Under NEM2.0 if you do have a battery+Solar, is it better to run the battery as a backup only mode, rather than charging and discharging it everyday? Meaning is it more economical to not use the battery at all (unless there is a power outage) and use the solar credits from the grid instead
We need a 4.0 ohm's law 101 you could only pit back and use about 10% of the output the power companies are losing a lot of money besides with the embodied energy disqualified as green
There needs to be balance to the grid and we’ve add a ton of solar energy but no storage thus the need for the drastic shift to NEM 3. In about 3-4 years we’ll see NEM 4 and it be more balanced because the infrastructure will be better managed with more storage deployed.
Is a battery at $15k really gonna give u cost savings when that will raise the total price of your solar system which means your payment for financing would be almost the cost of your SDGE bill
It's even worse, and not just for solar. The utilities are proposing a flat service fee every month based on income. So even if you don't use a single watt of electricity, you could still see a big fee.
Looks like we sent a preliminary proposal to you about 12-days ago and a follow up email a few days ago. It’s possible the quote is in your spam/junk mail?
if the lifespan of the battery is 10-15 years, it seems like over the 25 year span of the panel you will have to replace the battery at least once. So potentially another 15K expense right in the middle. I unfortunately missed NEM 2.0 and this has been the sticking point for me. It seems worth it until you have to replace the battery, then that ROI goes down significantly especially if you have to finance.
That’s why people need to pay attention to the battery warranty they’re buying. The cheapest battery is going to have the shortest life. Currently we’ve found that the Canadian Solar EP Cube offers one of the best warranties at a relatively low price compared to other premium battery systems like Sonnen. The EP Cube could easily last 25 years before needing to be replaced while sonnen is 40 years
tesla screwed me signed the paperwork for interconnection agreement and they never sent the paperwork in time. Going to cancel my solar install. Rising rates is a gimmick they just said they are going to go to fixed rates depending on income.
Good explanation of how this change works between MEM 2.0 & "Net Billing". Utility rates have never gone down. Getting the system installed will help nearly everyone. Batteries are what is necessary to offset the peak rates. When we installed our system 21 years ago the peak hours were during the afternoon, now they are in the evening. Who know what it will be in the future. It will definitely be changed to meet the peak usage. IF enough electric vehicles are added the peak may go to midnight to 6:00 AM. Who Knows?
Im an electrical contractor who installs solar. I see this as crushing my solar install side of the business. Lets be realistic.. who wants to fork our tens of thousands of dollars and still have an electric bill at the end of the month. Im hearing that the way to bring the cost down is just to use the battery as an export device only not as a back up function.
is it just me but $23,892 for a 12kwh system (before tax credit) seems too good to be true? That comes out only about $1.98 per watt !! Perhaps it does not include installation and other fees ???
that is the big problem with solar companies is the purposely don't tell you the real number. not everyone can utilize the 30 percent federal tax credit. Just be honest and give the real figures. the homeowner deserves it, not games
@@dalerolph You said the Net System Cost was $16,725.07. I am getting my solar panels installed on Monday and my Net System Cost is $17,223 for a 5.18KW system.
@@dalerolph ? cricket... i agree @brandonle6008 that price seems way too low for CA unless they are using super cheap panel but still...seems like false advertising
If you've been thinking about adding more panels you should do it while you have time. If you add more than 1KW you lose your status so you need to get your agreement re-done before April 15th. Adding a battery after April 15th does NOT effect you.
One of the augments the power companies used was 2.0 was not fair to poor people who could not afford solar. 3.0 is not fair to people who can not afford batteries which will include a lot more of the population. My hope is battery technology progresses a lot faster and becomes a more practical solution
Appreciate your videos to help others. Thank you. I have a question you might be able to answer regarding the upcoming April 14th, due date for NEM 2.0 solar IR submissions. My power provider is SCE. Is the 20 year NEM 2.0 grandfathering status based upon the year in which NEM 2.0 billing became enacted (2017) or when a customers Residential plant was granted permission to operate? That is a big difference for customers who were/are earlier adopters. For example: Year permission to operate granted: 2005 Year NEM 2.0 Billing Enacted: 2017 When will NEM 2.0 grandfathering no longer be honored after April 14th 2023? A. 2005 + 20 years = 2025 B. 2017 + 20 years = 2037 C. Other SCE does not publish any guidance regarding the grandfathering "Start" date. Gratefully
@@ridemfast7625 I called our power provider directly (hold times > 45min) and discovered that the inception date is when the equipment was granted permission to operate. Has nothing to do with any de jour form of billing. In the example, it would be the year 2005 and 20 years thereafter.
@@winddealer1 Good to know. Per PGE: "If the renewable generator is modified or repaired during the "grandfathering" period, the customer will remain eligible only if the NEM1 system does not increase in size more than 10 percent of the generating capacity in the original PTO letter, or 1 kW, whichever is greater. However, if the capacity increase is greater than 1 kW or 10% of the original approved generator capacity, whichever is larger, the customer cannot utilize the NEM1 program for the entire system. The customer would have the following two options: Separately meter* the added capacity with NEMMT to take service under the NEM2 program, or Elect for the entire system to take service under the NEM2 program. The separately metered system is eligible to be grandfathered under the NEM2 program for the full 20 years. However, if the entire system takes service under the NEM2 program, it will be grandfathered under the NEM2 program beginning from the date of the issuance of the NEM1 PTO.
The video is really cool, but you should make another video with PPA or solar loan because in reality, there is so many people that can afford a 20k battery set plus a 25k solar system, some batteries are even expensier than the actual solar system
We have 40 solar panels and no batteries. Our system is over 10 years old with 36 panels and a wall mounted inverter. In 2017 we added 4 more panels with micro-inverters when we replaced our roof. We had to have the panels removed and replaced then. We have 1 EV currently and am getting a second one when our Cybertruck is ready. We are currently under Net metering 2.0. We are considering adding another few panels and batteries. If we wait until after April to add the new panels and batteries, will that force us into Net metering 3.0?
The bad news, the electric companies finally got what they wanted. The good news, hopefully this will really drive the R & D into home battery technology.
When panels get more efficient and battery storage becomes cheap. With heat pumps working so well in California, I'm hoping I see the day where I can unplug my home from the grid and just buy a cheap generator to charge batteries if needed
Yes, and that can alter the equation significantly, since your car battery is 4X (Leaf) to 10x (Ford F150 lightning) larger than the 10kwh battery in this scenario and you've already paid for it. For Leaf owners, check out the dcbel r16 inverter, with dual charging, and designed for V2G integration.
I know this is about bean counting and money and all those kinds of things but you’re not telling your audience the benefits of a battery back up the grid goes down you lose your solar with a battery back up in place you keep your solar that’s my two. Cents.
Thank you! Question; I have a 4.2 kW solar system now under NEM 1.0 with SCE. I am set up to install a 6 kW system soon. I understand I am able to either move my old system to NEM 2.0 along with my new system or I can apply for a multi-tarrif agreement and keep my old system on NEM 1.0 and the new one on 2.0. The downside is that my old system is 6 years old so I would only have another 14 years on 1.0 and then I assume it would go to 3.0 or worse. Would it be better to switch the old system to 2.0 for 20 years or keep it on 1.0 for 14 years? I probably won't use all my solar energy after I get the new system unless I get a EV someday.
@@dalerolph Thank you but I'm not removing the old system, just adding a second system. SCE gives me the option of keeping the old system on NEM 1 for another 14 years or moving it to NEM 2 for 20 years. I'm not sure which is smarter.
We applied at the deadline on April 13th so are we subjected to NEM 3.0? We are still waiting for the site survey...(8.0KW paying cash) all that said we're thinking about adding a whole house and attic fans to help reduce AC KWH usage ( right at 12k annual usage including our pool and Modern system).
You said 25% rate of return, that looks like 5 years returns? I’m a solar owner, a big fan, but cash on cash returns for my system was 8-10% annually from what I remember but that’s excellent for an investment that can’t lose money (in theory anyway), lol. Someone will correct me and say “when the squirrels chewed up your wires and two panels were out……., etc. With an 8.4 kw system, 2022 I finished the year, all electric use covered with 103 kw to spare, can’t get any closer than that. I hope they leave us alone in VA,
Is your modeling there taking into account time of use rates? I dont see how its almost the same with battery vs without battery under nem 3.0 given that with a battery you would be able to avoid peak rates from 4 to midnight. Does your model completely discharge the battery to the grid during the most profitable time of the day each evening? Either way, surprising result!
I had done a bunch of battery discharge scenarios before settling on what was presented. I found that just using the battery for self consumption meaning the battery automatically starts to discharge as solar production decreases until the battery reaches its minimum SOC gave the best savings. The NEM3 structure we’re using is based on time of use rate plans provided by SCE, it’s a much more complicated system the Net Metering.
You need to consider the degradation of the battery over time. It's my understanding that the lifespan for the most part is 10 years. Even if the battery is still functional, at 10 years, you are not able to store what nearly enough to make it worth the purchase. Let's be honest, solar industry just got crushed.
Depends on the battery chemistry, some LFP batteries have life expectancies of 25+ years with 70% original capacity retention. NMC batteries tend to have a lower life expectancy of 15-years at 70%. But it’s all about quality and chemistry.
@@dalerolph To me the murkier part of this is prob in 5 or 10 years they'll have better and more affordable batteries that become the standard and people aren't sweating this as much. Is there a cheaper battery currently we should only shoot for owning for like 10 years and then replace them with this hypothetical better battery? Or do you think that's just not likely?
It’s not going to be doomed. CA Law requires new homes and each condo units to have a minimum solar system. Even a house addition will require a minimum solar system. Demand will still be high.
@@kyleelpel9402 You know how people complain about tech companies like Uber which used their VC money to artificially lower their prices in order to gain market share and get you hooked? And then a few years later the money runs out and you have to pay more and it feels crappy? The electric companies acted like that for the past 20 years WRT solar. The truth is everyone who has solar should have always been paying some sort of flat fee for using the grid. You use the grid when you put energy onto it and you use it when the sun goes down and you start pulling from it. If you drove on a road but didn't need to pay for gas because it was offset by someone you still would have used the road, right? The road breaks down when you drive on it, right? What was truly wrong was not properly educating people who went solar in the past. All they taught them was a perspective to only think of themselves. An easy way to think of this is to ask "what if every californian had NEM 2.0?" If you play through that scenario (PS the energy company does not have practically any batteries themselves,) it should become clear why it was never sustainable in the first place. But there's no need to take my word for it. Just search for "duck curve california" or watch the video titled "California's renewable energy problem" by real engineering. You'll find everyone needs a battery system and they changed the laws to try to force it. Are they completely blameless? Of course not, but all they're doing is trying to right the ship.
+1 I'm getting solar and know nothing about it. I was quoted without a battery and when I asked I was told I don't need it since I'm getting in before April 15th. Not understanding anything they are talking about I asked, "but what if I don't want to deal with the electric company? Shouldn't I charge the battery, never use a single amount from the company (and possibly charge them for excess,) and then discharge it at night?" He was shocked. Too many people got in this game for all the wrong reasons.
@@snuggie12 that getting rid of the electric company ( getting off the grid ) can’t happen unless you in the country . Every home that goes solar will actually have a connection fee . Thank god that didn’t change for cali with NEM 3.0 because in the original proposal they actually wanted to go from a flat rate pf 6-8$ a month to 6-8$ per KW . So for example , a 10 KW system would come with a 80$ MONTHLY connection fee . Also if you mean about not dealing with them based on receiving a bill ? That’s why the energy buy back bro gram right now is so lethal . On the summer , hotter months you’ll actually be over producing to where all those credits 5a you’ll be receiving fro, your provide will actually work like ‘roll over minutes’ . That’s why the battery will be mandatory because Edison or any cali company won’t make sense to sell it back to the grid so you’ll need that battery back up to actually some of it and use it . Hope that made sense boss
