Yes I'm still alive! Sorry this took so long - was a much tougher video to make compared to the Alliance one. Wanted to make sure I did it right. Will have part 2 for you in a few days most likely. Edit: I promised I would update if the tauren hidden range racial made it in...and it did! clips.twitch.tv/DeadTiredHareOhMyDog
Orc is the clear choice for pvp. I didnt realize the impact hardiness had either until years later... Fears in pvp? Warrior fear on long cd, priest fear on 30 sec cd and warlocks. Warlocks dont matter because they are SUPER underpopulated ally side due to 40-50% of horde rolling undead and having wotf. Warriors have STUUUUUUUNS charge, intercept, grenade, tidal charm, unstoppable force (about 50% or more of all warriors who hit max will get unstoppable and never upgrade it), mace specialization, conc... Needless to say having 30% stun resist is more impactful in a fight with a warrior who will likely attack you with 10-15 stuns throughout the fight while only using 1 fear. Priests have their 30 sec fear, but honestly... In pvp Spriests will be spamming rank 1 shadow word pain for blackout procs. Most good pvp healers also put points into blackout for the cc/peeling as well... They are going to be landing A LOT more stuns than fears. All of this considered, even the classes who use fears, rely on and use MORE stuns so hardiness is just better... That doesnt even mention ALL the stuns in the game, impact (fire mage), imp concus(hunter), intimidation(hunter), pounce(druid), bear stun(druid), kidney (rogue), cheap shot (rogue), mace spec (rogue), hammer of justice(paladin) warstomp (tauren-duels) and that is just off the top of my head. Im sure im missing a ton, not to mention itemized stuns other than unstoppable and nade... *A quick point on unstoppable force. Warriors will account for about 15-25% of level 60s depending on which faction youre playing... This is consistent from Classic poles to private server values and is a repeating occurrence every time a server launches. People KNOW warriors become crazy strong and a lot of people will go warrior due to this. When AV releases, ALL of those warriors will be getting AV rep maxed and using unstoppable (and other rewards) unless they have been able to pick something up in a raid. As time goes on a significant portion of warriors will continue to use unstoppable forever. All the warriors who are dungeon crawlers and dont raid, will have unstoppable for pvp forever. All the warriors who pvp exclusively and arent able to reach rank 14 will all be using unstoppable. A lot of warriors who are in raid guilds but are saving their rolls/dkp for their pve set will all be using unstoppable. I cant stress how significant that weapon is and how common it is. This means that a class that is incredibly bursty and threatening in pvp, that will be heavily populated and ALREADY uses a ton of stuns, will likely be wielding an item with a built in stun and will likely be specced for mace with another chance to stun... Hardiness. Fucks. Warriors. Up.... Hardiness. Fucks. Rogues. Up. Consider a ret paladin. They have NO gap closer. They can use a consume or try to use terrain to cut you off and gap close... If they are able to close the gap, they have ONE chance - hammer of justice on a long cooldown. In most circumstances, against most classes Rets win condition is heavily reliant on hammer and as an orc you have a 30% chance to completely ignore that stun. Assuming they land the stun, they may have a chance, but if they cant and youre a ranged class? You win without taking damage. This is the beauty of hardiness. It isnt great against one thing. Its incredible against EVERYTHING. Which doesnt even speak to the other advantages orcs have (depending on your class). Hardiness could be 15% stun resist and it would STILL be the BiS racial for pvp by a fairly wide margin.
Back in Vanilla. Parking my orc warrior in Azshara to get something to drink. Come back and hear: *boing* *pause* *boing* *pause* *boing*, around five times. Sit down, look around. *boing* "Oh someone is here!" Pop bloodrage+demo shout: rogue gets into combat, tries to run away. Gets rooted with hamstring, pops his evasion thing, dies a horrible death, with overpower and HoJ procs, while beeing stunned by mace spec and Unstoppable Force. He missed his sap at least six times in a row.
As an old school undead arms warrior who grinded exalted with Alterac Valley, I can inform you that will of the forsaken was invaluable in PvP. The high amount of skilled warlocks who would seduce you with their succubus, or the rogues that would blind you just so that they could use every cooldown on you and chain them until you died, turned that skill into a blessing from above. Chain fearing was also a thing from Warlocks. I won so many fights that I would not have won if I would have been another race. Skilled Warlocks and Rogues was not something to take lightly in vanilla. Also, if you did not have a healer that would spotheal you in PvP, then cannabalize was amazeballs between fights.
@Ezra Everything the OP here says was true, for the unnerfed WOTF that lasted 30 seconds. It was the end all be all. This one lasts 5. It's usefull, but it isnt the blanket fear/seduce immunity that could last you a whole fight against a warlock.
@@Elthenar Exactly! I loved having my 30 second WotF racial! My Undead warrior and rogue both loved it. When they nerfed it to 5 seconds the Undead race became oh-so-average.
First advice: Never let racial skills or abilities determine your choice of race. (Even if you play priest.) Play the race and the class whichever you feel the most comfortable with. It is RPG. It is more important that you enjoy the game than some random other guy gets your fear ward or that you have 5 more sword skill.
You will be staring at your character a lot. If the undead spine sticking out of their shirt is gross don't be an undead. Or if you don't want all the cow jokes and think the troll has the coolest looking shield block for tanking be a troll
Tauren is easily the best tank for me. I never had problems with threat generation, so I don't see it as very valuable at all. The 5% hitpoints though, that's just amazing. The reasoning that these only matter when you are in those bottom 400-500 hp is completely backwards of course: 1) The higher your health, the easier it is to heal. Healers can use bigger heals, preserve more mana, let hots do more work, and generally have an easier time. 2) What kills the tank is always damage spikes, which this helps to survive. There might be a time when your healers are (for whatever reason) unable to heal you. This helps you with that.
LMAO "And there he was. Just standing there. Regenerating 5 hp per second." I glared at the troll. The Troll glared back at me "And theres nothing you can do about it" The troll whispered. hahahahaha!!!
You know, I’ve been watching your videos since the early legion days. You’re not as monotone as you used to be. You’re much more relaxed and definitely have more emotion in your voice! Either way, it’s the most relaxing voice. Thank you sir
Every once and a while I get the urge to play WOW despite never ACTUALLY playing it. I get to live vicariously through you given I don’t have a computer. I thank you for that 🤜🤛
I thought I was going to be bored with this but it turned out to be very informative and a testament to how well this stuff was straight forward thought out back then
don't worry about ppl who call you "monotone" because you're really not that much. you make excellent chill videos so keep it up man. i haven't even played wow since mists and i still enjoy your vids
The bucket analogy is wrong. HP is always good because it provides a buffer. When I was a tank in WotLK, I incorrectly believed that avoidance was the way to go. I had about 22k HP (when other tanks had 35k HP), but I had around 70% avoidance (and they had 40%). What ended up happening is I got gibbed A LOT, but also healers burned through mana faster with me than with other tanks. That's because if the other tanks got hit for 15k HP, they were still at 60%, where I was down to 25%. So where you could use an efficient heal on the other tank and get them back up, you had to burn big heals on me to get me back up to a safe amount of health (where I wouldn't die on the next swing). You're not just giving yourself an insurance policy of 5%. You're also giving the healer more breathing room to keep you topped off.
If you are down to 25%, I probably would be using fast heals instead of big heals to at least get you over 50%. It depends on the healer, Paladins fast heals were pretty efficient mana wise, but this is in BC, I admit I don't have vanilla experience in this matter, just BC. I was a shaman healer and I often would not risk a slow big heal if the tank was at 25%, and it's unlikely I would be aware of your avoidance unless you told me. It's actually the bigger health pools that would drain my mana more, and that was usually bear tanks who had more health, but less avoidance. I preferred warrior tanks and maybe Paladin tanks most in BC. Bear tanks just seem to take so much damage. Ideally you should go for a good mix, obviously you want buffer health in case things go wrong, but having good avoidance will make your healers love you.
5% more health could also be more dmg from your healer. It all depends on how well and how risky your healer plays. If your healer only overheals you the 5% are useless. Buf if it enables him to manage mana/spells better and makes him throw a little dmg in it is valuable.
tauren melee range is actually 9 yards, meaning that tauren hunters have NO DEAD ZONE which is massively important when considering playing a horde hunter especially for pvp, where smart mages and rogues would try to stay in the deadzone (out of range of melee, too close for ranged attacks) in order to avoid taking damage from you. I feel like this is a BIG THING that you failed to mention here.
This is either my first or second youtube comment. I just wanted to say thank you for all the awesome content. I'm so nostalgic watching your videos and cannot wait until classic is out. Thank you so much!
Man, I remember back in TBC when I first tried out WoW, my friends made me make a night elf (boooo) and I decided to go with warrior there (double booooo), but when I saw the undead I instantly knew what side I wanted to be on, and what character I wanted to play. So I made an undead warlock towards the end of TBC, and I eventually leveled him to max in the middle of Wrath. He's still my main today! ^_^ Idc what people say about the story, I still like it, and ultimately even with the flaws of later expansions it does feel cool to be playing a character I've been playing for several expansions. There's a sense of history to all the experiences I've had on that character, and it really does feel like a journey of sorts. Bring back tier sets tho, Blizz, plz.
Surprising pick of having Trolls as the best tanks. I didn't really think about them as tanks before, but I agree with you. Also am glad you talked about Tauren reach, and how the Blizz Classic servers currently don't emulate that. : 3
Oh they do. Now at least us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-not-a-bug-list/175887?fbclid=IwAR0RVkMOI1ELYWKrBAJcAdhkRtlZXofsGNIGbM5Nel0N5WHNkSyIVhNNUDk
You're doing a severe injustice to the tauren HP racial. 5% is massive when talking min-maxing. Berserk provides a completely negligible amount of threat over a fight that it isn't worth mentioning, and will of the forsaken is only useful on two raid fights. Its worth mentioning too that Blizzard nerfed the tauren racial from 5% health to 5% base health (MASSIVE nerf) in Burning Crusade because of how strong it was.
Naw. Taurens are awful. Tanking is about threat. That is it. Orcs generate the most threat. Axe spec is huge and Berserk is not negligible, it is massive in very specific circumstances... That being said, its often unusable for tanking due to the healing debuff. I agree that undead warrior with wotf is possibly the worst class/race combo in game given how many answers warriors already have for fear mitigation - a complete waste. Tauren 5% is... okay? I mean, no one is going to argue that health isnt good for tanking right? But the reality is that low end guilds will bring far more healers than they need and healing will NEVER be an issue. In top end guilds, warriors will be rolling as fury, even dual wielding in many cases to increase threat per second so survivability is not a priority because the MOST important factor is threat per second. Competent healers will be able to keep up tanks. Bosses are very... very... very forgiving. PVE is very... very... very forgiving. You could roll an undead warrior and tank all the content in the game (despite it being the worst tank/race combo horde side) and it wouldnt matter. So either youre min/maxxing and go Orc, or it doesnt matter... If you choose your race for pve and you are min/maxxing, orc is the clear choice for top end guilds where threat is more important than anything else. If you are choosing a warrior racial for pvp, orc is still the optimal choice (by a wide margin). If you are choosing a pve dps for warrior, orc is still the correct choice. Either you choose you race because YOU want to be a tauren/undead/troll... OR you min/max and choose an orc. This doesnt even mention hardiness... which is the BiS pvp ability ingame. Orcs are broken. I wish they werent, but they are.
@@SkeppoGaming Tanking is about threat per second. TPS above all else. On private servers tanks are going dual wield fury with double axes to establish threat. If they need to swap to a shield, they do. But essentially the raid goes BALLS deep for the first 1-3 seconds of a fight, SPIKING threat, the tank then TAUNTS putting him 1 threat ahead of max threat, RAID STOPS DPSing, and he dual wields to create MAXIMUM threat, at which point he equips a shield. This is the most efficient way to tank. You dont need to stand there with a sword and shield. You dont need as much active mitigation as people like to pretend. Instead of a raid standing there for 15 seconds watching a tank hit the boss and create terrible threat, this method spikes threat and allows the raid to go balls deep RIGHT away. It helps the tank with threat, and thus control and it speeds fights up by A SHITLOAD. Expect the meta to be similar to this on Classic. As for WHAT weapon tanks will be using. Depends on race and whats available to them. DPS > Everything else. DPS = TPS. Threat matters. You can always swap your weps / shield during a fight if you need extra hp/mitigation.
@@Justaguyyoutubin thx for this detailed answer! so i guess my way to go is def. orc warri. i always thoguht tauren is better for tanking especially in new content when the 5% really matters. it actually should be so when u engange new content with higher item requirements or not? sure when u are full equippt with stuff i understand to generate tps with dual wield but in new content!?
@@SkeppoGaming Quel'Serrar can carry you all the way to Naxx. Thunder fury is the best choice, but farming DM for the book isn't too bad an option for a weapon that can carry you a long way.
I just love your background music, so much ff music and other games, when you played the risk of rain music i immediately recognized it, keep up the great work man! :)
Will of the Forsaken has two advantages over tremor totem: 1) Especially in 5-mans, you might not have a Shaman 2) You can react faster than waiting for a tremor pulse (Also, your shaman may die)
As a former Troll Warrior in classic, the HP/5 was not something to consider, until you got a lucky string of defensive rolls and you gained just enough hp back to survive the next hit when your group is dead and you finish off the mob. Happened a few notable times for me in dungeons.
If I remember correctly, Berserking can turn shaman's healing touch into 1.8 sec cast at 30% health (for 10 seconds!), which is super useful in both pvp and pve. I can't stress enough how many times berserking saved my buttocks as a shaman.
The Axe Specialization for Orcs is amazing for PvE tanking as well. It helps so much with threat. Other races need to get Edgemaster’s or Aged Core Leather Gloves and use daggers to acquire weapon skill. Having Orcs at #4 for PvE tanking is silly. I honestly think they should be #1 MAYBE #2 If a Tauren is willing to grind for Edgemasters bc then the 5% HP increase is very helpful.
Once upon a time WoW had actual rpg elements in the game. I'm excited for classic but I'm also waiting for Blizz to be themselves and bastardise it, destroying the entire point of its creation.
I doubt Activision will mess this up. But because it is activision and not blizzard, I can not support this game. As much as I have wanted classic, because the company is no more and they have proven to not care. I will not fund their bad business practices. Even if that means I do not get to play an old favorite.
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u Activision has influence over WoW. Not over Classic WoW. The Classic WoW dev team already has a budget and a project, there is nothing that Activision could do to impact that, contrary to what that guy says, yes.
someone probs already noticed but I'd like to point out that Tauren's increased melee range almost nullifies the hunter's dead zone. So Tauren Hunter is a really good combo imho
Even though in game it suggests that the Undead are cannibals with their Cannibalize racial, in lore its supposed to be they replace damaged body parts with ones from their victims. That is why they can only use this ability on humanoid and undead victims but not beasts despite also being made of meat.
Wouldn't replacing a single tank item with a dps item more than make up for the Trolls atk speed buff? 5% hp if you have 4k hp is 200 hp, which is 20 stamina. The set pieces of tier 1 have about 20 stamina each.
I think I can speak for the majority of watchers when I say that we don't mind the redundant explanations; in fact, I appreciate them - no need to mention to skip it.
first of all thanks for making these videos. Now what I am about to say is not a joke or meant disrepect to you, but man your voice is soo soothing that it pretty much cured me from my isnomia. When im in best I just put your video on and listen to it and its the most caliming there is for me, your only competition is some rly strong meds. Please keep more content comming, as a wow fan I find all your videos interesting, so I’m not falling asleep because of boredome. I wish you did audio books. That my wish for this year.
You made a good point I hadn't considered as a Tauren Tank... I always thought they were meant for it due to the 5% HP increase, but if that's the difference between life and death for a tank, your healers aren't doing their jobs well... As a Druid Tauren Healer from Vanilla to Current, I have to shamefully agree. That makes sense.
Don’t forget that the troll beast slaying buff was nice when you wanted to pick off hunter pets in pvp. Maybe not so much in open world or 1v1, but in bg’s it’s common to catch them off-guard and eliminate their pets under their noses
I'm actually glad you cited the music you used because once Calm Before the Storm cover by Super Guitar Bros was playing I thought "wait a second.. this isn't wow.. it sounds final fantasy..? WHAT IS IT" and had to look through your music you listed haha.
Disagree with you on Tauren Racial for Tanks. The extra HP can make the difference between a wipe and a successful fight. Just my opinion :) Great video though
Speaking as a prot warrior from Vanilla, Trolls Berserker racial was the best aggro racial in the entire game, used correctly (at lower Health levels ) it outclassed Orcs with an Axe and Bloodfury. In later raids this became pretty important if you wanted to clear faster, which was mainly limited by how much aggro a tank could dish out, especially without Paladins and their noob blessing.
Hooray! I have been looking forward to the Horde version. As someone who missed out on Classic the first time around, I'm trying to research as much as possible in preparation. :)
man you have some really quality videos! lots of useful information! Very excited for classic here in 20 days! thanks for helping me get a good head start :)
*Ben shapiro comes bashing through your windows with a battleaxe and full barbarian armor yelling his signature battle cry* "FACTS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS"
The tauran warstomp is also amazing in both pvp and pve because the ministun interrupts spell casts. It doesn't lock out a magic school like a proper kick, but its great in pvp to deny that clutch heal. And I used to use it as a tank for a lot of trash mob spells (though often the mob would just re-cast their spell the moment my stun wore off).
Honestly, youre a really Gentle guy Joseph but... No. Due to spell batching, which is returning, and server delay... The likelihood that you will consistently land your war stomp (a stun with a cast time) on a clutch heal - like flash heal is low. Also - this DR's your other stuns like nade stun, intercept, charge, mace spec, unstoppable force, concus... It just isnt worth it. Situationally it can win fights, there is no doubt, but overall it is underwhelming. If you want to make a tauren, do it! But dont justify that with war stomp... Hardiness is the BiS pvp ability ingame. If you are choosing your race based on pvp performance, Orc is best. If you are choosing the best race for pve for a warrior that is dps, Orc is still best. If you decide you want to tank in pve, Orc will still be best.
Didn't the Troll +5% Beast dmg include Druid forms? This could be important, simply because Druid forms made sticking to Druids as a Warrior a pain, so more damage to them is helpful.
i would say you are underestimating the value of the tauren hp racial it's useage isn't for farm content it is for progress the tauren racial allows the tank to need less gear inorder to surive stuff. and with the challange of vanilla that is far more important than threat gen.
Hey,Madseason, I am glad I watched this video, because I am a Regeneration Troll warrior, it's actually 20+hp per 2 sec in combat from about 200 spirit alone,and that's discounting lifestone trinket,and I'm also spec in fury so I get 35+ every 2 sec when I get crit by mobs,with blood thirst and a one hand dagger that gives self healing + some spirit gear also has healing effect modifiers on it ,food and cherry on top like Mighty troll blood potion,it gets really crazy,you gain health instead of lose them fighting mobs higher level than you, really useful for leveling from 35-60 and soloing lower level dungons.Very decent in dungon tanking and PVP against Paladins and not geared ppl. I'll describe like this,avg 80+ per 2 sec in combat means，30 sec fight you get 1000-1500 extra health.And if you have enough armor from your paladin gear lowering mobs dps to below 40 with defense stance,you can go afk in combat and cook some ramen and come back. Forgot to add,there is this level 44 armor chance on struck heals you for 60-100 which I used for the longest time, This self heal build is really nice for leveling up a warrior pre raid,and I always keep both bigdic set and spirit set in my bag
As for warriors being the hardest to level I never played one but I leveled a prot spec paladin to 60 ( yea I fell for the pallys can tank thing ) hard to imagine a harder slog than that ! Another great video man keep em comin !
Not sure about vanilla but in classic private servers war stomp was effected by spell pushback. Which is pretty significant when fighting a hunter or rogue, pretty important information imo
Guess it’s not super impactful now-a-days. But for me the RP element came into play for my race/class choice. I wasn’t super big into RP but I did take it into account a little bit.
I am happy that I still have my old Vanilla WoW guide :D I still have that old book lying in my bookshelf. :) Got it when we bought the battlechest for BC :D
