Hey, so that occasional pink flashing behind the comics is really weird and not intentional. I think it’s a strange export error. My apologies if you are photosensitive. Like I said at the start, feel free to just have the audio on in the background and treat this like a podcast.
Thanks for the deep dive Scott!! It got my through the whole day. Can I please, please beg you to consider doing a follow-up comparing the "late Ditko" era to the "Superior Spider-man" storyline? I wonder if there's anything good there to explore. Also, thank you again for doing "It's Probably Not Aliens". It's my absolute second-favorite podcast after "Well There's Your Problem" the podcast about engineering disasters (with slides).
Hey, big fan of the channel, but I just wanted to bring something to your attention that inadvertently triggered my wife's anxiety and it has to do with some of the background effects with transitional panels. There's a flickering effect that's a pink/purple color ringing the inner panel. My wife took one look and she freaked out. She's fine now for reference. I know weird comment, but if it affected her like this, it probably has affected others. Thanks for reading, great video overall.
Scott is one of those genuine people who even if I'm not super into what he's talking about I'll still sit and hang out with him for as long as he'd like to talk about whatever he's interested in today
Actually, according to Ditko, Norman was always the plan. If you go back and read his Goblin issues, Norman's in the background of Johan's country club almost every time. Ditko last few issues heavyly have Norman doing Goblin things. Like having enough power to knock out Spider-Man with a punch, and sniping someone who was on the top floor of a skyscraper. Norman could only reach him on with some kind of flying machine. Stan's pushback was wanting it to be grander with Harry being Peter's BFF and Norman as a father figure. Where Ditko just wanted him to be an evil businessman friend of JJJ, and his son Harry was a rich jerk in the popular kids who loner Peter hated. Stan's idea was clearly the right move.
@@jokx4409 Stan's idea is what ultimately happened and became the coded gospel for the characters, Ditko's is what he wanted it to be. Ditko was a fantastic artist with great ideas, but Stan as a writer really understood drama and pathos, and that greatly elevated the work Ditko and his other collaborators put out.
Well, it actually has more to do with the fact that Stan refused to give Steve his due credit because with the Marvel Method, the artist was basically writing and pacing half of the book along with their art duties. Stan balked at the idea of listing Steve as a co-writer, and when he did it was in such a backhanded way. So Steve, rightfully frustrated and recently converted to objectivism, quit.
Huh, do you have source for those being Stan's ideas/plans? With his first appearance under Ditko and Lee establishing right off the bat that Norman and Harry had a poor relationship despite Harry being otherwise unsympathetic, I always wondered where it would have gone if Ditko hadn't left. On the other hand, I'm not sure I buy that Stan planned for Norman to become a father figure, as that element isn't introduced untill decades later and after Norman's revival.
In a way I think having this era of Spider-Man history with Peter being a selfish objectivist jerk during his early years makes him more relatable. The reason being because a lot of teenagers, especially teenage boys, kinda go through that edgy "libertarian" like phase when they're that age and eventually learn to grow out of it when they actually grow up and begin to understand how the real world works and develop a sense of empathy. It's also realistic that Peter would still struggle with those feelings even after Uncle Ben's death because it's a process to change your worldview and it's possible to slip back into old habits or ways of thinking early on. Obviously that wasn't Ditko's intention as he simply thought these ideas were correct, but with hindsight this is an interesting perspective and something that makes Peter Parker feel more real.
@@doclouis4236 I think all right leaning people are fundamentally flawed in their ideology, but right wing libertarianism is especially corruptible to bad actors. The amount of pedophile arguments I’ve heard from self described libertarians about how it shouldn’t matter what the age is etc is too much to count.
I'm studying culture and media, and honestly this video feels like it could be a lecture in one of my classes. The link between the philosophy and the media, the creating process, the inequality between writers and artists. Very well done! Without knowing it you create content that's not only entertaining but also useful! Truly awesome!
Scott is like that cool older cousin with a lot of opinions on various subjects that you listen to regardless of what he's saying because it's nice to see him talk about things he enjoys.
I find it interesting that there is a clear pattern of people claiming to not care what others think in a way that show that they care immensely. I mean I guess we’ve all internalized a problem but that’s not a healthy thing to do. Especially not for 50 years.
Commenting about not caring doesn't necessarily imply that they care; there is a craving in commenting itself, regardless of the opinion of the others. Btw, I agree it's common to pretend that we don't care what other people think about us, but the truth is that we do care.
It is so odd when people adopt that world view because it is the complete opposite of our social interactions as a specias. We are literally social animals we need to interact with others but some of the ways we have set up our societies become polar opposite or even hinder that aspect.....If anyone has an answer to this let me know but "greed" is not an inherent trait in humans is it or just a learned one?
i love how scott went on a deep dive looking through flaws on ditko's belief, but then ties it back to how he fell into such belief. instead of villainizing ditko, he put a lot of empathy on his commentary, staying true to his critic of objectivism.
That era of the character is one I appreciate quite a lot, because it isn't until you really compare Ditko's era Peter to any other version of him that you realize just how much of an unmature teenager Peter was, and even if some of the over the top dialogue and panels can be considered as a "Product of their time", it's one of my favorite eras of the character because you can really feel the pent up emotions of Peter, and when you later read about all the other characters that were further explored with Romita and new writers and artists even further down the line it feels nice to see just how far Peter has come, or at leas it feels like that to me
Right. Peter going from being mutually antagonistic with Gwen, Harry and Flash to letting his guard down and having them (even Flash eventually) do so in turn feels like character development. In reality it's the switch from Ditko to Romita-Lee, but it feels natural. It may not have been Ditko's intent, but he put in place character flaws for later writers to use. I like seeing Peter struggle with his hot-headedness and his isolationist tendencies, to try and overcome them and do the right thing. Doing good isn't a natural instinct, it's a conscious choice. That's what makes Peter both relatable and inspiring to me.
@@gota7738Honestly who wouldn't be somewhat of a jerk in Peter's case? He lived his whole life without his parents and knowing why they even left him. He was bullied from the get go just for being himself Makes sense that onwards he is not so willing to be so nice anymore and has no issue being your enemy. Uncle Ben's death didn't help either
Ditko’s run was the best run in my opinion. No story has come close to the Master Planner saga where Peter Parker redeemed himself, threw off his guilt, saved his Aunt, stood up to JJJ. Awesome payoff. He created all those characters, those villains still used today. Lot’s of unfortunate myths about Ditko out there. Not a perfect man, but I think his Spider-Man and Dr. Strange were the best versions.
Spider-man fans when the bullied, isolated man with no parents, friends and fully blames himself for getting his uncle killed isn't a happy go lucky teddy bear of a human.
Man why does this video hit me so hard? I totally feel like Steve right now, I feel like I just want to be alone and push everyone away but after watching this I feel like Scott is speaking to me and telling me, "Hey man, I'm here for. We're here for you!💜" Thank you Scott for not making me feel so alone right now.💜
I echo some sentiments that Peter starting out that way is actually a neat unintentional character-growth thing. Like, just seeing start as a pissed off nerd and then see him soften up a bit as the series progresses.
I always felt like Spider-Man No More storyline was when Peter actually learned that "with great power comes great responsibility", and it was a whole way until there.
@@mickeyconnor830 Oh, I'm not referring to Scott. I'm referring to Ditko's essays where he feels the need to say the same thing 3 times like he's MoJo JoJo from Power Puff Girls
Very interesting history on Steve Ditko, sort of disagree with the take on Spider-Man, his explosive temper was something that was a big part of the character for many more years after Steve Ditko left. Also the Sandman being caught by police was only able to happen because Spider-Man beat him up first and he was too tired to fight back properly.
Late response but yeah, Peter’s anger issues is something that’s a component to him. I don’t really like the modern idea of making Peter / Spider-Man relatable in the sense that he’s treated as a blank slate when he isn’t. Peter is a character with a distinct personality.
Also in the comics when he was going through a hard time with his emotions and not to mention his anger issues he bonded to venom. And in the later comics this is one of the reasons Venom became more corrupted. I feel really bad for all the spiderman villains. Like this kid fr just makes my blood boil even though he's a fictional character I'm passionate about characters lol 😅
Partly because Stan wrote that issue alongside Ditko. That teenage angst and temperamental attitude is captivating, I’ll give it that, but can be self-destructive if left unchecked.
I think having Spider-Man being selfish, angry and arrogant is what makes a teenager because it was the first 38 issues which perfectly capture his temper and immaturity. Also if people are going to fear you, hate you, think you as a menace despite what all you have done for them then it is better to not be a superhero at all. He puts his life at stake, loses the people he loves but somehow he comes back to become Spider-Man just because of " with great power comes great responsibility"?? Also if you are dating someone like Betty Brant who gets jealous when she sees Peter just talking to Liz and later on asks whether she should marry ned or not despite dating peter, then you have the right to get angry. Also the protestors stated that they were protesting about some other protest meeting which was kind of ridiculous and he talked to them after he had an argument with ned Leeds, got screamed by Jonah, was worried about Betty Brant after she suddenly disappeared and after he fought another villian.
To be fair, the way Betty and Liz are written in these early issues is a super sexist portrayal that is both of its time and very incel-ish. It's not right to excuse Peter's actions when the writer knowingly created female characters who behave like morons just so his self-insert can righteously defy them and call them out on their jealous, fickle ways. Not to mention, Peter literally interrupted Betty before she had the chance to say "But I'm NOT agreeing to marry Ned, I love you" and ghosted her for days because he already decided he can't be with her anymore. She didn't do anything wrong in that particular incident
I used to have an avowed ancap in my friendgroup. No idea if he was at all influenced by Ayn Rand directly, but SO MUCH of her ideology reminds me of him. And lo and behold, Rorschach was the unqualified hero of Watchmen in his eyes. I would really like to emphasize the "used to" in my first sentence.
Paul Ryan, a former (and very recent) Speaker of the House constantly advocated for her books. As the anti-vaxxers like to tout these days, "Let that *sink* in."
Holy shit...lol Rorschach? That's a bit on the nose for your old friend. Folks who idolize him and say Rick scare me. I can't believe people don't get that they are good characters because they are bad people.
Ah rorschach. The psychopathic stinky murderer who pretends he doesn't compromise his moral code and reads a white supremacist newspaper. Or for teenagers who read watchmen for the first time, their favorite 'superhero.'
This idea of self preservation reminds me of Jesse Pinkman’s arc in Breaking Bad he learns to live for himself instead of letting the people around him make the choices for him the difference being that Jesse was locked in a hole for five months for Walt’s mistakes while Ditko and those who share that philosophy blame their own mistakes on others it’s a very small tight rope to walk but it’s important to walk that line in a good way
I think it's safe to say this is one of those things in which you need to strike a balance. Selfcare is important, that goes without saying, but we also need to look out for each other.
Honestly, Spider-Man being a jerk makes him more relatable. He was 14-15 when he got bit by that spider. This might come as a shock to most of us but: Teenagers are awful people sometimes.
The thing is Peter was not only in college, but also has already grown from that exact mindset, and the problem was that this wasn’t treated as a regression in character for a certain reason, it was just treated as the right thing
It's funny how people say Andrew Garfield Spider-Man is not comic accurate. But when you actually read the original comics he is probably the closest in personality.
Yes! Implicitly Pretentious points this out. Tobey's is the least accurate in this regard while Tom's is closer but Garfield's maintains the sly trickster aspect more than the others. Also, the tone of Ditko's stories are a comedic sitcom which was depicted well in the Watts films, a tone people took issue with when the other adaptations tried to apply the more dramatic tone that the Romita run depicted. Not an objectivist myself but this guy misses the point, but Peter's confidence and self confidence is built up and beautifully paid off through the Spider-Man No More arc as he decided to be the hero without caring what other people think, especially Jameson.
@@soychidoese I think people miss interpret the point when they say that "this" is the best Spider-Man, all I can i see and hear in their view is the best idealistic version of a hero. Thats not Peter/Spidey. The whole point was that Peter is a constantly growing and changing character, he is a young teen growing into a young man obviously he is self centered when he has no parents, he is an outcast who is not accepted and is kinda poor. Raimi's Peter never changes he literally stays the same throughout the 3 films bcz when he changes he becomes selfish (SM3), guilt is the driving force of those films. You put it right that Watts got the sitcom tone right. Raimi got the essence of what a hero means (and also made 2 fantastic films). Webb got the characters right but the setting, the story, the pacing, the editing of the films were not that great. And Agreed that Spider-Man No More arc was great.
I will never not love when a NerdSync video comes out. This was a solid way to decompression from the new Spider-Man movie. This couldn't have come out at a better time. And i could watch Scott teach me stuff about comics for the rest of my life lol
"Rorschach is a joke, and if you like him, you missed the entire point." I never really liked the Watchmen movie, and now I think I know why: Zack Snyder missed the entire point, and by extension, all the fans of the movie did too, not just Rorschach, but everything else in it as well.
Well his character started out that way. That is a major part of his origin. I suppose it makes sense he might need to relearn that a couple times later for that lesson to finally sink in completely. But it was there from the start as a powerful moral lesson ... the whole with great power comes great responsibility.
@@christopherb501 That's fine ... but there is a reason why the orginal comic version is THE superhero for Marvel. Ultimates ... pft. Fine if you like them but just not the same.
@@christopherb501 Same, this a bit personal, but as a child was told by my groomer that he "would hurt my parents if i told". I didn't tell till 5 or 7 years later, and at that point i had forgot his identity beyond his face. This sounds kind of stupid, but i relate to peter parker in sense we both should of acted sooner but didn't. I still feel guilty that "man" is out there uncaught and mostly likely harming more children. I might lack the powers to help others on a grand a scale, but still do my to report anything that i find and comfort victims. that's why i find that MCU and Objectivist Spiderman, misunderstand what i relate to on a core level. Peter saw what apathy leads to in his uncle's death, and thus becomes Spiderman. the other two are motivated by self interest, like showing up to Stark. They remind me of people who send death threats to pro-shippers and pretend that "helps" grooming victims to get attention. i don't if this makes any sense, but that what peter should be based on my personal code. Some who suffered and acts to prevent the suffering of others, despite if it benefits him personaly.
Randian selfishness is misunderstood. Her claim was that all people behave in a selfish way. We act on anything which helps what we're interested in. If your friends are being insulted, your interest in them will cause you to defend them. If you're part of a group, you'll defend it. You defend your family, your community. That's a form of selfishness.
I remember the British TV presenter Jonathan Ross, a huge Marvel comics fan, and a devoted admirer of Ditko, trying to get an interview. After much effort, he was delighted to be allowed to talk, alone, off the record, to him. Ross was unable to tell us much of the meeting as I recall, but it was a high point of his own life, and one of the last such meetings Ditko would grant
So by your own admission you won't read this comment (since it comes too late), but wow, probably the best essay you've done. Too many comic review channels are just "hey, here's a thing. this comic sucks", but your deep dives into the background, political leanings, and philosophies of the creators, and how that informed what they did is really unparalleled and truly brings a better, deeper understanding of their creations and the themes they were trying to get across, for better or worse... (side note, reading back, I think that's the longest sentence I've ever written. English teachers may weep, but I'll just leave it as is for posterity sake if nothing else!) Rambling aside, chalk this up to another vote in the 'you don't need elaborate sets and flashy effects, please just keep your sincerity, love of the medium, and great insights coming, and we'll follow you for as long as you want to keep going' column.
It's kind of something that Peter has changed over the times, even when marvel keeps resetting him and trying to keep him static. I enjoy the MCU Peter because... honestly? He's willing to take the harder path if it might doing the right thing or save the other person. And others will see it and do better in turn. Peter is kind. I'm not sure what the future is, but whatever is thrown at him, Peter always perseveres and continue to be a hero.
« I enjoy the MCU Peter because… I honestly don’t know the real comics Peter and throw a bunch of thing who are supposedly different betters MCU Peter and real comics Peter Parker” Nice dude
@@RemixerUltimate let’s just focus on the stuff we like about any iteration of Spidey. He has heart, he has quips, he has brains, and somehow not a lot of common sense and is a doom magnet.
My favorite professional "subtweet" about Ditko's politics was in Uncanny X-Men 123, where Spider-Man cameos in an Arcade story. Chris Claremont (with John Byrne) has Spidey ranting in an internal monologue about how broke he is after paying his income taxes. It's delightful.
I feel like this inspired Dr Octopus’s storyline in insomniac’s Spider-man. He was left bitter after a large corporation stole his work, so he stopped caring about others and ended up hurting Spider-Man
I love Stan Lee's Spider-Man but his tenure got better after Ditko left. When Romita came on board, the series got really good and the character started to really grow up
@@raphaelcurleyOh please, he was good but he was never the best one. Just because he was an objectivist like you doesn’t mean you should be sucking him off
@@raphaelcurleyit’s really not very mainstream lol. I’d argue even romita isn’t the most common choice for best spidey artist. macfarlane is THE most popular spidey artist, by far, and Bagley is my personal choice for favorite. Ditko isn’t even top 5, if it weren’t for the fact that he was The First Guy, he wouldn’t be remembered for his work on spider-man.
Honestly, I love the Mysterio/Stark connection in Far From Home. Having Quentin Beck be the developer of B.A.R.F. was a stroke of genius on the filmmakers' part.
I find myself very conflicted about what makes art good, an individual vision or one that is the result of a collaboration. George R.R. Martin's quote "Art is not a democracy" comes to mind and it personifies the former view. I guess one of my baselines for all of this is George Lucas and how he wrote Star Wars. I'm a huge Star Wars fan (did my profile pic and name not give it away) and I have tremendous respect for the story Lucas put out. He created a story that could have only come from him and had he given the people working with him too much power, the saga very likely would not have been as good as it was. But then again, some of the greatest ideas in Star Wars came about because George Lucas listened to his family, his friends, his directors, etc. While Star Wars is obviously his baby and he was the primary visionary, it was a team effort that became the fantastic story it was because of other people. I do think that there is a danger in art becoming too beholden to multiple opinions. I think that so many different perspectives and opinions lead to inevitable contradictions and if all these different perspectives have a voice in the final product it will lead to the art contradicting itself. For proof, look no further that the Star Wars sequel trilogy. But I think art needs to be criticized and tested and that opinions of people who know what they are talking about need to be valued. So at the end of the day, I am in favor of a more singular vision for art. I think that a single person needs to have the courage and conviction to spearhead a project that could only come from them. But I also think that that person should be humble enough to draw inspiration from a large variety of sources and that includes hearing out what the other people working with him on the project have to say. Those other voices should never over power the primary creator, but they need to be listened to respected. I think that's what George Lucas did with Star Wars and it resulted in a 6 part (yeah, I'm counting the prequels!) masterpiece! I'm even going to include the Clone Wars in there because listening to behind the scenes footage of Dave Filoni and how he tempered some of Lucas's more outlandish ideas is also very entertaining and again exemplifies my point about how it's great to have a singular vision that tempered by those around you.
Honestly my favorite example of collective/democratic art is just... Mythology. Or if I had a specific example, the Illiad and the Odyssey. Sure they were written/codified by Homer, but those stories are at least 2900 years old.
I like at the beginning that he is more arrogant, selfish and the vibe of a teen that has a chip on his shoulder to the more understanding and selfless, caring Peter. Its kinda like he changes after the battles and the lessons he learns, I know that wasn't planned out but I like to think so
Scott, you're a treasure. Every day that includes a new Nerdsync video is a good day. I still go back through your old videos just to hear you talk about comicbooks and superheroes while I'm doing my chores around the house everyday, I love the tone of your work and how much work you clearly put into researching your scripts and shooting your videos. This post has no real point, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you. 😄😄
Steve Ditko, the co creator of a hero who's philosophy is with great power comes with great responsibility. Also Steve Ditko, who followed a philosophy that was with great power comes with no responsibility.
I love this style of content, I want a super deep dive into Stan Lee. ZYou’re creativity and writing and research could be insanely interesting. Please Scott I beg lol.
Man imagine if Scott shaved his head. How smooth would his head be? Do you think it would help him remember jokes he made a couple of months ago but that we've only heard this week? Who knows
So Ditko drew and wrote Peter Parker to reflect himself, while Stan Lee created and wrote J. Jonah Jameson and Reed Richards to reflect himself... What tells me is that the 1960s reaaaally needed therapists.
I always love when you include any politics in comics, but specially against Ayn Rand lol. This is one of my favorite videos you've done on Spider-man, love your message towards the end, great work :)
At 30:06 u left out a lot of context on why he wants to quit being Spider-man and when he decided to be Spider-man again it wasn't because Aunt May said "u worry about yourself and I worry about myself" she taught Peter a lesson about NEVER QUITING! And Peter didn't mean that he won't have to worry about Aunt May forever, just right now. Peter would have done anything to save Aunt May, even give up being Spider-man so May won't die of heartbreak, if by any chance Peter dies in a battle. He lost Uncle Ben not long ago, and he wouldn't have let May die because of his own failure like last time with Uncle Ben.
A story I loved was the else world tale Spider-Man Life Story. The Peter Parker there has aspects of Ditko as proud, stand offish and an assertiveness that would push the people around them. But seeing him recieve immediate recoil for his actions, debate on his position in the world especially during Vietnam. It is a Peter Parker who strives to do right by himself and right in general. Which gives me moments where I love and hate him. He constantly bickered with Mr. Fantastic about the good they could do, and their responsibility to the world. Reed was right but Peter's Pride would ultimately sever their relationship. They would become more amicable during the secret wars, but unlike Reed, he never wants to loose the connections he has with his work. I also love that he butt heads with Iron man for perpetuating the war irresponsibly and respects Captain America with a sense of reverence, and sees him as equal as he grows.
To be fair ... fans can be jerks. Ask Lucas and every superhero post that dwindles into DC vs Marvel. Ditko isn't entirely wrong. It was just magnified later by the internet.
Loved this video, I love how your channel and Implicitly Pretentious are uploading videos about the early years of Spidey comics. I think people ussualy only talk about the Amazing Fantasy 15 and maybe the first issue of Amazing Spiderman whrn they talk about this period. Thanks.
I've started reading the Ditko comics recently and I've been enjoying myself. Up until issue 30. We've seen Peter get a little mad at flash before but I've never really minded it. In issue 30 as you said, where Peter got mad at Ned, I was rubbed the wrong way. Thank you for addressing all of my general concerns with how Peter was acting. Along with giving me a good amount of context for Ditko.
This feels (and is) like an anti Ditko video. Because a lot of facts of Ditko being told in this video are far from the truth or were stretched, just because the majority of people is anti objectivism and especially because they hate Rand. And don't get me wrong, I don't like her either nor subscribe to objectivism. But people tend to take it to an extreme to the point that any objectivism follower like Ditko is put into a negative spotlight. So, while some of the objectivism is present in Ditko's Spiderman run, it's not fully released like in Mr A. In fact, it is restrained. That's why when I heard all the criticism of Peter of Ditko's run, it is clear that is blown out of proportion especially the tiny objectivism fragments present in the comic. Like I said, there is, but not as much as this video makes it seem. Because a lot of Peter loneliness, is due to the fact that he's worried about many things, especially Spidey things, which makes look like a loner (in fact, there's a constant gag of Peter being so worried about his aunt and Spidey things, that he misses people invitations and thus making people to think he's a loner, show off and better-than-everyone-else kind of guy, when in truth he's so worried that he misses his surroundings), and being a teenager and still figuring things out, makes him think that he's destined to be alone when I'm fact he doesn't want to be, but having great power comes with great responsabilty, thus why he continues to be Spiderman and do good, even at the cost of loneliness. That's why despite being alone, he is always trying to surround around people whenever he can, especially in university where these feelings increase as he starts becoming an adult and he has no time to do what normal teens and adults do. So, this video, takes those little details and amps them up to make his points on why supposedly this era of Spiderman is bad or why this Spidey is too "Rand", when it is not. In fact, by the end of Ditko's run, Peter has grown and has started to accept more his role as a selfless hero and less angry and resentful. But as Ditko left, he couldn't finish Peter's development. As Ditko gave the seeds for what would come for Pete and which Romita grew and did. In fact, there are various moments where Pete realizes his angry and selfish attitude, but ends up calming down and doing the selfless thing even at the cost of lots of things. And there's even many inspiring moments when Pete shows his best self and his best traits stomping his worst traits, to be the selfless hero he would later truly become. Like I said before. A lot of Ditko's facts are blown out of proportion for the sole fact if him being and objectivist. Because despite him being a loner, he wasn't this guy who hated people. Nevertheless, Ditko's run was good and the one who cemented Spiderman as a great and relatable character. Sadly people can't see beyond their beliefs, and put Ditko and his run under a dark cloud, doing exactly what they complain about Ditko that he supposedly was a narrow minded guy, which is ironic.
"Look, nobody should be bullied for liking comic books, there are plenty of legimimate reasons to bully Steven Ditko" that took a turn I wasn't expecting lmaoooo
"Caring about others doesn't make you weak." No, but there's far to much evil done in the name of "compassion" in this world. And that's no way to live life or run a society either.
I actually wrote a final project (in the form of a podcast) for one of my media analysis classes on the various cinematic portrayals of Spider-man, and one thing I've noticed is that Spider-man movies really want to pigeonhole him into a very specific kind of nerd. He's not isolated because he's weird, he's weird because he isolates himself. He's not a nerd who will ramble unprompted about chemistry, you'd have to get close enough to him for him to be comfortable enough to talk nerdy to you, and good luck getting that close in the first place. You'll see it over and over, Peter gets invited out, he rejects the invite, and his classmates assume he thinks he's too cool to hang out with them. Flash even spells this out to Peter after he comes back from the war. He's not bad with ladies, he's bad at keeping them. At a certain point, after Gwen started becoming a regular character, you'd be hard-pressed to find a period where less than two girls aren't vying for his attention. Due to the nature of his hero work (and lbr his own flaws), he ends up being a neglectful partner. To his credit, I think the nature of keeping his secret identity pushes him towards isolation because he thinks of himself as a danger or something the people around him can't handle (and to be fair, the person he loves most in the whole world is staunchly anti-spider-man for a long time, not to mention Betty's borderline Spider-man-induced psychosis or Black Cat LITERALLY freaking the fuck out the first time she saw him without a mask, so I can see where he gets the idea).
I didn’t know what to expect from this video with me just discovering your channel, but I love how detailed and interesting you made the rather boring topic of objectivism. Great job on the video! I can’t wait to check out more of your content
as a psychology student and a big spider-man fan, it's fascinating to look at these two worlds collide during the time where ditko was at helm of spidey (amazing video as always)
Steve Ditko wrote Peter as a loner because Peter still hadn't gotten over it. Ditko wrote Peter as volatile because he had no confidants and he was still a teen. Ditko wrote Peter as *not* "a joiner," at protests, because Ditko didn't think most college students actually understood the various aspects of what they were protesting. As evidence of this, his nephew, who is a curator of the Ditko collection, offered a conversation he had with his uncle when he was in college. Mark Ditko said he was going to protest something. Steve said that was okay, but asked Mark what he knew about the issues. Mark didn't yet understand much, but had wanted to protest. Steve explained that he didn't think protesting would help much and encouraged to take other action. That's not a sign of self-centeredness. And Ditko wasn't an "objectivist," but appreciated various philosophers, including Aristotle and Ayn Rand.
(Bit of spoilery, I guess, at least thematically) I actually really liked how No Way Home makes a case against objectivism. With Doctor Strange (y'know, Steve Ditko's second to most important co-creation for Marvel) acting as a literal personification of the trolley problem and Aynn Rand's utilitarist thinking.
yet from what I heard, the villians were brought in from just before their deaths, the Spiderman's cured them, and they were sent back... to moments just before their deaths, They may have been cured, but they are still going to die
Another thing about the Green Goblin identity twist of being a nobody was that it was already done: the Crimemaster and Electro already had that bit earlier in the series.
Excellent video, Scott! When you started on Ayn Rand's philosophy I was on pins and needles waiting to see if you addressed her accepting social security checks. I've long felt that Spider-Man wouldn't have made it to one hundred issues had Steve Ditko remained on the title. [Side note: once John Romita Sr. ditched trying to mimic Ditko's style, Peter Parker became more like Archie Andrews with his own version of Betty and Veronica.]
I think Steve Ditko is an incredibly interesting creator, because of his outlooks on life. Creations like the Question or Mr. A, have this view that truth is objective, that morality is black and white. It's so interesting. But at the end his best creation isn't Spiderman, but I think it's Captain Atom. Go Back and read those. Interestingly these have a better outlook on life than his others have in my opinon.
I would love to see a video on the ultra verse and how ownership of characters and how media companies dealing with that issue can harm characters and how that very process of control can mean that nothing new can be done with those characters.
I think some of what happened in Peter's story was taken a bit out of context here. Some of those negative scenes with Betty Brant were intentional. Like he knew that she was worried about fighting and that sort of stuff after her brother died and he saw that there was no future where Betty could or would be happy with him. He didn't want to hurt her feelings or make her feel like her feelings were invalidated. He just kind of showed a glimpse of the other side and it scared her off and into the arms of her husband. The standing apart from people thing was a combination of him being too busy with all the stuff he was trying to do and not wanting to be pushed into a group that he didn't understand of believe in. He was stuck up his own ass but it was more of a result of the situation he found himself in. It was a result of what he was doing at the time and the stresses that were on him. Like his aunt was sick, his grades were falling, friends were all pissed with him. He wasn't managing well with anything.
So here's a little different take on selfishness as a virtue or to use another word hedonism which I can believe can be a great morale and life philosophy and I'll sum it up in a paragraph feel free to disagree " as a hedonist if my family is unhappy I'm not having as a good as a life as I could do I would work on helping my family, seeing a person drown would make me sad so I help them, drinking too much or doing anything excessively will also lead to unhappiness so fuck that" I'd be more happy sacrificing my life for a family member than living with their loss so in a way doesn't that make my sacrifice a hedonistic act. lol I could talk about this all day
It kinda sounds more like altruism than hedonism Also Eudaimonia wich is a state of flourishing and happiness achieved by doing the right thing wich also counts kindness and selflessness
Scott, I have to say your channel is one that I genuinely get excited about. The vids are always clearly put together with so much effort + the abundance of personality you bring to each topic🤌. Haven't finished watching, but know its already a great one😄!🙌🙌🙌
@Crafting Gaming In a nutshell, yes. She made a great fictional universe and is an awful bigot... I admire her work but I think she's a disgusting person.
I'm an introvert so it's not terribly hard for me to understand. It's the rejection of altruism and only caring about yourself that gets me. I'm a Christian who worships a God who gave up his divinity and died a horrible death on a cross for the salvation of mankind, the ultimate act of altruism, so I think this mindset is inherently evil. It's also inconsistent. It says that altruism is bad and the purpose of life is to pursue your own rational self interest as long as you don't infringe on other people's right to do the same. But why wouldn't you infringe on other people's right to do that to benefit yourself except for altruistic reasons? That doesn't track.
I feel like there’s a fine balance between selflessness and selfishness ever present in Spider-Man. As a kid, a teenage boy, he’s bound to act selfish because he’s still developing as a person and figuring himself out. But as a superhero he’s expected to put everything on the line to help the public, and to be a good person his impulse is that he should be selfless and help everyone. But the way he pushes everyone away and tries to do everything on his own, it’s both out of selfishness and selflessness. He believes he should be able to take care of everyone with the powers that he has and he doesn’t want to burden anyone else with all his problems.
This is an amazing video and I think it gives some interesting context to the behind the scenes of what was going on with the character at the time, however I like this as a period of growth and change for Peter. I really like that in modern comics they commented on this showing that even after having had his arc in Amazing Fantasy #15 he still had room to improve and change. Spider-Man is constantly in a war with himself having to do the right thing despite the great personal cost and it makes sense why early in his career he'd give in to wanting to be selfish rather than selfless. I know the title is clickbait-y and "Why Spider-Man is a flawed human character" isn't going to bring in the views.
Now- Listen here, Scott! I’ve read all of the ditko comics first hand and none of these politics are not really all that there, at least to the degree your putting it on. You seem to be doing exactly what Steve FEARED people would do- judging who the person is rather than the amazing comics he made. With Stan lee
So, watched the hand video after watching this one. And I guess this is the video you promised in that one two years ago, huh? Good job keeping your promises, Scott! Love to see a creative actually finishing a project! I feel like this is coming across as sarcastic, but I am actually really proud of you for finishing something after sitting with it for a long time. That's a hard thing to do, and you did it! Amazing! You should be super proud of yourself. Go Scott!
Hearing you talk in so much depth about these really interesting topics and going into detail about the context surrounding the comics and their creators is really one of my favourite things!!! You always keep me so interested in what you’re saying so I love these longer videos!
I applaud this video for likely encouraging people to read and investigate more of Ditko's philosophy and post-Marvel career. But a lot of it is reaching and misleading. Yes, Ditko's personal philosophy is a brand of objectivism, which ultimately largely goes back to Ayn Rand. However, his version of it is *very* different from Rand's original vision and the ideas that are prominent with modern day conservatives and libertarians. No one else in the world actually shares Ditko's very particular set of ideals, which is what made him particularly unique and strange. You've projected some of Rand's views onto him that he didn't actually share. He also wasn't really aggressively pro-police, as suggested in the video. His foundational belief for his vigilantes is a never ending quest for a black and white truth and justice. Which he acknowledges in writings and stories is not always adhered to by law enforcement. That same ideal is also why a huge portion of his characters are journalists by day. Including Spider-Man, the Question, the Creeper, Mr. A, so on. Jameson is not a symbol suggesting journalism is corrupt or bad, as some conservative opinions argue today, but he's a villain for his lies and distortion of the truths. Anyone who betrays that mission, particularly in positions of authority, is to be condemned. While you picked up the essays book, you should have also picked up some of the 24 Series to read his actual self-published comics. Which do a much better job of communicating his ideas through his actual chosen medium. While his style, design, and storytelling over time began to strip down to the bare essentials over time. Which is common for artists in comics and otherwise. Think of John Romita Jr., Walter Simonson, and even Jack Kirby. Where their styles became more distinct and less homogenous as their career went on, often alienating a portion of fans who prefer the "old Kanye" as it were. Ditko is the ultimate signifier of this, as he effectively searched for "truth" in comics art. Ultimately the conclusion is valid, that the push and pull between Stan and Steve is what made those first 38 and change issues of Spider-Man the masterpiece that they are. Just as Stan and Jack did on Fantastic Four. comicsalliance.com/steve-ditko-self-published-comics-mr-a-summary-spider-man-objectivism/
Since you did the video about Dr. Strange and Spider-Man and you ended saying you wanted to talk about Ditko’s ideology I have been waiting for this video. I love it.
I always thought the protesting about protesting was brilliant satirical absurdist humor, almost to the level of Monty Python. Very intelligent and very shrewd. And certainly one with many layers. Let's face it, human beings like to complain. The thing is, who is anyone else to decide that that person who's complaining has nothing to complain about? A lot of times they're just blowing hot air to expound agendas and inflate their own ego; but an equal number of times they are fighting for their very lives trying to eliminate some systemic oversight or authoritarian brutality. Let's face it, there are no easy answers, and even putting it in a comic book in this introductory way gives the child the possibility to actually think on it and make up their own minds in the future.
the thing I learn more and more as I get older is that people are still human at the end of the day, even people I look up to. People are fillable, that doesn't make them bad, but its something that I feel people don't keep in mind to much these days. Your hero made some mistakes, not everything they made turned to gold, sometimes they had the wrong idea, and sometimes they weren't good people they just made good art. That's fine and should be recognized as such.
So many jokes completely on point, Scott. Absolutely love it. I knew some of the Ditko story, but not to this extent and I'm so glad you covered it in an entertaining but informative way. Spidey and Strange were always my favourites and it's kinda sad to see this side of one of them men behind them. I find this kind of funny timing for me, too: I recently blitzed through 2099 back issues and found it interesting how most of that setting's characters (especially the early ones like Spidey, Ravage, Hulk) start off similar to original Spidey as a bit of a self-involved jerk who realizes it's better to be decent to people (but might still be kinda jerks who just do the right thing for most of their run).
