This confortation between Angron and Guiliman explains some of Angrons views and hate: Guilliman ignored him, aiming a gauntlet at Angron. ‘I’ve heard Lorgar’s puling heresies already. What brought you so low, brother? Did the machine in your skull finally refashion your loyalty into madness?’ ‘Hnnngh. They let me dream. They give me peace. What would you know of struggle, Perfect Son? Hnh? When have you fought against the mutilation of your mind? When have you had to do anything more than tally compliances and polish your armour?’ ‘Childish,’ Guilliman sighed, gesturing to the burning, dying city. ‘Does it really come down to this? So pitiably childish.’ ‘Childish? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave.’ Angron stepped closer, chainswords revving harder. ‘Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilisation to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom?’ Angron sprayed bloody spit as he frothed the words. ‘And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives?’ The two primarchs met again. Guilliman’s powered gauntlets should have easily deflected Angron’s chainswords, but the World Eater’s strength drove his brother back step by step. Chain-teeth sprayed from the weapons as eagerly as the saliva from Angron’s lipless slit of a mouth. ‘Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom that enslaves you, no matter that their armies overshadow yours by ten thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour.’
it was a really good quote. Guilliman's retort was also true and great. 'You're still a slave, Angron. Enslaved by your past, blind to the future. Too hateful to learn. Too spiteful to prosper.'
If anyone had a right to give 'Dad' a punch to the nose, it is Angron. Well him & Magnus. I would say the Iron Warriors, as they got spit on by everyone, even by Perturabo. But I wonder if even the Emperor could stand there, and get punched by every Brother in an entire Legion, and survive. Before reading this quote, I was indifferent to Guilliman, now I want to brand him with uncharitable words and throat-punch him, and I'm just a Cultist!
@@leslieoliverii9035words only one who didn't understand the true horror of the butcher's nails could utter If angron tried to not be violent, tried to aspire to be more than be was, the nails would punish him even more It's hard to be anything more than a mindless berserker when even simple tasks like blinking or breathing cause agony Now apply that agony to every second of every day that isn't spent shedding blood or engaging in combat
Oat lord there are lots of theories. But I don’t think GW will ever go into it. The mystery is always a great part of this setting. But you are not wrong! The 2nd are mentioned more than the 11th. Both connected with the Rangdan Cerebvores. One day, if I ever feel up to it, I might do a piece on them. But it’s the fact we don’t know that makes them so juicy. :). Thanks for watching/listening oat Lord. It is very appreciated indeed. :).
@@oatlord and thank you for listening/watching. It honestly is a team effort. I learn as much from the comments section sometimes as I already knew. Many thanks again for coming here and spending precious time to discuss. It is very appreciated indeed. :)
I read a theory somewhere that there are 2 unknown legions so that 2 home brew legions can do battle and still fit in universe. Therefore the less we know about them the more functional they are. I personally give this theory a 50/50 if there isn’t lore that contradicts it.
@@whomthebelltrolls1361 Far as I know, that's not a theory. GW did that so players could make their own legions for the table top. Why I will never know considering how you can just make your own chapter and it's essentially the same thing without leaving a gaping hole in the lore. I've heard them called the lost and the forgotten. My theory is either the second or the eleventh is the first renegades. They are the lost because they basically took it one step further than the White Scars. Jaggy was always talking about just leaving and never coming back. The first renegade legion did that, they are the lost. As for the forgotten, I don't know. Maybe they got stuck in the warp somewhere and got shat out 10000 years in the future? Big E wouldn't want that getting out so he made them the forgotten. Why Games Workshop doesn't just add them to the lore I'll never know. It's not like the renegade god *EXPUNGED*
They got dealt a rough hand from the start. Angron especially. But, you are right, I had never thought of that comparison! Thank you for the thought! I may well use that, if you are not averse to it. Brilliant. I always say this is a two way street - building the site together. :) Thank you for listening. :)
@@baldermort or like when rogal had to thin the herd because he knew his sons wouldnt conform to the codex n he didnt want another civil war so he sent them into the iron cage..unlikely as it may be perhaps the emperor allowed to some extent thid blasphemy n accepted the eventual loyalist losses as theyd go out and butcher any and all xenos n tyranid tendrils even if theyre now under the blood gods sway..thunder warriors served their purpose n then had to be culled kinda shit idk. I love warhammer lore its fascinating af. Appreciate ya.
Ha! Now I know what you mean there. I have a particularly strange perspective on the Emperor I may share with the brotherhood one day. Lets just say, I don;t think leopards change their spots. Actions, as much as time, are cyclic. Looking at the Thunder Warriors definitely gives you a clue what he does when a tool is past its usefulness, is all I will say now. :)
@@baldermort Master of Mankind version? or do you think he actually cared about his primarchs are his sons? 'at least some of them' the way he fucked over Angron really felt like the writer didnt know anything about warhammer at the time :/ at the end of the day though..his righteous fury will be exacted at the edge of my blade and from the bottom of my bolters magazine >_> "leans backwards falling out of the thunderhawk down to purge the unclean"
Its so difficult to make a solid decision about the big E. Or George as I love to call him in private. Either we pick and chose our favourite writers and state that the rest 'are incompetent' - but that also means the editor in chief is incompetent - or we say that there are a myriad ways of looking at all of the details and that many of the characters are 'unreliable voices'. I think its fun to be able to see things from multiple angles. Makes it more exciting. Hope the drop goes well. Cleanse and purify! :)
I’ve always felt that Angron and Magnus were the Sad’s stories. The Emperor dropped the ball with Angron. If the Emperor would have joined Angron in that battle he would have gained a potential loyal servant instead he gained a forced servant ready to strike back at its master.
Yep. I am working out why the Emperor did what he did. I would love to just mark it up to 'not the best writing from the author' but that's lazy. We either accept it all, or none of it. SO I am doing my best to try to work out a good angle on this one that isn't lazy. When I work it out and think it is worth sharing, then I will do the Angron Video. But yes, it does indeed look like big E dropped the ball. :(
That is not entirely true. Angron was proud, and although I can not remember the source (most likely the Angron primarch book) he muses that even if the Emperor interfered, this would've been insulting for Angron, who wanted to die beside his brethren. He would've most likely rejected the help of the Emperor and would've resented him anyway for taking away from him the sweet release of death together with the rest of the Eaters of Cities (his slave friends).
@@ChavdoMnml you're right, angron had a death wish, his beef with big E was not that he didn't help him win the battle of nuceria against his slave masters but that he forcefully removed him from it because he would've been killed for sure and the emperor couldn't afford to lose one of his primarchs in such a meaningless way, if the emperor had intervened and teleport down with his custodes to help out, angron still would've been resentful of him because all he wanted was to die alongside his slave brothers and sisters, he would've felt slighted and dishonored by the emperor's assistance, the emperor did what he did because a resentful primarch was still a primarch that could be used for the great crusade and he chose to alienate angron rather than let him die, he would rather see his son angry at him than in a grave and he hoped angron would be able to understand this eventually as his understanding of the motives behind the great crusade and the wellbeing of mankind grew which as we all know didn't really happen, angron was too angry, resentful, remorseful and shamed to look pass his personal pain towards the greater good (butcher's nails not helping in this regard) taking him by force from Nuceria was really the only option the emperor had other than to let him die.
Spud in betrayer he speaks on how hurt and betrayed he is at the hands of the emperor. He speaks on how his weak brothers got to keep some of their closest friends and family but there was no such mercy for Angron. He’s angry and knew the emperor didn’t care about him how he might care for the others. Angron always knew he was an outcast because of how he was treated from the start. Never once shown mercy in his entire life. After a life of torment beyond belief his father returns and big surprise... shows Angron no love or mercy.
Excellent. Love how you acknowledge how the traitor legions/primarchs merely did what the Emperor created them to do, and were condemned for it. I've argued that very point quite often.
Well, its only my view at the time of writing the vid. I still hold this one tbh, but always reserve the right to change my mind if someone comes up with brilliant idea that change it. Thanks for watching, Gadzilla. It is very appreciated indeed. :)
Dang you show the world eaters in a light that actually makes them cool. Everyone else like to say they were blood angel wannabes. I myself knew this not to be true and I am glad this is confirmed here.
Baldemort: “gentle listener.” Me: “BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!” Edit: you capture the emotion of the story and lore so well
"What would you know of struggle, Perfect Son? When have you fought against the mutilation of your mind? When have you had to do anything more than tally compliances and polish your armour? The people of your world named you Great One. The people of mine called me Slave. Which one of us landed on a paradise of civilization to be raised by a foster father, Roboute? Which one of us was given armies to lead after training in the halls of the Macraggian high-riders? Which one of us inherited a strong, cultured kingdom? And which one of us had to rise up against a kingdom with nothing but a horde of starving slaves? Which one of us was a child enslaved on a world of monsters, with his brain cut up by carving knives? Listen to your blue-clad wretches yelling of courage and honour, courage and honour, courage and honour. Do you even know the meaning of those words? Courage is fighting the kingdom which enslaves you, no matter that their armies outnumber yours by ten-thousand to one. You know nothing of courage. Honour is resisting a tyrant when all others suckle and grow fat on the hypocrisy he feeds them. You know nothing of honour."
I like the World Eaters because, along with the Night Lords, they’re the most upfront about what they are and why they do what they do. The Night Lords see Chaos as a tool at best. While the World Eaters are devoted to Khorne they don’t kill, maim and burn to get in his good books. They kill because they like killing.
Yep. Had the same thought many times myself. WHo would he be? What would he be actually best at? What aspect of the Emperor? Sigh. Maybe Black Library will do a 'what if?' type alternate world one day. Fingers crossed. :)
@@baldermort Well we had Fabius clone two primarchs before, why not the third time? And what we're missing from the primarchs is a proper phylosopher, and sometimes Angron gives that hint of a man who can think and see the truth in things, see the greater picture, have honor and respect.. but it all gets distorted with the butchers nails.
I liked the old version of the butchers nails. Rather than just causing pain, it numbs you to all other emotions but pumps you full of adrenaline and amplifies aggression and rage.
@@illuminati7767 well if you literally feel NO other emotions, there would really be no driving force for the characters development. As an example, he wouldn't be upset by his brothers being left to die by the emperor, completely removing his reason to turn on the emperor eventually.
Tarvitz could see dozens of gunships, surely the whole of the World Eaters’ arsenal.The lead Thunderhawk dropped through the ruins, hovering a few metres above the ground with its assault ramp down and bolter fire sparking around the opening. ‘This isn’t your fight,’ he yelled over the gunfire. ‘Get out of here! ’‘Emperor’s Children never run!’ replied Tarvitz, drawing his sword. ‘They do from this!’
Tbh, second favorite legion here. Just the pure unbridled, unending, unrepentant hatred and fury of such psychotic mad men, the oceans of blood they spill just because they fucking can is astonishing. They are the unstoppable force who have yet to meet their immovable object.
His voice has me imagine an Imperial instructor teaching history to Inquisitors in training. ( The depth of information given seems like it would be reserved for Inquisitors)
I don't think that's an accurate depiction. He was unable to really feel anything like loyalty due to the nails. The only thing he was able to know was rage, pain, and hatred!
What he wanted was to have been left to die back on his home planet with his fellow slaves that rebelled and were fighting to death in the mountains when big e came and took him right out of the middle of the fight. It’s said a bunch of times in a few books. He didn’t want to be a primarch he hated his sons he only cared about his old life.
This is wrong the man we see during the crusade and heresy was a revenant Angron died on nuceria with his brother's and sister's in the northern mountains close to the city that claimed to enslave him the emperor stole him from the death he earned
Damn! That was good. I love how all your lore videos are told from that factions perspective. Gets you really pumped listening to it. I see your subscriber numbers are skyrocketing as I thought they would. Well deserved.
Thanks, Paul. I think most subjects have been covered by someone on line, but I like to think I get under the skin of the faction and project their motivations and 'essence'. These small videos of introduction are just for new players really. Or those who have never taken an interest in their faction's lore. I feel that knowing the background makes narrative play a million times better and may be a more viable alternative to competitive play. Nothing wrong with competitive play, but a good narrative game can also be a lot of fun!
Thanks a million, Kilgore. I really appreciate that. I have to admit that I got a bit too much into character and got a 'bit frothy at the mouth' while recording this one. Khorne. Sigh. He gets into your head. :) I hope to be putting out more content regularly - so just give me a nudge if I stray from the path. The Emperor Protects!
@@baldermort I like how you got into character as it gives a much different feel then other youtube warhammer lore videos. The line "the world eaters once served imperium but they were always butchers as they had been made by their father... " makes you think differently about the emperor. Great Video.
I think that my brother Angron and his World Eater children are my favorite allies because like me and my kin they have stayed true to themselves, true to their nature, they were not corrupted or tricked or forced into the worship of their God... we saught only the truth and found it only after lifting our fathers blindfold.
18:09 "Please? Sir Angron? Forgive the interruption - don't worry, that was indeed very intimidating a speech, my Lord - but those are _two_ things. You said Khorne only wants *one thing.* ... O-oh, did you want us to _also_ start up our chainswords, my Lord, or...?"
So, I have recently found myself with a lot of drive time in my daily routine. The world eaters are my favorite faction and THIS video makes my soul happy. Love listening to your videos on my drives. Please keep this up as long as you can dear narrator
I always found Angron’s failure to take his world as something hinting at his true nature as a primarch, and not his character as one, And you hinted at this in the video. It seems he was designed to be the honorable enforcer. Essentially the commissar of the Primarchs. To be venerable. Where the space wolves were loyal, the war hounds were HONORABLE. And I think THAT is why he was put on that planet, like Curz being on nustramo, the butchers nails took away from Angron what he was MADE for. Control. Control through specific and targeted ruthlessness. And Angron continues to fail because 1) he literally can’t think straight. My man is playing this game on NG+ cut him some slack And 2) the butchers nails directly conflict with his nature
I really like how you narrate it in their (heretical) point of view. Makes me feel kinda bad for Angron being a product of his daddy's design n all, just being himself.
Another great one 👍 dark red prose dripped from a knife coloured nib. As they say in Birmingham “Ah, ‘twas bostin are kid” nice one oh shiny topped scribe 👍
@@baldermort I have no doubt about that, i just discovered your channel as i recently got into Kill team & 40K. Been playing age of sigmar, still do, but to switch things up i got into this via a friend. The world eaters are my favorite Heretic's and Your lore video's are amazing and i am binging alot of your video's right now learning bout the lore. Thx for the reply Brother. Awsome work!
Well, they release every day. They work hard in their own way and to their best ability. At least they really seem to enjoy themselves. :) Thanks for listening brother Berry. :)
Love these videos, I do find it funny that it starts by saying Horus will be covered soon but there are no videos on him on the channel to this day lol
I loved this!!!!! You missed a couple things, but to be fair; to cover all of the lore for their legion would be quite a long video so understandable! You have a amazing voice, and after seeing your Word Bearer video I believe that you have more of a WB voice than a World Eater voice. You did the legion proud! I have subscribed, and hope to see more stuff from this channel in the future! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!
OH these are only introductions so we leave out loads! But again, I am only a fan myself. I will never know faction or any faction better than their own devoted fans. My own, sure! But never all of them. Thank you for joining us, brother. :) :)
I thoroughly enjoyed your video. You have an incredible talent for lore reading, I’ve been reluctant to ever make a RU-vid channel, but I just had to tell you instantly how brilliant this lore video has been. Consider this my first youtube sub, along with my first comment. Do you do audiobooks too by any chance?. Keep up the great work.
I'm often confused when people say "the wolves" if they mean the Luna wolves or the Space Wolves. Were the space wolves known as something more commonly back during HH?
The Wolves is now almost exclusively used to denote the Space Wolves. The Luna Wolves became the Sons of Horus and then the Black Legion. in 99% of the time someone will be talking about space wolves. :) Just so that helps a tad. :)
Came across your work whilst I was searching for Warhammer content elsewhere and needless to say, I've since stuck with you amongst others as you really bring an entirely fresh, exciting and enticing feel to what I've probably already seen much of from other content creators. The way you read stories, actually explain and discuss and lead quotes... it's amazing! I'd love to see how you'd fair reading/producing Audiobooks of Warhammer 40K as 'A Border Prince' does :) p.s. I first heard of the World Eaters when I played a Warhammer strategy game app on mobile, never knew they were who they were but I love their lore and backstory and you did a fantastic job here, it's almost like I never knew who they were before I watched this video :)
Dhurak that’s incredibly generous of you, brother. I’m hoping to do something larger at one point. Producing books was not on my list, as I didn’t see his ABP or GDN got away with it, if I am honest. Copyright. But then, I do Psychic AwKening I guess. Hmmm. Still sounds dangerous?
Dhurak i can’t see how it would be. Everyone else may say ‘yep, I want it’. But they forget that I’ve spent thousands of hours building this channel. Thousands. :(.
As brutal of a leagon as they were, Angron would possibly not have fallen, or died a hero had the big E been written by someone with any semblance of a damn brain who knew the actual lore. I speak of what big E did to Angron that set him to forever hate big E no matter what. On the eve of Angrons last battle with his kin, his family, those he fought, bled and lived with. Big E, thanks to, for lack of a better or calm way to put it, shit writers, whisked him away to watch the death of his kin from space, like a coward. Had big E been written with even a hint of a fucking brain, given he was over 20k years old by this damn time, he would have seen his son was a warrior who valued honor, strength, and kinship above all else. And thus, with even, a fucking hint of a brain, big E, the guy who knew of the old ones, the war in heaven, a faint knowledge of chaos and so much more, would have known taking his son from his kin the way he did would Garner never ending hate and resentment. Instead, had he been written right, as is a sad case for much of the stories in warhammer of either fantasy or 30 to 40k, he would have waited until his son was pushed to the near brink of defeat. Then, with a display of teleportation, appeared next to his son and revitalized his kin the slaves with his vast psychic powers, and then gave his son a nod. Saying something like, "Do not worry my son, for this day, you fight not alone, for your father, and your sons, fight by your side." At which point the red angel would be confused, until firy comets of drop pods and thunder hawks rocketed down to the battle field. And inside, were the war hounds, come to aid thier gene father. And to earn his respect in the only way a warrior can, battle. And with the REAL big E beside him, and his sons at his beck and call, would he free his world and all slaves upon it. Then, again, had a writter, not a moron who deserves to be fired and never touch a black library book ever the fuck again, written it right. Then big E would have made his slave kin faulse astartaes, and enhanced all of his female slave kin to be battle maidens. So they could stand along side thier friend and kin, the red angel. Then, with a REAL fucking story of how it SHOULD have happened. Angron would, and could not fall. Instead, he would rather die a hero, then stain his, and his people's honor to his noble father, who had done so much for, and saved all he cared for. And in turn, instead of the angel dying at the hands of a weak minded coward. The red angel could have ended, or weakened the arch traitor, and forever been known as the red angel, the saviour of the imperium, and the most noble warrior to have ever lived. *sigh* If only. Great video once again my friend, never stop being awesome brother.
My only defence of the incongruity of some of the writing is that we have no idea what their remit was or their goal. I am not saying this happened, but imagine if you were a writer and someone may have said 'make the Emperor a bad guy in this book and make the Primarch a victim of his injustice'. Again, I am not saying this happened, but what if it did? My eyes would cross and I would say 'are you suuuure you want me to do that?' - Yes! Make it complicated and vague and make there be real doubt about the goodness of the Emperor. We need him to be a figure of contention.' Or maybe the Emperor is just the scoundrel that they wish to project, but for me it makes a mockery of the ardour of his adherents and defenders. Makes it all lies. Which is grimdark, for sure, but is it right? I am always torn on this issue. Always. Sigh indeed. :) There can be no absolutes in a world like warhammer, but the shift in writing and its content is bemusing at times, I have to concede. very. :) Amazingly put, as always, brother Sinful. Amazing. :)
I can't say I agree. A big part of the nuance in the HH stems from Emperor's clear lack of care for his sons. He was pretty much always a detached and aloof figure, seeing them more as tools than people. That distance is what led to Chaos working it's way into at least 5 Traitor Legions, and kicked off the Heresy. Besides, you can't just "change" the pre-established storyline to suit a desired sense of morality in the Emperor. The Emperor demonstrated incredibly stupid judgement on far more than one occasion. The simple fact that told his sons all of *nothing* on Chaos made even the Cabal scratch their heads. But then, hindsight is 20/20. If anything, it makes a clearly understandable motivation for Angron resenting his father. What would be the alternative? A groundless hissy fit? No, that would degrade the whole story.
Papa Nurgle yet there are so many ways of looking at the emperor due to the differences in the writing styles and projections of what he is and his he acts. Short stories counter the established ‘he thought of them as tools theory’ on a regular basis. The differences in the writers approaches are designed to give multiple angles and the level of debate we are having now - or incompetence. It’s an ongoing discussion that will rage forget as that is what it is designed to do. In many books the emperor shows real care and kinship with his sons. In others the view that he only sees them as tools is forwarded. It’s brilliant or accidental. But at least it elicits discussions like these. And while we’re doing that we’re not concerned about our real stresses. Perfect. ;).
I love both your views ^-^ To have a community willing to talk about such things openly and let nerds like myself vent pent up frustration makes this a place worth being a part of. I can see both arguments being possibly correct. Or possibly GW dropped a pile of crap on the poor writers desk and said do it. Much like the death of Chewbacca from star wars the EU. None the less, thank you for your second views and ideas. Ave Emperator Brothers and Sisters.
No matter how many times I hear of the World Eaters or Khorn Berserkers, I cant take them seriously. They seem limited, mindless, obsolete. Just canon fodder in crimson rags.
Came across your channel a few days ago and I absolutely love it! Keep it up! However you mentioned a Horus video at the start but I can’t find it, any chance of a link? :)
The Warhounds did what the Emperor created them to do. The Worldeaters under Angron's purposefully destructive leadership, imploded and died exactly as Angron intended them to. He hated them and the emperor and was actively trying to destroy them. To be fair he was insane because of the nails.
Geez, at least Slaneesh offers a good time for worshipping her. Khorne and the World Eaters sound like they are just no fun to be around. Like it makes Perturabo seem cuddly by comparison.
@@JudicialBrat And the Khorne worshipers kill you, sending your soul to be unpleasantly made love to by demons, take your skull, and personality wise, they're the literal definition of REEEE. As for Slaneesh you could luck out and become a demon prince, then you get to deal out the surprise butt sex, instead of being on the receiving end. Really I wouldn't want to be involved with either, because they are the some the cruelest gods in fiction.
Just got my audible and listen to the chosen of khorne really liked it and loved the voice of kharn the betrayer but still in thirst of more world eater content and am wondering what else books available to listen to about the world eater or angron or even more kharn the betrayer
Space Marines are savage, brutal, unflinching warriors. And World Eaters were basically shunned because they cranked that up to 11. They're more 40K than the rest of 40K.
Which means he is a great character! People only love or hate good characters. Its a huge compliment to Angron if you ask me. :) Thank you for listening, brother Hispanidad. :)
I think one thing that might’ve been interesting in the story of warhammer 40k and far more grim dark would be that it was Sanguinous(I probably spelled that wrong) who betrayed the Emperor while it was Angron who remained loyal because it would show that those of honor became dishonorable and it would have the blood angels fight with twisted codes of battle and follow dark codes of honors while the World Eaters would be noble savages that massacre their enemy but justly which is kind of like the salamanders but more dark and blood angels could have the red thrist be twisted by Khorne to heal them while the black rage would only empower with that you could probably think of many things that would make this bit of story sound more grim dark the more you look into this change to the lore
