worshipping narcissists | qualiasoup & theramintrees [cc] 

Why would God even want to be worshipped by finite, flawed individuals anyway? A perfect being requires no worship, since it is complete and has neither want, nor need.

Broke: "Blood is thicker than water" Woke: "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" (the bonds you form of your own volition are more valuable than your blood ties)

I was a narcissist, even my reason to stop being a narcissist was narcissistic. Glad I was able to be aware of it before I get old and stubborn

_Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child._ -- Robert A. Heinlein As always, most excellent! Thanks to you both, TheraminTrees and QualiaSoup!

I just realized I've been employing the "grey rock" method since childhood...

Even when I was a churchgoing Catholic, I thought "original sin" was not only stupid, but toxic.

There is a subconcept called "Fleas", which refers to when those who are under a narcissist's power for a while, will start to take on some of those unhealthy narcissistic traits themselves (often as a defensive strategy). Once you've escaped, & come to recognize some of these traits in yourself, it can be difficult to rid yourself of these "fleas". But what separates you from a narcissist, is that you actually want to.

Funny, I was sitting in a serious social science/ anthropology course on the development of religion many years ago and the professor related a story how he skipped church on a Sunday to fish with his father. Being a young boy he asked his mother why would it be a sin to do such a thing and she asked him to ponder what kind of god would take offense at such a thing. The question led him quickly down the road to what most atheists would call the rational conclusion. Isn't it strange that just a bit of pondering and reflection can drive away the darkness but so few people are willing to do so?

My motto: those who don't want you to think critically are always against you

1:44 "We were repeatedly told they both knew our minds better than we did." I'm reminded of a line from the film The Truman Show: "You never had a camera in my head!"

I cannot begin to describe the profound effect your words have had on my thinking. I was already an atheist by the time I found your channel, but you've helped me to further refine and define my positions on morality, reasoning, religion, thought, abuse, and so much more. Thank you for all you do to make a confusing world more clear and understandable.

This series of videos should be mandatory material at all state schools.

This should be mandatory viewing in every school in America, if we survive our current narcissist crisis.

Brilliant video, thanks! A few years ago, I had dealings with a person who really messed up my mind. Learning about narcissism, manipulation and cognitive dissonance is what saved me. Then a few months later the penny dropped, and I realized the group to which I belonged was using the exact same manipulation techniques. Six months ago I left the Jehovah's witnesses.

"If you have no right to disapprove, then your approval means nothing." - Thomas Sowell

You wanna know what Zeus said to Narcissus? - "You'd better watch yourself"

the way yall compare manipulative humans and manipulative deities is incredible. i guess its because manipulative humans created the deities but the parallels are so fascinating to me. yall help a lot of people with these vids :) thanks

I found the brief discussion of Worship (19:47) most percipient. When will we, both as individuals and societies, come to the realization that the attitude of worship is unhealthy? When will we refuse to bow our heads, and choose to stand erect? When will we rise, wipe the dust from our knees and resolve never to bend them again for man or god? Again I refer to the magnificent orator, Robert Green Ingersoll, who observed: “The church demands worship-the very thing that man should give to no being, human or divine. To worship another is to degrade yourself. Worship is awe and dread and vague fear and blind hope. It is the spirit of worship that elevates the one and degrades the many; that builds palaces for robbers, erects monuments to crime, and forges manacles even for its own hands. The spirit of worship is the spirit of tyranny…Whoever worships, abdicates.” Individuality, 1873

Fun fact: the full phrase of "blood is thicker than water" is "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" which basically means the exact opposite of what is usually infered, that the family you choose is stronger than the one you were born into

Job is an amazing book for revealing the Biblical God's true character. When he finally shows up to confront Job over his perplexity, after destroying his house and all his goods and killing all his children, he actually gets sarcastic! That's twisting the knife, particularly since Job was perfectly willing to be submissive as it was. Not to mention a lie. God's sarcasm was directed at convincing Job that as a puny, limited human he could never hope to understand the vast perspective and purposes God has for the world, but we know from the prologue that all Job's suffering was just to facilitate a lousy bet. It's like the plot of _Trading Places._

The analogy of a parent who "just wants a relationship" and is yet removed and uninvolved in your life is a really good point. Yet its not that different with a god who "just wants a relationship" but we don't see , hear, or perceive this god with our senses. Only the mind game of "is this god, the devil, or my own thoughts" is what we have to go on.

"Do not bow to me." "You do not wish it?" "I do not deserve it." -Jean-Luc Picard, a better being by far than Abraham's god, straightens out a primitive alien

Oh, so, that's what it was, that stopped me from going no contact with my narcissistic mother- naive compassion. I am very naive anyways, due to my Asperger's. I genuinely loved and believed her. What a stupid waste of 30 years.

I'm divorcing a narcissist and for years I thought I was the problem. Great video.

26:15 Your tale of your narcissistic parent reminds me so much of my own narcissistic parent. I recognized that she was never going to change, so it was up to me to make the needed changes. Like you, I also employed the "grey rock" strategy of shutting down all non-essential communications, limiting contact, no sharing of confidences. In time, I built a hard wall of determination around myself. My efforts paid off. One day she came to me to create a drama out of nothing, I decisively shut her down. I established boundaries, and I enforced them. But perhaps like you, I succumbed to a bit of hubris. I thought perhaps she had changed, that I could have a healthy relationship with her. I was dead wrong. She didn't change, she just changed tactics, found more subtle ways to fuck with me. Eventually all the narcissistic controlling drama-seeking bullshit came back in full force. While I haven't completely cut off contact, I'd like to think I've limited her destructive influence on my life as much as possible.

I can’t tell the difference between QualiSoup’s voice and TheremainTree’s voice. When I found this channel I actually thought they were the same person lol. Another excellent video

I'm saddened to hear you and Qualia had that kind of abuse in your youth.

Your clear and cool reasoning makes me feel calmer in this world of selfishness and stupidity.

This one really touched me, fellas. Absolutely brilliant. I want to thank QualiaSoup for taking the time to join TheraminTrees on these videos. His contributions do not go unnoticed.

When I heard them talk about "behaving for a time" and not expecting narcissists to change, it made me think about another video where they mentioned that their parents said that they were "ashamed of how they acted" and "were proud of the people you'd become." Made me sad to think that their reconciliation with their parents might have been an act. : /

As an atheist who is currently struggling with the remains of religious guilt, your videos have provided a logical comfort for me. Thank you.

"Maniacal child" is a perfect descriptor of the god of the bible, as well as those malignant narcissists I've encountered throughout my life. I understood this when taught "religion" as a child and rejected much of it at the time, but importantly, the bad behavior helped me recognize it in humans, even as I have had to endure the abuse. Narcissism is insidious and destructive. I've fully rejected it all now, but "grey rock" approach is not always an available tactic when dealing with malignant narc humans.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." - The Essay "The Crack-Up" by F. Scott Fitzgerald 🌀

Yellow rock is also a path to consider- going grey can sometimes incur retaliation. Yellow rock is effectively gray rock but with the caveat that you give the minimal response in order to guard your safety in the moment. Thank you for helping me in my deconstruction and understanding of narcissists (as amateur as i may be)- it’s helped me help others in small ways to get out from abusive relationships by sharing information and giving them support.

It's like when people say "Well life's not fair..." Like that's an answer to anything... I like to quip back, "You're absolutely right about that... So What can we get started so we can work on fixing it or at least get it heading in a fairer direction?" And if they scoff at that... " Well then, what have you done to make it a bit more fair in the long run then?"

I'm an undergrad getting my BA in Psychology(transferring to a Grad School to get my Masters in Counseling), and I find your videos fascinating! I live in the South in the US, and it is extremly hard to find psych/secular books here(they put The God Delusion behind the counter at the library) Thank you so very much!

Yes! This is exactly why I was so uneasy about Christianity. I remember being a 10-year old kid and reading a cheery little comic about Job. God said to Job in the comic that he punished Job because Job made a mistake, but it confused me so much because I remembered that God was only torturing Job because Satan made a bet with him.

I cannot say enough how greatfull I am for your channel. I am a victim of narcisstic abuse for 57 years now. I know it since 3 years. So traumatised and brainwashed and the feeling of helplessness and complete isolation ,I searched for help in "speciallised" therapists. 2 of them were narcissists too. The toxic shame made me so sick. I then asked God for help and read in the bible and I felt even more ashamed. I work on my healing every day since 3 years and slowly I became better. It is not easy and it takes time but I will continue. Your Videos are so eyeopening and helpful to make aware of the internalised traits from the narcissists in my life, like echo as an enabler and flying monkey with naive compassion. Thank you so much. I realise that I am still in the traumabond or" betrayalbond". I work also with this book " betrayal bond ".very good book. Thank you so much.(Sorry for my bad English;))

so off topic but oh my lord your voice is so nice

Now I ponder polytheism... Certainly much less cognitive dissonance with some gods doing good and others doing evil... (Not that I believe it, but it is certainly easier than a monotheistic outlook.)

Dear TheraminTrees, some of my early memories about learning to pray was, to overcome the feeling of submission. It felt like a combination of feeling silly, and not wanting to do it, to lower myself to this entity, to grovel. With time and family pressure however, I pushed to the back of my mind all those confusing feelings. Later as I started evaluating my belief, those feelings that I got when I first started worshipping, bubbled up to the surface. Worship is a learned behavior. It forces the followers of a religion to ignore their individuality, Their pride, Their self worth, their freedom, and their dignity. These are the same characteristics absent from a Slave beholden to his master. Which is what Islam Prides itself about. Muslims say, as a point of pride, that they are slaves of Allah. I wonder, Is it too, why most evangelicals supported Trump. They supported him despite his womanizing, narcissistic and authoritarian tendencies.

This channel is a gold mine for characteristics to add to antagonists in stories.

Your videos make me feel guilty about ways I've manipulated people in the past.

Pertinent of current US politics, thanks.

This hits all the nails on the head. My JW mother is unhappily married to my narcissistic JW father, and I wish there was some way to get her to absorb this without her mental shields going up.

Wow, another great video. You're a candle in the dark. You give me so much needed hope to keep going. Greetings from México.

On a whim, I came back to this video after reflecting on the two-parter about the imposter, and it's amazing how many details just slip into place after hearing the stories from those videos. Hearing "if their actions caused destruction, harm, even death, blame was deflected onto others" and knowing about Rags... it hits so much harder.

Finally! A RU-vid content creator that uses the term gaslighting and knows the plot of "Gaslight!" :)

Hmn... Today is Corpus Christi, a national christian holiday where I live. Got time to watch the video you just uploaded ;-) thx

I was watching this video while one of my daughters was helping me put things into my calendar on my smartphone. Eventually, I realized this video was about the other daughter that the two of us were talking about. Thank you for helping me see the extent to which the manipulation and exploitation will continue, if allowed. I had already recommended that my one daughter cut her sister out of her life. Now I know it is the only stable option.

thank you. I've been thinkin a lot lately about how narcissists were drawn to religions like that. That's been a thing for me lately. It's refreshing to hear someone else to say it.

This is so awesome I don't have words. Your explanation of narcissists with both Yahweh and examples of real-life narcissistic personalities and relationships that ensues is a perfect description of the abusive relationship that I have just woken up to. Listening to atheists videos including yours woke me up to the abuse I was suffering by demonstrating religion and gods as abusive. This video was horribly painful (because of how accurate it is) but so enlightening. Thank you.

I don't get why we're all punished because some Adam and Eve who I've never even met no one else has ever met managed to screw up a perfect garden why does that affect the rest of the human race

This channel is a testament to clear thinking logic and reason. Very enlightening and thoroughly entertaining. Top notch work.

I genuinely logged back onto my computer because I wanted to rewatch losing faith but I guess I'm doing this now

Your videos are helping me a lot. It is incredible how guilt and manipulation can make people blind to clear abuse. Your work is really liberating.

As I'm listening to your description of narcissistic gods, I think I finally understand why American christians support trump. He's the embodiment of their god.

Man that hit hard good job Theramin & Qualia Soup. It got me thinking. What kind of parent would purposely hide all traces of it's existence from it's children & then try to communicate it's wishes through means, that are indistinguishable from coincidence, in an attempt to get to know them & warn them about the impending Hell fire.?

You are so amazingly articulate and organized. I am not a genius but I recognize genius when I see it. Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, i am finally understanding narcissism and understanding how my childhood family was interwoven with it. If i could vote thumbs up more than once, i would. I will share it with a couple of friends. A wonderfully done video, by the way!

You are the best psychological analysis channel I know.

Beautiful font. (The clip was excellent in other respects, but I'm listening to this while trying to design some letters of my own. If that alphabet is your creation, color me jealous of your hard work and skill. Many thanks.)

"In the era of the gods, there once was god who stated; 'I am the only god!' Following said statement. All other gods laughed themselves to death"

Thank you thank you thank you for these videos. Seriously. I'm binge watching them today. And as a consequence feeling like I can do "this". "This" being continuing to improve myself as a person, instead of blaming, excusing, deceiving, faking. These videos help expose parts of my shadow that have been there forever and need attention. Especially my ego.

Thank you! This is extremely accurate and I will use it to educate my friends on narcissistic people and 'gods'. I wish I had seen and understood this 15 years ago, then so much suffering would have been avoided.. keep up the good work!

What a relief to hear someone talking sense about religious stuff - thanks 😃

I never noticed this before, but the shadow of the God in the beginning forms a cross. That is a very nice touch

Another great video. You guys don't get nearly the recognition this content deserves

Thank you for this. This was amazingly comprehensive, beautiful, and perfect.

This video deserves millions of views.

Your videos almost always describe my religious dad and stepmom to a T. You've helped me immeasurably to overcome the psychological fleas I got from layong with religious dogs. Thank you.

I openly admitted to worshipping my narcissistic exwife, but it's only in the last few months that I realized I was fawning, and only upon watching this video that I realized the worship and the fawning are one-and-the-same. Really good stuff here, much appreciated

I would like "Blood is -thicker- messier than water" on a tee shirt.

I'm going to spin out a hypothesis, somewhat based on your video, about William Lane Craig. He justifies (in his mind) the worst acts of the bible, the worst acts in human history unconnected with JHVH, and the worst natural disasters as *good* things. When it comes to religious apologists as enablers it's sometimes hard to tell if they really believe what they're saying or it's just a way of making money. I suspect WLC actually believes this stuff. Now to drag some strands together out of which to weave my hypothesis. There are many similarities between victims of family abuse and kidnap victims or hostages. The kidnapper or hostage taker may not be particularly narcissistic, the intent is not to get praise or cause drama, but the results are the same. The victim/hostage starts to identify with the abuser and to justify the abuser's actions. "John is hitting me _because I did something wrong." and "The thieves were right to rob the bank because the system is against them and so of course they needed hostages." The victims deflect some of the pain by assuming the abuser has greater wisdom. In essence, victims of family abuse develop Stockholm Syndrome. It used to be common for devout people to describe themselves as "god-fearing." A few years ago I talked with a Jehovah's Witness who described himself as "god-fearing" and he meant it literally. I believe that many people who used that term also meant it literally. They are in perpetual fear of what god may do to them if they make a mistake. They describe their god as just and loving and wise and yet also fear him. Which seems to me to be very much how those with Stockholm Syndrome and victims of family abuse behave. My hypothesis is that William Lane Craig spouts his repulsive, vile crap because he is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

The opening song is so creepy, I'd love a full version

I'm amazed at the quality of the Spanish transcriptions. Thank you 😊 I can tell about a Catholic psycologist whose theory is that Jesus came to sacrifice himself to end up scapegoating being a scapegoat itself but making clear that victims are always innocent. It makes sense in regards of opposing the old testament. At that time the worshipping of gods such as Baal included human sacrifices and they didn't sacrificed the old or the ugly; they sacrifice the fittest and the most innocents, mainly children. I quit therapy with him because he was messianic and guru-like.

From QualiaSoup and TheraminTrees I can brew my own golden tea. Sincere thanks to the both of you, even so many years later, for making the world a little bit easier to understand. These videos are an absolute treasure trove. Now I'm off to try and distinguish whose voice is whose, lol! :D

I swear, this channel more and more perfectly elucidates all the hypocrisy and mental/social abuses in religious groups.....

amazing analysis. Love how you dismantled the need to be worshipped of deity, and religion based on such deities. This is really impactful, because so much has been based on such values in humanity, and these values sometimes transferred even in domains unrelated to religion.

I still find myself feeling like I’m gonna be punished by God for not believing... But not by flying monkeys, but by God himself sending me to hell in the afterlife. This trauma is real man... It sucks that I was indoctrinated from such a young age that I’ll never completely not believe subconsciously. It’s like being insane.

It is absolutely astounding, even unsettling at times, just how accurate you are in these videos. You are doing an amazing job and I am sure many can open their eyes to the real world thanks to you.

I wanna say my point of view on narcissism here (anyone, feel free to respond). Narcissism is a based-formed defense mechanism. It's the shame of being "ordinary" or "not good enough". It's full of magical thinking and rooted deep-heartbreaking trauma. Narcissists shame others the same way the have been shamed and the same way they shame themselves. Shame is a trauma-response-emotion. Think about it this way: if something about me makes me ashamed, I won't try to show it to people. Maybe I live in a culture in which that trait is received with violence. Maybe the shame is keeping me safe. Think about gays who live in homophobic cultures, don't go out of the closet and shame other gay people. "I'm not like them. I'm one of the good guys. Please, love me". Of course, when you don't show that unconditional love and adoration, the narcissist reacts the same way a 3 year old would. Fear. Anger. Hatred. Lashing, quick emotions. It's like the cry for help of a child that feels like they are about to lose their mom. They form this grandiouse image of themselves to make up for all the abuse they got. Their ego holds on all the triggers. They get triggered all the time cause they are full of trauma. It's not born out of love, but rather out of fear, shame, hidden pain that they bury deep down cause it's so much that feeling it feels like the end of the world. They are always running away from their past, running away from the trauma, trying to not live that again in the future. They blame themselves for the abuse (unconsciously. They don't neccessarily have to agree that the abuse was right, but at least find ways to justify it when it comes to them) because that gives them a false sense of control that gives them hope. "If it's my fault, I can change it". They hold on to that hope. They are depressed. They are the kinds of people that think "All I want is to have my own family/to have X job/to have X, and once I have it, I'll be happy". It's a defense mechanism that is constantly encouraged by some cultures (cultures can be "toxic") and social structures. It reminds me of the alpha wolf theory and how the guy that wrote the book that popularized the term spent decades begging the editorial to drop it down cause it was factually wrong. Wolves in captivity don't behave the same way that wolves who are free and the theory was based on the behavior of wolves who were forcefully captured and imprisoned for the study. I observe the same kind of social dynamics in the captured wolves, human prisons, schools, abusive/"narcissistic" families, social roles... I also know about human societies/cultures that act more like the wolves in their natural habitats. I wanna end this comment saying: no, it's not you, it's your environment. And if you are struggling, I'm sorry the people around you suck.

Very informational! I love you TheraminTrees

Incredibly well made video again. Your reasoning is superb and so accessible. Love the graphics, thanks for all the effort you put into this. Just want to share, share, share.

I've recently spent a bit of time playing The Sims 2 for some nostalgia, and learning about narcissistic behaviors from this video made me think differently about one of the premade families in the game. The household consists of middle-aged couple Daniel and Mary-Sue Pleasant and their teenage identical twin daughters Angela and Lilith. You can probably see from the names which narcissism-indicating family dynamic is being played out. Looking at the twins' memories shows that Angela has always been cared for and encouraged, while Lilith was neglected and basically left to raise herself; I always found this disturbing, but now I have the vocabulary to describe it as a very clear Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic. Of course, this being a Sims game, characters' personalities are up to interpretation, but now that I've seen this in the fictional family, I really can't unsee it. I'm not sure whether the narcissistic parent is Daniel or Mary-Sue or both, though I suspect it's Daniel because of some other indicators (deep need for attention, causing drama, infidelity). Perhaps the most disturbing thing about this dynamic I've noticed, however, is the fact that the current devs of The Sims 4 seem willing to play up the Golden Child/Scapegoat dynamic, as versions of Angela and Lilith in the Sims 4 library assign them traits that support the good-twin-evil-twin setup. It's as if the developers are also trying to slot the characters into these roles. Considering how the marketing for the Sims series has gotten more into celebrities creating their "SimSelves" since the series left Will Wright and Maxis's hands, it seems like there's a bit more of an emphasis on the narcissistic aspects of playing SimGod (down to potentially putting an idealized avatar of oneself into the game) over the storytelling aspects that make Sims 2 such a nostalgic game for me.

this hit home hard. thank you

I have deep respect for you, you just summarized my childhood in the last 4 minutes. Thank you, for making it more clear for me.

In the opening comic when the man admitted he was the one who had cancer i honestly choked on my cheerios and had to pause the video and laugh for five minutes straight while writing this comment ... So beautiful a description of every person i know ...

I have always thought that nothing could make up for the loss of 10 children

My father is a narcissist and my mother is an enabler. We were in a church that ostracizes anyone who leaves. I got out of my parents home by getting married and my spouse was a narcissist. This video gives me chills.

Great, well thought out video as always! And for me, it’s very timely too. My sister-in-law is dealing with a narcissist right now, her boyfriend. He’s probably going to lose his job because he’s skipped it so much, and he’s blaming her for making him feel “depressed” because he can “only think about what she did in the past” when he sees her. Yet while he has cheated on her several times, she has been loyal. He’s abusive and neglectful to their children, and presents a double standard for them, ignoring his daughter’s bad behavior while punishing the son for the same behavior. I’m glad to see this video, and I hope my sister-in-law can find her way out of this hell.

This was so well put together it deserves some kind of award, plaque, metal, etc... bravo bravo!

As always... fantastic work. Thank you for this.

wonderful

I just realised i never get any ad on this channel. I really wish there would be so you could make money out of these videos. Mind opening channels are probably one of the greatest things of internet. One person’s teaching can greatly improve the world

I've been putting off watching this. I expect I will cry as I recognise people I used to trust in this :3 Thank you for making it, lovely brothers

Hi I'm an exjw and i truly appreciate you mentioning them in this video because they are extremely problematic.

I came to realize that religion was narcissistic on my own. Now i realize how messed up the world is as majority of people are religious and are apart of this toxicity.

My step mother is well known by the word "ungreatful" everyone one in my family has had this shouted at them at some point or another. She would buy us clothing that didn't fit. Like too tight or short or items we never asked for or wanted. If we didn't immediately gush over it and her we were labeled as ungreatful. I used to think she was a narcissist but I'm leaning more towards sociopath as of late.

When I was a kid, I remember reading about the story of Job. Taking away his house was ok. But when Satan took away his children and it was just replaced with new Children I was confused. But drilled into me was that God was holy. If God was replaced with someone else then I would have easily recognized it as problematic.