@@LocsNLoadFirearmReviews, you have a BETTER idea and testing medium to suggest? Perhaps become a volunteer so we can all gain insightful knowledge? Yes?!?
@@LocsNLoadFirearmReviews But Gelatin Test is missing one thing, Hard material, Gelatin is good for simulating penetration of soft tissues, but not good for hard one, such as bones.
Great test! I have carried Federal HST 230 grain + P in my full frame Sig Sauer P 220 for years. 7 of us here in SLC, UT now carry the Underwood Extreme Defender 120 grain 45 caliber round. Five (including myself) have a full frame, and two carry a Compact 45 caliber pistol. It would be great to see a Paul Harrell type "meat test".
Lehigh Defense makes some fantastic ammunition. When I needed the best possible task-specific specialty round for green/blue-water maritime defense use (alligators, other aquatic threats), Lehigh's very own Pete V. worked with me for several days in order to work over usage and threat scenarios. We ultimately concluded the Xtreme Penetrator would best suit my needs, and they have been in my Walther PPQ M2 Navy SD ever since. I will soon be picking up some of the XD ammo. In a world of "gimmick" energy-dump frangibles and tried-and-true hollow points of olde, Lehigh Defense stands out as a reputable class of its own.
Great designs Lehigh. Positive reviews everywhere. I'm surprised other companies don't sell a high end non-deforming copper/brass projectile. Maybe they will after losing some of the hollow point market.
These are the most impressive rounds I've ever seen 👏. Some will hate & call this a gimmick, what in the you know what is gimmick about this . A round that avoids hollow point hiccups and performs way better than any I've ever seen personally..😳😉
To be fair, there are A LOT of gimmicks in the gun world. I didn't trust these bullets until I saw data on how they perform in actual tissue. I always kind of assumed they were made to perform well in gel and wouldn't transfer over to real tissue. However, then I saw this: drive.google.com/file/d/1Z6gdk_JdqKkYlUHqABWwb8Bh8dK2rHqo/view In that test, they shoot pig carcasses and then had surgeons and forensic pathologists examine the body. The XD bullets consistently outperformed all hollow points. I don't think there's any doubt left, the only thing holding this ammo back is cost.
That spiral! I purchased a .380 for my wife and was worried a .380 would not have the stopping power, but now that I've seen this and a couple of other videos about the Lehigh ammo, I have no more regret.
I love the Xtreme Defense bullet. The thing that will make me hesitate to engage a threat is the thought of also shooting whatever is behind the threat. I tell ALL my friends to use Xtreme Defense.
If you're afraid of hitting whatever is behind the threat then shouldn't you be much more afraid of the threat moving or something and you missing (which is a lot more likely than the bullet going all the way through the threat and harming some else)?
@@lehighdefensellc9886 I appreciate though despite the heat you've taken on the Xtreme Penetrator that you've stuck with a round that's great for defense against mountain lions and bears. The only 9mm I would ever trust in that role.
I have just started purchasing Xtreme Defender rounds in all of my handguns. I have always used and trained with Federal Premium HST and Hydrashok rounds, Speer Gold Dot rounds and Hornady Critical Duty rounds. The department that I work for uses the HST rounds. Another department that I volunteer for uses the Gold Dot rounds. And then another neighboring department uses the Critical Duty rounds. I keep in stock and train with all 3 brands of ammo and in every caliber of firearm that I own. I then discovered the Xtreme Defender rounds and began researching them and found ballistics tests done by multiple agencies consisting of multiple calibers, firearms and test mediums that had everything from no barrier penetration, to several different barriers tested that had to be penetrated first. The Xtreme Defender rounds were the only bullet that scored perfectly in every caliber, every barrel length, every pressure, every test medium shot into and even when every type of barrier had to be penetrated first. I then began testing the ammo myself. My test results also showed the same thing. So now I am going to be buying as much of this ammo as I can, and as often as I can.
I've found that the .380 acp xtreme penetrator is excellent for carry in the wintertime, and the xtreme defender in 380 acp to be perfect for summertime in that caliber. It really makes .380 a reliable viable option as a defensive carry pistol. Easy to keep on target for follow up shots out of a pocket gun and very accurate as well up to 25yds. perfect for that type and caliber of pistol.
@@Stu650Zuk wait, you used the 380 Xtreme penetrator on a black bear?? I know someone that carries Lehigh 380 in their LCP max. Is it actually that effective?
@@Stu650Zuk Yikes... That could've gone very differently, very quickly. Glad nothing happened. I've heard 10mm is already a great in-the-woods caliber with standard ammo. Underwood's bullets in 10mm must be devastating.
The 10mm Variants are hands down the best wilderness rounds I've ever carried in my G20's. I'd like to see some heavier weight pills but MAN do they go through hyde and bone. Hard-Cast lead has nothing on the shaped solid-copper pills.
@@lehighdefensellc9886 There's a lot of hoopla now about products with even trace amounts of lead, especially in California. Thoughts on lead-free copper bullets being a better option for a daily carry?
This video is 4 years old now, but these bullets are still #1 in my book, in my 10mm I carry Xtreme Penetrators and my 9mm uses Xtreme Defense. These bullets are hard to find where I live so you'll have to order them directly from Undewood over the internet. My opinion these bullets are the best.
If you get the Extreme Defense in 65 grain, you'll see 2,100 fps with that 357 sig with way more energy and less recoil, perfect for self defense rounds. Made by Underwood.
I watched the 9mm ammunition tests and comparisons on the Military Arms Channel; I do like consistency, and after watching your Xtreme Defense 9mm +p provide consistent levels of penetration and performance while the other brands had (sometimes wild) variances, I kinda steered away from the Federal HST (even though in straight ballistic gel it performed well) and will be purchasing the Xtreme Defense for my 9mm and .45 GAP. The explanation behind the differences in the Xtreme Penetrator and the Xtreme Defense and why the bullet was designed the way it is was helpful.
Charles, thank you for your note. Yes, our objective was to build a bullet that would offer consistent penetration and wounding characteristics despite the FBI specified barrier placed in front of the bullets path. Thanks Again, and we appreciate your support.
OK, as far as I understand the video, the bullet design of the XD works at least as effective as a standard hollow point without any of the no-expanding-problems. That's nice. But because of the design and the hardness of the copper I could imagine that that bullet performs also great after it had to penetrate barriers or bone (e.g. a hog's shoulder blade) because it most probably won't fragmentate or expand and therefore should have a great potential to go deeper and do damage (although it could start to tumble). By just shooting gelatine you might cover some great benefits of the projectile. How do both projectiles perform if they hit a solid animal skull in a critical angle? How much do they tend to deflect compared to standard hollow points? They are relatively light (which should be bad) but are very hard and have edges on the tip (which should be good).
Buffman range or military arms channel (cant remember which) does a test shooting through two sets of pork shoulder, it crackers the bones and still gets 17 inch in the gel, which is the same depth it gets with no barriers
In a 9mm 17 round double stack magazine, my chamber round and the first two out of the mag are XD, or Ruger ARX polycase, followed by 15 rounds of 124 or 147 grain Federal HST hollow points, depending on the time of year...124 grain in mild weather, 147 in cooler weather. They don't plug up, collapse, or deform.
I wish someone would do a video comparison between the Underwood Lehigh XD 90 grain standard pressure, and the +P and the +P+ rounds for this ammo. Also compare the +P+ XD against the XP.
Interesting thought, but I wonder how effective such diminutive ''flutes'' would prove to be. Perhaps they've already tested it and found it poorly performing.
I'm so tired of the "over penetration" fear! God forbid any bullet exceeds the almighty FBI standards in ballistic gelatin test! In my 26 years of Law Enforcement, 15 years of which was as a Crime Scene Detective, I have investigated 350 or 400 shootings, which makes my knowledge and experience somewhat limited, but I have NEVER seen a torso shot exit a body! I have investigated many shootings where the bullet did not penetrate enough to stop the threat, requiring many additional shots, but I have never seen a center mass shot exit! Simple as that. Hits to arms, legs? Most if not all bullets will exit, but we're talking center mass. Stopping the threat. Never seen a real life over penetration problem.
You're full of shit, I was shot by accident by my brother at the age of 12 with a .22 stinger out of a marlin model 60 , it went in my belly and came out my back hit the inside of my shirt and fell to the ground... if a petty little .22 can go through a person then i'm quite sure many other calibers can as well... and I was quite a big kid at 12, I was already 6ft tall and 180lbs at that time.
Great bullets! Magnificent performance in almost all the various pistol cartridges. But there's just one single flaw. The .32ACP with the LeHigh bullets has loading problems. But not because of your manufacture! The problem is the design of the original cartridge. It is a "semi-rimmed" cartridge. Meaning? The length of the cartridge is vitally important. This will not load or be counted on in defense situations. The loaded LeHigh cartridge is too short for the magazine, ans the original cartridge's dimensions. This lends the cartridge the ability to protrude forward of the following cartridges "semi-rim," causing a non-loading situation. As an old advocate of the 7.65MM/.32ACP; there needs to be a correction to the final manufacturing dimensions.
Nice explanation I've been wondering about these and how different they actually are, now I know. Melons were every other round starting XP, XD going to the end.
My G3C loves extreme defender, except when they perfectly jam when they occasionally try to jump out of the gun while loading. It is more of a mag spring issue, but I think the light weight of the round plays a part in this too.
2 года назад
let me guess, if UPS loses your package you rate the product 1 star. Buy a new magazine
@ lol, I have worked out the springs on 2 of the mags. Winchester USA Ready seems to be its favorite food. Look at my youtube channel, my banner is one of these jams. Oh and I don't rate a product on if it arrives. 🤣🤣😂 Those people are nuts. Oh that jam was hell, hell to undo. It can wedge them in so perfectly.
I hope as more are produced in more quantity, prices can go down slightly. I completely understand the reasons for the price, but it is still too pricey to practice with. This seems to be the future of defense ammo: High barrier penetration, but rapid energy dump on soft targets.
Seen some extensive testing on both these bullets. If you guys never compromise on quality and honesty you'll take over the ammo market for self-defense
I think where this ammo really shines is in .380. A normally underpowered round that is greatly improved enough to be a carry weapon. Xtreme Defenders are all that I carry in my LCP. Dew to the expense of this ammunition I don't carry it in larger calibers
Those extreme penetrators look like an excellent woods choice for 4 legged threats!! Might just have to get some with deer season right around the corner!
I trust the defender even in the woods . 4 legs or 2 . I trust this 90 grain out of a 4.4 inch barrel will do the trick. When I'm hiking with the lady . Or solo . It is the back yard of cats , bears , coyotes, and other game. Standard pressure of that 90 up close is something to fear. Love Underwood/Lehigh
The Xtreme Defender 90 gr +P is my 1st choice for carry ammo in my Walther PPQ M2 9mm. I am getting the same gun in 45 ACP next week and can't wait to try these out in that beast. On a side note, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, start cranking these things out again. They are damn near impossible to find these days!
I had two different sasquatch run-ins 2 years apart where I forage for mushrooms, fiddleheads, and ramps, and I don't go out there without my 10mm anymore and it's loaded with Lehigh XP's.
I've been curious about the xtreme defense, but am hesitant to buy them because of one question I have. That question is, "How does the permanent damage shown in the gel manifest itself in human tissue?" In most of my research on terminal ballistics, handgun projectiles are seen to generally do damage by physically running into and crushing tissue. Because human tissue is generally highly elastic, the tissue that is radially projected outward to form the temporary cavity doesn't get permanently destroyed. Obvious exceptions are the more inelastic structures such as bones, the liver, and the brain. These seem to be using something similar to the Munroe Effect, as they use constructive interference to form high pressure/velocity zones near the flute cutouts. Do you have any tests that show these areas generate sufficient pressure to cause a permanent wound cavity in actual body structures they way that they do in ballistics gel? In gel, these show incredible promise to be very accurate and reliable defensive projectiles. Before I'd trust these the way I'd trust some conventional hollowpoints, I'd like my concerns about transfer to be addressed. With a traditional hollowpoint, you still get some gel damage in the first 3-6 inches that expands beyond the diameter of the projectile, but it settles to a permanent crush cavity roughly matching the frontal area of the expanded bullet. You know if a bullet expands to .75", it's going to crush a cavity larger than the unexpanded diameter. With these, we're operating under the assumption that human tissue will show similar permanent cavitation to get a wound with a larger diameter than the projectile itself. If you could give me more information on this concern, I'd appreciate it. I'm pretty interested in the XD, and think your innovation is pretty admirable, I'm just not totally sold yet. Thanks.
Yes, this is why it seems like a very gimmicky ammunition. They developed something that will cause permanent stretch cavity early on in ballistics gel blocks to create maximum presentation in laboratory tests to look impressive and sell bullets, but perhaps not designed to work in real life. You have done a very good job of pointing out the potential flaws, and I fear them to be absolutely right on. Skin can account for 2-4 inches of gel, and small permanent stretch in ballistics gel is no proof there will be permanent tearing in real tissues, especially with low energy projectiles like these. Wither or not these permanent stretches can be recreated in real life scenarios puts the effectiveness of the bullet into question if it does anything but penetrate at all. It is good to note that the permanent stretch cavities look more impressive than what they actually are, because they appear large, but the stretch tends to follow the flutes, and is not a universal but rather limited stretch cavity, not nearly as impressive as it seems. Regular defensive handgun rounds that make permanent stretch look smaller than these permanent stretch to the casual observer, but close examination shows that regular hollow point permanent stretch cavities are round and very even and "full", meaning a 3/4 inch wide stretch is a "total" or round 3/4 inch, while these fluted stretch paths are wide, but very THIN, almost like brodhead to arrow style, fingers of permanent stretch that don't actually destroy much gelatin at all, just look wide from the right angles and only appear impressive. They are an impressive gimmick from what I've seen of them. Probably the best gimmick round I've ever seen. But I think its another round made purpose built to look good in gel tests for sales, not for real world performance.
I heard that a man in Alaska killed a charging grizzly with a compact 9mm using the Xtreme penetrator rounds!! With 36 inches of penetration I don't see why they wouldn't be a great outdoors round
Mike's shots on the water melons were: XP, XD, XP, XD, XP XD. FYI, I am now carrying just XD in all 3 of my carry guns, and my home defense gun as well! AWESOME job Lehigh Defense!
My primary CCW is a Witness 10MM and one in every 3 rds is one of your 115 grain loads from Underwood. There are many situations where more penetration is required such as a bad guy wearing kevlar, or an attacker using cover
Be careful because I'm pretty sure Concealed Carry forbids armor piercing. As far as I know they are not supposed to be armor piercing but if they are and you are carrying that at least in my state you may want to look back at your book for your state but the law in mine says no armor piercing. Ive seen a video where it has gone damn near all the way through Level II armor. Ive posed the question to the channel hopefully they respond soon. It can get you in big trouble in my state not sure about yours. Don't know about you but Id hate to go to prison over choosing the wrong ammo for self defense Conceal carry.
I think the Lehigh .312 caliber 75 grain Xtreme Defense bullet loaded in H&R Magnum cases would be an excellent 2" revolver load for those wanting less recoil than 38 +P. Would work in .327 Magnum revolvers (they're also .312 caliber) & a plus is they carry 6 rounds instead of 5. There's also a .312 caliber 95 grain Extreme Defense bullet.
For sure but I don't know if they could get the same wound physics with a .22 mag, especially with a 1.5" barrel. I carry high speed CCI and lower speed Gold Dot hollow points in mine.
@@ytubepuppy Gold dots for me. The gold dots expand to about the size of an unexpanded 9mm bullet so it'll be hard to beat, but I am having a hell of a time finding the ammo. All the places that carried it, stopped because not a lot of people bought it. (But they still carry 357 Sig and 327 federal ammo and 50 bmg. . .)
@@MegaAppleshit I bought mine about four years ago during the ammunition shortage, and only shot enough to make sure everything functions. I need to see what's available and shoot up a box. The NAA is my self defense weapon of last resort, so I'm not too worried about making long shots. If I have to use it, there will be powder burns on my attacker. ;-D
Would a 9mm just piss you off too? The 22 caliber gold dots expand to about 35 caliber and penetrate over 12 inches from my gun. It is totally adequate. I mean most 38 special rounds dont expand from a snub nose and they are 357 caliber. People have been carrying 38s for decades to great effect.
Can you tell us more? I am primarily interested in the XP as a bear/boar defense round, but haven't heard much about how effective it actually is. Do you have stories you can share about people up there using 10mm or XP against bears?
@@ryanaegis3544 A bought a 10mm Glock from a friend leaving the state. He shot 2 brown bears with it. The first one from a tree stand at about 10 yards in the back of the neck with one shot. The other was trying to come through his cabin door . He barely racked the slide when the door flew open and he pointed and let loose and didn't stop until the magazine was empty. The bear went off the porch on an angle and thrashed around the side of the cabin. By the time he dumped the mag and reloaded the bear had stopped moving and he didn't fire anymore rounds. I don't know exactly what ammo he used, but it was a hot load with a hardcast lead bullet. Both bears weighed between 350 and 400 lbs.
No issues on my Glock 19, Kimber 1911, or my FNX45. Shoots well in revolver calibers, also. The Controlled Chaos rifle rounds are awesome, too! I run Underwood or Lehigh in all my rifles as well!
I'm not too concerned with over penetration but I am impressed by the speed and wound channel of the XD's. And that's probably true with all calibers of the XD's.
If you didn't make the right decision would you admit to yourself that you had made the wrong choice? Or would you try to justify your decision because this is the round you are staking your life on and it would be extremely difficult to admit that you are using a sub standard round?
I'm always worried my bullet will go through my intended target and hit someone else, perhaps a bystander. I do NOT want over-penetration. Lehigh Xtreme Defender is my carry choice!
I could see justification for carrying both and staggering them in the magazine (XD, XD, XP, XP, XD ...). If you double tap on a threat with the XD and you don’t achieve the desired incapacitation, then go for the XP’s.
I hope you're prepared to serve some time after you over penetrate and kill an innocent person trying to defend yourself. These are the worst types of carry ammo, setting yourself up for trouble.
I think we have to keep in mind these are lighter weight all copper bullets compared to traditional lead, they might be similar to the Barnes DPX and TSX all copper bullets. These have no lead so there will be no fragmentation as lead is more brittle and fragile than copper and copper retains it's weight better. Plus, no lead in the meat if you plan on eating what you kill for hunting. I'm more curious as how do the Lehigh Xtreme Defense compares to the Hornady XTP and Hornady SST in terms of expansion and internal damage. I'd like to see Lehigh make a Xtreme Penetrator for the S&W 500 for defense against Brown bear/Grizzly. That bullet might be able to get 70" inches of penetration.
would like to see more on the .32 acp. These loads will make it viable again imho. Little recoil, light weight pistols, and the kel tec p32 has 10 round magazine options. Seriously considering this becausse I like the light recoil of .32.
Thanks for the note, I think we might have some Gel Shots? Here is my personal email. pete.vogel@lehighdefense.com. Send me an email and I will look around to see what we have . Thanks Pete
I'm really starting to like the Underwood product line, I picked up a couple boxes of Xtreme Penetrators for my 10mm and I'm going to order me some Defenders for my personal carry 9mm
Warning: these rounds have extreme jamming issues in many guns, due to their odd shaped bullets. Try a couple of boxes before you buy a large quantity.
I carry Federal HST 147gr hollow points right now, but your XD rounds have captured my attention. I'll be looking into this more. Thanks for the video.
So, do you guys plan to release an Extreme defender in 38 special or 357 Magnum? As a revolver guy, I like absolute reliability so I am liking the design of these bullets, but my preferred caliber isn't available.I have seen the video from shootingthebull410 that shows the 380 extreme penetrator working out to be just about perfect for defensive 380s, but in 357 Magnum, I feel that the extreme penetrator is a liability and in 38 special, I have not seen any tests of it so I don't feel comfortable carrying it and I am too much of a cheapo to test it myself and even if the advertised penetration is correct (17inches is awesome btw) I would prefer the defender bullet for the larger wound tract.
