WINNERS & LOSERS of Season of Discovery | Best Lvl 25 Class? | Classic WoW 

ngl, Hunters look like they got shafted. They got no new role (like Shamans, Warlocks, Rogues and MAGES!). 2/3 of their runes (for melee hunter and beastmaster) are absolutely useless. And the runes they got for MM already got nerfed. Sad day.

I think for pvp you really should have looked at what people make for twinks and why, the classes used as twinks are the strongest at 19 and 29 and i don't think any of the new runes change that they simply make the best pvp classes stronger, that being hunter and rogue. non of the casters work because of lack of spell power and warriors have always sucked untill 60, that really leaves very few choices. Feral druid is looking very decent tho.

The top free or the top three ?

​@@zwojack7285they're not really new roles since they could all tank already . Mage is just testing for the new class in Midnight xpac (high elf sun mage)

tanks are gonna rule pvp

V cool 😎

yep. actually a good idea from blizzard for once

Thinking hunter, rogue, mage myself.

Same. I 100% main lock, but thinking druid and pally as my alts.

Let's see, you can heal, tank, melee and ranged DPS. I'd say that's a well rounded class trio to go through your journey of discovery. I'm undecided as well but committed to mage/druid/shaman.

ZUGZUG

It gonna be quite sick, judging by the runes. Imo ele shaman is gonna be the most fun if you plan to 1shot people :D

we can finally play Tank Shaman!

​@@MusgravexEle sniper is going to shred in BGs. EB totem/frost shock, instant ghost wolf, and setup for an overload LB kill when they try to chase you down is going to traumatize so many people!

​@@MusgravexEhh. Ele could always do that in Classic. I kind of want to experiment with a Fire Damage focused build. Hybrid between Enhance and Ele. Dualwield Flametongue, Lava Lash with insane attack speed

Flash in the pan that’ll last a week

@@sasukefaanyou’d have to be literally brain dead to believe it’ll only last a week.

@@sasukefaaneveryone who I’ve spoke to that be salty about SoD have confirmed they are 40+. I hope I don’t become scared of change when I get older. Sad to see

theyve been saying that since start of classic @@sasukefaan

SoD-omy hype!

I mean, standard warlock dps were holding threat from entire raids using searing pain spam on certain bosses in vanilla/tbc/wrath. Add in 50% more threat, searing pain might as well be a ranged taunt :)

I think he was saying Warlock is a ranged caster so this is the first Ranged tank. Shaman having enhancement making them not range.

​@@LordSadCat Not, in the video he literally says WL tanks will be fully ranged, which is false. Quote: "The first tanking spec ever in World of Warcraft that will be fully ranged, by the way."

They are fully range :) All warlock specs are range thus the tank is range.@@BreakerBeat

@@LordSadCat I hope you're trolling. Meta transforms multiple abilities into new tank abilities which are melee. It literally says that in the tooltip.

I'm a druid main and I need to ask you this question. What exactly is the "hybrid" part of the druid. Because in vanilla, druids do not hybridize inside pve outside of maybe a feral swapping between tank and dps. The only place hybridization exists in vanilla is in PvP, and even there the playstyle is still kind of lacking in vanilla. Proper hybridized specs exist for PvP best in wotlk. Why? Because feral kites and heals, jumping in and out of melee range. Balance druids do similar things but with less mobility and more burst and cheese. In vanilla, the hybrid PvP idea essentially consists of either feral with nature's swiftness or balance with nature's swiftness. The only other spec thats usually used in vanilla druid PvP is deep Resto flag runner spec, which to be fair is probably more of what you are thinking of, however it takes forever to actually kill anyone in this spec and engineering is basically mandatory to make it at all dangerous. The concept of, "open in cat, swap to bear to slap em, then run away and heal, then start using balance spells to burn them down." Is functionally flawed at a higher level of PvP. At high level PvP it is a tempo game of the druid trading out cooldowns until you can either slowly kill the enemy or break burn away all their escape tools to get out or entangling roots. If you want to actually kill people as a druid then specialising into 1 damage tree and supplementing it with healing for survivability is how you should do it. This is already in sod at 25, as in cat form you can cast sunfire at 0 mana cost and kite things around indefinitely, while using lifebloom to recover any lost him very quickly. The only issue with it at 25 is your tiny ass mana bar.

threat isnt an issue in SoD, you can forget about it like in modern wow

Rockbiter is only 27 TPS, 50% extra threat is nice but Warlock searing pain does 190 threat per cast with lake of fire + meta and 0 SP.

es shock will be around 350 + threat per cast, the new molten blast will be doing around 250+ threat, lightining shield ticks around 75 threat, flameshock (doesnt share cd with ES and ticks have a chance at reseting Molten blast cd) around 150 + threat over the application and the dot. frostshock does about 150 threat, which u would use alternating with flameshock. and on top of that you have a total of about 100+ tps from your auto attacks in lvl 25 prebis (wep dps, attackpower, and rockbiter tps, *1.5x) , def gotta press more buttons then a warlock tank but we for sure will be on top.@@KarlMerkli

@@denisblack9897 LOL you know its classic right?

I'm pretty sure ES is reworked when you tank. It becomes a taunt so I assume they are removing the damage portion. I pray they don't remove the interrupt when it becomes a taunt.

Agreed. When real bosses slip through that avoidance these rogues are going to melt

FF blink tanks were an accident that got nerfed so bad for cheesing bosses it was years for them to become SE endorsed Utsusemi tank.

FF11 you only fought one mob at a time with decent delays between their attacks, blink tanks would not work in wow because you're fighting 3 mobs minimum in dungeons that attack almost every second

@@AyeeSkippy Rogues are definitely looking like boss tanks or off tanks in SoD. Unless they get mad AoE from future runes, they'll be most likely that.

@@AyeeSkippy no one is saying make a blink tank in wow. We’re are saying the concept of an nimble dodge/evasion non-meat-shield tank has been a thing for years.

lol

Smh lol

when is launch?

@@tomforealz4482 Thursday 9pm gmt 10 pm cet

@@tomforealz4482 on thursday 22:00 CET

All nighter stuck in que lol

did people really believe they would just have a permanently at range ( not able to be hit ) tank? every boss is kite-able? blizz isnt able to write a story anymore. did they ( whoever thought warlock would be a range tank ) think they could redefine tanking? really? 2023 blizz?

@@-.-Monster Willy said "fully ranged" in this video at 21:42 - neither he nor I said anything about "permanently at range", those two things are notably different. I figure he simply forgot that the main spells a warlock would use to tank turn melee with Metamorphosis. That said, Searing Pain is supposed to turn to an instant spell, and it doesn't say it turns melee - so it is possible that Warlock will be able to kite-tank better than any other tanking specc. Time will tell I suppose.

Lame af lamer spec

​@CaptainSweatpants90 Searing Pain spam already could rip off tanks in classic so it with an additional 50% threat modifier is pretty much a ranged taunt.

@@amethonys2798 Absolutely true. I'd say it generally looks like threat is going to be mostly a non-issue in SoD, at least compared to how it is in regular Vanilla.

That's so wholesome! I hope you have a blast ❤

U using ur son as a food vendor and portal boy is funny

My son is 10 and ive bought him a pc for xmas. Hoping to do the same. Good luck my man

@@davidsantiago7808 haha you know it!! in exchange for occasional heals and BoPs!!

Isnt 7 years a little bit to young..?

Wait what? Classic paladin was not useful previously? What drugs you on?

​@@teoteo6185holy was strong. Prot and ret... yeah, well.

@@teoteo6185 what he said, ret and prot were meh

@@seanynee The OP didnt mention any Spec,he just wrote paladin

@@teoteo6185 😂 u got a touch of the tism

The additions are terrible for the game and ruin everything that's good about vanilla, but it'll be fun to duck around with. Maybe the next sod they'll actually leave classes with limitations like vanilla so that grouping with other players matters, while still giving them a little more involvement than spamming fireball all raid. The time to level alts or change class is pretty cool especially with the balance roller coaster we're about to be riding.

​@@jiaan100stfu classic andy cuck go back to playing your same boring version of vanilla in your mothers basement

Did u just downvote me?

@@jiaan100 I agree, but I'm willing to accept SoD as pure spectacle, and I think I'll be able to have fun like that.

​@@jiaan100you still have classic

Yea man, wild. Soooo wild. Just WILD content creators are creating content and theory crafting. So wild.

@@rogerdodger1984 It's obvious that what he thinks is wild is that people are focusing on pve instead of pvp.

Because youtubers are fucking dumb as nails theyre just spreading misinformation for views

For real. Dude, I think tank rune'd Resto shaman are gonna be insane. Looking hella forward to it.

@@rogerdodger1984 of course they are going to talk about the changes through content we will experience! My point was that the emphasis in these videos are focused on who will top the dps charts in BFD. Personally I believe there is way more that’s interesting beyond who’s going to do the most damage in a level 25 repurposed blackfathom depths.

@Direwarlord213: I'm struggling with the same choice. One thing to consider that might help you decide is hit chance. Content creators haven't given it enough attention in my opinion, but classes that have access to hit talents at 25 are going to do better than expected against bosses in BFD. Afflock, Spriest, and Arcane Mage are all dark horses that I would watch out for. 10% hit is a nontrivial advantage over specs like Firelock that have none. In fact, all three mage specs have access to substantial amounts of hit at this level (6% for fire and frost), which allows a lot of flexibility if hit turns out to be as determinative as I suspect it will. Just something to think about. Right now I'm leaning mage for that reason.

i think warlocks gunna be pretty cool but why not try both? its only level 25 afterall

Only we aren’t 29, we’re 25. There’s a reason everyone made a hunter or lock in 19-29. How many warriors did you see? How many top dps warriors did you see?

​@@corneliusblackwood9014warrior was just an auto attack simulator at lvl 1-39. Thats why their dps was so bad. But SoD fixes that. You can have an instant attack as early as lvl 1 which will double warrior dmg. Alongside other runes that increase their dmg by an extra 45%. Their weakness was any sort of cc or slow but not anymore. Warrior will be high tier

@@corneliusblackwood9014 quick strike and overpower with windfury is highly underrated. i mean it is not accurate, but if u watch dps in esfands pov at the demo. warrior with smites hammer outsimms that by alot already

This man has THE faith.

@@tannermason4315 haha, fair enough, sadly other classes dont have a simmtool. but warrior simmtool depending on gear and buffs put out 170-230 dps. thats really high for 25, for comparison with same gear warrior did 75 ish dps before

It's kinda complicated. Ret paladin mana WILL be a real concern. the seal got nerfed and is firmly a "tank only" seal, but still returns mana to the party, so a ret in the prot group will get some solid regen. It's unclear how much that will matter this early. In later phases, we could see the speculated-on "spriest battery", or even just druids innervating the rets because their dps will likely make up for it. Crusader Strike is only a paltry 2% regen every 6 sec, whereas divine storm will cost you 12% of your mana every 10 sec. Ret is still a recipe to oom in less than 20 seconds of combat, but the sick thing about SoD is that people will probably find ways around that!

Shaman is the meme tank? I don’t think anyone is looking at a tank who can’t even regen mana against a caster boss at all. Druid and war sweep that sort of thing easily and warlock might keep up

@@imaforceanature7297 Caster bosses they'd use shamanistic rage but yeah imo endgame is going to be druids and warriors main tanking every fight. Shaman will be an aoe off tank but maybe Warlock can main tank but it won't be shaman especially with fire immune mobs in the first 2 level 60 raids.

You sleeping on druid threat. They where already monstrous for it. Now with wild strikes and lacerate on top they gonna be hella strong. The only thing that kept them back was the lack of critt immune

@@Elaksomfan Druid will end up being the best tank. They already were top threat.

Early on you might be right actually. The only way you're getting threat off a shaman who earthshocks and rockbiters is with a taunt. Later on it's lock though. We had shamans tank a few bosses in classic for fun, I wouldn't put one in front of veknilash or patch or something though. Maybe by that time we get a rune that lets them get the 5stack of shield mastery on the pull or something.

Well you still got Quick Strike rune that looks to be spamable 20 rage 2h atack and 20% 2h attack speed buff, so low level warrior doesnt looks to bad

​@@adamjuzwik2888apparently dw still sims higher

Devastate requires a shield to use

@@jiaan100 i tried most combinations and 2h with quickstrike simms highest for warrior. However quickstrike scales with ap not wep dmg so with supbar groups dual wield outperforms it a bit

I thought the same

Afflic is broken in levelling, you practically cant die, dont even need voidwalker as you can facetank and have imp out instead. Dont have to rest mana either, you can Life Tap in fights while Drain Life + Haunt with Runes keep you at 100% hp, and this before u even get Metamorphosis, it's faceroll spec.

@@yavantii3615 I have been over pushing limits just to see how much it takes to kill my lock. Right now with a VW I do 4 mobs fine, with the Imp I do 3. DL + Haunt is indeed deathless if you don't push too hard.

Searing pain is what locks use when tanking because it has high threat. Meta makes it an instant cast

@@JP-ob8sx yes but it also makes it melee range which is what this person is saying. the video says it is ranged but it is not. you have poor reading comprehension.

@@jurpo6searing pain range is not changed. So yes, they can tank at range (but not taunt or cleave at range)

@@nubbins148 Yes, sorry I meant Searing Pain. Woopsie! But yeah, I thought it was made melee range only as well as the shadowbolt cleave/curse of reck taunt but I guess I was mistaken!

@@jurpo6 Searing pain range isn’t changed and I was informing him that it is the ability locks have used for tanking. Might want to work on your own comprehension before you criticize others lmfao

Marksman all the way for hunter. BM is just way too boring

@@pwn3426 I prefer the class fantasy of having a pumper pet over playing MM. From BC through MoP I exclusively played BM and since legion I've bounced back and forth from BM to Survival.

@@pwn3426 Boring is subjective.

If hunters get pet scaling BM could definitely be fun.

Not to mention how Vanilla isn't all that difficult. All content below level 55 certainly isn't. On Classic Era you can run pretty much every dungeon under-levelled, under-geared, with the worst Class composition and you will still get through it without much difficulty. There is nothing with Season of Discovery that points towards Blizzard aiming to make the game any harder or more difficult. All they've said is that they might have to buff the health of mobs to compensate for the fact that runes will make every single class having higher DPS compared to what they normally would, so keeping HP of mobs the same would just make everyone steamroll everything from the get-go. But there is nothing pointing towards Blizzard attempting to make boss encounters more advanced, or make anything mechanically different. Runes makes pretty much every class have a larger toolkit compared to before as well, so you will have less subpar classes that brings next to no value like you have in Vanilla. Even if you somehow end up picking the class that will be the worst tank, worst healer or worst DPS, I don't think you will have a hard or bad time in Season of Discovery. Blizzard seems to be attempting so make everyone overpowered in one way or the other. No one should be feeling like their class and spec is borderline useless. So unless you are letting yourself be dictated by tier lists, you should be having a fun time no matter what you play.

Watch him going from the down of the list to the top in the future phases.

The only use of Lone Wolf at 25 is trying to shadowmeld-insta-kill people running by :)

@@Theaisa Yep you better one shot mages because if not they will blink right in front of your face and spam arcane explosion while healing them self

lone wolf is for raiding. parsing in 2019 classic was all bout keeping your damn pet alive with stay command in a safe spot and recalling it for aoe and stuff like that.

Not necessarily, depending on how much threat it actually generates. Most tanks will probably generate much more threat than molten blast on its own I would assume?

Is it easy to obtain plate at 40?

by 40? nah. 40 hunter and shaman will rule.

@@0oDUBLINo0 It was weird in vanilla due to some mail was better stay wise than lvl 40 plate armor... But SoD might be a change.

@@pwn3426 didn't say Wars would rule 40... But that's their glow up, they start gaining more and more from that level. School/Strat going to be fun again.

@@0oDUBLINo0You shouldn’t have an issue, there’s plenty of quests that reward level 40 plate and RFD for the chest and helmet/Ulda for gloves. The mail from SM is busted though so everyone will run around looking like Herod. Grind the hell out of WSG in phase 1 and you’ll have epic plate bracers waiting for you at 40.

This will be a perfect set up for it

no one knows for sure

I think they secretly have since the dual weild rune for shaman kind of implies you will have dual weild as a skill already

@@noble61483 that’s a really good point

I remember druid going oom super quick at 29 twinns

Lifebloom is not going to heal for much. It takes 3 globals to fully stack Lifebloom and heals for very little at low levels.

Sounds like retail lol. U guys dont know what u want.

​@@bradmettler4566plus most people dont realise it will be nerfed by that stage lol 😂

Not sure how good Afflication will be outside solo-levelling either. Dots are working much better at lower levels, what makes dot classes like Shadow Priest and Afflication Warlocks not working at end-game is how dots don't scale with gear at all in Vanilla. So your DPS is dropping off like crazy while gearing at max level. Should be working great at the level 25, 40 and 50 bracket in theory, but I fear that all these runes and synergies will melt targets making your dots not do jack because your targets are dying too quickly for them to really matter.

They do get 65% Fire Damage Bonus and really good talents (Featuring Machine Gun Imp!). While I think anything around Shadow will be awful, Fire Warlock looks strong to me. And Tanking, well, they're obviously the best tank. They already had insane threat and HP, now they get even more of that with just one rune. At 25, they are like Fury Prot without cutting on the Survivability.

hunters dont get feign until 30 (if you didnt know) - I hope they can't at higher levels tho lol

I would imagine so. Fd is 30 though.

​@@sean7269with the current runes I can't really see a scenario where it would be useful to switch mid combat.... unless your pet died and you wanted to equip lone wolf.

Unlikely, just balance wise, they will block this from happening if it is possible

techincally u attach runes to gear, so if you can change gear then I guess you can change runes

they said maybe

No. Go offtank bfd and be quiet.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking 😂

same here, cant decide which is going to be main warrior seems like the best tank just cause of Warbringer, Warlock will remind me of my happy days in Siege of Orgrimmar cosplaying a demon and dancing naked next to main tank all the time :P

I'm just waiting for 95% of the content they have been pumping out to just be flat out wrong inevitably lol

Kind of a lot of content changes with all the new abilities being implemented. This is completely game changing in every way

Is it pretty easy to level few a classes to 25?

Which classes do you recommend playing? Which class can I level up easily without straining the brain?

That would be so sick actually!

those exist, they're called hunters

yeah kinda, but fantasy behind the range rogue is not the one of the noble warden of the wilds running around with an furry companion and mixing magic and martial competence@@apaxtoa

Yeah it's pretty disgusting, especially since shamans could already hit really hard in pvp. Redirecting 100% of your heals as damage for 10 seconds, I think competes with the tank rune, but is also insanely stupid busted. It'll probably be tuned down to like 40% (seriously have the devs ever played wow? 100% healing as damage?)

ok but you can not use earthshock anymore. That is a tradeoff for sure

The shield rune is simply amazing

yeah cept they are only usuable inside BFD, so yeah ROFL

Undead hunter in classic is something I really wanted

anyone who's paying attention knows warriors are gonna be top dps at 25. they are the only class that has a dedicated lvl 25 sim with runes, and they are putting out insane numbers.

4 warriors and windfury healer. Everyone sunders and theres instant 4 stacks. Then its just op lol.

@@jessew3047 ur right. 2 1hand with raging blow or 2hand with quick strike both with decent gear simm way higher than everything ive seen in the esfand stream with dps meter. Like 2h quickstrike with smites hammer without great boes or anything without world buffs or wep stone simms like 170 dps already. if this is curernt bis gear and ashenvale worldbuffs warrior simms 230 dps. at level 25 lol

Stand on fire DPS higher

And we’re also getting that hit stone? Hit = Rage and Rage = Damage.

Lots of misinformation running around

Yea but that means you took all the tanking runes and no dps runes in an off chance for this scenario to occur. Not going to happen unless you like being bottom dps.

So if a frost mage clutches a victory there should be mage tanks?

so, if rogue tanks are a failsafe, is there any world where rogues turn down the abilities so they can play tank insurance? I don't think this is something that should be added through runes, not when runes are so wild, idk

no

​@@JayTheProductsource:trust me bro

@@sergtrufanov5565 source: they literally said it during the blizzcon livestream

charge in combat is pretty strong, basically 10 rage on 10 sec cooldown. Definitely underestimated here.

@@tomrotelli1355 It's a 15 sec cooldown tho and pretty much you're only skill to get close to someone kinda want to roll a warrior but afraid ill be blasted by any range in wPvP

@@SAKRAYx not having Intercept and Intervene at lvl25 will definitely hurt warrior mobility in pvp.

Parasocial much?

@@DIVAD291it’s called supportive. Not everything has to be an extreme to fit your negative perceptions

@@DIVAD291 yes! 100% omg you got me, help my life is over now. No you stupid idiot, just showing appreciation for his content. The fact that you can’t stand that says more about you.

thats not parasocial lmao stop jumping on buzzwords @@DIVAD291

It does when you accept sponsorships from gacha A.I. art shit.

So who's the best to play

Warriors will be target dummy's at lvl 25

Warrior will probably be mid to bottoms tier for 90% of game. In naxx with bis gear and weapons they will do 1.2k dps and raid will do 1.1k dps and people will still complain they’re OP

@@xXSinForLifeXx More wishful thinking. Everyone seems to ignore the fact that warriors will have access to new gear, charge in combat and massive flat damage increases.

warriors at 25 in ashenvale are going to be feasted on. killed by range any time they try to engage. If they go for stragglers they get pounced by rogues. Early game warrior sucks

Fury warriors gonna be arguably high a/low s tier even at 25 getting an extra 40 ish percent melee damage with windfury...they gonna shock some folks