Very pleasant news to learn that Lehigh Defense has come to the WC family. After much research, I concluded that the Xtreme Defender is a solid defensive round that can stop a threat while minimizing the worry of overpenetration that risks unintended collateral damage.
Hopefully that means availability is going to go up?! Been a fan and shooting and promoting Lehigh Defense for years. Underwood is a big part of that as well.
I carry these in my 10mm when I’m in the mountains. In that caliber it’ll prolly work on bad guy’s, Bears or ‘Squatch. Because you just never know what you’re liable to come across in the Appalachian Mountains.
East Tennessee here! I wouldn't worry about the bears or Bigfoot, its the freakin meth heads I'd be more concerned about. I had a park ranger tell me a few years ago, people have been going up to the more secluded camp grounds and making meth in tents! Always carry, stay safe and God bless!
@@WD-hd1vw depends (as always) on the skill and experience of the operator. I’m a competitive shooter and NRA Instructor for over 35 years and before that an infantry captain. Yes, the recoil on Bear/Squatch level loads is stout. You’re not going to pull off a mag dump as fast as either a 9mm or .45ACP. But with proper grip and stance, it can be done and done accurately.
The Greenland Army has for years routinely used Glock 20 and its 10mm to stop polar bears. With historic bullets and loads, it might take 5 shots and the polar bear might get within 5 feet of you, but the Greenland Army (last I knew) has kept using 10mm out of Glock 20. Wouldn't be surprised if they transitioned to 10 mm out of Glock 40 sometime.
@@ExSoldier762 Well said, thankfully most people don't know about 45 super and the ability to apply it in any 1911 45acp or any good 45acp polymer frame with the proper considerations like does the pistol have a steel guide rod and heavy recoil spring from factory like most Kahr 45acp such as cw45, cm and pm 45 models. The most important aspect for safely implimenting 45 super out of the 45acp is just ensuring it has a fully supported chamber, most older gen Glock for example do not. 10mm and 45 super are pretty equally matched as far as energy from lbs but the 45 can still take the biggest pill up to 255gr moving out at up to about 800 or slightly over ft lbs of muzzle energy. A little non secret best left unspoken for the most part, as there's always someone who'll try it in a critically under qualified piece which could be a very bad day and perhaps their last day. When in doubt don't even try it is best advice on running 45 super for sure.
If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion:: If it was me that bought out an ammo company I would send about 50 rounds of each projectile type along with 50 rounds of the 2 best competitor brands to Paul Harrell & ask him to do a comparison video .... paul does good job with his videos imo and I think his ""meat"" targets are much more relative than ballistic gel for a real world test (granted gel is good for a same as test) but the meat target gives a more realist outcome true they are not all the same everytime but niether are the thugs that attack (they could be a 95 pound female a 170 pound female or a 150 pound guy or a 300 pound guy can be fat or lean a muscle builder type or couch potato who knows) & Paul Harrels meat target gives as close to an actual body (imo) as you can get without having an a tual body to shoot (most hopefully all of us dont want an actual body too shoot I know I dont but it's good to have an idea of the performance you projectile will give & imo Paul gives a very close idea of that Thx for your videos
Just picked up some Underwood 68gr +p 9mm Xtreme Defender. Really impressive bullet to hold. Makes it really light to carry 17+1 magazine when compared to a 124 or 147gr.
I switched to the defender ammunition about three years ago, really interesting to see what Wilson will do with this company. Excellent presentation thank you for your time posting this content.
I just ordered the Underwood Extreme Defender in 380 using them in a Glock 42. I saw substantial bullet setback after only 1 racking. Am I doing something wrong?
I have been carrying these bullets in the Underwood ammo brand. Used to be Lehigh only sold the bullets. But I highly recommend them. Used to carry HydoSchok rounds. But these just perform better under more circumstances...
I used the 150 gr .410 in my 7 1/2 “ Redhawk 41 Mag. in our slug zone. The buck I shot openning morning dropped in his tracks. Something that a 12 ga sabot doesn’t do. Very impressive.
I have both a 45 Colt pistol and rifle. Lehigh Defense's 220 grain Maximum Expansion, 220 grain Xtreme Defender, and their 250 grain Xtreme Penetrator are the only bullets I have ever shot through them so far, or ever plain to. Nice to know Wilson Combat has great taste in bullets too.
Sounds like you explained the extreme penetrator & the defender in the reverse order. I was told penetrator was just that, extreme penetrator and defense was just that defense semi-penetrator. Please clear that up for us.
To be honest, I'm glad Wilson Combat has purchased Lehigh because it validates my choice of carry ammo, the Underwood loading of the Lehigh 9mm 90 gr. Xtreme Defense. Hey, if Bill Wilson believes in it, then that's going to be a huge boost for the concept! This +P+ loading produces an average 1396 fps in my Glock 26, my carry gun of choice. I also use this ammo in my AMT .380 Backup, which prior to getting the Underwood loading, I never carried without serious doubts regarding it's effectiveness with standard ammo, even using Speer Gold Dots, always my second choice if the Lehigh bullets are not available to me. I am now confident the little .380 will do it's job without issue. Between my own testing and what I have seen online, I became convinced the concept of the fluted bullets was sound... and downright deadly! I honestly cannot think of any bullet I would rather have in a self defense firearm than the Lehigh Xtreme Defence and if Mas and Bill start carrying it, then you know it's got to be good! So come on guys, are your carry mags now loaded with the best bullet money can buy or are one or both of still on the fence? I now have them in my .380, 9mm's, .38 Special (standard pressure) and .45 ACP's. The only one I have yet to change over is .357 mag (currently loaded with the 125 Speer Gold Dot) and that is mainly because I no longer stage revolvers for self defense purposes, although I intend to get some .357 to load, just in case. I honestly believe that a better self defense bullet cannot be had from anyone for any price! Probably nothing as good either, although I still have great confidence in the Speer Gold Dot. Long live Lehigh & Wilson Combat! Cheers, jc
Bill and Massad… i just received 2 boxes of Extreme Defense 9mm for my daily carry. G26 and One boxes of .380 Extreme Defense for my wife’s weapon. Thank you by the way. When I first opened the box… my question was have you had any trouble running these through any of weapon’s. I mean… getting caught in the chamber path. Thanks you your response. I true enjoy the information from all your experience. Keep it up!
I just received my 90gr extreme defense, 1550fps 480 / 500 ish ft lb of muzzle. My purchase was the Lehigh defense by Underwood brand +p+ line of the same projectile. This effectively makes the 9mm absolutely a capable woods carry for the potential random black bear attack or Sasquatch if he's feelin froggy he can go ahead and jump. Thanks Wilson combat, Lehigh defense and Underwood, you're all supplying American's with a quality product.
I use the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr 9mm +P because that's what our Sheriff's Department use. Advice you gave us long ago Mr Ayoob. The .300 AAC I keep for home defense has the 220 gr OTM Sub Sonics.
The Lehigh Defense LONG COPPER HOLLOW POINT made for 45 Long Colts chambered in Taurus Judge and Smith & Wesson Governor revolvers that take up the cylinder length almost. Also fits in 460 S&W magnum X-frame revolvers. Hope you keep it factory made.
Do these revive 45 ACP/45 Super? The traditional JHP loaded to 45 Super velocity tends to over expand or have jacket separation resulting in not enough penetration. What do the wound cavities look like from the 45 Super Xtreme Defender? I keep hearing about this 2016/2017 Joint Agency ballistic test. But it is a "sanitized" version that does not show much information.
Could you guys develop a max expansion bullet for pistols? I still have about a magazine of the old 10mm Controlled Fracturing loaded by Underwood and I just ordered a box of Extreme Penetrators for my third "oh shit, I'm in a real fight" magazine, but it would be nice to have some high performance hollow points that aren't produced by Speer (great bullet, but they're hard to come by).
Hi Bill I love the solid Cooper Xtreme Defense loads. The only drawback is bullet setback. I hope y'all can engineer a way to solve that problem. Much success for your company.
I noticed the 10mm Xtreme Penetrator projectiles for handloading changed weights. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. I see 115, 140, 150, and 185-grain projectiles for now.
That's because underwood has a contract with them. I prefer the underwood loaded ammo because in the business I'm in I need a nice safe hot load and underwood is in the top of that category!
Would you consider making Lehigh Controlled Choas in .357 Magnum and maybe +P for a revolver? And for a .45 ACP Pistol? I didn't see Controlled Fracturing or Maximum Expansion for either one, either. Lead-Free sounds good to me. This would be for Personal Defense with a S&W .357 Magnum 4" 586 (I'm pretty sure 586) and a Glock 21 Gen 4. I prefer Hollow Points, so these would be great. I'm no so interested in throughput by a remainder wad cutter base, but expansion for stopping. A .357 Magnum Hollow Point is more likely to stop before exiting because of the expansion, according to what I've seen and read. Thanks
Great buy bill been using the loads for a while now and there the cats meow underwood has got the name out there and have good loads. Love the 308 both rounds are great for mule dear up here in Washington state good luck buddy and awesome buy my friend
Bill, It comes to my attention that if you go to the Berryville Facility you likely go through Russellville in Arkansas. On the off chance you do, and your feeling hungry when you do, stop by Fat Daddy's BBQ in Russellville and I'll hook you up with Arkansas best BBQ I ain't gunna lie, it don't compare to Texas, but our steaks are too notch
I would be interesting to find out how well the Lehigh defensive handgun bullet does on medium-size game, if that could be done. Or perhaps in .44 magnum on hogs. I think that's important for defensive bullets that haven't had time to acquire a track record in defensive shootings.
I would love to buy some of these. however they are for reloading and if you can't find primers then we can't reload anymore. do you make them already loaded from the factory?
@@nmr6988 Yes but I also have a subwoofer. If I turn down the volume I won't be able to hear what they are saying. Now that I look at it I actually have a bass knob too. But the audio just sounds bad overall. But, yes, you are right I could turn down my bass knob. I think it would still sound bad though.
I've been reluctant to risk the use of some of what I call "gimmick bullets" for self defense, relying instead on premium conventional hollow points that I have tested extensively when I was in law enforcement. But I've seen some pretty impressive tests with Lehigh ammunition, and now that Bill owns the company and has lent his reputation to the brand, I'm more likely to try them out. Knowing him as I do, I do not think that Mas Ayoob would lend his presence to a video promoting defense ammo if he didn't think it would work. I'm not saying that I will necessarily give up my HST's and Gold Dots, just that after testing Lehigh might make my list as well.
Please tell us what your brand name for these solid copper rounds are. I heard you were marketing them as Underwood and I bought some for my Glock 42 380acp. However I had excessive bullet setback in only racking them into the chamber 1x. Am I buying from the wrong company?
Just bought some underwood extreme penetrator 380. $23 for a box of 20 plus tax and shipping. Paul liked it for shorter barrels but for longer barrels liked other options better. Should be noted, as I understand it, this round is not supposed to expand. The structure of the bullet by itself is supposed to do the dirty work.
I think I just found my new EDC ammo. I live in both New Jersey and South Carolina. To stay legal in New Jersey my EDC's are Hornady Critical Duty in both 135 grain 357 & 135 grain 9mm+p. I will switch to the 9mm Extreme Defense. Is there any plans for a 357 Magnum Extreme Defense loading in the future. I am sure it would be a winner also. Bob
Just bought some of the 95 grain, the 110 grain and the 194 grain 300blk variants. If the cycle from my Aug a3m1 I will be going into debt to buy thousands of rounds….
Having the God of Firearms and self defense Massad Ayoob on here says alot . I would bet my life on that man's knowledge . If he says those bullets will do the job then I trust him .
I heard Bill Wilson say the bullets would be sold by several consumer companies such as Brownell 's but when I called them they didnt know they had such a product. Anyone know how or rather where to order them. I have some Underwood Extreme Defender in 389 for my Glick 42 bur bullet setback is really bad on those.
I have been looking for some 9mm Makarov 9x18mm defensive ammo and noticed that all I can find available from Underwood in stock is Extreme Penetrator instead of Extreme Defense. I find this interesting because the Extreme Penetrator is ostensibly a hunting round so why is Underwood making the majority of their Makarov rounds in the Extreme Penetrator version? Are there really people out there hunting with the 9x18mm? Or is it that the Extreme Penetrator is more suited to self-defense applications with the 9mm Makarov? Maybe all the Extreme Defense has been sold out and the Extreme Penetrator is all that is on the shelves since it is unsuited to both defensive use and hunting since nobody uses the 9x18mm Makarov for hunting?
I am curious about how the Xtreme Defense, say in 9mm, performs in urban environments. I gotta wonder about overpenetration in apartment buildings and homes with off-target rounds.
It seems like Bill Wilson has the notion that lawn enforcement could potentially use this ammunition in the future and decided to purchase it to sell to them.
What terminal velocity does each type of bullet require to function as advertised, in animal flesh [or at least in gelatin if the animal data isn't in yet]?
@@bobwilson758 That's a sample size of one, which is statistically meaningless. Good data involves large samples sizes, averages, and variances. (just to begin with) For instance if one box of ammo tells me what its ft-lbs is and the other box doesn't, guess which box of ammo I am going to buy. People who can't publish data, and get it independently verified, are what is known as non-credible vendors. The video sent to me didn't have any huge dead hog up front, so simply because something is sent over the internet doesn't mean it is universally received.
