I've subbed to your channel thanks to this video. Regarding the suicide scene at 23:45 ish, there's a famous scene almost exactly like that in Leipzig, where they found the Mayor, his wife and his daughter dead by suicide in his office. I think some other party members and their families also killed themselves nearby IIRC.
@ReelHistory no problem, if you Google image search Alfred Freyburg some of the photos of real life scene can be seen. It's very similar to the one in the film IIRC (wooden panelled office, two people dead on a couch etc)
22:30 My Grandfather served as a supply truck driver in the British army and a similar kind of thing used to happen there too. His unit was attacked once during the Market Garden campaign and put up one hell of a fight because half the truck drivers had Brens or similar with them rather than their issued weapons.
Fury came out 10 years ago!?! Fury takes a lot of deserved heat from critics, especially the ending. I personally loved the movie. Specifically the interaction between the characters. Great breakdown, gents. Thanks. Looking forward to the full breakdown.
@@wattsnottaken1, they were taken down unfortunately but The Pacific 2.0 is in the works and will be released incrementally this spring--and with a special guest!
Former US Army tanker here! The banter between the crew is spot on how we all talked to each other. At some point or another you all end up discussing every subject under the sun. You spend that much time together confined in a tiny space and you learn EVERYTHING about each other wither you want to or not. Also loved that they captured that slight reverberation inside the tank whenever you speak, the sound just kind of bouncing off the walls so to speak. The movie also does an amazing job of showing how utterly terrifying and destructive a tank can be, but also how vulnerable they can be too. Always loved this movie!
That is exactly what Nicolas "The Chieftain" Moran said. From the historical perspective the movie is not accurate at all but when viewed as a story about a tank crew it's brilliant.
I’ve also read vets say they liked Germany best because the Germans were more like Americans than the rest of Europe, the Germans usually had flush toilets.
Yeah my favorite scene from the movie Fury is when they had one of the best military bonding scenes I've ever seen when they dubbed him MACHINE!!!! I served in the US Army in a multiple launching rocket artillery Battalion and I know that camaraderie very well.
15:00 Generally speaking yeah, although one of my all time favourite photos from WW2 is of a British airborne soldier at Arnhem. As he's being marched off into captivity, a German photographer takes his photo, just as he is raising two fingers to the camera (the British hand gesture that means an invitation to f*** off). He was still alive until just a few years ago.
That was Lt Jack Reynolds - he was in command of No.1 Mortar Platoon, 2nd (Airlanding) Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment, so they were glider infantry rather than paratroopers. The photo image was taken by Kriegsberichter Jacobsen of PK Zug 5 Luftflotte 3, and Reynolds says he says he saw the stills photographer standing next to the film camera (there's a film clip showing the same incident) just grinning at all the prisoners being marched past and decided to give the grinning goon a two-fingered 'Agincourt salute' and it was caught on both cameras. I believe he tells this story in person on a RU-vid video, but I don't know offhand which one. The very next frame in the sequence shows the same group of prisoners looking somewhat exhausted resting on the steps of the Arnhem Museum building before being moved on to the final collection point at the Musis Sacrum concert hall on 19 September. These images are in a book I have a reprinted copy of, the coffee table style photo study book Kampfraum Arnheim by Harlan Glenn and Remy Spazzano (2013, 2023), which was changing hands for ridiculous prices secondhand and beyond my means until they reprinted it last year, but even at the cover price I still blew half my book budget for 2024 getting hold of a copy in February! The photos are fantastic and the research done for the captions is also very good and opened up a few new lines of enquiry for my continuing MARKET GARDEN research.
@davemac1197 you're right, silly mistake, I'll correct that. I was briefly in touch with the family for a few years before he died, he was a wonderful man. I did some comparison photography when I visited Arnhem in 2014 of both the salute and steps photo
@@neilholmes8200 - awesome that you were in touch! The book has the photograph film roll serial and frame numbers and those two images are 34a and 35a from the same roll serial.
@davemac1197 yeah I'm lucky enough to have a copy too, my Dutch friend had one when I first visited and I thought it was so awesome that I bought a copy online for about 30 quid iirc when I got home
You didn’t need to smuggle them home, you just needed an officer to sign off to ship captured enemy weapons home. Again this info is from a veteran who had a nice collection.
Willy Pete is banned against human targets. Buildings and equipment only. At least that’s what they taught in artillery school. 2013-2019 13B Cannon Crew-member, 101st Airborne Division.
This was a fun movie. Enjoy your guys work. There’s always something to learn. Keep up the great work. There were things Fury got wrong regarding WWII armor tactics but the studio was pressing for more action and kept interjecting a lot of truth by common knowledge regarding Sherman but there were things they got right and the character journey was engaging. While there is a lot wrong about the Tiger engagement tactics and battle doctrines of each side, no one can deny that it’s a cool fight and let’s face it seeing all those historical artifact tanks roaring around in a theatrical fight was joy to watch. That said it is annoying watching Tiger service the last tank in the line first. Allied and Axis combat doctrine was to shoot the lead vehicle first then the vanguard last. Still holds true today. Considering that there is only one functioning Tiger in the world you can forgive the inaccuracy of a Tiger I operating alone. Let alone that Tiger I was pretty much phased out by this point in the war. Still cool to watch. It would have been nerve wracking filming thet scene hoping nothing goes wrong with an irreplaceable historical artifact. The rounds ricocheting off of the ground was nice to see. Regarding tracers, that is what it looks like. It was not overdone or over stylized. I loved that the projectile impacts were depicted with a shower of sparks. When footage of fire fights were televised on the news during Gulf War I people made the comment that it looked like Star Wars. They were surprised by the mass incendiary effects from explosions.😂
My grandfather which served as part of Comm Group North Africa, Italy, and Sicily during WWII told me he had several Luger pistols, a few helmets, some German medals, and lots of watches. He unfortunately said he believed his command which said that hiding the weapons in your sea bag would be a court martial event. As such, He off loaded all of his pistols. He said after he got back to the states. The whole searching of their sea-bags was BS and he knew several of his buddies which brought homes LOTS of GUNS. that was his biggest regret other than loss of his eldest and youngest brothers- 14th Armored France KIA - Earl Gilbert and Kenneth Gilbert 82nd Airborne Gliders Normandy - D-Day.
Both my grandfather served in the US Army in World War II my grandfather on my paternal side served with the 452nd Anti-Aircraft Battalion and my grandfather on my maternal side served with the 598 Field Artillery reg😂iment 92nd Infantry Division in Italy. Plus my great-uncle on my paternal side was a Montford Point Marine and he fought in the Battle of Peleliu and Okinawa as well as fighting during the Korean War.
Fury is excellent if for nothing else showing what a panzerfaust does to a tank. That scene was terrifying. A family friend was riding on the top of a tank hit by one, was burnt badly and lost part of his foot requiring amputation.
In the encounter with Tiger 131, the commander would not have moved out in the open and he would have targeted Fury as the biggest threat with it's long barreled 76mm and the 76mm was capable of defeating the frontal armor of the Tiger at around 500 meters and certainly on it's side armor.
Not necessarily. For example Wittmann at Villers Bocage. At the beginning he saw 2 Tanks, a Cromwell and a Firefly, the Cromwell being the last vehicle. Wittmann shot the Cromwell first and after that the Firefly. Meanwhile was he moving out of cover. The Tiger in this movie is alone behind enemy lines. Maybe he expected some more allied troops coming and he wanted to copy Wittmanns attack. It is a common misconception that the Germans ALWAYS shot the leading Tank or the Tank with the biggest gun first. After DDay it was a recommendation to shot the last tank first to prevent the following tanks to use it as cover or to pop smoke and disappear. And last but not least, the 75mm Sherman is as dangerous as the 76mm Sherman because he can shot smoke...the 76 couldn't. Smoke shells for the 76mm gun weren't developed during WW2. WP was really helpful against tanks. AND it was commonly used as a marker for artillery, nearby planes or spotters. We, the audience know that these 4 Tanks operate alone. But the Tiger Commander couldn't. Where is Sherman Nr. 5 (he couldn't know it was destroyed before)? Is a artillery spotter (plane) nearby? Any enemy Infantry nearby? By destroying the last tank he denied the others a obstacle that they could use as cover, he prevented them from retreating and he killed a tank that could have marked him... And then the movie ruined it by let the 76mm gun fire a smoke shell...
I am a World War 2 historian, so to speak. I love Brad Pitt and his films but...there is something wrong with this film. Even having the last fully functional Tiger 2 tank in the World. It doesn't have the heart and depth of Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. Did they miss the mark? Is it me? Or was their aim just off. I know the answer I want to hear your responses. The heart just isn't present.
I personally love this movie, warts and all. I won't pretend to be an historian, per se, just an enthusiast, so I can't speak to any of the more in depth errors or flaws, and it certainly ain't no Saving Private Ryan, but for what it is I think it's deeply enjoyable. Got me very into building Sherman tank models for quite a while afterwards. I think there's value in historical movies that aren't necessarily accurate, as long as it gets people interested in the real history, for example, Braveheart, or Pearl Harbor. I saw both of those movies when I was quite young, and I've learned since how wildly inaccurate they are, but both movies got me very interested in the subject matter and learning the real history
I can say I like the crew and the dynamics, and would wish for even more focus on them. However, this movie doesn't have "the feel" of the Second World War. Characters and their behavior just isn't representative of a US Army soldier in 1945. Even the look of the men and equipment, sometimes it's more Mad Max than WW2, everyone is so dirty, rags instead of uniforms... Disregarding all the inaccuracies and illogical scenarios, and there are many, it doesn't convey the spirit of the era in my opinion. This is what Band of Brothers and the Pacific did so well. Material inaccuracies in Band of Brothers don't matter because those guys on screen are conveying the right kind of spirit, emotion, outlook and demeanor.
Always thought this movie captured the tone of the last few months of the war perfectly. Dirty and exhausted American soldiers fed up fighting and dying to an enemy that refused to accept they had already been defeated. The dying feels even more tragic with the knowledge it is mere weeks before the fighting finally ends for good.
3:23 - "this movie does have historical flaws" - but you didn't pick up that the tank column is not observing much tactical spacing, if any. They're bunched up far too close, even if the shot involved some foreshortening of distances caused by the camera angle. The director could have used the foreshortening effect to get all four tanks in shot by using this angle, even if the tanks were obviously spaced properly. The other issue I have with 'Fury' is the two machine guns on the turret roof, one .50 cal and the other a .30 cal, definitely not standard or commonplace. I can only find a visual reference online (an artist's rendering on tanks-encyclopedia and not a single photograph) allegedly of Creighton Abrams' M4A3(76) E8 HVSS 'Thunderbolt VII' from May 1945, which may be where the filmmakers got the idea from. One of the annoying things about the Band of Brothers episode 4 attack on Nuenen sequence is that the British Shermans still have the .50 cal on the turret roof - these were removed by British Armoured Regiments to simplify their logistics and standardise on a single calibre of machine-gun ammunition, and the only general exception were the Royal Artillery OP tanks, which had dummy main armament and retained the .50 cal for protection. The Band of Brothers Shermans were probably the same ones they used for US 2nd Armored in episode 3: Carentan and repainted the markings for the British unit in episode 4, but they should also have removed the .50 cal. 20:05 - if I recall, the "commanding officer" was from an Armored Infantry unit that Fury's tank platoon was attached to for this particular operation. Captain Waggoner is played by a British actor, Jason Isaacs. If anyone didn't realise he was British, it's what Damian Lewis calls "acting". 22:15 - "guys using captured weapons" - absolutely not unusual to have a trophy like the StG. I recall one of the Fury crewmen had an M3 'grease gun', which was a standard issue, but supplementing or replacing the standard issue weapons with one or two trophies would be quite normal, especially in the latter stages of the campaign. According to Yves Bellanger's excellent book U.S. Army Armored Division 1943-1945: Organization, Doctrine, Equipment (2010), each tank crewmember was issued a sub-machine gun, and for the platoon commander a carbine replaced the SMG from 16 June 1944. British tank crews had just one Sten SMG for the tank. 27:25 - "What's the first thing we see the G.I.s doing when the fighting stops and they're in this town? They're all drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, talking to the local women..." - and yet British troops get criticised by our cousins for brewing tea whenever they stop? (Ref the inaccurate scene in A Bridge Too Far). Right... These films are always quite enjoyable, but they do often stretch credibility for dramatic effect. I found it quite incredible that an SS battalion (to take the opposing point of view) would expend their entire strength just to take out one American tank that was already disabled by a mine. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would simply by-pass it and continue with whatever their mission was. Tanks a lot guys, and guest!
About your last point, the SS Battalion against one Tank. Not the best Movie making scene, yes. But still, things like this happend. Do you know about the battle of Lanzerath Ridge? 18 US Soldiers of a reconnaissance Platoon and 4 artillery observers, dug in, 1 Jeep with a .50 cal and 1 .30 cal. Those 18 men were able to stop 500 Paratroopers that tried again and again to take their position frontally. Those 22 men were able to delay those forces for nearly 20 hours. By the way, the Germans were able to take the position after a experienced Staff Sergeant showed up and made them flank the US position. The Germans attacked 3 times frontally, head on, with heavy losses. So, this scene isn't that unbelievable.
Despite the inaccuracies I enjoyed this movie, there's not many movies souly on tankers so it was nice to finally get one especially one where it was clear the people who worked on it actually cared.
So my grandfather was in the 508th PIR, and a story relevant to this clip he told. He said when the were fighting in to Nijmegen, the Germans had placed an artillery piece in the basement of a building with a bore sight right down one of the roads out of one of those small windows. Every time I see the gun in the store front I can't help but remember that story.
During that battle the 2nd Battalion 505th PIR, led by Ben Vandervoort (played by John Wayne in The Longest Day) developed a technique of moving from house to house via the rooftops and then working downstairs to the German positions so they would be attacked from an unexpected direction. From the rooftops they could also fire down into German trenches in the streets and park areas, leaving the defenders no place to hide. All that assault course training to make the troopers unafraid of heights paid off!
I remember reading years ago that the ending fight was originally supposed to be a Volkstrum unit, which would perhaps explain why the tank doesn't immediately get blown up. But I supposed a final fight where children and the elderly get mowed down wasn't seen as appealing. Bit of a shame I suppose.
My Dad was in three of the major battles of WWll, The Battle of Northern France, The Battle of the Bugle, and The Battle of the Rhineland! I have a picture of him with a MP40, he was a sergeant, and he also carried his M1 Carbine and that MP40! He didn't talk much about the war but once and a while when we were watching Combat on TV! He would point out what Sgt, Saunders was doing that wasn't quite right! He said he could have had a Thompson but said it was too heavy and he was a really good shot! He brought back a couple of Lugers and P38 pistols and a lot of other SS stuff he got! I miss him so much! I found a bunch of pictures he took with a camera he got off a German! I have a lot of questions about the pictures and the German Kodak camera! I have the camera and it still works it's 35mm, I would like to ask him about it!
Also an interesting note not mentioned is Scott Eastwood's character wears a captured German Luftwaffe leather flight jacket with Sergeant's stripes sewn onto it, and even has an escape whistle running from the top breast pocket to the bottom waist pocket via a metal chain
this movie was SPR but based on a tank. "Hold this town against all odds" and the new guy was Upham. How does the SS officer keep his hat on while they are shooting him? Even when he falls he doesn't lose it.
"Ideals are peaceful. History is violent." Is a great place to stop. It's also one of my favorite lines. Americans tend to have an idealized perspective on the Western front. Our cause was certainly just, but the reality of our conduct less so. There's certainly was a theme of comparing the tank fury to the Germans. We see it as the only tank surviving the first scene. We see a tiger tank taking out three American tanks before being destroyed. In that scene you noted of what looked like the eighth Air Force flying over Germany you see a handful of German fighters desperately flying up to intercept them in what was essentially a suicide mission at that point. And then we have the end scene of fury destroying an entire battalion, which is essentially what Hitler expected his soldiers to do at the end.
Cracking movie, my sole concern was the manner that the German soldiers acted as they were assaulting Fury, I think we’re all aware of the Wehrmacht and it’s capabilities and skills yet here we have a battalion of grizzled soldiers who have no doubt spent the last six years in combat who suddenly revert to a walk directly into the sole enemy machine guns after trying to occupy the obvious position of the building and getting wiped out there also and it’s only after 10 minutes and hundred of slaughtered soldiers an officer has an idea that they should try flanking…😂😂😂
My great-grandpa brought a number of questionable souvenirs back from the war that grandma donated to a museum when he passed. A pistol, an SS knife, he even somehow got ahold of some sort of unit standard (shame I never got the chance to ask him the story behind that). He was damn proud of killing SS soldiers, so they were prized trophies for him. For grandma and her siblings ... they rather understandably did not want a bunch of Nazi memorabilia in their homes.
There are dozens of great war WW Two films and Fury had the potential to be one of them. I had high hopes. The awesome combat and the crew busting balls scenes were great. The rest was a real disappointment. Id like to see a show about classics like Patton, Attack!, The Big Red One or Battleground. Great video!
So to talk on Willie Pete and its use in modern terms. 1. Like Flamethrower and such, the weapon isn’t completely banned by the Geneva Convention but like flamethrower and napalm and such can only be used in areas of non residence by people and within I think it’s 6 miles of a population centre. 2. While media and story’s like to depict Willy Pete as this super flammable substance that can light everyone up underneath it quickly… not so much. Unless your using very concentrated amounts most it will do is severely irritate and slightly singe your clothing if it’s reactive, and unless you remain in it for an extended period of time you can pretty much walk away fine. - take into consideration most modern smoke grenades and grenade canisters used on US armoured vehicles are versions of willy pete themselves just less concentrated. Why use it? Well it creates a very thick and large smoke screen extremely quickly compared to standard smoke grenades. And in modern engagements, having the ability to get a smoke screen up in seconds to break contact with both enemy small arms or more importantly guided anti-tank weapons for vehicles, it’s a preferred choice. 3. One of the most recent uses of it in major combat was in the battle of Fallujha by the USMC. A tactic the marines came to use quite often on insurgent strong points was called “shake and bake”. The target building would be hit with several rounds of willy pete to irritate and choke out the insurgents inside the building into the open streets, at which point follow up rounds coming seconds after would be airburst HE rounds that would shred the now exposed insurgents. - to note there is controversy for the USMC using it with the UK and several coalition nations and press groups protesting and reporting that it was a War Crime for the US to use Willy Pete. Why is this? Well it mainly falls onto the fact that the US had a small coalition force of British troops from the Black Watch covering one of the escape routes from the city. As such due to the UK having signed the Geneva Convention - note the US like China and Russia never did - it would be considered a war crime to use it in their presence. To note having talked to guys who served in the BW at the time of the battle really have no quandary with its use, they understand why it was used and were quite fine with its use due to the need and circumstances. - in addition it’s pointed to by some that due to the presence of civilians still being in the city again it’s a war crime due to its use. However, the city and its civilian population were given 3 full days to clear out with full notice to the incoming attack alongside panthlets fully explaining that the city is being declared a fortress city (essentially loses its status as a civilian population centre) and that any men above the age of 10 who remain will be considered a hostile. In addition, they explained happily the type of force and firepower they were going to use to drive out the insurgents who owned the city. Even with this, reporters and journalists on learning that some civilians had refused to leave the city (note no coalition infantry or attacking forces are notified that civilians may still be inside the city) that because they were getting caught in the crossfire of the US strategy, it was the US just uncaringly committing warcrimes against civilians. - note I can actually go into some good detail on tactics the Insurgents used in the battle (note I never served in the military and nor served in this engagement, however have done my research into the battle and have talked and listened to veterans of it to understand what happened and the tactics used by both sides).
I know you guys cringe at the ending scene, but it's reminiscent of how Audi Murphy won his MoH award, alone, standing exposed on the back of his burning tank cutting down dozens of German infantry, halting their attack.
White phos ain't banned for use on personnel, especially if they're hiding in vegetation. Terrain denial. We used to do "shake n bake" fire missions with our mortars in Afghanistan. A round or two of HE and then a round of WP, and then a couple more rounds of HE and back to the WP and so on and so forth till target destroyed or they backed off.
You never want a tank to go first in an urban setting. They're way too exposed with all the possible hiding locations for anti-tank weapons. In a city with its speed and mobility limited, a tank isn't much more than a really expensive armored artillery piece. Very different from open fields and deserts where they can actually be vehicles with guns. You want infantry/scouts/skirmishers to make contact with the enemy and reveal their location, and then you bring the tank up to hammer their position. This is why the foot soldiers are slightly out in front of the tank on both sides.
Read Spearhead by Adam Makos. The last time I watched Fury I had to turn it off because it was disgusting. Not the accuracy of the stuff but the storyline
Hey you didn't mention that they commands are really authentic to WW2 The tank commander will ask for a specific type of shell. "HE" is high explosive. "AP" is armor piercing. "Willy Pete" is white phosphorus. The loader will retrieve this round from the ammo racks in the turret and load it into the tank's main gun. He will then yell "Up!" to let the tank commander and gunner know there is a live round loaded. The commander will give the order to fire "Fire!" and the gunner will yell "On the way!" so that the loader and commander know to stay clear of the recoil path. It is possible for the commander to let the gunner control the rate of fire, especially if he is also a platoon leader and has to coordinate the battle. The loader and gunner will still trade "Up!" and "On the Way!" to communicate with each other and keep everyone out of the recoil mechanism.
Our squad leaders used to carry a magazine full of only tracers so they could mark targets during daylight operations. My favorite scene of the movie is just before the LT dies in the ambush. The Fury crew is joking about the chocolate bar and then afterwards there is silence before they all just start laughing again. That entire scene is the essence of military humor and stress relief.
great stuff, you two! awesome to see this content. fury is a mixed bag for me as well. seeing those behind the scenes photos makes me wish they didn't go so drab on the color correction in the movie - perhaps a more naturally colored film coupled with the grim outlook of the movie could have been a nice contrast.
@@ReelHistory so he only planned to use it short-term? Keeping as a trophy is one thing, but versus an M3 which the battalion/regiment could more readily supply ammo for.
Remarkable thing Fury suggests is the friendly relationship US troops quicky established with the vast majority of German civilians (esp. the kids and female ones) once the shooting stopped.
there's a theory that the guy waving flag switched uniforms with the officer who was about to get shot. His expression when he points out the guy in uniform seems like he's conflicted/hesitating/lying on purpose.
Great episode I love this movie. It was somewhat realistic in many respects…got over the top in the end but yeah this is one of the better scenes! “ Ideals are peaceful, History is violent” one of the best lines ever…its happening right now .
11:30 So we are going to gloss over the probably Pak 40 which missed/ricochet at less than 15 yards? We all know that round would penetrated at any hit and would not have bounced. Plus these look like actual soldiers and not children which should not have missed. In short, Fury is dead here plain and simple without plot armor.
Wp is not banned as long as the use is legitimate against a military target. It has the same classification as every other munition as far as that goes.
You should look at a bridge too fare. I think it is overall pretty good, some minor inaccuracies, but really well done for 1977, plus all those real parachute drops.
I'm hopeful this channel will tackle A Bridge Too Far (maybe in September of this 80th anniversary year?), but if they do a good job it will disappoint a lot of subscribers in the US, based on past experience. Just consider the response the channel TIKhistory received for his excellent research on MARKET GARDEN in his original Battlestorm series on the "The REAL Operation Market Garden", and videos "Who to Blame?" and "Gavin wasn't to blame?" Probably the best update of Cornelius Ryan's book is Swedish historian Christer Bergström's two volume Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited (2019, 2020), using unpublished documents and interviews in the Cornelius Ryan Collection at Ohio State University and debunks the many myths contained in the film.
Uncle Lou served in the 28th ID, was wounded by sniper in the Hurtgen Forest, he died of old age with a German bullet in his back as it was too close to the spine they wouldn't chance to remove it. Uncle Del also served in the 28th, was involved in Operation Cobra, the Falaise Pocket, Hurtgren Forest and the Bulge. He was wounded three times awarded the Silver Star, we know he was captured twice during the Bulge but was able to get loose in all the confusion. Both told us that if you had a Luger on you when captured, the Germans would use it to blow your head off. We did the same thing. You let that stuff alone.
As long as Tom Sizemore isnt in it, i enjoy. I saw it in the theater when it was first released. A friend had seen it prior to me and while i didnt want to spoil it fir myself i did ask... do the tankers look like farmer? I wasnt disappointed. The stench must have been aweful in those tanks.
I fought in South Africa's border war in '83 and '84 in the artillery and on Ops Askari one of our gun tractors was hit by enemy artillery and white phos rounds that were in there exploded. A guy I was at school with was hit with the white phos and the burns were horrific. We tried to cover it with cloth but it just kept burning him so we eventually used engine oil to stop the white phos getting oxygen. We used to use it for target identification.
