Speaking as an attorney, I warned people many times to avoid consignments. But people who know more than me tell me I don't know what I'm talking about
Absolutely correct, unfortunately so many people become hard up and figure they’ll roll the dice. Can you imagine handing over hundreds of thousands of dollars to a complete stranger and “hoping” they’ll give it back to you at some point in the future?
Two red flags indicating trouble ahead: 1. A collector car is your “life savings”. 2. You are doing business with a person who keeps calling you “bro” but isn’t literally your brother.
@@derrickforealwould definitely be a full body mount if I got ahold of him but my buddy does absolutely beautiful taxidermy work!! I’m gonna get my money’s worth one way or another!!
Dan, I give Normal Guy major props for putting this out there. I know it sucks, but it really does shine a light on the integrity that NG Supercars has, and why novice/new owners of exotics or collectible cars need to do their research. Unbelievable really, wow.
I’m the buyer of this car and after talking with many lawyers and Texas laws and the contract he signed, (he also said lots of things wrong) that title belongs to me and Marcus is now being sued as well. This isn’t exactly like CNC and this video alone is making things worse for Marcus
Sounds like either you were both scammed or your involved. Not a contractual lawyer but he shouldn’t relinquish the title to you without fair and approved compensation. So seeing how he’s has received $0 from this sale…I see no reason why the title should be transfer to you. If anything you should be persuading a class suit with him against AlphaMotiv3! But do a video with your side. It appears that Alphamotiv3 has closed down, so I guess the scamming part was true.
Your TX laws don't apply in CA and vice versa. So he doesn't have to "fork the title over". Unfortunately, you both have a problem here. In the words of Vinwiki, always have one: the car, the money, the title. Both of you shouldn't fight each other. Go after the dealer.
I am sorry to throw shade on Marcus's story, but it appears to be a misrepresentation to describe his Mustang as a '67 Shelby GT500. No one would put that "Eleanor" hood, a painted bumper, painted trim (like the taillight surrounds), or the fake Halibrand rims, on a genuine '67 GT500. The gas filler cap on the sail panel indicates major modifications to the original setup, with a filler cap between the taillights. The flush-fitting quarter panel and sail panel scoops are all wrong as well. What this is, is a garden variety '67 that's been heavily restomodded. Also, there's no such thing as a "65 1/2" Mustang anything, and no '65 Shelby GT350 came in red.
I don’t wanna judge Mark but there were lots of red flags. Why did he not track his car periodically? He would’ve seen the joyriding of his car earlier. He could have taken possession of his car before it left the state. When they said the dealership was under construction and he felt weird, he should’ve gone and put eyes on his car. If my car was in Texas and I had not received money I would’ve flown to Texas and taken my car back. Especially since his life savings is in that one asset. Man, I feel for him. 😢
** HEADS UP SHELBY OWNER ** I may be wrong, you may have another problem complicating this issue. I have a prior experience with a Texas titled vehicle I bought out of California from a “Dealer”. I received the Texas title signed over to the California “dealer”. I tried to get registration and title in Louisiana where I live and the Texas title was rejected as it was “flagged”. Here’s the kicker: In Texas, the Texas owner was able to register the vehicle AND get a Texas title WITHOUT a signed over title from the previous owner solely on the basis of a Bill of Sale. When this happens the Texas DOT “Flags” the Title and it appears on the new Texas Title like a branded title. Presumably, the flag stays on the title for 2 years I think giving a legitimate owner time to dispute ownership and reclaim the vehicle. After 2 years, the “New” owner can request the “Flag” be removed if no dispute has revealed itself during that time. Flag removal is not automatic. In my case, I had to hunt down the Texas owner and beg him to go to the Texas DOT and file to remove the flag on the vehicle as he was still listed as the owner in Texas and the 2 year waiting period had expired. Once the flag was removed, the Texas owner mailed me the new “unflagged” freshly signed over title and the Louisiana DOT had no issue registering and issuing title on the vehicle. I am bringing this to your attention because the new Texas owner CAN register AND title the Shelby with only a bill of sale which appears he has in his possession. You need to get in touch with the Texas DOT asap. I don’t know what you need to work with them. I think it may involve a stolen vehicle report for the Texas DOT to block the Texas titling of the car. Good Luck.
He said he filed an "incident report" not an actual stolen car report. That's legally still his car since he's still the one registered to it and if he can't get a hold of his car and hasn't been paid then it's stolen. The first call he should have made was to a lawyer and have them contact the police, cops really are that incompetent sometimes or just don't want to deal with the situation and deal with paper work, most of them don't care , I had a car stolen last month and they didn't want to look at video footage or anything.@@normalguysupercar
My guess is, since buyer had some sort of "bill of sale" a other bs paperwork, they couldn't do it, and that pushed it to become a "civil" matter...for the moment
yes, he should have sent the cops to the dealer not the other guy's house. Then said their was a tracker on it but it wasn't at the dealers. They would have to look for the car then impound it as it was stolen property.
I don't buy the police "not being able to do that". With a halfway decent lawyer it would be a simple process to get a court order for the vehicle to be returned. All the evidence & power remains in the lawful title holder's possession.@@normalguysupercar Of course it wouldn't be cheap, but I imagine the costs would be nowhere near the value of the car.
I wouldn't read into the kindness very much as much as to what would be correct actions and protocols moving forward. He is already set back 200k it wouldn't need be go back any further by stupid threats that may cost even more setbacks and jail or prison time. Kinda obvious and admiral that he is able to contain his rage not acting out in full revenge "Hello to my little friend".
These guys consigning their cars should realize that ; they do not know the actual financial health of the dealer, or that the guy could easily be in the middle of planning a few deals, waiting for a nice bank account balance to accrue, then taking off to Brazil (or wherever) and leaving all his troubles behind. Maybe I’m cynical but that’s the first thing that enters my mind when I even contemplate these types of deals. The Normal Guys are pretty much the only ones I’d trust to manage this.
Dealing with this at a local dealership that went under myself. More common than you think. Lawyers are being engaged, fun times. Sorry for the troubles my man, people suck.
yes .wonder how many are going to get burned on the resale flips of the demon 170s ? the cars are all over ebay motors , some cars are not built or shipped any high $ im going to go look at it
Dan, you need to do more videos of these shady places. Bring these places to light. Without some of these platform I would never know which place would be shady and thanks again for making this video
The catch is it's not something I go out and seek. And most people that come to me asking for help aren't willing to tell their story on camera. I'm not going to make accusations as then I'm at risk.
@@normalguysupercar what’s crazy is how long these things take to get to an arrest. I mean you rob a bank and arrested immediately, you steal through deception, you’re allowed to continue doing business for months, even years. Wtf 😳
The buyer won't be held liable and will have the right to legal title BECAUSE he purchased from a seller who normally deals in this type of product. The exception would be if the buyer was party to the fraud.
When the car crossed state lines, using a bank wire for funds transfer, it became a Federal case, Id speak with the DOJ, they will lock the dealers doors, impound everything including his personal assets, then they'll seize the car. This is business not personal...ALWAYS KEEP THE TWO SEPARATE!
A similar thing happened to a car friend through a very well known SF bay area collector car consignment shop. They sold the car, but didn't pay him. A few months later, despite being warned, the car was sold by Mecum. And again, it ended up being offered by a collector car consigner/reseller, this time in the Mid-West. This time, it was on Ebay.
I knew the brothers from the auto auctions, and their dad was a scammer too. The brothers have both been kicked out of most auctions here in soCal, JP especially. JP always wanted to be the cool guy, and was such a con, I'm truly surprised how many fell for his bs. You can hear his con in his voice. I really hope the real owners of the vehicles get their property recovered, and the brothers get what's coming to them.
Happened to me in 2016. These dealers have a “floor plan” loan. They get behind in payments and their bank takes over their bank account so any money you wire them gets seized by the bank and you have no recourse.
These kinds of shenanigans with classic cars have brought down a lot of the "consignment" businesses including some of the largest classic vehicle auction houses around.
Sorry to hear of this very unfortunate situation. Being very familiar with consignments, I believe it is very likely that an Innocent Buyer is entitled to keep the car and your only recourse is with the dealer.
dang I feel bad for this guy. it sucks because these scammers are hidden in plain sight with their nice dealerships and fancy websites make it seem like everything is going well for the guy, only to be fooled. A guy can get locked up same day for stealing a car from a parking lot but this guy takes around a million bucks and will be years before he ever sees a punishment.
The problem with these dealerships is that you have to be extremely well capitalized to do this type of business, if you have multiple transactions occurring concurrently managing cash flow is almost a full time job and a lot of these dealerships are trying to do the accounting themselves. Then you add in dealerships that are buying and selling as well as consigning and using sales of consignments as cash flow and it just becomes very complex even without the intent of fraud. If you are considering doing consignment I would ask a bunch of questions on how financial management is done and if funds are separated.
As a dealership owner, you should never allow funds from consignment transactions to be used for anything other than the consignment transaction until it's fully settled.
I bought a car from these guys last spring. I remember asking Byron during the test drive if they owned all the cars in their show room and I specifically mentionted CNC motors. He laughed and said "oh that guy, no bro we own our cars." It took 4 months for me to get the title to my car after I bugged him almost daily and threatened getting a lawyer. He never did fix everything he said he would on the car too. He went dark on my around September 2023. I feel fortunate I got the title to the car I purchased.
It just seems to me, given some of the examples here and at CNC that ownership is primarily responsible for not letting things get out of hand. Consignment or not, strict time limits, more retrictive paperwork and time frames would help. But ultimately the owner of the car to sell has to be diligent and attentive to the details of the agreement.
sounds like a vinwiki story , keep us posted , I was going to have a transport co haul my airstream to Arizona kinda having 2nd thoughts might not ever see it again
There’s a basic car fact. You can sell your car online just as easily as anyone else. I have sold several cars and high performance SUVs. I never release the vehicle until the wire is clear in MY account. With the internet no need to consign, although you do have to work a little
@@normalguysupercar can you imagine being scammed out of one of your guys dealership cars the setback that would make. Both financially to the business and to you and Josh and Meg. I hope they can get it sorted out.
Did he say the consignment was 7%? Isn't that unusually low? When I've considered in the past, I read online that 20-25% is common, which seems ridiculously high to me.
In my town, people have gone missing for messing with the wrong car. My dad taught me to never touch a man's car; especially in this town. Dad said, "Son, these folk have put their hard earned money into their vehicles. If you touch the wrong car, they will beat you into paste and I will stand there and let them. Do you understand?" This mining town is full of people that have very little patience...
I've been in the car business a long time and just recently in the last 10 years I've heard of 5 or more dealerships pulling weird stunts like this and ending up out of business within a year or two what goes around comes around eventually.. All the guy had to do was wait for a higher offer instead of selling it short and robbing one peter to pay paul
The guy in California is guilty of theft by conversion. The guy is Texas is guilty of possession of stolen property. Get California to charge the first one. File a stolen vehicle report. Send the guy is Texas a demand letter to return the car. If he does not, send the stolen car report from California to the SAPD and have the car impounded, or pay to have it repossessed by a private party.
Always keep two out of the following three in your possession until the deal is closed: The money. The Title. The Vehicle. This reminds me of when I was somewhat scammed by SourceMotors our of Huntington Beach. Same type of personality - very charismatic, very communicative. When my truck arrived, (luckily) it required $2500 in repairs just to pass state inspection and it had knock-off parts installed on it despite those specific brandname items (wheels) being listed in the bill of sale. Oh and then the engine exploded less than 1500 miles after delivery.
Damn I feel for this guy! If it were me I’d have flown to Texas and waited for the car to be driven out for a weekend or similar from the garage then just casually taken my keys and driven off in my car. Considering if you have possession and a title then it’s not stealing whatsoever as long as you don’t break into the guys house to steal it. Hell could pay a “Good Samaritan” a grand to break into the house and drop the car down the road for you from the guys house. I feel bad for the new “owner” being scammed out of money but damn gotta look after your own interests first. Imagine the new “owner” being stuck pursuing litigation so just ships the car off overseas where it can be registered with the VIN and making his money back that way. Safe to assume police coming to his door and looking at the car means he knows there’s a tracking device on it and has removed it.
IT's NOT a gray area! It would be THEFT. You give your car to a criminal under an agreement called a consignment. That doc gives the criminal both REAL and APPARENT AUTHORITY to sell your car. He sells your car. You no longer have any title or interest in the car. PERIOD. THere's no GRAY in this area at all. Your sole recourse is against the consignee. It sucks, but the law protects the VIGILANT, and the VIGILANT simply do not consign their "supercars" with criminals. PERIOD. Where's the "grey area" in this law?
Sad fact is most dealerships just barely stay within the law with their shady business practices. I once worked at a dealership and those with low / bad credit ratings are the ones usually taken advantage of the most.
This guy needs to file a stolen vehicle report with the San Antonio PD. While the guy in possession of the dar sent money to the scumbag in California, he does not have legal possession of the car. The title owner is the legal owner of the car. Why he hasn't engaged with an attorney is beyond me. I live 30 miles north of San Antonio. Send me a key, let me know where the car is, and I'll go get it.
@@normalguysupercarbut he made it more complicated. He was too nice. As soon as he tracked his car he should have physically taken it back. He has physical possession and the title. It’s the buyer’s problem. He should have never taken possession of car without title.
Yeah he needs to go get his car asap. Between the police showing up and this video, I'll be really shocked if that tracker doesn't disappear as well as the car. It won't be visible from the street much longer and once it's inside a fence or behind a door then it REALLY gets complicated.
CAREFUL! You're verging on CONSPIRACY, both criminal and civil. The law will see two potential "losers" here. Will it be the guy who, in good faith, bought from another guy who held the car, the title, and the consignment agreement admittedly signed by the owner? Or will it be the owner who TRUSTED a criminal, GAVE him the car, the title, the keys, AND signed an agreement giving him all legal authority to transfer title to the car to anyone in the world? aND, who then failed to keep an eye on the transaction? THe answer should be obvious.
ANY time you hand your car to anyone...it is a risk...but handing it off to a consignment shop...you have a "greater than 50% chance" of losing your car...would NEVER leave a car with a consignment dealer...too many stories like this one...Hope it all gets resolved.
The S.A. guy is lucky you didnt show up & repo car right there. Me myself idk woulda been hard to let them know about tracking w/o finding info on the guy who has it 8n possession
Of course people start commenting on their instagram… but those comments are now deleted. No not shady at all trying to hide it. Unfortunately this kind of situation happens too often.
First red flag: anyone who calls me "bro" doesn't get to do business with me. We're supposed to be adults, let's talk like it. Anyway, I'd like to hear a followup from you (maybe another video, maybe address it in the live tomorrow) as to things that a buyer can do to protect themselves when buying a consignment car. I mean, other than just asking if a car that you're interested in is on consignment or dealer-owned, and then asking to see the physical title as part of the PPI, what else can you do? Would that even be a reasonable request? I mean, obviously even if the car is dealership-owned there's nothing but morality that would keep them from basically selling it more than once, assuming that they could convince someone to pay for it without taking immediate delivery. I mean, I feel like I'd trust you guys, but only because I've been watching your videos since your first F430 oil change and you have come across over the years as honest. I feel like I'd probably trust an authorized/official Ferrari dealer, only because I assume that they do a pretty decent job of vetting their dealers before letting them join the family. But I'm not sure who else I would trust. As you've said, even large and established dealers like CNC can go bad. I am reminded of Ed Bolian's adage that in a car transaction, no single party gets to hold the vehicle, the title, and the money. But even when someone has traded the money for the vehicle they can still end up screwed.
That’s a crappy situation and I empathize for anyone dealing with something similar, but he didn’t exactly “sell it from underneath you”. You told him to sell it, you agreed on a price, and he sold it for less money and never gave you the money that you rightfully deserve. That’s just him not paying you after selling the car, not selling it from under you.
Not to mention is it heartbreaking for the owners. But also to the registries of the precious way to few of, Shelby. It puts a stain on the legacy of those cars for their future. I hate that greed with selfish, evil inconsiderate MFr's. It saddens me that were at a point in time where things like this can occur and 80% of the time it ends up in civil court with a judgement that takes yrs to collect. If you even get any of it back. So your out your baby, your investment and most of the time, life savings. Receiving nickels on the dollar a month for many yrs. Just to recover some of the funds. I'm sorry to hear this for that gentleman. Especially those 3 cars being some of the finest vehicles Ford and Mr Shelby produced. Cars that in no way possible can be replaced. They're not out there to replace them with. Lesson learned. Of that's any consolation. Thanks for sharing
It seems like it is getting to the point of needing to be a "notarized" transaction ; that is, meet with a attorney and do a closing like a real estate transaction! Once you turn over the "keys" (and the car) , you are open to fraud . It is just to to tempting for unethical folks. Trust..... was his first mistake. The process needs to protect both parties!
Consignment has risks and private sales are a lot of work, got it. Where do auctions fit in? The large auction houses aren’t skipping town, they’re capitalized, and sellers get their money…
I had this happen to me but with a theater performance. They owed me 5500 in CC sales they took in. They gave me a story of some medical bills they had to pay and a new show was coming the next week and would pay me from that. I wish they hadn't told me that but they did so I called the show they planned on paying me from and warned them they were planning on paying me with their money. So I never got paid. I couldn't knowingly let somebody else fall prey so I could be paid.
Also, if you have a issue like this, with a company selling your car.. and they play games.. report it stolen and deny anything related to selling it. If the cops go to the car, and the buyer doesn’t have any paperwork.. they have to take the car from the person in possession by law. Let the buyer point the cops to the seller, when he can’t prove you received your funds, the car still belongs to the title holder… So next time you find your car, or haven’t seen the money or car, REPORT IT STOLEN.. DO IT NOW! If it comes across a cop, in traffic stop, it will be towed, you will get it back
It shocks me that these shady dealers dont end up in the ground pullingd stunts like this. You never know the type of person you are screwing over...very risky pulling crap like this.
Regardless of consignment dealer promises or flashy auctions etc if you sell a mustang through a mustang forum or page or a classic car site that’s free like car&classic you have YOUR car and if someone WANTS it badly they will buy it. Better to answer awkward questions or deal with idiots that want to know how old the air in the tyres is than kiss it goodbye for free 🥷🏿
Will a consigner allow you to keep the keys to the car so when a perspective buyer comes by, you can show up with the key and meet the perspective buyer with the consigner? It would go without saying that would be a lockout of some kind. What the hell do I know, I would never be able to afford a $250k car?
If I had a car like that dont think I could handle letting it leaving my possession, hope it works out for the real owner and the scammer gets shut down.
If you won’t hand a stranger 150 grand in cash to manage, don’t give them your car. It’s literally the same thing. This is why I sold at Barrett Jackson. I knew what my car was worth, the buyers knew what it was worth and it sold for more than my bottom number. Cash in hand is better than a life lesson!
I'm not a "car" guy... like many of you all, but do like em. My question is for you experienced people, why, with a 200k+ vehicle, would you not run it thru a reputable auction as opposed to a consignment place? Personally i wouldn't leave my 09 sun faded challenger at someone's place to sell on consignment. At the very least im thinking ferris Buehlers day off, and the worst...well....
@normalguysupercar so, consignment, then is a normal thing in the high end car business, this was just exceptional? At least he tagged his car before he left it. 👍🏼
This is why the law boggles my mind. If I don't pay a speeding ticket, they're going to get the money or me. This guy was robbed of hundreds of thousands. Where's the action?
He needs to stop trying to change or save the criminals, stop warning him/them about his next step, and physically repossess the car with the authoritys at his side imediately. Fly there, get court order support, and get it done.
