Being numbers obsessed will lead to mediocre results. If stans are known for anything, it will always be chart obsession As one matures, numbers shouldn’t mean anything when it comes to music. People should enjoy the end product.
Ngl they remind me soooo much of asian parents who always compare each other's child academic performance. Stans are literally just that, it's sad. It's sad they don't see the quality first and always use numbers to argue with other stans, which is basically what Asian parents do.
@@CamrynSuzannesoo true!! i keep seeing ppl hating on my favs and saying certain people are better than others just because they are more well known & sell more even though taste is subjective
The only few artists I know that are making good music are Hozier, and AURORA. Everything else is just not catchy anymore, I miss the 2000s music it was cringe at times but fun.
Artists are 100% number hungry now. Especially because they see artists like Drake and Taylor Swift being rewarded so heavily for it. The moment they started putting streaming numbers on those plaques, it was over. Streams do not equal quality.
@@ai.regardless There is better music out there. Ava Max is vocally superior to Taylor but she's not as popular. Taylor has a good marketing team and she's a decent writer.
I'm thinking its the music companies. Billie and Taylor are with the same lable but you know who wins when everyone is fighting over who's better. The music label that is raking in money from both
This conversation reminds me of how nerds use box office numbers, game sales, and Metacritic scores to justify their opinions. It seems like some music fans are not that different.
This!!! Like I see this when it comes to The little mermaid movie last year on twitter. I kid you not. Fans of Halle's Ariel were discussing the beauty of movie and the fanart and one guy said box office flop and stuff like that. 🙄
Kpop stans are the worst for this. Bragging about millions of album sales only for them to end up in the trash. Billions of streams and only 1,000 albums sold. They inflate the sales and streams so much just to say their faves are the best. They don’t care about the MUSIC. Only the bragging rights. It’s sad.
Actually it’s the other way round. Many K-pop artists are selling millions of albums while barely getting any streams because their fans buy like thousands of copies just to inflate the sales.
omg i hated this when i used to be on stan twitter. they'd post "streaming goals" for everyone in the fandom to work towards so whatever artist they liked could have a number one, but at that point is it even authentic? isn't it better that a song hits number one bc ppl genuinely like it? not bc their fans are working overtime to reach a certain number of streams? it sucked all the fun out of it for me.
I remember everytime a black pink or any kpop group make a comeback and everyone's like let's get to so and so number! I didn't really remember many comments talking about the song, esp with the bigger groups
@@attachou fr as a fan myself it just gets so tired and draining and then you get labeled as a fake fan for not sleeping with a playlist dedicated to one song lmao 😭 like just enjoy music for what it is
This! Because of this obsessive behavior, a lot of songs that top charts aren’t even songs the general public knows. I miss the days when hit songs were actually iconic, memorable and known by the general public.
This is the same phenomenon that's happening with movies(ppl more worried about Box Office numbers than the actual quality of the film)....This obsession with numbers is ruining entertainment.
Yeah, it reminds me of the Marvel Endgame thing, where it returned to theaters with 6 extra minutes of footage, just so they could be the highest grossing film ever, beating Avatar. And I remember thinking... really? Thay feels like cheating the system that you already have wrapped around your finger.
I feel like it’s so hard to get a chart topping hit these days because no one really listens to radio. It all depends on algorithms and whether or not it favors your favorite artists.
That's exactly what radios are people just moved to streaming but it's the same thing. Some songs are played at higher rates because of payola. But streaming changed the game because if a song goes viral it can chart without the need of payola. Aka making catchy songs is better than payola nowadays.
Oh absolutely, but thats exactly why more things just get pushed regardless bc if u have your stans backing you whether the song is good or not…they will make it chart
Everything you said was SPOT ON❗️ That’s why Michael Jackson CANNOT Be compared 2 any artist ever! He didn’t need stream farms/bots (which are inflating most of these artists numbers) or any gimmicks. He did it all organically & at the highest level before the streams & the internet were even thought of. Where you had to actually go out & purchase the album. And you knew you’d get your moneys worth because he always put out phenomenal bodies of work. The 🐐❗️Forever 🙌🏾💯❗️ Great video & you’re Looking Great as always by the way 😍🔥❗️
it’s really bad when artists get numbers obsessed the same way stans are… anyone remember that unhinged twitter rant Nicki went on in 2018 after Queen debuted at #2
Oh yea I remember that 🤦🏾♀️ But I wouldn’t consider her ranting bad. I think Nicki has problem with Billboard behind the scenes. It’s seems like every time she drops an album they always have to subtract some of her sales. It makes you wonder why are they doing this to her? & why is billboard always changing the rules every time she’s about to drop? 🤔
@@kinggbeeee It really doesn’t make me wonder at all… if you’ve seen half of her arguments, it’s taken from her own fanbase. she even accused spotify of trying to suppress her, which they disproved with receipts. i think she has trapped herself in an echo chamber and is insecure about her own star power.
I'd also love that Spotify hid the numbers. Also RU-vid video count. So many people prevent from listening to an artist or a song just because its not that popular
i haven't started the vid but the intro reminds me of the time justin bieber tried to get yummy of all songs to number one so desperately😭😭😭 i get why artists are number hungry bcuz this industry is so hostile to helping everyone make their cash but it's too much sometimes
At some point, obsessing over numbers is weird when you’re a really big artist like Taylor swift. Like you’re not even hungry for success anymore, you’re hungry for popularity
@@niyaakbar1098 and also you begin to disregard the artistry behind making music, quality doesn't matter as much as long as your stans keep streaming and you're number 1
Nah I think you should exclude it a fan made that post he just shared it as a joke, compare to others he doesn't seem that desperate for streams or even want to be in the spotlight
@@florencembah2626 exactly!! i was on the fandom at that time and that its exactly what happened lol it was so embarrassing to see how everyone believed that justin was hungry for streams lmao but it was his fault bc he never said anything about it after that
im sorry, but all the little tricks taylor/taylor's team do to sell, that I just noticed, is CRAZYyy like the "limited edition" standard album CD which includes ONLY ONE acoustic version of an already existing song, like why bother??
@@hamzachibi286 i commented this because taylor just announced a "special edition" cd with ONLY 1 extra "acoustic" pre-existing song. like why bother selling that??
k-pop stans are probably the prime example... I like k-pop but stans see absolutely no problem in mass streaming and buying, then get confused when there's rules put in place around it. Like yes you are inflating numbers and should count as a bot if you loop playlists and buy a lot of albums to reach goals for your fav. The worst part is, whether its the label or the fans inflating numbers, it will help an artist grow a fanbase. Obviously not all k-pop stans do this but good portion care so deeply about numbers its concerning
@@turtlesareslow2040oh,plz.Other fandoms do mass buying than armys.Bts has so many fand to buy but some groups dont have 500m in a single album but they have sold put 5M + units .Thats where problem is.
the streaming police is basically the music version of a certain sports fan. There are a lot of sport "fans" who are only fan of the team with the highest scores. They will hop from winning team to another.
@@CamrynSuzanne I suppose it's some sort of tribalism where tribes compete against each other. Those with the competitive attitude probably have to feel like they are on the winning side for the sake of their own identity.
The STANS have ruined music entirely and don't get me started on the KPOP stans and how they inflate the streams. It's honestly destroyed new artists chances. Also, a lot of these ppl think there can just talk to these artists like they aren't human. Great to see you again Camryn. And Billy definitely was dragged back because she had just released a bunch of vinyls 😂 so she made a point but it falls deafly when you are contributing
I think opinions can change. She probably didn't think it was big deal but as she got older she realized how wasteful having that many variants is. You learn as you get older and opinions change. She probably didn't think about it back then and does now. I know I didn't. I thought collectables were cool until I saw artist having life 6 different vinyls all for the price of like 60 dollars each. That's when it started to become an eye roll.
Drake and Taylor Swift have paved the way for a numbers obsessed culture. Drake by bragging about his number, and Taylor by revolutionizing the way that artists try to encourage buying multiples. I’m a day 1 swiftie, but i’ve seen how her sales tactic have morphed since Reputation
Except.. for Taylor... Unlike Drake... She doesn't need to rely on Streaming alone.. if she decided to pull out of streaming her physical sales will increase exponentially.. like she did with 1989 in 2014... Which had a huge impact in streaming services.
@@Azarath_Metrion_ZinthosYes, pushing parasocial relationships and encouraging buying multiples makes it so you don’t have to rely on streaming because fans will but 10 albums each. And the last two 1989 singles failed to hit the top 10. But you’re a stan with multiple playlists dedicated to her so deaf ears and exhibit A
@@MoMo-rx4zr "Last two 1989 singles failed to hit the top 10" i thought we were watching this video with the aim of proving that toping charts doesnt mean good and not topping charts doesnt mean bad?
That's why the music industry is exploiting the fan loneliness. I mean, I've seen crazy stuff K-pop stans have done. Like not sleeping for days just to stream. Using multiple devices just to vote for their favorites And even buying tickets, having the songs in loops, etc.
@@CamrynSuzanne dude it is SO BAD like people will fly to Korea across the world for their faves sometimes. Even if they aren't crazy stalker fans, many are so occupied with them for every waking moment that its just deeply concerning... Thousands of dollars on just photocards alone, dozens of copies of each variant of an album, and don't even get me started when we get to concerts, merch, even buying the same clothes that they wear. It looks cool, but in the end those k-pop stans with "dream" (not my dream) collections are spending well over 10k each year.
It’s as if an album is considered bad, if it doesn’t chart. Charting does not mean it’s a good album. There are some artists who have never charted but make decent music while others who have and make mediocre songs. Charting is just one component. Also, the way music charts nowadays is so different to how artists charted years before. Charting also only helps those big name celebrities like Olivia Rodrigo, Taylor Swift, Sza, etc because they are already household names so obviously they have a higher chance of making it high up in the charts. Smaller artists don’t have that opportunity because they either got to make a good hit or use social media to promote their song so hard. Do artists really care if they chart?? I would hope not since this is about the music after all. I think it’s so much more important to fans and listeners just so they can “brag” that their number 1 fav celebrity is the best. This also goes with awards. Getting the most awards and charting doesn’t always mean an artist is the best. We all know a lot of people who never won a Grammy or been #1 in billboard but make some good ass music and then we also know a lot of those who win every award and chart #1 but their music is not the best.
I agree with this whole assessment! Young fans (especially) are starting to associate high charting with quality or good music and it’s extremely unfortunate. Ppl are missing out on great projects bc it isn’t producing large numbers. It sucks
If the fans, the record label and the music journalists who interview them care about the charts, then the artists will most likely do it as well. The charts only exist because so many people care.
It is pretty unfortunate. Only big artists can pull such numbers and see any success. It really affects the smaller artists. For a new artist to break through either they have to make the song of the year or tiktok brainrot!
Oh foresure! i feel like with all these tricks labels and signed artists are using, it’s really hard for smaller artists to chart or even be able to compete
I love k-pop, but k-pop stans are EMBARRRRRASSSING and ik its not everyone, but knowing how desperate people are and willing to spend hours streaming and thousands buying albums just for the photocards and POBs (special, pre order benefit cards from certain stores, and in order to get them out of Korea for a cheaper shipping price often GOMs or group order managers there or proxys will take the inclusions and ditch, often not even recycling, the albums) is INSANE and so gross and like.... everyone needs to go touch some grass. Not even touch it, but hug it, sleep in it, idk because even though it is fun and GOOD inherently, the depth to which the interest goes, turning into a life-encompassing obsession is just SAD.
I hate that an artist whole album can occupy the Hot 100 then the songs are completely off the charts a few weeks later. Should just be official singles
That's a thing since early 2010s though. Even before the streaming numbers that platforms have now. You just notice it more bc a lot of album tracks are reaching the top 10 but it's pretty common for big artists/groups.
Drake tease...all his songs from a single album debuts inside hot 100 for a week.. then almost most of them fall out of the charts r never to see again. I think Taylor Swift is the only one who manages to hold on most songs in the charts a longer time....for example with her newer album... All 31 songs charted inside top 40 of BBhot 100... After 3 weeks.. only 5 songs have left the chart rest of the songs r still charting currently.
There's a time of human life: When eating experiences supposed to feels homemade, Clothings and wearables used to get by bespoke and tailor-made, The news and stories were written on papers, entertainments, sports and leisures had to get physical. And musics for the joys of ears awaiting for releases in ALL anticipation. Those time of human life was long gone. The emotional attachment and sentimentality values that we are nowadays simply vanishing.
It's just ok if there are variants it depends on the fans if they will buy each one of them, I thought Billie is calling them out then finding out she even has variants.
She's not even top of vinyl variants. She doesn't constantly release speed up tiktok versions, and her pure sales are massive enough . A lot of midnights deluxe and the ttpd extended doesn't even have physicals released
@@riyazuoshe may not be top in variants, but i think with midnights, 1989, and TTPD there was an encouragement to by all of them instead of one or even two. Midnights had the clock, 1989 had 48hr releases, and TTPD didn’t have the full physical album unless you bought all. And The Anthology not having a physical variant encourages fans who buy to also stream. Same thing with midnights having a deluxe version way after the physical album had been out. The numbers game that Swifties, Drake fans, and Kpop fans play has made it so you can’t interact with those artists work online without numbers coming up. I think Taylor is always coming up with new ways to sell variants and other labels tend to adopt her tactics.
@@MoMo-rx4zr yes she's very creative with gimmicks so her vinyls actually end up getting sold instead of being wasteful bc it fails to meet demands. I don't see why that's so bad 🤷♂️ why is she the most demonized for selling variants when she's only one of the few who actually manages to sell them. Maybe other artists DO need to catch up bc their boring vinyls are doing nothing but warming up record store shelves. Her numbers might seem bloated to you bc of her variants, but that's only bc it actually boosts her sales unlike others who try to sell more vinyls, more variants, more remixes with much lesser success. My point - is a lot of her peers are more excessive than her, yet people's critical eyes are on her solely bc she actually manages to have results.
In her defense… Lana Del Rey has always released physical versions of her records (CD & Vinyl) as she likes people to be able to hold her music she works hard to create. I know there was vinyls before Lana but I do think she had a big part in baking them popular again. Although she always did it to support small record shops. She is deff releasing more variants now than she used to but the demand is there…
Finally someone said it! Some of the BEST music (and even shows/movies) I’ve ever heard doesn’t even come close to topping the charts while mostly mediocre music does instead because of the artist behind them 🙃
Strictly out of curiosity, because of all the hype, as soon as Taylor's new album dropped, I waited a couple days and visited the comments from die hard Swifties. I was surprised to find so many of her loyal fans complain about how familiar and typical her songs had become. Even when it came to her larger anthology version. "Waay too much of the same thing" they complained. They serioulsy suggested she take a year off, decompress, get some new inspiration and come back reinvented. Don't know much about Taylor's music so I am not the one to judge their perspective. But it was satisfying to hear their yearning for quality over quantity.
As a die hard swiftie, Taylor is really on her hyper productive era. She’s always made clear that she values songwriting as a form of therapy to process certain emotions she’s gorging through, and I believe she’s arrived at a place where she doesn’t want to “gatekeep” her work anymore (look at what she’s doing with the re-recordings and the vault tracks). But to be fair, the argument about quality over quantity is totally valid and understandable. Some of the songs, even though they’re used as “closing chapters” in her life, feel unnecessary to a lot of fans, also because they don’t really represent the concept of the album in itself, that being the Matty Healy interlude and the aftermath of it. I myself don’t go back to some of them very often, especially in the anthology. A lot of them feel like they’d been written solely for herself and not really for us, which is good on some extents, but maybe a little skimming is not gonna hurt anybody (Robin has nothing to do with the album, it’s just there and it’s not even THAT good honestly, thanK you aIMee is superfluous, even though I appreciate the not-so-subtle Kim slander, Cassandra is very good imo but again, it could’ve been removed and the album could’ve worked perfectly well without it)
@giuliabonechi1864 Thanks! Yours is the best introduction to understanding Taylor Swift's music. Now I have a better grasp as to why her songs strike a chord with so many young women. Perhaps women in general. I suspect many of her long term fans may feel they have "outgrown" some of her themes and hence perhaps no longer resonate with them. Maybe that is why they prefer she move on to different subject matter?
her records have gone extremely bloated and it's sad to see. i think she feels she has to put out everything she writes because of the vault tracks from her rerecordings and it really makes her newer albums more shallow. she needs to hire an editor because she's got to a point where quantity is better than quality. half of her newest album didn't need to be released at all but she did anyway. it's just unfortunate bc she does make great art but right now, she's more of a raging capitalist than a relatable artist.
Begin a kpop stan, I hate to see all the album versions and photocards, because they're so cool and I wanna get them. But i'll stick to 1 album every 2 comebacks and ocasionally getting a photocard second hand. I don't need more, Im grateful i can get some merch and actually use the inclusions inside the album (like cd, stickers etc.) Also its sad no one uses cds anymore, I try to as much as i can but im gulity aswell :((
Yeah I definitely think it’s cool to support your favorite artists! It’s just the overconsumption becomes so crazy and I think artists take advantage of that
This! I have a few physical BTS albums that I've listened to countless times and I was beyond shocked when I found out a lot of people don't play them?! Like that's the main aspect, why would you just want to have it as an object? To each their own, but I don't understand lol
Is that actually true where Taylor sold a million pure sales (physical/digital albums with no streams)? If so, she’s actually comparable to older artists with large pure sale numbers. I think it would be funny if we stripped away streaming and see how drastic of a drop in sales artists have today vs older artists.
she reaches those crazy numbers bc she usually has multiple versions of the same album. it's still impressive that they sell out in like less than 5 minutes. she has the most dedicated stans.
taylor would still sells millions of units still in a week. like her new album sold 2.6m units in a week but if you exclude streaming units it would be 2.1m. it's still impressive
i honestly feel that sometime in the near future the industry is going to noticeably start placing more importance on singles and different variants of the single rather than full albums, especially for pop artists that don't have a dedicated fanbase. in the streaming era, people don't really interact with albums like they used to. artists put so much time and effort into developing an "era" for the album and promoting it, yet it's still probably only going to be talked about for a week at most before everyone moves on. especially with apps like tik tok, and the fact that everybody kinda treats albums as just a collection of songs they could potentially add to a separate playlist, i see many pop artists not even wanting to waste their time creating one anymore.
Oh foresure!! All of this is heading to that direction. Rollouts are lacking, we’re getting so many variations of singles. People don’t care to listen to album fully through or in order. So sad😭
They already are there were like 8 different versions of anti-hero and 7 versions of yes, and? It's getting ridiculous this is why music is becoming stale
Tyla's song was good, but the fact she got a grammy so easily when Ms.Mariah Carey only has 5 doesn't sit right with me at all! Daydream didn't win a single grammy (6 fucking nominations), neither did emotions (2 nominations) or music box (2 nominations) or fucking BUTTERFLY (3 nominations)! I know times were tougher back then but MAN, I will never not be bitter over Mariah's lack of grammys. We still hear this woman's music decades later, and not just the christmas song, Fantasy, obsessed and even it's a wrap had viral moments last year, and those songs came out over a decade ago! I keep telling myself its not important, but beyonce and Taylor being given grammies like it's water pisses me off (they deserve accolades, but some of the things that have been awarded most definitely did not deserve it! Midnights sucked!), esp cause their fanbase try to claim x is more talented than y because they have more grammys.
I understand the grammy argument, trust me I have a video discussing those discrepancies. To be fair tyla was in a genre that only so many folks get nominated for. I just think the comments towards tylas “low numbers” vs the Grammy is a kinda low blow
I remember when Taylor dropped her new album this year a lot of her fans were obsessed with how many records it broke. It felt like that was actually the most important thing to many and not actually how good the songs on it are
consumers and artists built the system where the musician’s worth is mainly measured by numbers. fans tend to project and take an artist’s success as their own. but i also want to point out that some fandoms work hard for their favorite artists to be seen in mainstream, like k-pop fandoms. i’m a big jungkook fan and i was happy that his first single’s big numbers put him in western market and made him more visible to the general public. sometimes streaming from a dedicated fandom can help genuinely 23:07 talented artist to reach the broader audience. however, i agree, very often for a fan the intention of streaming is to brag and feel more fulfilled which to me seems very unhealthy.
Thanks for pointing out this perspective, it can really be helpful for fans to support and stream their favs especially if it’s a solo debut or if they are newer, or truly love and believe in the single. But yeah it can really go both ways
Mainstream success is nice and all but I still would have preferred it if Jungkook had put out a more personal, authentic album instead of having zero credits and singing in English only - even on the B-sides, what's the point? I think it's attracting a more superficial kind of casual fans who are either not loyal or get attached to his mainstream-pop-persona which will be difficult to uphold.
The only other versions i perfer is extended, Instrumental, and Acappella because they have legit reasons for existing. From a Production, Vocal and extra pieces of a song that felt too short
That's why I hate when people compare "sales" to decide what artist deserve to be titled as better. Looking at someone like Tinashe gives you a perfect example of how a full well rounded ARTIST can sell less than other objectively less talented celebrities while still releasing 10/10 cohesive projects... I know I may be talking from the perspective of a fan, but it definitely tells you a lot about the "value" of those numbers
It's the honesty and realness for me! That's what I like about your content. I saw another reviewer saying they want artists to start making more than one version of a song the norm. Like, for what? Just make a new song, or finish marketing the old one 😅
I blame Billboard, the record labels and the fandoms for this issue! Billboard consistently changes the rules so this makes the artist and fans more number driven. Plus the record labels are barely promoting the artist now. If it wasn’t for Nicki fighting for streams to count towards sales back then, a lot of artist in today’s time would flop. A lot of artist in today time do not have a solid fan base to sale to unless your Taylor, Drake, Beyoncé, Nicki, Ariana … this is just to name a few but these artist sale and the fans would buy anything they put there name on. The current artist in today time haven’t really connect with their core audience. Hence, as to why their music isn’t selling even if it’s good. The artist in today’s time need to figure out their sound, experiment more, and take risk. And us as fans need to be more honest with the artist if the music isn’t good. Now everything sounds so mediocre.
The generation has a short attention span. Therefore it wants instant gratification. Artists are now judged by their first album. Their first week sales. Etc . I think what would help is if streaming numbers are no longer public. Just the chart ranks like billboard hot 100. Lastly, this a symptom of our hyper-capitalist world. We need a cultural revolution to evoke change in the way we consume literally everything. All the arts are suffering, sports, entertainment, work and career, food, infrastructure, clothes, education. It’s all pump and dump
Artists are gonna start going the kpop album route to boost pure sales, they’re already doing the multiple versions so including photobooks, photocards and other extra content is the next logical step to entice fans
She may not have said something herself, but her husband definitely spoke for her at the Grammy’s. Mad as hell at the academy for not giving her album of the year, meanwhile she has the most Grammys out of any artist. 😂
I feel like people have so much access to celebrities lives and numbers and it just furthers peoples parasocial relationships and makes them feel like they get to pocket watch or "bully" artists, like these are not your friends some people are way too comfortable getting on artists backs
and also they feel you can or should link your personal success to them, vicariously, as in: if your fav doesn't have a no. 1 or doesn't sell as much, they're a loser and so are you
just started but basically I think numbers don't make a good song. there are plenty of amazing songs and amazing artists who aren't doing huge numbers but make phenomenal music and there are a lot ass songs and ass artists doing huge numbers making subpar music. Numbers ≠ talent, it = popularity, and it's nice to make these achievements and reach these huge numbers of streams and stuff and as a fan you'll feel proud and want to brag but it doesn't mean that the artist is the greatest or is the best. Like Miley said when she won the grammy it's amazing that she did but her life was gonna be great either way, she was gonna make the music she loved and enjoy her life regardless. It's great to be awarded with these achievements but it doesn't make or break talent or success.
Great video!! I feel like people complain too much about an album making lots of vinyl colors/versions. The people who will buy them all are just collectors, a very specific niche. Most of the people who buys a vinyl or cd we just buy one.
I’m glad you mentioned the multiple versions of songs that artists are releasing at once. I’ve noticed this and it always overwhelmed me! I only listen to the standard version most of the time.
exactly. I think it sucks aswell for people who love listening to music, nowadays music is being treated like fast fashion. The quality of music has gone down and it pisses me off. I also hate when people tell you your favorite artist isn't valid bc they are lower on the leaderboard on spotify? Taylor swift fans literally tell me my fav artist is so irrelevant just bc he doesn't mass produce his music?? whatever. I feel like this is why artists like Brent faiyaz, and frank ocean have paused their music bc its getting cocky.
And I hate how the internet is trying do Tyla. The way they talked about her debut album. I thought it was going to be bad when I finally took a lesson for myself. I was surprised it put me onto her. Internet is very fickle though they praise you hate you next.
Is it me or did the obsession of sales really didn’t start until the 2010s? Seems like when all the pop girls were at their peak was when we started to obsess over sales like iTunes and Billboard and now Spotify. Back in the early 2000’s when Britney, Christina, and all the boy and girl groups were dominating, we only cared about TRL and it was because we wanted to watch their music videos. We knew rap and r&b was predominant at that time and many pop girls were either MTV stars like Britney who made iconic music videos and did iconic performances at the MTV awards or Disney stars. I feel like back then we cared how good of a singer or dancer they were, seeing them on magazine covers and tabloids, watching a special about them and watching them perform. I don’t even recall the Grammys even being big back then or the Super Bowl it was still dad rock dominated. Critics were still rocktimists and praising indie rock. Now it’s all about numbers whether it streams, charts, first week sales, Grammys being won, metacritic scores, touring gross and movie openings. Nobody is talking about the music or the performance or the talent anymore. Nobody is really doing anything iconic or really memorable when it comes to music or visuals or trying to be groundbreaking. It’s about who has the biggest fanbase and how big their selling and records their breaking.
I feel like you’re onto something! Like yeah, artists were selling but I don’t think numbers were either shoved in our face or consumers just didn’t care as much. We just wanted good music, great performances and star quality
I didn’t know streaming obsession was a thing until I got into one direction. I noticed it during the Story of my life when fans were trying to break records on RU-vid
@@CamrynSuzanne Pop was in a weird place at the 2000s. I think people are more obsessed with pop stars now because of poptimism. Pop singers especially female ones are being looked at more, authenticity is more important then ever now. Back in the 2000s pop singers weren’t nearly as respected as they are now. There was a shift in the late 2000s that caused a huge wave of female pop singers throughout the early 2010s and this forced critics to evaluate pop music differently to be respected more. Rock was on its dying legs. So the cultural zeitgeist was shifting to women taking over the industry now. This is why pop stars has been dominating the charts, the Grammys, the critics, the Super Bowl and now even vinyl interest. This could explain how Stan’s have been getting g more obsessed with charts and streams and awards and appearances. They all had to step their game up and now it’s the dominant genre. The pressure for female pop starts is a lot higher than for males.
I remember a fans war between Debbie Gibson and Tiffany back in the 1980s. They both ended up in Playboy as the last ditch efforts to revive their careers after Britney Spears showed up.
Lmao obsession with sales has ALWAYS been there. I remember NSync fans were obsessed with beating Backstreet Boys number wise. Micheal Jackson wanted to beat Thriller sales wise with Bad lol.
As a kpop fan, I have experienced the numbers game from way before. And see how more and more obsessive the stans have become with the numbers, rather than focus on the actual music, as the online streaming becomes more popular and accessible. Everytime your fave put out a music, it's your job to repeatedly stream the song and MV, all for the numbers. I don't think some stans even really are listening to the songs anymore - they've become bgm. It has become a chore, rather than a fan excitingly waiting for new music then listening to and enjoying it. If you don't do it, you're "not a real fan". I feel like some fans should really step back from the Stan culture. Take a break and then actually listen to the music - you will definitely find a new enjoyment for it that you're missing before or that you've forgotten.
god, you put all of my scrambled thoughts on this matter into actual words!! i absolutely think that being so number focused takes the fun out of music. i remember i had to take a break from kpop, mainly because of how it started to feel like being a stan was a job lol. once i realized how burned out i felt by just listening to music, i knew i had to take a step back from stan twitter and just ENJOY without someone telling me "we need to reach x amount of streams by the end of the day!!!"
Its getting wild out here. I grew up listening to artists who never had the same chances and numbers and they sound beyond their time and more cultivated. People are squandering the art of music for numbers 😢
Often times in these conversations do I see the finger being pointed at the artists, their fans and bots, but never the labels who are the ones really behind this need to boost sales whether you’re a smaller act or amongst the biggest of them. It’s a business at the end of the day and they’re gonna ensure they make back what they’re putting onto these artists by any means. I do think that Spotify should hide numbers though because the constant noise about someone flopping or being better than the next artist due to the numbers they’re pulling is annoying and causing good music to get lost in the shuffle OR become hated for no good reason depending on what the artist is able to achieve.
Fr cause for example Doja is making literal ART and her craft is so good but she doesnt care about streams she is just enjoying her own music which is fire
Me personally, I just love to see my favorite artists succeed and I think it's fun to see how many streams it gets. I don't know its a part of my morning and nighttime routine!
I think you summed it up perfectly at the end. For artists music is their livelihood and their careers. Its okay for them to want sales. But fans encouraging extreme overconsumption amongst themselves is crazy. Encouraging consumption in general is bad. Music was never about the "product" for me. I was relieved when we got streaming services and youtube because i wouldnt have to strain my ear on commercials to hear my favorite songs. Its never been and SHOULD never be our "job" to support artists. I have a job and I'm not doing any work I don't get paid for. Also, music, like any art form, needs time to be absorbed. Fast tracking "success" and not allowing releases to just sit with us is definitely killing music. People have already talked about how music is being designed for TikTok. Songs are shorter on average. Many don't have a proper bridge. Music shouldn't be designed for consumption but appreciation.
we need to also blame nicki minaj because she made streams count towards billboard charts which was,as we see now, a detriment to artists pockets (look at how much an artist gets paid per stream) and to the broader music consumption market as a whole
Hey Camryn I'm so glad you touched on this i personally wish there was a way to crackdown on this kind of stuff because when someone buys 10 versions of a song or album it doesn't feel genuine or authentic...It feels like cheating! Honestly the obsession with numbers is annoying i like a song because I like a song not because of how many copies it's sold
This situation also apply to Kpop as well, like since mid 2010s, the obsession of numbers, everyone wants their fav holding the most numbers, steam music video like that's their job, to making their favs become best Kpop group by numbers, and eventually the entertainment company of their favs also obsess with numbers, giving payola in each release, releasing bad music as their fans always eat what they feed, and their fans will bash other artist for lower sales and streams, automatically thinking that other groups are untalented, they messed up so bad, no one enjoys music atp
i know you said you wouldn't buy multiple versions of an album, but as a kpop gorl i love buying them solely for the fact that ((oftentimes)) the albums come with unique inserts ((photocards, posters, postcards, stickers)) along with unique photobooks and i love looking at pretty people with a concept lmao :,)
The difference between old stars and new stars is that they had real fan bases that helped generate authentic success without even knowing the numbers the artist was given unless announced by charts and even then people still didn't care if they knew. The new generation fan bases is built off of hatred and jealousy of other artists with views and number of sales. These fans are creating inauthentic success which is why artists sales drop every other release because they only like you when they want to "Compete" and "Hate" other artists.
Such an excellent and educational video. I personally can't afford their physical copies so I just use RU-vid (can't even afford Spotify like my friends) so this hits on a personal level for me.
Thank you!! Also, they can be sooo expensive. I’m open to buying g a vinyl but i also like to get use out of it and i don’t have a record player so i don’t see the point🙃
Very interesting conversation, I completely agree with everything you’ve touched on and I really enjoyed this video and your content. Keep up the good work b❤️🔥💯
I def agree with you 100% about the fixation on numbers. fans go way beyond what is respectful to not only the artist but to other artists. it's something I really hate about being a part of fandoms like the swifities because sometimes they can be very disrespectful to other stans and fans of other artists, go out of their way to compare them as if you can compare the art of successful artists anyways, and they always find a way to belittle other artists in terms of numbers and it just sucks the fun out of everything. Yes, I'm glad taylor swift is getting the numbers she's getting, she worked really hard for them and IMO deserves them, but I also wouldn't compare another artist who may have less streaming numbers and think less of them bc they're not at taylor's "level". I wouldn't go out of my way to compare her to like ariana grande or olivia rodrigo bc guess what, they all make amazing art and scrutinizing over numbers and basing your entire love for an artist on those numbers they produce, takes the meaning of the songs they write away. you take the fun out of listening to music for yourself and others and it's just overall annoying to see online looool I wish we weren't so fixated on numbers esp so blatantly online and publicly because I think we also tend to forget that there is a human behind those numbers. it's really odd to start associating your adoration, how much you feel they are worth, and your appreciation for their music, with numbers and numbers alone. I love looking at the sales and the streaming numbers, don't get me wrong, it's nice to see when your fav artist is doing great, just to anyone who goes beyond that in the ways mentioned in the video, please try and gain a new perspective on this cause it's not good to you, for others and the artists you're talking about online. peace and love ya'll
I hope artists in the future can be straight up with us and tell us how many copies do they need to sale of their albums to make a profit just like they do with movies so that the fans know how much to support
