As maintenance carpenter for 42 years at a university, I used a trimmer ( router ) ten times more than full size. Especially with laminates, veneers, rounding and dressing edges👍
That's why they call them trim routers or palm routers. For me, I grab my 2.25hp, and my router table with another 2.25hp at least 2x as much as a trim router. It's faster for me to run 1/2 dados on my festool along the track than even using the table saw. My trim router sits there waiting, watching my of-1400 put in work, waiting to trim the edge of something for about 10 minutes before beginning the finishing process. If it tries much more, the hardwoods laugh @ it.
Absolutely right, it does 90% of all I need. I mounted my big 3 hp router permanently in my router table. Haven’t used it freehand in years. The best thing I ever did, though, was to trade my corded palm router for cordless. FREEDOM!!
I’ve recently started using my wood working tools again. (Cancer patient) diagnosed me into retirement. I’m using a table saw, chop saw, 10” planer and now I’m ready to break out my router… I’m going to build a table for it and yes… it’s full size. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. I’m ready to start making saw dust
Same with me...Bone Cancer.MM,,made myself a Chainsaw Mill , Milled a 6 ft log into live edge slabs now gettin a Palm Router to make signs during the Winter. Good Video.. and Good luck to you and your Treatment Sir ! Cheers from Canada
Salute gentlemen. Best of wishes. Don't let life keep you from sawing to your hearts content! Broke my back last year in a freeway roll incident. Honestly feel lucky to be here. And even more lucky that I can still walk, carry wood, and do my thing! I'm currently working on innovating my finishing process. I'm using Mixol brand pigments/dye or whatever. It's coming along well. I've been using it in a custom oil mix: 2- parts d-limonene, 1 part pure tung, 1 part raw linseed. I then put a dash of 99% isopropyl to initiate pigment mix, then add oil, shooting for 2/3 oil mix. Then I do a seal coat of shellac mixed with pigment too. (My shellac uses 99% isopropyl, because california) though it is healthier. I like the process so far, but I'm wanting to remove the oil from the equation. I'm worried about glue adhesion on pre oiled pieces. I'm looking to combine different finishes in a single product. I wouldn't say it's cheap. But this is some fun tinkering that has elevated my work and overall knowledge in an area I've always felt behind on.
A good video! One thing to note to folks is that square bases are far too prevalent in palm routers. People seem to not be aware that a round base is tremendously better for a base, as it is not sensitive to small shifts when, for example, following a guide rail when cutting a rabbet. Using a flat edge, even the smallest accidental shift on a square base will move the bit further from the rail, while with a round base you can spin it and the distance never changes. I'm kind of amazed that the basic Bosch Colt has a square base!
YES! The flat sides on bases are making their way into full-sized routers, too. They're very unforgiving and (in my opinion, pointless). The Thoughtful Woodworker (Willy Sandry or Fine Woodworking fame) did a video on this over the weekend: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A3dEw_-NFRo.htmlsi=7BIkEL9axJm3i29E
@@WorkshopGregI fully agree, I just wanted to call out the honor of you calling the square base "pointless". Edit: dammit autocorrect, we *both* know that was supposed to be "humor."
If you get yourself a centering cone and properly center up the base plate. Unfortunately I think there's a lot of people out there using round based routers and not realizing the distance can shift a little as you rotate it
Here's the rub with all that. Routers aren't perfectly centered on thier bases. So turning 90 degrees can totally change your cut along a straight edge. Many pros will actually tell you to make sure your router has 1 flat side to use as a reference along a straight edge for perfect repeatability. My festool even slots onto the track to remove anyone's quarrels. Literally can't mess that up unless you try. This is also why you need a centering tool when installing a collet.
Also, don’t forget the palm router may be better for ladies whom may have smaller hands. Like me. I’m reading the comments and I’m convinced this is the way to go! Thanks!
I use my trim routers almost daily in the shop, but I do have a full size router on my router table. It’s an absolute workhorse in the router table. It’s all about using the right tool for the job.
I love the palm router on site. Even for most DYI projects you’re absolutely right with going with a palm router. If you’re going with a long use definitely use corded, I’ve used battery a lot and too often the battery starts to die before I realize it and you can tell with the tear out and poor cutting.
With my cordless DeWalt, if the battery dies, the router doesn't gradually slow down, it simply stops immediately. It hasn't been an issue at all in my experience.
Although this is an old video, I'd like to say that my full-size router allows me to face-joint and edge-joint my boards and this is very handy because I do not have access to a jointer, thickness planer or a table saw and to be honest, using a handheld planer for this is an absolute pain in the rear end because lumber is usually bowed and warped. A palm router is just not up to the task for those applications.
Spot on - I use the trim router for 90% of my work, and only bring out the daddy router when I need to use my router table. Trim routers are definitely easier and safer for some situations where a full sized router would be too hard to control.
Thanks for another helpful and empowering video, Ethan. I’m a one-handed woodworker so I’ve only used palm routers, but I’ve always wondered if I was missing something not being able to manage a full-size router. I do pretty simple stuff and this video confirmed that the router I have (Milwaukee M18 Compact Router) is all I need. Thank you.
My best friend is a world class master craftsman furniture maker and has 30 routers from trim to 3 and a half hp set up for verious functions... He uses the big ones as much as the small ones...
Yep.. Started off as a carpenter for 10 years with only the larger Bosch router but about 5 years ago, I got the palm router about and sooooo much more convenient. In addition, the larger router can be a lot to handle when you are first starting out. The smaller one enables confidence and skill at the same time.
I think a bonus to this is to a get battery powered brushless one. So powerful and with the battery you just grab it and use it to round those edges. No need to fuss with the wires, that are specially annoying when using a router
I'll note that DeWalt makes a plunge base that fits both the corded and cordless trim routers they sell. It's model DNP612. 3x3 Custom also sells an advanced trim router plate kit that can do multiple tasks like edge guides and circle cutting, and Katz-Moses tools has a compact router table that the kit works with and you can buy as a combo.
When I began working in the maintenance dept. at the local university we had a Makita trim router that was extremely handy for not only trim but mortising out hinge and latch mortise's in doors. Loved it. But as you might imagine, with the diverse cast of characters in the dept. it didn't last nearly as long as long as it should have. 👍🍻
So good to watch! I bought a big one and it’s never been used other than trying it out! A trim router is so much easier and does everything and more that I need! I wish I knew before I ‘wasted’ £150 on my biggie. Bob England
I'm fairly new to woodworking...and if you watch all the different woodworking channels here on RU-vid they usually say to get the bigger router in the beginning. That said I own a palm and a 2hp one and I have used the bigger one the last 8 months less then I have fingers on one hand....I use the palm router constantly. I couldn't agree more with your advice. Thanks for vid! 😊
Great video! I bought a full-size router a few years ago and found it heavy and intimidating to use. I hardly ever used it. I recently purchased a cordless palm router and love the thing. I wish I bought the litte one first. I'll probably mount the full-size router in a table, though, so it's all good. :)
Excellent subject spoken of. I have both a palm and full size router, like you I reach for the palm router more so for the examples you explained in this video. Even though my full size router is mounted in my router, it's so much easier and faster to grab the palm router versus puling out and setting up the table mounted full size router. Great video, keep them coming.
Once again you're spot on the money. A trim router is an easy tool to use and quite useful. The kind of tasks you want to do on a full size router is often going to come down to some kind of support / jig / table , etc. So it's not typically the kind of tool you pick up and free hand. So the learning curve imho is one of the biggest in the shop.
I bought a large plunge router for routing wiring channels in subfloors when building a house 30 years ago. In recent years, I almost never use it, and, when I do, my old arms remind me I'm not as strong as I used to be. I've been thinking of selling it and buying a smaller one. Your video is the push I needed. Thank you.
Routing wiring into subfloors... this doesn't sound like it meets building code. Unless your layering 4 sheets of plywood together and dropping full electrical boxes in the floor. I've done that for Apple and Microsoft stores. But my mind is heading towards a 3/8" channel routed into 3/4 ply. Here is what Google has to say on a quick search. Run wires through floor joists. Running electrical wires between the subfloor and the surface layer of flooring is not safe, but you can run them under the subfloor itself. To do this, you will need to make holes in the subfloor, and the best place to do this is through the bottom plates of walls.
@@brandonhoffman4712 This was in a loft floor. No joists. The building inspector told me how to do it. Wire channels were routed into T&G pine 2x6, the ceiling of the living are below. 3/4 T&G plywood on top, carpet on top of that.
Right on man....thanks! I recently bought a Ridgid palm router with a 1/4 in sheet sander, both corded but both brushless motors, for a total price of like $99. It was an online deal and comes with their lifetime service agreement!! I've seen so many vids of people saying "Skip the palm routers and go for the full sized, plunging routers." and as a beginner, that didn't really resonate with me. I'm not going to be doing a lot of router work, more like what you said, rounding off edges and corners and maybe some sign making, detail work. So the smaller router really appealed to me. Now I just gotta get some bits and make some saw dust. Some of those bits in your vid looked like the "KOWOOD Router Bits" I found on Amazon. They have a 35 bit set for only $53 but I'm not sure if that's even a good brand or not. Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you "get what you pay for" in bits or are they all pretty good these days? thanks again! EDIT - DOH just noticed in your description, you're linking to the Kowood bits. haha
I always use my 18V Makita DRT50 palm router. I dont worry for fingers as they include a dust adapter which also acts as a cover. Its a plexi, so I see whats happening without fear of shortening my fingers. Also, it have a collar for 6 and 8mm bits, but Ive bought a set of 6mm Bosch bits on sale, so 8 doesnt see much use. I agree that it can replace bigger router till you know youll need extra passes. For T groove its better to cut into depth with straight bit, then use T bit, so you dont smoke your router motor. Makita also sell loads of bases from on the angle to one you see on full size routers.
Yep, added a trim router to my arsenal in 1993 or 94.. and found it kept up SO well with 90% of trim work - and I now have added 4 more of these little guys to my tool chest. I still use a full size router.. especially for template pattern cuts and deep shaping.. it does the heavy lifting MUCH better.. and for the past 25 years or so.. now resides in my router table for good. To your point: I had a beginning woodworking guy next door.. he used his trim router for 2 + years - before finally having to add a full size router to his router table. Great subject and video.
I was thinking about getting a palm router for my hobby work, but I came across a router attachment for my father's old Dremel rotary tool. It was a plunge router attachment that fits most Dremel models. I bought it for around $30 a few years ago and it has allowed me to do everything I was needing a router for. It isn't as powerful as a normal palm router, but it is a very convenient attachment for a tool I already had as a beginner. I've also had a good experience with Dremel's router table attachment as well. Just sharing some of my experience as a beginner.
I somewhat agree. I have a 3 1/2 hp Milwaukee in my router lift. Use it most of the time because it is just so easy to set up and use. I also have dust collection hooked to it. I’ll use the Bosch 1617 when I have to plunge. But my DeWalt palm does come in handy. It’s the second most used router in my shop.
Truly great video, and 100% true. I have not used my fill size router in years. Ever since makita released their brushless palm router with added plung base. I find the full size router over kill. The right tool for the right job. It is like using a fullsize hammer drill to assemble cabinet when a compact impact or assembly drill does the job.
Thanks very much for the advice Ethan. One more thing you might have mentioned was not needing to remove your full size router from the router table. That's one thing that keeps me from using my router as often as I would like to. I wasn't trying to criticize, it's just something you might have mentioned. However, after your video I think I may just buy a palm router. Thanks again. 😊😊😊
you hit the nail on the head with two points: pre-milled lumber and modern, simple joinery. If you (like me) mill your own rough lumber and work with a lot of hard wood stock, a full sized router is essential for many projects, as it a router table. In fact, I've recently stepped up to a shaper/moulder and can now machine my own trim stock, flooring, nosings, window and door frames, etc.
Bought the fat lip belt and stronghold suspenders on your recommendation. Thanks again I’ve been wearing it for a little over a month daily it’s great!
I bought a Makita set that came with a plunge base, standard base, offset base, parallel guide, and a few other things i forget plus a nice bag that holds all of it. It even works with my track saw rails. It does everything i need so far and more!
With the small base of the palm router, there are many after-market /DIY plates you can make out of perspex, aluminium, ply with a larger footprint to replace the suppplied base
I’m a hobby/diy/amateur woodworker. I have had nothing but a Bosch Colt. I just bought a full sized Bosch just like this with the soul intention of putting it in a router table.
As a beginning woodworker, I already have three routers: one full sized Bosch and two cordless Palm routers: Dewalt AND Makita palm. The three together cost half the price of one pro level portrait lens for 35mm format photography (~$1200). Two years ago I had zero tools and went on a tool buying spree. I have used every single tool I bought even though I have little time for woodworking. As a hobby woodworking is relatively inexpensive and highly rewarding as your skills develop. Don't shy away from buying quality basic tools. A full size router is a basic tool for woodworking, believe it or not.
For years, I used a corded sear craftsman Industrial laminate router...after 30+ years it did its best impression of an Ace Frehley guitar solo...I replaced it with an M18 Milwaukee. The #1 bit I use, is a 1/4" roundover bit to ease edges...I've made various base plates for it to do specific purposes. And I still have my Sears industrial 1/2" 15 amp plunge router for heavier work...but its seldom used for field work.
Oh my God. This is so true. I finally sold my Mikita 2 3/4 horse power router a couple of years ago. I use my small routers now. And they do everything I need. Another good vid with good info. And I was a carpenter for 20 years!
-Budding- Blossoming DIYer and new sub here, and I must say, I didn’t even knew these existed. This opens up a whole new world, and does so effectively to my space and wallet. Thank you so much.
I have the DeWalt full size, adjustable speed router kit, with plunge base and D-handle base. I used the plunge base for a few projects when I first bought the kit. I still have it, but now have the 20V cordless with fixed and plunge bases. The fixed base has a dial for simple, fast depth adjustments. For repeating cuts, the plunge base is the bees knees. The new powerstack batteries really lighten up the unit, and the 5ah powerstack really turns it into an all day affair, or for a little extra umph when dealing with hardwoods. I'm only holding on to the full size router motor for a New Yankee Workshop style router table in the future.
I bought a craftsman router in the 1970’s. I still have it but rarely use it because it is hard to handle. Thanks for bringing up the topic of the pup routers. Might get one if I really ever have a need.
Thank you so much for this! I still have trouble with heavier tools but was worried that if I got a palm router I'd be paying to upgrade 6 months later.
I agree. Had a full-size Bosch for years and bearly used it. Then last year I finally bought a Makita cordless palm router and what should I say: I never had so much fun routing. I'll convert the full-size one into a router table next.
I use both a large router and a palm router depending on what needs to be done. Large routers are great once you get comfortable with it. However, i mostly use my palm router for the reasons you mentioned.
The one thing that I like about the full size router versus the palm router is dust collection. I don't know why but that seems like a standard feature on full size routers, and darn near absent on the palm sized ones.
I was gifted a bosh full sized 1/4 inch router. I’ve never really used it as it’s big and cumbersome for the profiles etc that I wanted to do. I’ve thought about palm routers but struggle to justify buy in a second 1/4 inch router . But …. If I actually use it rather than it gathering dust maybe it’ll be worth while. Great video ! Thanks very much
I've got a big 1/2" collet router which nowadays is mainly used for worktops. Everything else I do with laminate trimmer. It's the standard medium-sized 1/4" router which I have no use for and consequently, have never owned.
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Thank you sir, I just bought a palm router (rigid brushless) I'm new to using the tool but found it easy to handle and look forward to learning how to use it and gain more understanding on all the bits and how they can make projects better. Really enjoy your channel and wish I had you as a mentor for a few weeks couldn't imagine how much better you could make me. 😂
6:40 FYI the DeWalt trim router also ships with an 8mm collet (besides the 1/4”)…8mm bits are not common, but do exist and are obviously mid way in robustness between 1/4” and 1/2”.
I recently got one at Harbor Freight so I can cut out spaces for hinges on interior doors. Once I’m finished I’ll give it to my daughter and her husband. If I ever need it again, I can easily borrow it from them. 😉
I am a woodworker, not a carpenter. I have three routers. A full size plunge, a router table, and a DeWalt trim router. I use that trim router 90+% of the time over the other two. And, if I really feel the need for a plunge router, the DeWalt came with a plunge base I can just swap to. I've not used my full size plunge in years.
from experience i can say that palm routers are far more forgiving as they are lightweight and easy to handle. plus as a beginner a big advantage i got is that i was able to mount it on my cnc router easily and let the machine do most of job. i got myself Makita RT0700c which has a speed control. its better to go with something that has speed control as starting off with slow speed gives you more control and it is less intimidating.
I'm a property mgr that likes to get his hands dirty and keep learning! So i picked up one of these mini routers when we needed to change out some doors. So thankful I found one for like$40 used and works like a charm.
I love the freedom of the cordless palm router but i found the extra battery weight sometimes cumbersome, but moist of the time i can live with it. Great video.
Great video. Growing up in the 70's I don't think palm routers were a thing outside of maybe specialty applications, so everyone just bought routers and that's what I have. But you made a great case, palm routers are better for my typical use. It would store in less space too.
i've got a little milwaukee M18 router and there's actually another secret upside to these tools: it's small enough that it, it's wrenches, and a simple bit kit can just sit in a toolbag with a bunch of other stuff i'm already bringing to every jobsite anyway. the full size never got brought anywhere until we needed it. which usually meant the day AFTER we actually needed it. (poor planning i guess) i've yet to run into a problem the little one couldn't solve and it's actually THERE when that problem arises.
A great video. And you have finally done something about the sound quality. Great improvement. No reverb and ecoooo. I have a Makita palm router and it does my DIY perfect. Powerful enough. Only problem are the collets. 1/2 inch is 6,35 mm and in Europe we use 6mm. So got to buy new collets for all these American/Chinese bits.
I've been making custom baseboards as I'm renovating my house. Palm router is just so much easier for me to control during the continuous 10 foot runs that I've been doing.
One bad thing about trim routers, no plunging capability. Does anyone make a small plungeable router? Everyone I have seen of the small trim routers you cannot adjust as you are using them, rather they need the basic set up to a determined depth, lock it and then run it, thus you cannot plunge them for doing artwork. One can try tilt the spinning bit down onto your piece but trying to get the router positioned exactly is very awkward, especially as trim routers don’t give you much room to hold them. They should give us the use of being able to plunge to “draw” with varying depth. Yes you can do it with a larger router but they get heavy and are cumbersome to use where you need accuracy to follow your designs lines.
Thanks for posting this. I had recently bought a Ryobi cordless router and tried using it. I'm usually good with all power tools, but this didn't go well. Maybe I'll reconsider giving it away and practice some more. I'd like to use it to add a bullnose edge to 1x4's to make new window sills for my whole house. Pre-made ones are really expensive.
I agree with lots of your points but I actually got a second Bosch 1617 because I had been building a fleet of jigs for one I had mounted in my router table. I got tired of wasting time putting it in and out of the table mount. So, I leave one mounted in the table almost permanently and the other is a portable one fits all of my custom jigs. Also, if either one broke down, I could limp by with one and not be completely without a router. For a few situations it was actually handy to have both portable with different jig setups on them. The Bosch is not that big or heavy so for me, two identical routers is a better option for where I was at.
I have a Makita palm router, and made a small table-top router table for it (got the idea from Colin Kenecht) that makes it even more versatile. The only other drawback I can think of is that in addition to only accepting 1/4" bits, some palm routers, like the Makita, have a narrower throat making some bits (like nearly every single chamfer bit) too large to pass through.
I think it depends on what you do. I use both everyday. But yes, I use a palm router whenever possible. I primarily use the 1/2 inch when I need to plunge, when when taking heavy cuts against the grain while using a compression bit, or when I need a bit that is so long they can't safely make them in 1/4. 1/2 routers are more stable and less likely to jump around on you. I often cut very, very large joints and massive profiles in beams, corbels, brackets, and rafter tails etc. Many times in Sapele, which is rather hard. I use templates and a compression pattern bit to transfer my pattern onto both sides after cutting it close with a bandsaw, then remove the material in the middle until it's flush with the router's cuts on either side. Works great so long as you transfer your marks around the piece accurately.
Yer killin' me here! I see this morning that the full sized Bosch 1617EVSPK is on sale for $179, just a hair more expensive than the palm-size Bosch router. I was about to pull the trigger on it but now I'm wondering if I really need a full-size at all 😞
Another con to palm routers is they can't be mounted underneath a router table. When I started there was no such thing as a palm router. I probably could have used it then. I'm no professional, but easier to use tools is what I would want to buy. GREAT VIDEO!
I love routers and have a large one from years ago. I don’t use it that often because I’d rather have the table but couldn’t afford one. The palm router is so perfect for me, as a woman with smaller hands, and appreciate the how to, but I couldn’t understand some of the language, so I got lost in the directions. Should I look for the “ Routers for Dummies” book?
I wish I had seen this video about 8 years ago when I was ignorant and bought a full size one, not knowing there were smaller versions. I recently bought a palm router and it gets used a lot for all kinds of things. Ah, well, we live and learn.
Thanks for the video. Question: I would think, for the 'casual' user, even more basic/ simple, is just using a multi-purpose rotary tool (Dremel), with router bits. Besides the availability of 1/8" router cutting, bits, there are a # of 'guide' type attachments you can use to turn it into a plunge router, or table router, or even using the simpler "multi-purpose cutting guide," which some people use with router bits. I wish there had a least been a mention of this? Any advice (because I have a Dremel, & I bought carving bits that included some routing bits I COULD, but have not yet used). I always appreciate hearing the wisdom of experts. Blessings everyone. Peace. Love wins.
While I agree, a comment I'd make is that if you dive in at the deep end you will quickly learn to swim! My first router was a very large and powerful 1/2" model which I used to do laminate worktops, and this was a very steep learning curve. Having got used to that, when I finally brought a palm router I found it was a doddle to use and control. Although they are a bit expensive, I think it's also well worth investing in a plunge base for the palm router, as this keeps your fingers well clear, giving you the best of both worlds.
Definitely my experience as well. Bought a half inch router kit and barely used it. Then I bought a small super cheap battery router from Lidl and I cannot say enough about the convenience
Thanks for the great tips, wish if you had it a year back. I got a full size router as a gift a year ago and have been afraid to use it eversince. It is too intimidating and dont want to loose any fingers
I know Ryobi gets a lot of crap but I have one of their battery powered trim routers and I use it on almost every project. I have a router table and full size routers for the heavy lifting but they tend to acquire a lot more dust than my trim router.
I don't know, I probably use my larger 1900watt half inch collet, plunge router more than anything else I have. I use them for kitchen worktops,mason mitres,sink cutouts etc. I have two of these, one in a router table.Also I have an 800w quarter inch collet machine. I don't own a little trim router or a big 2200w machine, I bought what I needed,so should you !
This video came a bit late. I bought a full sized router thinking it would be more versatile. But the huge size also makes it more intimidating for a beginner like me.
