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Wellz is right about Stark being at a disadvantage, but according to their bet it was not specified that it needed to be a fresh 1v1. It was that any other captain had to beat a higher# Espada than Kenpachi 🤷🏿
I never realized how often Patric gets into it with someone else on the couch 😂 He and Rob are always going at it. He and Wellz got into it here. Pat got into with Evan AND Rob during one of their MHA reactions (prolonged back and forth less than actual arguing.) Jerry and Pat didn't argue but they definitely got kind of '🙄' with each other while watching AOT lol
While Wellz got heated by the ending of this debate, its clear that he had a point and chose to stick to it, meanwhile Pat on the other side seems to not speak clearly and just give shitty arrogant remarks, i understand why Wellz get heated. to put it simply Wellz tries to bring up facts about the fight and specifics while Pat just tries to confuse by deflecting questions and bringing up sub-optimal comparisons. I'm glad Wellz sticked to it, he is 100% right in the fact that to see this fight as a clear 1v1 at full strength for both sides is incorrect. these other guys CAPPIN
Well well a is wrong. He is right if he is saying it was unfair for stark to fight multiple people because he was weakened throughout the fight , allowing the last guy to beat him. However, he is wrong by saying that 4 separate one on ones is considered a 4 v 1 unless stark legit got jumped by an enemy out of no where that he didn’t at all see. Btw I haven’t seen bleach.
Wellz is wrong about the 4v1 thing tho. Even if he fought 4 people separately those 4 count as separate fights. But it hardly matters because the point he was trying to make is that he was at a disadvantage because the previous fights that he went through tired him out so he’s correct on that.
I look at it as there were multiple rounds but it was one fight. Just because somebody else tags in that doesn’t mean it’s a different fight for me, it’s still one fight for me if I’m goin hard non stop. If he hadn’t got stabbed in the back that might have changed things but that’s a HUGE game changer
No, they really don't. They count as different INSTANCES of the same overall fight, therefore you can't bullshit and say "Kyoraku won the fight in a 1on1". They would've had to define what they BOTH meant by a "fight" before they made the bet. Because I agree that it was ONE fight, MULTIPLE rounds. You can't back out of a fight, heal up, let your teammates tag in for you, come back and say "This is a different fight" that's bullshit
Wellz right they tripping. If I fight 2 people by myself beat them & I'm tired. Then I fight 1 on 1 right after that doesn't make it a 1 on 1 fight. I just fought 3 vs 1 all in all
@@joshlee7666 anytime you get sneak attacked it's not a fair one on one. It's like me sucker punching someone then claiming I knocked them out in a head up fight
Pat was actually right here but Wellz did make a good point. It was a one on one at the end of the day, but it wasn’t a fair one on one, which is what Wellz was saying. Really it comes down to whether or not it counts that the 1v1 was fair or not, but I don’t think they specified that in the beginning so Pat technically won the bet.
Bro, Brook literally said “That man wasn’t taking me the least bit seriously!” after he saw the fight with Zoro and Ryuma. Just off of that info we can conclude that the previous fight did not affect Ryuma at all. So yes he was not at a disadvantage at all against Zoro😂 Pat was wrong.
No. Pat isn’t wrong. The best was about getting jumped. Starkk Cayote didn’t get jumped, he fought different people separately and ultimately lost to one person. If you watch wrestling, the bell rings to the person who makes the pin. It doesn’t matter who weakened the other wrestler.
What does not taking someone seriously have to do with fatigue? At the end of the day he's a rotting corpse and he definitely expended energy fighting Brook, just because he didn't fight his hardest doesn't mean he didn't get tired.
7:07 There is no was he would've caught him off guard like that if he wasn't fighting the other two Edit : I Also believe that Wellz was 100% Right , not saying that the captain wouldn't have won if it was a full 1v1 Fight , Simplest answer is a 1V1 fight wouldn't get interupted by others , Since the other two jumped in a fought the Espada , Ofc he got Weakned to a degree , Kenpachi is a 1v1 cause it was stated that That espada got healed up , Zoro is a 1v1 cause that Zombie wasn't even trying against Brook and Zombies don't get tired , he was 100% with Brook , and was 100% with zoro when it comes to Life bar
He still didn’t “jumped” by all opponents tho, Wellz is right about him getting weaker throughout all the fights(plural) but he didn’t fight everyone at the same time. So he didn’t get jumped, that’s the bet.
i mean prior to this argument I never once questioned the fight. For me it was always a fair 1 vs 1 win by shunsui. That other stuff hardly mattered and even if they did like 1% damage to start, shinsui was still way stronger than him so yeah pat won the bet
Yeah they don't get tired + Ryuma got zero damage from brook and when zoro fights ryuma brook even says that he wasn't trying at all against him so even if he could did get fatigued. Ryuma still fought zoro in top condition and lost fair. Since he fought brook without breaking a sweat.
Wellz actually a hypocrite because when Pat brought up his Wellz statement about Stark and Lily being 2 v 2 to Shunsui and Jushiro he retracted it because “what does the anime tell us tho…my words don’t matter” Yet when One Piece tells you Gear 2-3 is a “technique” that’s not okay?? Ight smh
I hope instead of being hardheaded and sticking to there opinions when bets are involved instead of cancelling they start just voting, either them on the couch or let the fans vote on a community post so these things get resolved so the arguments got a lil more meaning and significance
I wholeheartedly agree but one side won't like it. So if neither one can concede I feel like the bet should just be null and void and that's of course under the stipulation that they would not agree to a democratic decision.
Man this why a big vocabulary is important. If any of them could set a definition for "jumping" to mean having to take on multiple people on simultaneously, then they wouldnt be havin this argument
Wellz was right on the part about how those other fights affected the main 1v1 with Stark and Shinsui. They were definitely trying to ignore him on that, it was still obviously 1 on 1 at the end but at the same time.....Ok but since when did people have to run gauntlets including the main opponent and others before the “real “1v1 😂. But I’m glad Pat stood his ground because I been noticing Wellz actually been tryna punk him recently. I forgot what it was but he said something Pat said was “Bitch Shit”, he been shading him heavy over one piece stuff, and even in this argument where no one there agreed with him, he was really going at Pat personally and aggressive. I’m glad they got it sorted out though 😂
I don't agree with your first point but I just wanna say, in this debate Wellz was definitely more of the aggressor. And I don't know what he was talking about with punking and him acting like he ain't done shit like that. Smh
When someone says 4 v 1 that means 4 people collectively fought one guy unless specified otherwise. When pat and wellz made the bet, they used the above definition. Wellz tried to change argue the terms of the bet because he knew he lost the bet. The argument wasn’t if the fight between stark and shinsui was fair
Wellz was wrong about the espada va kenpachi fight, off the fact that if number 5 never got pushed to his limits in his other fights he probably could’ve utilized his resurrection later
Yo why is Evan yelling INTO the mic jesus christ my ears bro Also, Stark and Lilinette are TECHNICALLY ONE. The anime literally explains how Stark SPLIT HIS SOUL in 2 because of his loneliness. Wellz won this one in my opinion.
To start a new fight, the last fight needs to be declared finished, either by the looser or the next opponent. If I'm in a fight and I knock someone out and his friends want to fight me, that's called "niggas trying to jump a nigga".
What a silly and pointless debate. Almost all the Espada were jumped at some point by multiple Captains. Thats how powerful each of them were because hardly any of them could be taken out by a single Captain.
Wellz 100% right Jerry needs to keep quite he makes no sense most of the time, Stark got jumped and got sent back to fight a fresh captain (who he was originally fighting )got one up on him because Stark was focused on the two who jumped him... that's a jumped lol the devastating blow happened when Stark was being jumped, that's not a one on one
Ik I'm 4 months behind..however as a bleach veteran and I've red the manga years ago shunsui had that fight in the bag..he was holding back the entire time.. whether it's 4v1 or 1v1.. His shadow attack could have come from any direction..so starrk be saying getting hit from the back wasn't honorable doesn't mean shit..he would still get bodied whether from the front or back...
Seeing this extremely late😂. But yeah Shunsui was a whole b*tch for jumping stark waiting for the vizards to weaken or tire him and catching off guard when the guy kept talking about playing fair but he played dirty in the end
IDK man, but the matter is they ALL ignore the fact that Starrk lost because he lost the will to live and gave up. Starrk could have easily killed Kyoraku, Love and Rose If he wanted to
I don't know shi about Bleach I don't understand nothing didn't watch a minute of a single episode and yet I watched the whole 20min as if I knew the show lmaoo
I agree with Joel the dude was jumped. No fights were started in videos back then befor they were allowed they were the same fight which was stark vs Shunsui,rose and the other dude. Stark was busy with Shunsui til those two hopped in and stark started to get pushed back just then he threw shit back then all of a sudden Shunsui damaged his heavily by stabbing him like wtf was tht.
It wasn't pure 1v1. I'm on Wellz side even tho I don't really like him anymore. Stark was half of his power when he fought Shunsui for the second time. Also he'd get backstabbed. Best example Shunsui was easly forced to use Bankai before Stark even went serious but later on he was dealt by his shikai form. Ofc I know Shunsui explained that his zanpakutou wasn't ready but still even two beaten wizards stated that it was a sneak attack. Community saying Pat was right while he's not in this one. That's fking community betrayal and stupidity.
@@mugiwara696 not really because that's the bet. Pat was arguing that it was a 1v1. Wells was arguing that he got jumped. Based on that pat won the bet. He just mad he lost and doesn't want to pay up
It’s simple if I fought two guys in boxing and the bones in my arm is going to break and I won and I fight another person 1v1 and my arm is broken is that fair？no
I know I’m hella late but it doesn’t really matter if it’s fair or not, a new fight doesn’t mean you’re gonna be %100. Now is it fair no but if I fight one person and we’re done and immediately after someone punches me in the stomach as little time I had to regroup myself that’s still considered a new fight. So fair or not it’s not jumping.
What a debate. I somewhat understand both sides. Saying Zoro jumped Brook’s zombie or that “Luffy” jumped Enel or other villains is almost as wild as saying Goku jumped Frieza when they fought for the first time. When a villain bodies heroes before a main character shows up to defeat them that is slightly different from when a villain has a fight with 1 or more characters before someone comes in for a 1V1 finish. And a team battle/ gang fight is also different. You can agure that even if a powerful has to exert some energy when dealing with people weaker than them. But, the brook fight is somewhat different then the bleach case they are arguing about. I would equate Brook’s fight to Vegeta vs Finial form frieza on Namek. Imagine Brook as Vegeta , Ryuma as Frieza, and Zoro as Goku. Vegeta did all he could to fight Frieza. He believed he had a chance but, got destroyed. Other characters where witnesses to this. They could tell that Frieza wasn’t really trying or exhausted at all. By the time Frieza is done with Vegeta he has suffered almost no loss in stamina as well as not really tried. Goku later shows up and in the end defeats Frieza. The efforts of Krillin, Vegeta, ect did not cause much physical damage that you could claim delt a crippling blow to Frieza that allowed Goku to win. With Brook and Zoro’s battle against Ryuma him facing Zoro right after Brook wasn’t them ganging up on him or a team fight. It was a series of 1V1s and it is safe to assume Ryuma was near full strength when he fought Zoro. For the whole Bleach situation it’s slightly different. I don’t think anyone would really argue about weather are not the enemy was in a weakened state or suffered a noticeable loss of stamina after fighting multiple people. But, in the bleach situation they are on a battlefield and not everyone cares about honor or fighting their opponents at their best. The enemy lost a 1V1 because they were weakened by others and they were caught of guard.This is anime not the real world so you have to be kinda loose with your definitions of a 1V1. In the Bleach example it’s unfortunate that they had back to back fights but, it was not meant to be a team effort in that particular case.It is not uncommon to villains to body characters back to back. Like if a villain beats a side character in only a few minutes (in anime time) with little issue but, losses to the main character shortly after it should not be the fault of the main character but, the enemy.As they put themselves in a situation to have a back to back fight even if it was against a “nobody” and a possible “equal”.Like if the hero has to defeat a bunch of trash minions then minutes later he walks to the big bad and loses handedly would you blame grunts A-D for using up “stamina” to be quickly defeated? Again this is anime not real world so there exist power systems and dialogue that usually let you know if battle damage, stamina, or transformations matter overall. I will say there are RT TV fans out here just for the discussions. Watching these guys stand their ground as they talk about crazy and “outlandish” arguments in anime shows how they are apart of the anime community that they joke about so much. I do think that is awesome that they have arguments like this, even joke about it at times, and come back to watch anime as friends later.
put it like this, if Shanks fight Mihawk again now, do you call it 2 vs 1? Mihawk jump shanks with sea kings cuz sea kings makes shanks lost an arm. it feels so wrong right? So it's not. it's still 1v1 but is not fair fight
Dont understand this argument, Stark didnt get jumped he just fought 4 people at once and he was fighting Kyoraku 1v1 this episode but the fact that one ep was a 1v1 doesnt mean the whole fight was 1v1 either, so they both have a point but neither is smart enough to accept the point of the other. Money on the line make people go wild bruh
Do they understand the simple fact that it was a death real fight not a ring fight..In real fight When Stark knocked Shunsui he could have killed him but The guys interupting saved Shunsui, So basically in real fight they jumped between the fight...
Stark had seperate back to back fights he didn't get jumped he one v one shunsui and then knocked him out. Then two niggas popped up and they got put down by starkk and shunsui got back up and then shunsui and starkk fought again. The argument of the wolves being limited affecting his fights doesn't co inside with his fights being one on one or not. If starkk defeted shunsui and then fought old man Yama and stark can't uses wolves because he exhausted them against another person does that mean stark got jumped by Yama , shunsui, love and rose? Of course not that would be dumb Common welz u suppose to be anime king
So you gonna overlook the fact that he got sneak attacked? If I see you knock two dudes out them come up behind you and sucker punch you and you get knocked out. Are you gonna be cool with me saying I beat you fair and square in a 1 on 1? I bet not
@@CoutureThug that's not what happened. After shunsui got knocked out he had evey right to sneak starkk after getting back up regardless who starkk started to fight next this is a war after all. shunsui politely waited till starkk nearly killed love and rose to get back in the fight. If shunsui would of jumped in while love and rose was fighting starkk then that would be them jumping starkk.
@@simpleandcleanedits3846 exactly you proving my point, you allowed to jump people in war. There are no rules. He still sneak attacked him while his attention was towards the other two guys
I disagree with everyone wellz is right. Think of it as you fighting someone and they back up as soon as they back up there homeboys come fight you then you beat there homeboys and you fight another one and as ur fighting ands focused on another one the person you was originally fighting comes behind you punches you in the back of the head and you get knocked out
That doesn't equate to this scenario tho. How? Because in your scenario that one individual was either still fighting or didn't take out the opponent that that single individual was fighting. The reason why everyone was saying it wasn't a jump was because neither the vizards nor shinsui was engaging with starkk the moments they attacked him.
@@sazude2 my bad I meant since he thinks the captain that delivered the final blow to espada 1 counts shouldn’t kenpachis final blow on 0 count too lol
