You're Cleaning The Wrong Way 

For those asking about the cleaning cradle… benchrite.com/pma-tool-double-rifle-cleaning-cradle/

It took me 3 times of clicking on this video to finish watching it. As the son of a Vietnam sniper, but I myself not being in the military but a non-competitive long range shooter, me and my dad had different approaches to a lot of things concerning rifle accuracy...and barrel cleaning was the biggest difference. All of his guns shot like lasers and he RARELY cleaned them. I myself could not stand anything dirty so clean my guns were and clean they stay to this day. After my father passed away, I put his guns away forever and am now of the opinion that the right way to do anything is what a person accepts that works for them 😊

Erik Cortina is the best. Ive learned so much from this guy and he doesnt even have a clue who i am or how much he has helped me out.

"Data is never bad, it's how they interpret the data" That's a nugget of wisdom that goes far beyond competitive shooting.

This sounds like an interrogation from an F class shooter to a PRS shooter haha. Eric is providing valid questions. He wants to better another shooter. Thanks for the good info!

I suppose; the good ole saying, The more you clean, the more dirt you see, never fails. This conversation was a pleasure to watch. Thank you!

You run a race to win , bd Erik does everything possible to put that win in his favor . Thanks Erik !

I shot NBRSA groups for 24 years, never cleaned at home, always clean with less 20 shots (every other targets) rarely used any copper solvent, always use a bronze brush (10 passes) six patches total then lubed the bolt, looking to replace the match barrel at 2000 to 3000 shots. No carbon ring ever 😊

"I can keep it consistently clean, I can't keep is consistently dirty" This makes so much sense.

Absolutely correct. “I can keep it consistently clean, I can’t keep it consistently dirty”

Erik always makes a lot of sense , he is at the top of the game so he must be doing something or everything correct , thanks for an awesome video Guys .

I’ve been shooting & cleaning over 6 decades but I’ve only been in this precision rifle game a couple of years, one of the first questions to answer is how & when to clean precision rifles. I did a TON of research trying to weed out the truth from statements like “more barrels are damaged while cleaning” & “it has to be seasoned to shoot well” & “break-in your barrel for accuracy and easy cleaning”. It eventually came down to two major trains of thought: the high precision bench rest group clean after every use while the PRS shooters mostly clean when accuracy declines. I’ve always been a “clean after every use shooter” so that’s how I clean my precision rifle as well. Here’s my biggest takeaway! After all these years I bought a borescope and as soon as I ran it down a barrel I realized my barrels were not nearly as clean as I thought they were. My six decades of cleaning technique went out the window when I could actually see what was effective and what were not. I quickly developed a non-abrasive high polish technique with the fewest actual cleaning strokes. It’s just amazing what products are actually effective and which products are just snake oil. What can I say, you just don’t know what you just don’t know..

Love how practical Erik can make complex questions

Something to be said for discipline & consistency working together to bring results and Eric knows it

He’s set in his ways no talking him out of anything

I only started this video thinking wonder what this guy knows about barrel cleaning. Holy Gomer Pyle! You interviewed my absolute favorite shooter regardless of the shooting discipline ERIK CORTINA!! Bravo sir, bravo!

I think there is a lot we can learn from the BR and F Class guys. Nobody has ever said this rifle to too consistent, anything that can give a measurable advantage is just that. Watch and enjoy both your guys channels thanks for sharing.

Listening to guys like him is awesome. His understanding of the process, and ability and willingness to share the knowledge is priceless.

The point you are making Eric is that way for all machinery, not just guns. We should never ever wait for a machine to tell us something is wrong. Especially something that we already know is imminent like changing oil. Murphy tells us that problems will occur at the worst times. And they always seem to. Very good video!

Very Interesting! I have always cleaned my firearms every single time at the end of that shooting session; right or not, my habit. I use multiple solvents for seeing what colors or deposits appear on the patch. In the past when I was licensed to manufacture and sell commercial ammunitions, had a customer that complained of inaccuracy of the identical loading he had used for the past years. I asked him if he cleaned his 7mm Rem Mag barrel ,and he replied; "Of course, with Carb Cleaner". I informed him of copper fouling, proved by running a wipe through his barrel with Sweets 7.62-39 solvent. After I completed cleaning his barrel, his accuracy was back to single shot ability for hunting purposes. I really enjoy informative videos as these and heed the splendid advise for my always needed improvement. Thanks again for this one.

Erik has a lot of knowledge and he seems like a cool dude. Been following him on RU-vid and now his own website and the stuff you learn is priceless plus it’s entertaining. Great video Joel!

Erik Cortina is a very logical thinker.

I hear this so much with many PRS guys, not cleaning their barrels for hundreds of rounds. I've never believed that and Erik makes all the good points.

The true test is to shoot F-Class with your PRS rifle. Reality hurts some egos when the results come up. They are very different disciplines, but the core idea is the same - hitting a target. PRS gets away with having oversized targets. Your goal needs to be to hit the very centre of the target every time. If you do that, you cannot lose. F-Class will show you whether your system is capable of hitting the middle every time, doesn't matter what that system is. I shoot target rifle (open sights, prone, with a sling), F-class and PRS (in Australia) and I love all three for different reasons. I initially started F-class to verify the accuracy of my target rifle system and enjoyed it because it was different. Not more or less accurate, just different. It certainly showed me the accuracy potential of my target rifle. I shoot my PRS rifle on F-class targets (when I can, F-class doesn't like brakes) to verify that system's capabilities. It means that I can trust each system to be accurate enough that I can place shots where I want them and not just spray and pray. The sad thing is, shooters are like fishermen, they tell tall tales of the one that got away and exaggerate the size of their groups (except smaller, rather than larger). F-class is the acid test. That X-ring is the size that it is and if you can't hit it, you won't win. Simple. Try it with your PRS rig. A high end PRS rig will be able to compete in F-class (you'll need to remove your brake if you run one) and you will quickly work out how well that system is shooting. You can then accurately determine whether your rifle is happier running clean or dirty and what that limit is or if some other factor needs to be attended to. There is so much myth and misconception in the shooting sports and it is great to see guys like Erik Cortina trying to cut through the BS. I will say that I don't agree 100% with everything EC says or does, but there are many ways to skin a cat. The results on paper are what matters. I learned early on in life that you need to test it for yourself. If you have enough passion, interest, intellect and spare money, you can very quickly determine what works and what doesn't (for you). But so much 'knowledge' is crap that came from some BS tale that isn't based on honesty. Honesty is the result on the target. If in doubt, shoot a group. Then shoot it again. Then repeat that. Go again and again. If you can shoot an actual 1/4 MOA group, all the time, then your gear is solid and your system works. Now try for 1/8MOA. That'll truly mess with your mind and you'll end up a Benchrest shooter. Then you will see what accuracy properly looks like and you'll know what it takes to create a properly accurate system and maintain it. BTW, a group is not 3 shots. It is at least 5 and in my chosen disciplines, it's 10 shots. Early test with 2 or 3 shots, but verify with 5 and if you are game, 10 shots. Get yourself a mentor. Someone who seems to always shoot better than you. Ask them questions and listen to the answers. If the answers bother you, test them. If they work (they normally do), say thanks and use what you learned. If they don't work, ask why they didn't work. Your understanding and implementation are not always going to meet the same standards. Apologies for the long post, but I see the work being put in and the questions asked and I see missed opportunities for an 'ah-ha' learning moment. I do what I can to help people get to their level of comfortable. Not every body has the same goals, but I have taken ordinary shooters and put them behind my gear and guided them to shooting their best ever scores. Great work guys and EC, thanks for your efforts to educate the shooting community.

I believe that every intention done on your off range/comp day shows on target on your shoot day. Consistancy is a verb, lol, The only way to be consistent is by intentionally being consistent. Thank you to you champions for taking the time sharing all your trials with all of us. Its all about the freedom seeds and the nut behind the bolt!! Lol 🍻😷👍

I'm not a competition shooter, but I am tired of arguements with poeple about cleaning barrels. I clean. All of my thoughts of cleaning were just solidified by this video. Thank you for your time guys.

This was a GREAT discussion. LISTEN to it. You will 'hear' where YOU like to sit. How accurate do you want to be? How many variables do you want removed or at least minimized? Thank you both! Precision Rifle Network and Erik...btw...I'm loving the EC Tuner Break!

Fact is do what you want and what works for you. Erik knows his way works for him and he is at the top of the shooting world

I don't do precision shooting as such, but since I bought my first rifle in 1960 I have always cleaned my firearms after every use. Just do. I kind of get what you are saying though. I once bought a hunting rifle that didn't shoot that well. The barrel looked OK, clean and bright, and the crown looked OK, but over time at every cleaning the groups got smaller until eventually it shot pretty well. Obviously there was built up crud in there which successive cleanings removed. At that stage I re-crowned it "just because", and knocked a half minute off the groups at which stage it was about 1Moa, much better than the 4 when I bought it, and OK for a hunting rifle.

Thanks for your honesty Erik , I am a hillbilly and stubborn but my ears ain't broke yet Lol . I'm a big fan and learned so much from Erik . Thanks for all you do for all who watch . I don't shoot competition but if I did it would be much easier to get started with what matters .Thanks Erik and GODBLESS Everyone 😁

I love how some people answer a question with a question. It makes them seem really smart lol

I grew up in my dads gun shop. A bolt action hunting gun is cleaned after every hunting trip, regardless of if you even fired. And after every time using it for target. practice. The reason to disassemble clean and reoil after hunting even if not fired is because of dust, moisture, and skin oil getting on and in the gun.

spoken with confidence and certainty. So many men now days afraid to say anything definitive or absolute, because the PC culture. Appreciate Erik Cortina's direct manner.

that is why I follow Erik on you tube and am on his pateron, I learn from him ALOT when it comes to reloading and cleaning my barrel .

It’s kind of a fine line. A lot of “regular” people over clean. They get a rod and shove it through until the patches are “clean”. They don’t have a borescope, they use poor fitting rods, patches or brushes and end up causing more damage than properly cleaning. The other end of the spectrum is the guy that thinks a boresnake is “good enough”. As a career competition shooter I accept that a barrel is a consumable, if it’s a match gun and you actually shoot it often, your gonna need a tube at some point, but the genre of shooting and caliber determines the cleaning regimen. I don’t clean my PRS, F-Class, hunting or XTC service/match rifles the same. Each has its own demands for acceptable accuracy. I clean very similar to Erik for F but not for service rifle. As a gunsmith I’ve seen people destroy a barrel by over and under cleaning. It’s certainly a “You don’t know until you know.” Situation. The way I read it, Erik speaks as though his methodology is gospel. In his chosen discipline He has the luxury of sighters, sometimes unlimited sighters. But 400rnds between cleaning is… a lot unless it’s a combat weapon. Personally, 264 rnds MAX for a 3 day, 88 shot across the course match is my limit. I can still clean the 600y line by then. Invest in some form of barrel inspection scope and find what works for you based on your needs. For example, a big game hunter I’d recommend he take a slightly dirty bore into the field 5-10 rounds to foul in the barrel. Unless your bench rest and clean every couple rounds. You’ll shoot more fouled bores than shiny clean. As a fouling shot may mean the difference if you don’t have the time or experience to document cold clean bore vs cold dirty bore data. Data books are key! Like everything in life, in moderation. My $.02.

That point about scoping late into a barrel's life is so true. I scoped one rifle and figured that it was toast because I didn't really understand what I was seeing. It was only a serious carbon build up not a burned out barrel. Once I cleaned it, (using CLR), I could see it had some heat cracking bit was far from burnt out.

Funny , people always say that prs doesn’t need the same level of accuracy. Say an average of a 1.5 moa target. So your rifle is a .5 moa gun. But you add uncomfortable/ unstable position which adds wobble. So now a .5 moa gun plus a .2 mil wobble. Why wouldn’t you want to eliminate the rifle as the variable. My routine is clean before and after each match. Because I know what the rifle will do to 150 rounds or so consistently. This winter I bought a bore scope and realized how dirty my “ clean” barrels were. My hope is to not go crazy. But to get truly clean and try to maintain a “cleaner” level of normal

I would put some lens covers on that Kahles riflescope while cleaning.

Good coaches know how to ask probing questions to get you to realize and admit the mistakes you're making. I really like this guy, very smart.

I love how Erik tells it like it is. If you want to argue you have a place of reference. 😉 Great exchange, guys. 👍

All I do is hunt with my rifles and don't get to go very often due to my disability. I clean the rifle after the season or if it gets wet from rain or condensation but I do wipe it down every time after a hunt. I also use Hoppes #9 and let it soak overnight if possible to give the solvent time to work. I think every discipline in rifle shooting has its own requirements.

I used to neck size only, bump shoulder back when I had to. I watch Eric's video on the subject and I hated that fuck. Pissed me off. But I kept watching his videos and I have learned so much Info from him. I have completely changed the way I do load development for PRS and the way I care for my rifle

Thanks for the video. Always like listening to Erik on things like this.

It's tolerance stacking. If the barrel is 1% out of spec from carbon, and the projectile is 1% out of round, and the powder is 1% low in weight, and the action is 1% out of square, and the bolt is 1% off you are now 5% off of dead center if the shooter does everything else perfectly

Why does this man clean so much? There's a lot of wisdom here. Leave some comments for Erik below. (preempting some comments here...it is my communication style to "play dumb" sometimes so as to draw people out better - ie: ask a lot of questions to get more depth to answers.)

A man with OCD trying to convince someone without OCD to have OCD...

These are good videos. Discussing different ways to do things is great

What Erik said hits the nail on the head, "I can keep it consistently clean, I can't keep it consistently dirty". When the other guy says he re-zero's every time before he shoots, to compensate for barrel fouling, is not only ridiculous but also impractical. That's as logical as re-adjusting your sprinkler heads every week because you're too lazy to just mow the lawn!

When I look at videos of folks looking in their barrel with a bore scope, I usually see a very rough finish. It seems that polishing the rifling with abrasives would be a good thing to do.

great video-- I picked up a lot. Although it seems like the same conversations were had in similar words 3-4 times

"You can keep it consistently clean, you can't keep it consistently dirty" - i like that

"Consistently clean" is probably better than "unknowns". Build up inside the bore, it (potentially) happens with each shot. Did it affect the last shot and not the next? Who knows, if it's not clean. Good argument.

Thanks Erik

We are shooting a state F class championship this weekend starting tomorrow. I will be cleaning rifle in hotel tomorrow night before next day.

Managing variables

I'm just a casual hunter, always clean any firearm even if i only fire it once.when I get home every day... is that hurting it? Never thought it would..

I love seeing people engrained in their position trying to justify them. Erik was asking him all the right questions to guide him to the realization. Normalcy bias is strong and people need to learn to question their positions more.

CLR great for stainless. BUT not good on coated or blued barrels. But I use it on my black barrels n oil the end. Works great so far .

I can see where Eric is coming from on the cleaning. I am not a professional shooter. I clean my guns every time I shoot even if it’s 20 rounds or 100 or more. I am just a plinker and have always wondered if I cleaned too much. Thanks for the video and information

Erik has more than 1 digital caliper so he can leave attachments like bullet comparators or headspace gauges on the calipers. It looks like he has several cleaning rods so he doesn't have to switch jags and brushes

.......TOTALLY AGREE on the barrel cleaning,....finished shooting for the day or weekend match - CLEANED.

3 things that I picked up here. 1. Use LCR to remove carbon. Been there done that on stainless revolvers to remove carbon stains on cylinders. I just make sure that I used a Base solvent to remove the high acid content of LCR after using it. 2. Dirty barrels cause flyers. 3 Get a bore scope. Curious which Bore Scope he was using. This would be a good video on which bore scopes are best.

It is a rare privilege to listen to wisdom.

It would have been nice to see those two patches AFTER the CLR patch...if in fact that was truly CLR in that bottle

Welp,,, I got my borescope. It is hard to believe, after what I thought was a really good cleaning---- looked like I've never ever cleaned the guns. Guns !!!! Plural. After checking the gun I felt I went overboard on cleaning looked terrible, I figured my 204 would be bad just being its a 4100fps gun. I always clean it extra. Well it looked like I've never had a rod through it. Totally nuts 😳 Thanks for drilling it In to get a borescope.

Excellent vid, as always with Eric. Maybe you can officially define "flyer" .. that word really means different things to different people :)

I've been telling people these principles for many years. The subject causes a big stir with shooters. Even more so with modern shooters , which is funny. All of this technology and maintenance causing a great debate. Great explanation of these principles.

Erik is not wrong per say, he's just approaching the matter from a purely scientific view. I think its fair to say most shooters do not "care" about the minute details to same level he does. Now with that said he explains why those matter to him and he's right, they do...to him for his application. Keep in mind in any of the disciplines of shooting there is a learning curve, an equipment curve and a mental curve. No two shooters will have the same goals and ability to reach those goals. Watch videos like this and learn what you can from it, apply what is reasonable to you and don't stress about the rest.

I'm definitely in the camp of waiting until my groups start opening up but I'm not a competitive shooter of any kind... I do a lot of plinking and even more hunting so I'm not fighting for the smallest most consistent groups I'm just looking to ring steel out to a grand and put an ethical shot on a game animal inside 200 yards... It's extremely interesting to see how you guys think that compete at the levels yall are at. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!

I think it all boils down to this: We are striving to make our rifles and loads as accurate as humanly possible. This leaves any misses or low scores. in a match strictly the shooter’s responsibility.

Accurate shooting is all about maintaining consistency. How do you do that without establishing a level of consistency inside your barrel? My barrel manufacturer recommends a quick cleaning after every range trip and a thorough cleaning every hundred rounds. What's the difference between the two types of cleaning? JB and short stroking the throat to remove the carbon ring.

Such a great conversation. PRS and F-Class are so different, yet some part of our humanity tries to make them the same. Eric makes fantastic points, but so much of the conversation is not really applicable because the time required isn't worth the return in PRS. The debate here is fun for me. Loved this from both of you, well done guys. I start to wonder what the top 10% of PRS leader board shooters are stripping their barrel back to absolute zero on Saturday night?

Erik Cortina...I tried using the bore paste on a patch with a bit of clr on there too. It works very well,don't know if it's something you've tried.

My .17HMR used to knock the primers out of .45acp shells at 80 yards, all day long. Until I cleaned the bore. I'll never clean it again.

He sure convinced me that I need to clean my "dmr" right now.

Am I doing it “wrong”?... I keep a bore snake (caliber appropriate) in my range/rifle bag and run it down the bore 2-3 times after each range session and wipe down and lube the bolt, etc. regularly. I don’t clean with a brush and solvent unless I know I’ve neglected or abused the rifle at some point.

Bi-metallic jackets don't leave much in the way of deposits on chrome lined barrels. 3moa works for me!

Great video mate Erik always makes a lot of sense love his videos to,,,,,,from Australia 🇦🇺

Bottom line regardless of what you are shooting, eliminating variables is what everyone should be working to do. Improving the shooting system, which includes the shooter, to be the most consistant as possible is the best you can do. The wind is the great equalizer.

This weeked at a course my buddy could not get hits beyond 400. He cleans the rifle annually and between range visits he always oils the barrel.. Too many people are stuck at oiling instead of really even actually recording when accuracy drops off. But I aim to keep my bore cleaning regime under 30 minutes, with 2/3 time it has Eliminator in it and the rest I clean every drop away.

Erik has no doubt the correct procedure as for the PRO F CLASS. Why not shoot knowing you have the most consistency everytime. Its impossible to know how much fowling will work and how long it will last before you have to bring it back to beginning. But with that said. And this is just for ham and eggers, Hunting or combat, VS high level Competitors. Some barrels won't shoot without some fowling. Just like a cold boar shot can be different. Personally at least my barrels on my rifles used as work rifles, I don't clean and they stay consistent. Normal Carbon fowling VS copper fowling that carries another story. Using the idea of a muzzle loader you can't beat shooting it clean because after the 3 rounds if that, your lucky if you can even reload it without a full cleaning. Of course a muzzle loader is extremely a dirty shooter.

Cortina! Great vid. Clicked on it just because I thought I recognized him

Let’s just say, you both agree to disagree, and leave it at that… no need to drag it out and make it boring! Yes, pun was intended. Peace and love and may you all. Have a great day!❤

Finally something Eric cortina and I agree on. If I shoot that rifle I clean it too.. I've seen barrels that could not go past 8 shots without needing cleaned but there is absolutely no way I would put 400 down without cleaning. No way I would let it go 100rounds. I shoot a 1000yd benchrifle match and shoot 15 shots total with sighters that night it gets clean.

I was shooting new Teka t3 6.5.Was developing load,found two,one for 120 barnes and one for 143 eldx.shot great.Loaded some of both.Folowing week groups opened up,very frustrateing.started messing with loads.just wasted loads.i thought it was dirty and cleaned it,what I thought clean.bought bore scope and could see carbon ring and residual carbon and copper.Cleaned with Kroll oil,jb bore paste,a bit of clr.... Bullet holes touching.

I'd like to have a package of Erik's used patches. 🤪

Wow, I have learned so much from Eric just by listening to this, thank you for sharing! Next, getting a ‚bore scope‘ not assuming, but knowing! Not just clean, but clean clean: no more flyers 🤜🏻🤛🏻

It’s about expectations. What the dude describes as far as waiting for his group to open up, was 1” groups. If that’s true, he still has a viable sniper rifle out to 1000m. 1” groups @ 100m = 10” @ 1000m. That’s hitting a face @ 1000m assuming you can conquer the wind. What Erik is doing, is ignoring what’s called copper equilibrium. It’s a way, just not a way that’s acceptable for combat and other applications.

Precision shooting is a mental game. How your interviewer can shoot without the knowledge that he can rely on Every shot, shows the difference between "averages" and "Precision". Personally I can't compete that way. half fast

Excellent video…

I last cleaned mine new from the box, one patch with hopes #9... NO CLEANING SINCE 1994, STILL HALF INCH AT 50 YARDS

Great conversation and explanations. Thanks a lot for doing this and sharing it to us out here :)

What’s your thought on brass versus nylon jags,boar snakeskins.A friend of mine says don’t use boar snakes or brass. Have a great day and thank you.

Mark Pharr builds accurate Guns as well, he’s built 3 for me off Rem700 actions … all shoot under .5 (hunting rifles)

This is the difference between champions and "also-competed". If you are willing to leave something to chance, you chance leaving something to the willing.

Get a rifle with a cold hammer forged barrel they are so smooth because the barrel is hammered around the rifling rather than cut in my opinion they don’t need cleaning at all I have a 7mm rem mag with over 700 rounds through it that still shoots half inch I used to be pedantic in rifle cleaning until I realised I was wasting my time the

"Keeping it consistently clean is doable, keeping it consistently dirty is not" is the perfect summary. My question though, is just how clean do you have to get it? I can clean for a day and still see black streaks in the bore.

"I can keep a rifle consistently clean, I can't keep it consistently dirty." I never looked at it that way. I now clean after every shooting session.

Maybe you should of said to Eric that you build up copper equilibrium? Lol

For all the guys making the 'oil change' analogy- yeah, you don't wait until you get a rod knock to change your oil... But you also don't change your oil every day when you get home from work. His 'every 400 rounds' is the equivalent of an OCI- an oil change interval. It's all about determining a schedule that keeps your equipment in operating order, without wasting your time overdoing it without any tangible benefit.