Dewalt has been doing some game commentary on his channel (it is in russian) and it's actually fun to compare his pro perspective with Arty's and watch their videos back-to-back. My main takeaway so far is that Arty is much smarter about talking starcraft than he might sound sometimes. Also, Dewalt never gets chills, probably because he's from Siberia.
People normally focus only on action (battles), but I love the commentary that can show the setup as important part too. Even in real wars, it is not only about battles, logistics plays a big role but often it is ignored. Awesome commentary about Scan's setup.
@@stambe8605 are you implying that you can't build wraiths fast enough to counter it? I wouldn't know. Well wraiths can go invisible, and much more versatile than Valkyries because they attack ground. i assume people don't use it because his AA missile deals explosive damage, which sucks against mutas.
@@Euler271 Dude, in this game Scan build 1 wraith. What you are describing is doing a 1 base 2 Port Wraith build to fight of Mutas which is a viable build. Its not a single Wraith vs Shuttle deterrent like in this game. Its a completely different strategy. If you are talking about going Gasless into 2 Port Wraith that is too slow vs 2 hatch or 2,5 hatch muta play.
@@richardnguyen2914Because there's no other transition left. Going with stormdrops are fruitless with 3/2 Goliaths on the map, same with Arbiter with vessels having EMP floating around so Gatewayman will get flattened by max weapon upgrade tanks.
My question is, why not a few ghosts to try and cloak ambush with lockdown before an engagement? Starting with 4 or carriers less shooting interceptors I think could be massive in a fight, but I never see LD in the pros that much?
@@stefanc4520 No, just Valks/Corsair splash damage i.e Air to Air splash. Not sure about Devourer's Acid spores splashing effect as its not damage, but a debuff. Archon's air attack can also splash interceptors i think, but its inconsequential due to very short range and kinda slow attack speed + plus who builds Carriers in PvP and then who counters them with Archons :) Still if you Stasis a mass Carrier fleet and then position 6-7 Archons bellow it, when they unfreeze you can obliterate the whole fleet with 2-3 shots and then chase and slide shot, somewhat of a poor man's Archon toilet like in SC2.
scan played really well, the end was a little bit anticlimactic but thats just the nature of carriers and both players played well here but im very impressed by how scan is playing going for the wraith to deter the drop, repairing his siege tanks to retain momentum, sniping high templars ahead of the tanks with his vultures, knowing when to go for the factory explosion all these little moves add up to allow for this massive push that won him the game one more thing i would love to see is come late game during one of these pushes is for terrans to bring a couple scv's to the front lines after a big fight to repair all the tanks and improve the momentum of the push
not sure about great connection to Korea from Siberia. Used to play plenty of MMO and other online games from Russian Far East, most of the time your signal goes to Moscow first hence high ping
This was a perfect game from Scan. Holy cow! He kinda proved the Terran philosophy with this one: you block everything until your timing comes up, then you hit it! While he didn't win outright with his push during the carrier transition, he did enough damage that he was able to make the full transition to mass goliaths before the carriers could reach critical mass. Well done! Now I really want to see Scan vs Best. How is Scan gonna deal with 2 robo mass speed shuttles and the superior macro of a top Korean protoss?
He would probably lose, Best is a top tier Protoss and Scan is a ro16 ASL player on a good day. No shade on the guy, I love how he plays and I root for him every time.
Carriers did reach a critical mass as 8 Carriers is critical mass. Its not 12 or 16 but its alot, thats why even after out expanding Dewalt, Scan didnt have an easier time closing the game out even after he crippled the protoss's economy, due to the power of mass Carrier/storm.
This game blows my mind. Somehow building a starport after building two factories is just mind-bending shit that nobody has thought of doing in twenty-five years
I like Falcon Paladins brood war replays because instead of telling you what he’s excited about in a monotone voice, like you seem to do for some reason, you can actually hear the excitement in his voice about almost everything when he talks. It really makes for a much more exciting replay and video to watch on RU-vid. You may want to consider taking notes.
Another great videos Artosis! Glad you mentioned that whole bit about valks, I did not know how they interacted with interceptors. Today I learned something new!
21:00 Yea, Valkyries are useless versus Carriers, Wraiths however actually kill carriers pretty well (their main problem is you have to be in a position where you can dive the carriers with the wraiths for it to work; but it does severely haper the ability of the protoss to use the carriers offensively without proper support from goons and high templars, which have to respect siege tank positions). Another good option if you don't think wraiths will fit is mixing in some ghosts for lockdown, a locked down carrier can't get out of a bad position+its interceptors return to the carrier and thus are out dealing damage and being a distraction for goliaths or other anti-air.
This is so close to the type of open I was envisioning, with that star port at 2nd fact timing (more vultures rather than tank only). Speed wouldn't have had a problem with Snow if he did it... And again, u don't have to commit to wraith, but if you do, it can still be used to scout tech more completely than scans. Also, what's important isn't to deny the shuttle coming in, but to deny it the ability to micro in your base, thus capping the limit to damage it the drop can do. Next variation involves making 3 wraiths off the one port, so that not only can u handle multiple shuttle drops, but also scout and harass probes without the roadblocks that vultures face. and requires additional costs to defend that are different that currently used to deny vultures.
Have you thought about making a playlist for the Flash 'comeback series' of casts? I think there's something evergreen about the progression: Flash forcing upgrade terran initially, tuning it, then innovating. Seeing those changes in sequence enhances the whole experience.
Thanks as always! Just a minor point of feedback: sometimes the observing gets a little jerky. Quick cuts are totally fine, but if we’re not needing to change screens to highlight something, it might better to try to keep the camera still.
ive explained it a few times you target the carriers with them. 12 valkyries can drop a carrier at even upgrades down to 90 hp(16 to 1 shot). the carriers can not kill the valkyries before they fire a second time and it only takes about 4 more to finish the job. they are not there to wipe out 200 interceptors in 1 volley, they are there to target stacks of carriers to reduce the count to a number that is easier for goliaths to deal with. the only reason you would let them fire on interceptors is because unlike goliath missiles when the interceptors return to the carrier while being fired on they will drag the damage back onto the carriers so while you gather the numbers you can sit them in back on hold and let them fire at the stray interceptors. go test it in some custom games
@@sir0herrbatka they can have all the income they want if you are against them going carriers and you stop making armor for your vehicles as switch that armory to ship weapons and 1 starport valkyrie, all of their carrier production is a waste. carriers need enough to overwhelm your goliaths if you dont have a large ground army under them to distract goliath fire while creating a wall so goliaths cant click a carrier and chase it. by the time you get 8 carriers a terran can have 5-6 valkyries on 1 port. then it is a simple waiting game to get the last 4-6 because really 10 valkyries is enough to kill a stack of carriers its just more costly than 12. think of it like tvz when you are willing to sit for a second and make a couple of sacrificial attacks NOT S****DAL attacks just enough to pull the carriers around while you maybe get a nexus or some of their workers. and if you defeat their saved up ground army they were using to get to carriers you can cut tanks and get valkyries form 2 ports instead. remember that zerg used to refuse to build queens to deal with mass tanks in tvz and now its the go to
I used to play broodwar when it was released for maybe 10 years. And I'm sorry to say but most things in your videos are only small variations of what players used to do over 2 decades ago. But love your channel and love what you're doing. Watching your videos makes me want to take up broodwar again 😁
This wraith build is turning out to be really cool! The middle of the road approach is nice as well, the Terran actually has units to defend in early game!
I feel like I have definitely seen JYJ building 1 wraith like that with some frequency a few ASL ago. It completely shuts down reaver drop and even if they don't go reaver drop you can still scout with the wraith. Before people just lifted off the starport half the time anyway.
I have a similar memory, maybe 2-3 ASLs ago during his championship run. He did use alot of unorthodox build that run, or maybe im mixing him with Royal. Probably should rewatch those 2 seasons games for those 2 players. Alot of gems in those runs.
Thanks for sharing a great late game match. Watching the slow carrier ball struggle to move decisively around makes me ask: why don't toss build multiple arbiters and use them to recall carriers offensively and defensively around?
I think Dewalt made a huge mistake not properly macroing up more with his ground army to protect the carrier transition and cut the gol/tank, the other side is that Scan just outplayed him and had a really efficient build/better micro/counters. Still a great match.
He's made huge improvements but I think he still needs to train. Also shows how rusty/out of date Flash is that Dewalt beat him, Dewalt's a great player and all but nothing like Snow. Could you imagine if one of them coached him though? Lol.
I wonder if anyone in the Americas has Starlink internet and if latencies are playable in Korean servers with that service. Part of the original pitch of Starlink was ultra low latencies for high volume trading
Man, the Wraith was always so cool, it's a shame it was kindof only a cheese thing back in the day if you caught someone with an early cloaked Wraith and you mind-game them into gg'ing.
So Valkries don't do damage to Interceptors!?! Wow! That is a shocking fact to learn. Wish you could show us a short slowmo taking us through it. I still say Goliaths are good, but Wraiths is the answer to Carriers.
You're right. I am shocked about the walks. My dumbass thought: why are people not hold positioning 6 valks over their tanks and army and just rek all the interceptors. Now I know... Shame
game feels like it's converging toward WC3 with a lot more spells. so wild predictions: in a few years we'd see people use ghost with lockdown and it'll be microed perfectly, to catch the carriers from flying away from the goliath
Ghost is not efficient enough in terms of time investment to be a viable counter to anything. It's not a matter of it being impossible to git gud at using it, it's that by the time you can get cloak and lockdown out on a ghost (and you need both, cloakless ghosts are not real) it's already way too late to do anything.
@@dewinmoonl it's an interesting thought but queens and dark archon come from tech you already have late game vs the covert ops + the discussed to death drawbacks of ghosts. Who knows though"
i thought terran were building wraiths at high levels so they didn't need to deal with snow's reaver play. i don't watch that often but it's probably a little reductive to give flash all the credit for this one
Arbitter statis for these large goliath groups would have been so good, gives time to kill the tanks, so the gate units can properly support the carriers
It is, but in what game are you gonna get 6+ BC with energy for Yamato and strong core mech army ? Only on an islan/semi island map or a map like Vermeer, where there is a gas base on every square inch of the map :)
I don't get this why don't they focus the carrier unit itself? The amount of time the goliaths survive while hitting interceptors it would seem they could kill at least 1 or 2 carriers or at least put 1 or 2 of them on red. If he kills a carrier instant 8 interceptors are killed or after a few fights all of the carriers would be on red and he could kill them all slowly. It seems better than trying to starve the protoss out of minerals. (no need to hate only asking)
Cloaked wraiths surprise attacks are gonna have to become the new meta against carriers. There's no way terran players can let themselves get bullied by carriers forever.
@@dj_koen1265 Even unstacked wraiths could catch carriers by surprise man. I'm sure 24 wraiths beat 12 carriers. They'd basically one shot em one after the other.
Because its really hard to do - most of the time the Carriers are over impassable terrain, are running away towards impassable terrain or if they are in range its mostly tip range, so only a couple of Goliaths can actually reach them from the whole pack. Thats why its better to actually move Gols back out of Carrier range if you can, so they dont get targeted and then target the interceptors. In some cases when the protoss makes a mistake and moves the Carriers over to some flat open area of the map and they get caught by a Goliath group then you can see the Terran starts stutter stepping the Goliaths and shooting the Carriers themselves and usually takes down at least 2-3, maybe even 4-5 if you have like a a full group. And usually wins the game off that. Most people dont realize, but on paper Goliaths are super cost effective vs Carriers - 1 fully decked out Carriers is 550/350 (900 total resources) with all interceptors build vs s 100/50 (150 total) Goliath, making it 1 Carriers = 6 Gols for the same money. So if you have 48 Gols vs the 8 Carriers Dewalt had in this game, you can choose whatever tactics you want with them (shoot at the interceptors, chase the Carriers or shoot the Carriers themselves) and you will smash them no matter what, hell you can 1a,2a,3a,4a and just watch and if the Carriers dont escape they will loose. The whole problem is that Protoss has a much better economy and you have to deal with a big ground army at the same time as Terran and you usually cannot pinpoint the exact moment the Carrier switch is starting. Hope this makes sense. edit: Also its alot harder to find an already injured Carrier and retarget it like the guy above me said.
like how its always the pros that get credit for things ive legit played against ppl in d-c tier that attempted to do this stuff awhile ago but of course c-d tier so not 'good enough' but the same idea over-all
It does almost nothing vs Carriers and Artosis explains it why. Even if you hit 100 EMPs, if you cannot hit the Carriers themselves it does nothing, literally. And most top protosses wont allow you to target their Carriers for more than a split second or so, unless they fuck up which rarely happens.
Why would you even siege the tanks when you see a legion of zealots running to you? The first volley will not kill them all and the second will kill your tanks. Why not keep the tanks moving, kitr the zealots an eliminate them that way? Not to mention such grouped tanks are also a paradise for psy storm. I am no pro but I would have never sieged that amount of tanks and just rolled around with them.
I guess in late game their attention is so split up in 10 different places so he probably either forgot or didnt have time to micromanage the battle and said: fuck it, if they die, they die :)
@@stambe8605 That might be, yes :) However in other games when there is just one front I see f.ex. Flash do the same and each time he looses 90% of the tanks or all of them. Shuttle drops of Zealots would also be innefective if the tank unsieged at least partially.
@@czolgistta If its just one front and you dont siege, tanks have the uncanny ability to clump like a motherfu*ker. And then you will die not to zlot bombs, but to Reavers/Storm or will just get outdps-ed by the mass Goons. If the army supply is even and they dont have splash and Terran does not have good Turret/Goliath anti air support it makes sense to leave half the tanks unsieged, but dont quote me on that, im not sure either. Maybe someone else who experimented with that tactic can shed some experience.
To be fair not hating on your statement but i haven't played the game in 15+ years picked it back up recently and immediately ran with the Goliath wraith combo running double fac double Sp
Would really like to see a 2nd wraith - double the dps for low cost investment - that shuttle would've been toast and scan was floating the resources to afford one
