Wrath Has Changed More Than You Think... | WoW Classic 

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/factor75_willemmo and use code POGWILLEOCT50 for 50% off your first box!

4 years ago i just said: "well lets see if classic rly is as good as ppl say" and so i did. i Joined a Guild in Classic became an officer and later in AQ 40 the Raidlead without prior knowledge or exp in Leading a Raid. We managed to clear NAXX but above all: We had fun......we still have fun. PPL left and new PPL joined in TBC but we cleard SWP and moved on to Wotlk. And now 4 years later we are on our way to Kill LK and we will but above all WE HAVE SO MUCH FUN. Its kinda crazy that with all the ppl leaving and new ppl joining that a BIG reliable Core of about 15 ppl are Playing in our Guild since classic. Its such a great Game and i enjoy the Time in my Guild so much.

I wish I could just take Wrath class design and put it in Vanilla. Viable hybrid dps specs. Ret paladin with actual dps buttons. Casters that do more than press the same spell over and over. I think one of the reasons Warrior is so crazy popular in Vanilla, aside from being numerically the best class obviously, is they are just plain more involved than other specs. I'd say my Vanilla warrior feels similar in complexity to my Wrath hunter. But I like all of the things Vanilla does. A bigger focus on the journey. Having a main character. Focusing on preparation rather than execution.

Wrath will always hold a special place in my mind but playing classic hc, being mid 30 in age I greatly appreciate the more simple and slower paced "journey" it provides

tbc is was better than wotlk

When I was first playing vanilla, I thought expansions would just add more content to the existing world. I guess I was naive. I didn't realize it would shoehorn us into different and smaller continents

Having played them so close back to back now…I prefer classic. The world is so much more alive and it’s own character. More of it is used versus everyone being in Outland or Northrend.

i hope we get classic+

Started playing hardcore recently and I’m really liking it. I agree that both versions have their own purpose. I play Wrath as well mainly for the end game dungeons and raiding, and classic vanilla when I want a more relaxed, immersive experience

After watching these videos, I think what appeals the most to people in vanilla classic is the entire world stays relevant throughout the entire expansion. Even when Naxx came out, the rest of the world was still relevant. Other quests took you into the other zones, there were enemies to farm for specific mats, etc. Older dungeons would often have 1-2 items for each class that were so good, they were worth going back into. TBC had this as well with Gruul's Dragonspine Trophy. There's no need to get super tryhardy over it. It's not that kind of game. This game was popular BECAUSE it didn't appeal to the super hardcore. There was plenty to do, even for the most casual of players.

Been loving Classic Era for months now.

I got whiplash when you revealed that classic has been out for 4 years

It's actually unbelievable how many times Willie can upload the same video saying the same thing and get away with it xD

tbc was the perfect balance between vanilla and wrath i will die on this hill edit: flying also rules, thank you

What was the message in this video or the reason for its existance? I watched it but i cant tell for the live of me

playing vanilla at nighttime doesnt fuck up my sleep compared to other games because its so calming

Hope we get classic+ and cata I love both versions of the game

I want tbc fresh lol let the era characters get copied over again id rather just keep the rotation while waiting for classic + content. Why get rid of the old stuff just have a server for every expansion

I started in Classic 2019. Loved it. Played 100s days on my warlock. My only character. Then TBC came out. I made a Tauren Shaman. Played TBC from lvl 1 horde to 70. Had a blast, loved it. WOTLK came out, I played 1 month with my Shaman and left. Wrath wasn't the game I was playing before. Something was different... Now back on Classic HC waiting for Classic+ ! Great video btw!!

Lifes tough as a guy who enjoys Classic, Wrath, and Retail... Wish I could just settle on one of them lol

- Retail for story (but I really dislike the story now, so I'm not there) - Classic HC for gameplay - Wrath for both (but I'm addicted to HC at the moment, so on a break)

i really enjoyed classic, i hope we get classic plus.

There were some recent leaks that said there will be no Cata Classic, that blizz stops at Wrath.

Vanilla and wrath need to have a baby. Good leveling experience and good end game

I have played both versions a lot… honestly i was disappointed in Wotlk. The open world is completely deserted except for bots, it’s just a raid logging simulator. People afk in dala until raid, min/max like hell then log off. Vanilla is a real MMO… there is so much more to do, so much interaction with the open world 😍

Classic + is inevitable. People are completely done with retail…. Two things will happen: 1) ‘wow 2.0’ as in a merger between retail and classic in a weird ‘reboot’ extra expansion kind of thing (taking the game back to MUCH simpler gameplay) 2) a true classic + type of thing

I played towards the end of BC and really got the hang of things in wrath. I’m playing classic now for the first time ever but also downloading wrath because it was my jam.. I want to try it before they move onto cataclysm. Classic will always be there.

Playing Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK was probably the most fun I've ever had playing video games. I find making the journey fun and exciting is so much better than rushing to max lvl and throw epic gear at you for basically free. To this day playing wotlk levelling together with friends is one of the most fun things for me, I just love the feeling adventure and slow progress, no need to rush anything.

Funny enough, I left original WoW in Wrath and came back for a sneak peak in Cata. And enjoyed it for a few months, never raided in OG Cata though… So I’m tempted to repeat history !

You failed to mention the most important change to Wrath and the reason I can't get myself to play it: WoW token...

I've said it many times if WotLK is Classic so is Cata, which means that if people don't like Cata, they shouldn't like WotLK. Why? Cata is WotLK+, it literally polished everything in WotLK. The class design peaked in Cata all the way until SL and DF. The dungeon and raid design and complexity reached new heights at the time in Cata, which was a goal that WotLK didn't have time to achieve, even though Ulduar and ICC were more complex than anything before them. The PVP also peaked in Cata. Then we also got much better leveling in both 1-60 and 80-85, the best at the time and the last time we got non-endgame leveling content. Cata polished the tabard rep system, the badges turned into justice/valor which was better, along with the raid group sizes and difficulties being equated was great, more glyphs, better gems. The talents were finally great, but I do think they missed their chance to level squish down to 60, but I guess it wasn't seen as a problem back then. Cata also had endgame open world content in the form of the motlen front. Itemization was finally done perfectly. And then there were many great additions like reforging, void storage and for those who like to devalue armor transmog. Whatever WotLK did Cata did much better, except it didn't have a raid tier in 4.1 and LFR was a poor replacement for 10 man Normal Raid in WotLK(easy raid difficulty).

I really want to see classic +. Cata wasn’t a bad expansion, but it was undeniably the start of the decline. To be fair anything trying to come in behind wrath was going to suffer. Truthfully what I want to know is the changes to Cata in retail going to be in Cata classic.

Vanilla definitely has a better "world" experience. Wotlk is better in just about every other way though. Wotlk systems in a reimagined Vanilla could be interesting.

Classic is perfect to me, but for one thing. I don't see why we can't improve player models/customisation/transmogs and stuff. This is stuff that was a technical limitation at the time and no longer is. Why not just make it look good and allow us to change clothes? That's all. That's literally the only change.

Classic era foreverrrrr

I was playing during the original WotLK and classic, I had no desire to repeat the Loremaster achievement again because during the original I didn't use any add-ons..

The problem with vanilla classic is the class balance. In wotlk every spec is viable in raids which is more fun from a raiding/end game perspective and there are less meme specs.

Classic hands down, but really looking forward to cata dungeons and raiding.

I have a lot of fun in wrath. But I probably had the best time ever during classic and even more during Season of Mastery

Wouldn't it be lovely for them to go all out for classic + like after classic + they implement all the dropped ideas from tbc for tbc + same with wrath they had so many great ideas which were cut in the end. Tbh I just wanna see the Gundrak Wotlk raid shit looked so promissing

I havnt played wow since 2009. I played from launch till then. I came back to wow about 2 weeks ago. To try SOD.. and im having a blast. Have a 34 undead priest. As ive always played a healer class as my main. Its era with a twist. Love it.

Server wipes would be the next best way to keep classic going.

I want TBC. Whether that be SoM or just TBC era. I know that may be a minority opinion but I think it's better than both Vanilla and WOTLK for different reasons but generally because the end game for both is boring compared to TBC. WOTLK is the expansion of the raid logger, Vanilla is the game of the tedious gear grind, world buff collecting and organization hell just to tank and spank bosses. TBC had attunement grinds for sure, but I actually don't mind it and the raids are more interesting while gearing is fairly straightforward. There's also a ton of things to do in TBC rep wise if you're bored to the point I'm constantly returning to Outland in WOTLK to maybe grind for a tabard or the netherwing mounts whereas nothing like that exists in WOTLK or Vanilla.

I think the changes made in Wrath have overall been more positive than negative. The titan runes are excellent, for one. I just want more variety overall. Vanilla shills are annoying though. They make the same tired arguments about muh journey. I like Vanilla, but it's all so tiresome to hear them shill for Vanilla. You don't want Vanilla, you want the feeling of your youth back when you could play WoW all day with no responsibilities.

Granted we didn't have JJ back in original Wrath, we had RAF which I would much rather. 50% bonus is pittance in comparison to 300% + hourly summon + an additional month of game time + mount / pet limited to RAF monthly rewards.

I stopped playing Wrath, not because of any inherent problems but because my guild didn't have enough raid spots. I was really enjoying it. But wow, Hardcore really has been so much fun.

I hope they Re-do this Cycle of Classic - TBC - Wrath. Big Money Maker with little Effort.

Hoping the crowd chants classic+ for the boys back home

No Flame, but was is the essential message of the video?

I'm all for senseful QoL-improvements but I'm also deeply convinced, that excessive automatism like the DungeonBrowser, account-bound semi-boost items for your twinks & account-bound achievements etc. being recently introduced in Wotlk paved the way for today's WoW retail, which is wideley known as a soulless game...and might be one of the main reason why so many veterans moved to Classic 2019 in the first place. Especially with regard to the DungeonBrowser: Communication has always made a significant contribution to a better ambience. But now due to recent changes apathy is already becoming apparent e.g. people not greeting each other, & do whatever they want to etc. Again Blizz messed it up, again RPG is heading towards the abyss.

These outro with Wrath music make me so f-ing nostalgic, damn!

I’m really glad that they decided to keep vanilla classic. It’s nice knowing that old Azeroth is there to visit. I do think that they should keep WotLK era servers. Warmane attests to how timeless WotLK is

What do you think will happen, when Classic catches up to Retail? Two versions of the same game running side by side?

It is my dream that Blizzard implements classic + (not seasonal things like SoD) but expands on Vanilla such as with horizontal progression and class balance. The new content doesn't have to always be endgame stuff. People love releveling in classic, so that new content wouldn't even be "wasted." In a lot of ways, Classic + is what Old School Runescape already is. Just wish blizzard continued to develop classic.

Yeah there so many people saying that Cata killed wow they forget that a lot of things started happening in Wrath.

While WotLK is often seen as the pinnacle of Classic WoW, these recent years have made me realize that it feels a lot closer to Cataclysm than to Vanilla and TBC. I still very much enjoy it, though I can already feel the change in priorities. Vanilla WoW was basically a vary naive project to simply create a fun RPG world, with many of the standard meta notions such as balance or quality of life not being too high on the priority list. TBC was more of the same, just with the biggest issues (and perhaps also the biggest accomplishments) stemming from this ignorance/innocence being fixed, but in WotLK there has clearly been a conscious shift in moving these notions and metrics to the top priority. That shift I feel is the biggest difference between Classic and Retail WoW.

I just want them to phase the map. “Classic” at least 50% refers to the original map. They should introduce “prepare for deathwing” quests that have you complete a dozen or so of the og vanilla quests, and when you turn in the “prepare” quest, you see deathwing enter the zone and change it. Then you can level the new zone

'Body Types', the WoW Token, and RDF = /gamequit Back to Classic Vanilla and BC if we get it again.

Classic

it did not change more than anyone thought the devs made changes themselves that drove people back to actual private classic wrath/tbc/vanilla servers people wanted classic, not the modern devs idea of what classic should be

Am i the only one that just wants classic + to be TBC-like in features? attunements in the old world, Heroic dungeons, more balanced classes?

I think it would be very cool to see Blizz do Classic+. Just like OSRS, I would like to see Classic be its own entirely separate development of WoW. The problem with Classic+ is deciding where to start. I think there's a big case for Vanilla+, but that would still likely feel like a big step back from TBC and Wrath and the improvement that those games made to the game. Keep in mind, Im not talking about Wrath Classic and all of the things that Blizz butchered this time around, but the original developments from 2008. Class and Talent improvements, core gameplay mechanics and systems, dungeons and raids, etc. It's more likely we just get Cata Classic, which I'm also ok with as I really liked the game and think the hate for it is overblown. Who knows what new ownership of the company will bring. They're already getting rid of Bobby Kotick, which was kind of a surprise but remains to be seen if they actually give a shit about the game or just want one of their own moneymakers in charge.

Give classic+ or a new expansion line that doesn't go into Cata. If we have to have cata, make it so you can swap into the old world and not force us into the changed world for the 1-60 experience.

the food ad fits every wow player lmao

I think real WoW nowdays is Classic 60 and Wrath, Retail isn't WoW anymore, so Blizzard should Delete Retail any focus and expand on the Classics.

There shouldn't be a cata classic. Wotlk was peak

Never got to play WoW back then because of the subscription. So I’m now experiencing the game for the first time. I’ve leveled a character to 30 in classic and 15 in wrath and have to say that classic is much more enjoyable as a first time player. Each zone is packed full of people and the hardcore mode makes the game more engaging.

Personally lvl 70 is wrong (from that C+ "leak") in a lvl 1-60 vanilla Azeroth and do NOT add flying to it. What can be done is maybe some class tweaks so it's not gonna be warriors and rogues reigns supreme. Boomkins some mana reg, same for shadow priests etc without going too crazy with the changes. Things like that. Just don't blindly trust them. Remember what they said during blizzcon announcing classic "we want to reproduce the authentic game as it were then" bs and look what we got for Classic version: Level boost, able to make 55 DK on a fresh account and above all, f-ing wow token! I'll stay sceptical optimist at best. Ohh and ofc good video. Over 82k views under 2 weeks. Well done and gratz! 1) I will play "Classic+" if they do it right. But if they are even thinking of adding level boost and especially wow token, HARD pass! Maybe that's why they charge 50 bucks, hence no token? 2) For the love of God if they add High Elves (BEs) please update the bow animation to newer one. Was a big welcomed change later on. Old animation is aweful. A simple toggle would work. 3) Scarlet Monastery raid. Considering how popular SM dungeons have always been. Fill the empty and unfinished areas with content. Many places on the world map to add more. 4) If they will add housing which was a plan for Vanilla back in the days, don't make it like in WoD. Last thing we need is "empty" servers where people sit in their houses and "farm/craft" all day. I was one of those players who quit WoW Classic Wrath when they added the token. Also spread the word that this years Blizzcon will be FREE to stream and that has been confirmed. Lastly, it won't be that long until Classic bypasses Retail's numbers (unless they keep f-ing it up with the monetization like wow token etc, has NO place in classic/vanilla!).

Isles of conquest needed special venders like wintergrasp

If you're enjoying ICC, that doesn't mean you'll like Bastion of Twilight or BWD. Those raids are brutal. They are "stack 11 feral druids in your 25m" brutal, in terms of how they were on launch for Nefarion.

Wow classic hardcore > wow classic era > wow classic wrath > wow retail

Personally, I love both. But I find myself playing Wrath a bit more and enjoying it for the reasons mentioned in the video. I feel like Wrath is in a good spot in terms of QoL, features, etc. But I do enjoy some vanilla as well :)

Classic is a 10/10 adventure, wrath is raid logging, then raid logging, oh you can go out in the open world and find a bunch of stuff that you cant use at your level sure. Or a mount to log out on.

If Cata Classic drops the talent tree change, I'll probably play it. But if they keep the change, wrath will be my game.

No arenas an terriblr class balance kills classic for me sadly

I enjoy both, having lfd back is nice. Being a first shifter on the east coast and trying to find an early raid group is a challenge.

Have to defend tbc a bit here - mainly in that a lot of what took away the world in tbc was down to us progressing from classic rather than having fresh realms. The early game economy which then affects farming, dungeon runs, world pvp and how many people even have a flying mount was all destroyed by everyone having potentially tens of thousands of gold from classic. As for class design, i know to you its an awkward inbetween but to me its a perfect inbetween. Could use a few small tweaks but i think its great. You actually venture into kalimdor and EK for raids/dungeons at least in kara, CoT and ZA unlike wotlk where you just dont besides ony i guess. Preference thing though, admittedly.

Blizzard and it’s fan base are so split between what is good and what isn’t it’s hilarious.

Seems to be a common misconception that people wanted vanilla because "nostalgia." Therefore, it makes sense to just re-release all the following expansions, including all the overhauls. But people don't just like vanilla for nostalgia, we like it because it's fun. The later expansions aren't. I never played WoW until classic released in 2019. I tried the retail version after getting addicted to classic and didn't find it fun. I quit when TBC came out and picked it back up when SoD came out.

Leveling as a tank has been not so good, you can tell the people who come from retail who dont know how to control their aggro X_X

Wrath of the raid log

The TLDR is that vanilla is definitely much more relaxing and enjoyable to play in leisure. Endgame wise, playing these eras are fun because you just min max absolutely everything and see how hard you can destroy a boss or exploit a resource. - at least that’s my pov as someone whose played since 05, and on retail as well as private servers since 2014. Stopped retail in BFA and never looked back

Something people tend to forget is WoW has eras, and each era continuously evolves. Even if we look at their original releases, people like to say Cata is retail when it's so far from the truth it's a lie to say so. 1) Vanilla-WotLK were a single era, expanding on top of itself and making more things useable as time goes on (Frost mage in Cata comes to mind) 2) Cata-WoD began an inclusive playstyle to bring viability to all specs in one form or another rather than being supplemental though the MoP talent system was a disappointment 3) Legion-SL was most notably the borrowed power era where the game became unrecognizable initially but the new norm, though not widely accepted for its problems. They were mostly accepted in Legion because we didn't 100% know at the time this would be the new norm. 4) Dragonflight begins the new era of WoW where we see a mix of old and new, a step back from the cosmic the series has been going towards, focusing on things happening on Azeroth and the people in it. The game restructured itself to play like the WoW we've most recently known, and have the systems of past return in full force. The expansive, detailed and very customizable talent tree that lets you build you the way you want, just like it used to be And I say this with how many people fail to realize, modern WoW is an evolving thing and no single point in time. WotLK wasn't what began modern WoW, neither was Cata, nor MoP or any other expansion, they simple evolved the series where the 3rd era was the least favorable with horrid storytelling, cosmic storytelling that felt out of place, characters poorly written and borrowed power creating systems and new abilities that would not return. Sure SOME borrowed powers stuck around but others are stuck back in their time.

As someone who’s memories of wow start at the end of wrath, and who always wanted to kill the “big dragon” (I now know is named Dearhwing) that I watched my dad do many times, I’m mainly looking forward to cata to do the things younger me couldn’t. Lots of the friends I’ve made have stated that they’re quitting after Wrath so I’m not sure if I would have continued on otherwise

PLAYED WOW so long my memories of the people that I once played with are fading away. many i cant even remembers their names... Soon will i forget my own......

Decided to reroll on world and level a rogue and it’s so fun right now

TBC>Wrath

Growth > Peak. Peak just means you stop gaining new players, thus TBC is the real king.

I miss #NoChanges

Peronsaly i have been enjoying era a lot since summer, the feeling of starting fresh, the feeling of trying a new class, progressing trough the raid tiers at a new formed guilds own pace, experiencing the raids and bosses that i didnt get to do before tbc hit. But i will say after roughly 6 months of it i am starting to feel the crushing weight of farming for consumes every week, especially with the bot economy spiraling up again. On the other hand my guild since classsic have started raiding wrath again, and its fun to do these raids which i also havent done before. The inclusion of the gamma dungeon mechanic has made it possible to get 25 man loot which previously was considered unobtainable cause we only really do 10man raiding. The nature of how we get tier in ICC has given people a reason to log in again, and personally i have finally gathered the strength to actually level some of the level 70 alt army.

You THINK you don’t want Cataclysm Classic…but you DO!

WoW HC Classic teached me how far WoW evolved from its origin.... in a bad way.

I think it’d be interesting if blizz would make cata into an 80-100 journey this time around. Keep vanilla in the game, don’t change talents, just have players come back to a cataclysmed world after they’re done with wrath, of course bring zoridormi around all the major cities just so you can go back and see. I would be completely fine just going back through every single expansion in order if blizz would work them into the game instead of just pasting content on top of the old.

Wrath had the best class design

What I was looking forward to in Wrath was the pvp, but that part just wasn't fun this time around. Barely anyone seemed to play it for the sake of enjoying it.

It's funny, back during Classic launch or TBC, people would laugh at you for thinking Classic Cata would be a thing. A vast majority were of the opinion that Wrath is the final destination. Now people are hyping Cata constantly.

The difference is that one is classic, and the other just isnt.

Its interessting that you especially mention "one tap mining" as a quality of life improvement" over vanilla. You see, you cant share it nomore.

Mr. Chris Metzen ! Please give us Vanilla Plus ! With no GDKP and RMT !

Lets stay where we are now