one a 7mm08 and one a 257 Rob, built in South Carolina. The build quality and workmanship on these two have unexpectedly made them the favorites in my collection. I could never praise them adequately or enough. In fact, the 7mm08 has replaced "Ole Reliable", the 742 my dad gave to me on my fifteenth Christmas (I'm 62), as my go to deer gun. I've had many people, more knowledgeable than me, comment that the South Carolina M70's are as good or maybe better than even their pre'64's.
I love your videos. I learned some things here. I have a module 70 and 2 700’s. I’ve shot lots of whitetails with them. They are both great rifles!! Thanks!!!
Hi Jamie! I'm so glad! Well done on buying the Model 70 and the 2 700s and congratulations on the hunting success. My freezer is out of venison and it is pretty bleak buying the feedlot meat. Nothing quite like venison. All the best.
I can remember the day I brought home the Model 70 in .300 Win Mag. I felt as if I had bought the Corvette of rifles! Tons of power, beautiful, and slick as any rifle anywhere! Well, maybe not as slick as my NOS Canadian .303 Enfield!
I always thought a Remington to be the more refined rifle! In accuracy, fit and function! Just better put together overall!! The rifling in Remington 700 are better for long range shots!
Its a very merry Christmas here. Our political climate has changed and we are actually permitted to have a Christmas. Thank you, great video, great guns and great information!
I’m getting to like and enjoy tour channel more and more. This is an excellent presentation. A model 70 and a 1903 are two rifles I really miss from my collection. Greetings from Malta 🇲🇹❤️
Excellent presentation on the history of these rifles. I will be getting the model 70. I love the recoil lugs on the 70's, they just seem so solid and will absorb recoil more efficiently. Thanks again and I look forward to your other videos.
The 700 is a very strong action and performs well. That said the model 54 through the final evolution of the model 70 are my favorite rifles. My only gripe is Winchester’s departure from the near perfect trigger assembly of the model 70. That was a mistake in my view. I am amazed to this day how we can put together so many moving and fixed parts, and obtain such repeatable accuracy. The modern rifle action I have a high opinion of is CZ’s 550 safari action. If I build another hot rod, I will use that action.
I'm guessing, but I believe Winchester paid attention to what was happening with Remington lawsuit and changed the trigger for liability reasons, as it's harder to modify now.
As you said ,"the 700 has proven itself". The haters are in denial. Sure it's a much simpler design but as a long range accuracy buff and very experienced hand loader I can tell you, less moving parts translates to better accuracy.
Yeah I'm surprised at the so called hate for the most successful bolt action rifle ever made that has a reputation for excellent accuracy. They intentionally wanted the 700 to be more affordable. I love both my 1967 700 and brand new model 70. The fit and finish on the 70 is nicer, but something about my old 700, it just "fits" and damn does it shoot.
@@kenworthNH Amen to that. It's also very profound that many are piling on Remington when they're down . I didn't see that when Winchester was down and out. It's crazy that this day and age when gun ownership is under tremendous attack, that many would want Remington to fail.
I do not have a model 70 yet but I do have a 700 and is the only rifle I own that is more accurate then I am ..mine was made in 1967 and I was able to get it in unfired condition (which is great for me but sad for the guy who owned it before me ...was a farmer in OK who bought it to go elk hunting in alaska back in the 60s and it sat in his safe ...he never got to go elk hunting)
Great analysis. I always loved the model 70's and owned several. Maybe just my luck but I could never get any of them to shoot well. For that reason I went to the 700 Remington. Never had a bad one. They all drive tacks!
The new Winchesters are as good as they ever were. Browning also, EXCEPT Browning T Bolts are so SLOW in production, WHY is FN Herstal MOSTLY doing weapons of War with the Ukraine/Russia battles.?? getting a couple of thousand T Bolts should be STANDARD production. I have fully paid for two including scopes and rings, etc., and will not get them THIS year at all. At MY AGE this is a rip off. I won't buy ANOTHER Browning in my lifetime!
I wanted a 70 30/06 in African game for the longer barrel found one once but price was extremely high so could not buy it bought a 1963 model 700 new in box, exalant rifel
Like all the vids first off. I just inherited a Winchester model 70. Says 300 magnum 82*** id # cant find much info. My grandfather got in when he was in service. All i see is people with 300 win mag or other calibers. Rifle has only 5 shots threw it. Couple to sight in & a deer. Then he put it away never shot again. Among others i got.
I have have a British 303 04 250 yd dednutz tack shooter crossers tack shooter it's a Canadian and all matching Parts all original how much would you offer me
My first rifle at age 6 was a first model 70 in 375 h&h from loads guns London for 5000 usd with some reload gear and a 20000 zeiss scope with eagle montage mounts but dad sold it to buy his 275 usd second model 70 in 270 winchester cheap skate basturd.
IMO 700's were higher quality than the m70's late 60's thru 80's.....40x, xp-100, BDL's They were also the only factory action to be used in BR competition in any quantity. Fast lock time, 2 oz 3 lever trigger design, actions easy to blueprint / sleeve I like the Vanguard / Howa for the best of both designs in a hunting rifle. 70 receiver, 700 bolt Nice forged flat bottom receiver, forged 1 pc 2 lug bolt / handle, Sako extractor Pre 64 Winchester's were king of the hill in quality....no question even to this day.
Model 700 Remington is the chinseest bolt action on the market! Remington is all about building firearms on the cheap. The tiny little fingernail extractor is a cruel joke, but is so cheap Remington won't change it to at least an M16 style extractor. The trigger assembly is so cheap they won't change it to a separate bolt shroud safety that blocks the firing pin like a Winchester model 70. The braised on bolt handle is cheaper to make than a one piece forged bolt, so that's the way they make it. Before I new the difference in bolt action rifles I owned several. After having 2 Remington 700's fail to extract a fired shell "which easily popped out with a cleaning rod" and an accidental discharge while slamming the bolt closed on the last one, I got rid of all my Remington 700's many years ago and would never buy another! No wonder they're going bankrupt. I just hope they don't ruin Marlin and Dakota arms!
Back in 83, I wanted to get rid of my 7mm magnum and get a 30-06. The 7mm was just a bit much for whitetail deer (IMO) I went to a firearms dealer and they had 3 different bolt action 30-06's. A Weatherby Vanguard, Remington 700, and a Wenchester Model 70 in a featherweight. All fine rifles, I am sure. Also, up until that day, every rifle I had previously purchased were all Remingtons. The forearm of the Vanguard was just too thick for my liking. The Remington felt great, but when I threw it up to take aim, the sights were not quite in alignment to me. The Winchester felt great. The sight alignment was perfect without moving my head at all, and the lighter weight was also nice. I took the cellophane wrap off a pack of cigarettes and wrapped it around the barrel and slid it down. On the Remington, it would not slide all the way down to the receiver like it did on the Winchester's free floating barrel. I bought the Winchester and still using it today. Very accurate and dependable.
Great choice, great rifle. The Model 70 - new or pre-64, remains a superb rifle - and that includes the push feed models. I have an XTR that is as accurate as any rifle I own - it has iron sights - and it handles like a dream; just as your '06. Thanks for writing.
I have a model 70 sporter controlled round feed(claw) and a rem 700 bdl. I prefer the model 70 over the 700 any day. My dads 1968 push feed model 70 is comparable to the 700 but I like the model 70s trigger and 3 stage safety better Ps the claw extractor is quieter to feed a round for guys that hunt out west and don’t (and shouldn’t) keep a round cocked and locked than a push feed
Head spaces the distance between the bolt face and the index point of the cartridge and that's usually the shoulder of the cartridge. Except on straight wall cartridges where it's frequently the case mouth or belted Magnums which the index is the front of the belt. I don't know where you got the idea it's between the bolt face and the back of the cartridge?. And the reason Remington had a problem was they had internal documents where they knew they had a problem when they first built the first model 700s, the model 721 to be precise, and there was a 35 Cent part it could be added to it that made the safety actually function properly. And they chose not to put it on there. Some of these guns eventually were so bad that just a few years ago the military was taking there sniper rifles out to the range and if you just touch the bolt the gun would go off. That is not a safe mechanism and it had never been safe since they first built the firearm. Tolerance stacking when you try and make a firearm more precise was causing considerable problems.
Thank you 44 Hawk - Unrelated comment - I've owned a few rifles with excess head space such as the Lee Enfield and 1895 Winchester and was surprised how well they worked and the accuracy of them; cutting the brass case in half revealed how much the cases had stretched though. Of course these were rimmed cartridges but on any cartridge - the base of the cartridge ought to rest against the closed bolt or breach face or what have you - although you're right and there are different ways to measure for different cartridges - from the shoulder etc... Rimmed cartridges are telling though. Anyway, it's a good idea to check to see if the cartridge is tight against the locking bolt or breach face - which most people refer to as headspace - the measurement locations are various - as you note. All the best.
Love the videos I have a sporterized 98 Mauser Argentine 1909 blonde stock leaded weighted reciol pad scope Bushnell 3-9 stock done with 25 coats of true oil 24inch Santa Barbara 3star barrel
Some of treats of the model 54 carried over to the model 70 , when did they change the safety Style. Of the gun did it have 3 position safety back then
The original model 70 had a flag safety until 1949, and then kept the same safety until 1964 when they changed it again, and kept that safety until ~2008. They went back to the pre 64 safety then
What’s really sad is that the price of guns is higher than ever and the quality of guns has gone completely down the tubes. It’s really sad that you have to find a gun from several decades ago to find a well made classic firearm design.
