What is wild about Batman to me is that DC cannot even effectively leverage the Bat Fam. They seem to have a plan for Bruce, Dick and Damian but the rest ???? Marvel has never been that dependent on Spider-man and his family.
Part of the problem is the people they think they are pandering to do not like Batman because he is a white rich male. It's not a secret they literally talk about it all the time. Batman is antithetical to what DC wants to be. Why do you think they keep letting writers absolutely destroy Batman over and over and over.. it's got DC in a weird place because their Cash cow is exactly the s*** they dont want to put out
Wes doesn't delete comments. Only RU-vid does. Besides, I can still see your comment and you're right. Even though Batman is DC Comics' bread and butter, they hate that because he is a straight white male and he is a multi-billionaire, so they hate him because he is also a capitalist. They want so badly to try to replace him with a Communist ideal but they keep on failing. It's hilarious to see them try in vain.@@jonathansoko1085
I'm tired of Marvel trying to make a spider family that isn't MJ, Pete, and their child. The first chapter of Ultimate Spider-man was good. I'm waiting to see if this Ulrimate universe goes anywhere.
The damage DC has done to characters like Tim Drake, Alan Scott, Jon Kent, definitely has hurt them in both the short term and long term. I don't understand the self sabotage, it's like when they do events, went they get things on track even a little bit. And Marvel is just stuck doing the same old thing over and over again.
i'm glad i jumped ship w/the new 52. and i had been collecting for 45+yrs. jim lee ran WS into the ground, so whose bright idea was it to let him "run" DC? call Jim Shooter. as wild an idea that is, i'd actually have hope again.
Once upon a time, DC was the superior alternative to the garbage Marvel was putting out every month, but then DC decided to double-down on everything Marvel was doing and killed any momentum the books had once upon a time.
You can't feel sorry for any comic publisher that is suffering because all this was self-inflicted. DC has chances time and again to turn things around, but they always veered away from those chances. I stopped reading new comics about 4 years ago and I don't miss them at all. They money I used to spend on comics has gone into other hobbies.
I wish I could've pitched any number of stories for B and C list characters to DC back when I cared about mainstream books. Now I'm in the beginning stages of making my own indy superhero stuff. The Guardian, Manhunter, Capt. Atom, etc. just need fans who know what a good superhero story looks like working on them rather than talentless idiots. Seriously... I could've pitched two or three stories for a character like the Ray. What's DC do? "Let's make him gay and lame..."
Same, I wrote a series starring a mix of the charleton heroes, the Steve ditko objectivist heroes, and made tim drake a pre-crisis earth 4 native since chuck Dixon had ideas involving Tim as the blue beetle.(oh also booster gold and enchantress due to connections with Ted kord and nightshade) Even began with judomaster just because he was the most difficult to make something out of. I’m confident it could have been good, if only they took unsolicited works. My big issue with trying to be Indy was a lack of artist collaboration and the fact I don’t like to file serial numbers off. Tell me one of your pitches, it would be a pleasure to read.
They know whats wrong, but they've gotten rid of all the creatives that could fix the problem. And now they can't hire them back because that would make them "allies" with the wrong people. Destroying themselves essentially.
Ditto Jim Lee is horrible and over rated. I can’t stand his art It’s so overblown. Everything DC has is so watered down and worthless. It use to be classic and great many many decades ago with the likes of Adam’s,Bates,Byrne, Moore, Moench
I wanted batman and catwoman to actually get married and have Helena, and maybe have had Damien just adore her and grow up some. And imagine if years down the road johnathan Kent and Helena falling in love over another 20 years. Goddammit that would have been a story arc
I got into DC with Crisis On Infinite Earths which then herald the arrival of John Byrne (Superman), George Perez (Wonder Woman), Mike Baron (Flash), Mike Grell (Green Arrow), Frank Miller and Jim Starlin (Batman), Giffen/DeMatteis (Justice league) and John Ostrander (Suicide Squad) .... not counting Alan Moore (Swamp Thing). DC was really kicking Marvel's butt and that was because they signed the best creators to revitalize their franchises. This lead to Marvel bringing in new blood such as artists Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld to compete with the DC titles. Nowadays, it's the battle of mediocrity between the two.
Can I honestly sit here say that I’m happy right now? Cause at this point… the Entire DC Universe is such a complete and utter mess at this point. That they would literally have to sit there deconstruct it and build it up. It… for it to be any good. The DC Universe… Multiverse… Comic reality, would have to be on par with the Lord of the Rings Universe that Tolkien wrote. That’s literally how much work is going to be needed for this to work out.🧐 I mean if you have like 5 or 10 different versions of Evil in your Universe. You know you’ve messed up.
As far as Dawn of DC, DC comics ALWAYS pulls the rug out when something is good, and do it quicker and quicker now (12 consecutive good issues of anything without bad event interruptions is shocking for DC now. Just doesn't happen. So why would I bother. Not to mention the "headliners" nowadays are hacks like Joshu Williamson because they stopped giving good writers work.
It is malpractice at this point to do what they’ve been doing to Batman. The character is damn near unrecognizable in his main book and Detective Comics at this point. You guys touched on it here but I’m going to reiterate that when Batman continues to be written as an incompetent idiot in his own titles needing to be saved by Catwoman, he is no longer Batman. Bruce is supposed to be the definition of competence. It’s been going on since 2016 when Tom King took over for Rebirth. He can’t stop any crime. He hasn’t protected the city. He can no longer save himself. He lets Alfred die and loses his resources. Catwoman is his mommy. It’s a joke. Don’t get me started on Detective Comics. This long drawn out story by Ram V basically is the same incompetent Batman needing to be saved by…you guessed it! Catwoman! I could go on forever. Everyone wants to blame Tini Howard for Gotham War but I almost think it’s a mandate at this point to show Catwoman as being superior to Batman. I liked Chip’s Daredevil run but I’m starting to notice a pattern. Elektra was a bit too central to his Daredevil run and then Catwoman is now better than Bruce in Gotham War to the point that it makes very little sense. Seems purposeful at this point. The one money maker they have and they’re running it into the ground.
I’m completely done with DC. At the beginning of 2023 they only had six issues of Fables to finish the series. Now in 2024 we are still waiting for the last issue of the series to come out. This is one of the big two and they can’t finish a twelve issue series in less than two years.
I would love to see Wes & Aaron each take over Marvel & DC & go head-to-head to see who can improve their company better. Wes doesn't have the experience & connections that Aaron has in the comics industry but his military background, love & research of comic industry could recruit actual talent to improve things.
Taking Adams off Flash was a mistake. I'm hoping they give him enough time on Green Lantern or, better yet, keep him on GL while letting him have his choice for his next book after Jay Garrick wraps up
@@CoolCATs2814 It's finally getting some momentum, but I haven't liked it as much as I liked Flash. It's been solid so far but the story was kneecapped by being interrupted early on for Knight Terrors
No, I'll certainly believe it. What I have trouble believing is that WBDisco can look at the red ink and not think "let's fire everybody". Doing nothing would lose less money and stop damage the brand. The downside would be all the "talent" they lose, because it's very hard to find self-insert fan-fic writers willing to take over a premium character.
Hard? They would just hire the current Marvel "talent". "But how would Marvel replace their 'talent'?", you ask. Easy. They would just hire the "talent" DC just fired. Both companies are willing to run themselves into the ground to spite the "alt-right" (you know, the fans XD ).
The only goid thing i have going is that i had a period where i stopped colkecting comics before all this began. In the late 80s and i to the 90s. Life and stuff just got in the way of my collecting. Now i have quite a few years of back issues that i can go back and read and enjoy before this stupidity began. Once those back isdues are gone, however, then i guess i will just read manga exclusively. As always, i enjoyed the conversation, thinking Critical is a great channel for comic book discussions!
Jim Lee wanted to be the head guy for Marvel, Disney should be thankful he is tanking DC, look at Suicide Squad Kills the Justice League, this shit show happened under his watch
@@davidgantenbein9362 Jim Lee is Chief Creative Officer meaning he watched over how the DC properties are portrayed across media. Whether he is a figure head or not, he is the one who has to answer for the lost in investment and return just like the many other dood execs involved in the game.
@@jasonirizarry9619 He is chief creative officer of DC comics, the comics publishing division, not of DC Entertainment, the mother company that handles all the rest. As such he has probably less than no power over movies and video games as it’s not part of the division he is working for.
As I predicted last year, and got eviscerated in the comments for doing so, DC got worse than Marvel, but having very few great, while too many terrible titles. Meanwhile, Marvel had some goods, most mediocre, and a few terrible ones. At some point, the terrible ones from DC would scare the customers away from the great titles, no matter what.
Jim Lee is one of my all-time favorite artists, but I have to say he's terrible as an executive for a comics company. I dropped "Batman" long ago, but Aaron is right - if Chuck Dixon got hired to write the book, I'd go back immediately.
He’s a pushover. He’ll uphold the miserable status quo for DC and let these new “creators” continue to play their politics. Anyone with a remote backbone would have stepped on and stopped this destruction, but that’s exactly why Lee is still in charge.
What is criminal is that Dc heroes have a great mythos in their own micro universes. Superman and Green Lantern are great examples of memorable story arcs, development, and villains. They don’t want to put in the work to get people more interested in something other than Batman.
I believe it. I dropped a lot of DC books. Mainly Batman ones. Which isn’t supposed to happen. Isn’t Batman their cash cow? Takes fkn idiots for that to happen.
They pushed too many bad Batman books exactly because they expect everything Batman to sell well. That may work for a while, but eventually the patience of the readers will vane and the sales will tank. Ultimately even the good Batman books will be hurt as people start to expect bad books and simply don’t risk it anymore. It’s a bit similar to the events and crossover fatigue: it was a sales tool that worked as long as fans were invested in the overarching universe, but it was abused to a point where lots of fans just jump ship on events/crossovers.
@@davidgantenbein9362 New reader so starting on the old & working my way up. I have read on this channel it's not worth my time or money to go past a certain point with Batman. With the free flow of internet information people can't get tripped up going into shops blind like back in the day. The need for quality should be a premium in this transparent information age.
Both companies need to dump half of their titles, only publish the quality stories. Because all the trash is pulling the good stuff down with them. And they could free up the money they’re wasting on these writers & artists.
Even the hard sells become impossible sells when the books are written only for the author and the Twitter brigade. I loved the JLI era of the Justice League. I grew up with it. I would have loved a good Fire and Ice mini. But the way things are, I waited for reviews. And what did I get? A bait and switch on the art: great Terry Dodson covers, but middling interiors. And writing that obviously wasn’t aimed at fans of the JLI era. No thanks.
The funny part is I'm not even sad, DC had note one but multiple times to bring back the pre-new 52 universe where all the problems would be fix, but a Jim Boneleess refuse, let they hit rock bottom or worst, so they learn a lesson or two! WOKE MEANS BROKE!!
I will tell you why. Fixing it takes time and you would have to take the long term plan to getting sales back where you want them. If you do something "Ultimate" style you get an instant sales boost from it and you can then hope the quality holds the readers and sales. The failure of the NEW52 was that once you got off the "X" many people that came in to just by the first 6 to 12 issues of the new universe (Yes this did happen. I was there. I experienced these sales. All they did was stick them in a box so hopefully in 5 to 10 years they can sell them for profit.) then you are left with the people buying it to actually read it...and they find out it's not very good. That was a case where DC should have "fixed" its titles and universe on a long term plan. Instead Didio took the "flasher" idea and went with NEW52. And NEW52 was not the equivalent of the DC reboot post Crisis on Infinite Earths...cause was nowhere as good. WTF20.
Not to mention DC gone overboard of covering up female characters that needs to stop i mean they really should give WONDER WOMAN her star-spangled short trunks back and remove her skirt PERMANENTLY, while giving the cool headed personality she had in SUPERFRIENDS cartoon back as well as giving WW her Diana Prince secret identity back, while retaining all her powers including flight and give her Goku and avatar Korra like powers a bit, and Harley Quinn her shorts back, giving POWERGIRL her white leotard back, and no pants period, make DC comics female characters great again
Marvel and dc will never get better until someone comes in and let's go of non contributors. It won't happen since the industry is dominated by a bunch of buddies who keeps covering for each other. Manga and webtoon are successful because it's sink or swim. The author of Naruto had a series canceled (post Naruto) because it was not doing well enough. Only way those companies are going to get on track is when someone with some real creative ideas buys them and heads roll. Would not hold Mt breath.
Anger, high blood pressure, frustration, finally I see why my brother doesn't like talking DC with me. At this point, a new owner and a company wide restoration might be the only solution.
Wes, an outsider take on Jim Lee: He is not "doing anything" because "he has done it all." He has been an indie and "a company man." He was looked at in contempt and as a savior. He has sold out, and cashed in. Outside of him seeing one of his characters in a live action movie, he has done television and... possibly video games? But in the end, much like Jack Kirby AND Stan Lee, he has found out the hard truth, but he can leave with his health and sanity relatively intact.
Saw random people online defending DC. I thought they were bots, but they tried to say Dc was doing great and making billions…lololol I almost fell off my elliptical.
This is because of the shift in LA and it's another reason why DC shouldn't be owned by WB and should be given independence as a brand and as a film studio somewhere out here in the eastern parts of the US.
The best thing that could happen is if they pulled a marvel knight imprint and if it succeds either expand the line or pull a Joey Q and make him eic. Jimmy Palmiotti would be the best choice with his rolodex.
I've bought DC more this year than anything. But I did drop Fire And Ice and wont even consider AS Green Lantern. Batman and Robin, Shazam, and Sandman are good though. Also liked Titans Beast World. Batman Off World is fun too.
Even MARVEL eased up on covering their female characters a bit, such as back in 2022 they gave She-Hulk her sexy 90s/2000s leotard outfit back being one hugely great example as well as her sassy and cool personality back thanks to Rainbow Rowell, Rorge Antonio and their team greatly reversed the damage that horrible mariko tamaki did to her in half end of previous decade, but most of their female characters are fully clothed Carol Danvers Captain Marvel is fully clothingly armored, same with Emma Frost, Shadowcat and etc.
I checked DC sales in past january in the Top 50 of Comic Book Sales and just 10 DC books figured in the list. Half them are Batman titles. MArvel books figure in 33 positions of the top 50. Yes Marvel are killing DC in the sales. In this rhythm Image titles will surpass DC in the sales very soon. When Batman books stop to sell this will mean the demise of DC. Keep in mind that Wells ASM is very bad and yet sold more copies than Chip Zdarsky Batman.Besides Spider-man the X-Men books are terrible right now too and yet DC just can't surpass Marvel in sales. This can be the begin of the end for DC in a next future.
It's not that Howard is wanting for editing. She is delivering precisely what DC hired her to do - be wammen who is some kind of gay. If DC were looking for her to improve then they might encourage her to be black.
Big blue is a great chapter, but he is not the easiest character to write a compelling cliff-hanger story without leveraging a Batman rogue., or changing a Superman villain to antagonistic, but still seemingly reformed character. Without going to the cancelled list of writers and artists, Superman and most, if not all DC titles will remain off the independent top-10 lists. Marvel may actually be in worse straights at this point in the race towards apathy.
Jim Lee, Tom King, Tini Howard, Tom Taylor, Tim Sheridan to name a few all need to go. It's a shame that DC has copied Marvel's past mistakes and suffered for it.
Great comments guys it would be nice if more audience would flow to your channel and a few less mystery box openings or slab fluffing. These writers today are to storytelling what Liefeld is to the comic artist masters like Kubert and Romita.
Marvel was better before Disney bought them up. When they were an independent company, no Mavel editor in chief would have allowed such bad titles be published. It would have bankrupted them....
It's so strange-Batman & Catwoman are my favorite characters, yet I have negative interest in their current titles. On the other hand I don't care much for Superman and Shazam yet am enjoying those a lot. It's really sad when you just have nothing to look forward to in regards to your favorite characters. Feels awful, and the fact that tini howard can fail so tremendously both subjectively (fan outcry) and objectively (sales) yet still get constant work speaks volumes as to the pathetic state of DC.
DC isn't going to change under Jim Lee should he was happy at marvel when Todd McFarlane arouched him about joining image comics and his wild storm stuff was subpar until Jim got a good writer on it....he just likes the fame but not the work ...
If all of what you’re saying is so apparent, this talk has been going on for years now, what I don’t understand is why no one else sees this ? I’m referring to higher ups even above Lee?
Both DC & Marvel have gone woke I have been buying both since 1963 but no more I either read pre woke old stuff or Indy but no more no stuff from DC or Marvel!!!
Wes talks about Batman still in the same story arc.......look at venom! 30 issues! same story arc! i'm so pissed! why did I hang on for this long!? ya DC has a lot of issues. i'm only getting batman and batman mini-series'. and i'm probably gonna drop batman very soon if things don't get better.
I just put in my order for the April solicitations, and I figured I'd try the Catwoman title just to see how it is. I like the cover and figured why not. The really bad thing is that it's the only comic book from DC (monthly or mini/maxiseries) I'm getting that month. I ordered a few hardcovers and/or trades too from them, but that's it. Dipping my toe back in the water the last few months, nothing else I found was remotely interesting to me. Three months in, I've went from 8 comics to 4 to now just the 1. I am trying out Ghost Machine's (Image) three titles out that month however & will do so for the near future.
The Catwoman run has fantastic covers (I love the pulp ones and the space one coming out) but wretched writing. It is carried entirely by the cover art/variants and yet still cannot breach the top 100. Harley Quinn is another dreadful book that howard has somehow made even worse, but the covers aren't as good.
Wes and Aaron are right, Tini Howard has never put out a successful comic story period yet she keeps getting work, ive read one of her comics pre-DC and MARVEL work , even that never quite reach successful level
DC also doesn’t help themselves when it comes to their online shop or online comics. I live in Canada and would love to buy their stuff but I can’t because I don’t live in America. During DC Rebirth I was really enjoying Supergirl but the last 3 issues were download only so I couldn’t buy them. DC. Said nothing about changing it over
Oh the top 3 in the Tini Howard award have something in common, what is it? They’re all the same, what? What are they? Maybe they can’t write superhero comics, maybe. Maybe they should be writing teen slice of life stories far away from action superhero stories.
while I do actually like spi spurrier and this his new run on flash is amazing, I do shee your point in not allowing creators to really let their ideas grow
I walked away from comics this year. I was a huge dc fan for years but after death metal I stopped. And this year i decided im done with star wars comics, the franchise has been butchered and the comics aren't too bad but the price is too high for me to justify the hobby.
I feel like the RAM V story should have been a maxiseries. I feel like Batman can be experimented with, and this story is more intellectual than most Batman. But Detective has always been the more complex stories and more risky storylines. But it's kind of like trying to put an indie style story in a mainstream comic and just like Hollywood that hardly ever worked. I mean Grant Morrison's Batman run made me hate the title, even though I do like Damien.
LOL LOL LOL!! Thank you Aaron. Love that reference. Funny thing is by that response we know you care...which means you want to read if given the chance too again. WTF20.
Still Buying Dr Strange ( not reading it ) Also Superman Titles ( not reading Those ) Can’t wait for Superman Silver Age Omnibus vol 1 and Golden Age vol 8
