YOUR WARRANTY AND FTC RULING - DEALER VS INDEPENDENT with DOC HARLEY - Low Country HD Kevin Baxter 

I'm wondering if they can even tune a Stage I. I thought I saw a video where they mentioned that a Street Tuner can't go < 15:1 AFR. That might not cut it on many combinations of intakes & slip-ons.

You and me both brother

What more would you expect a HD technician to publicly say? His opinion on corporate policy is irrelevant. Did you expect him to come out and take an opposing position that would jeopardize his career? I agree that Harley should never be allowed to restrict trade to the point of flagging an entire warranty if an independent bike shop services a bike or properly installs a quality aftermarket part. The unique paradigm for Harley is how much they are modified and the varying degree of techs working on them. Anybody with manufacturer dealership experience knows that every factory rep assigned to a group of dealerships, absolutely tracks the warranty dollars spent at each dealership. Harley corporate, like any other OEM, will speak to dealership management to ‘manage’ those dealers costing more warranty dollars than their closest neighbor dealership. Sometimes that gets out of hand and could result in a particular dealership becoming more inclined to find a reason to not warranty a part. Conversely speaking, Harley should not be responsible for failed lifters if an aftermarket high-lift cam is in the bike. There should always be a middle ground and if Harley is asked to manage that without regulation, they’re always going to go with the least expensive solution. If the regulations become too overreaching, Harley will find another way to prevent anybody but their own dealer network from modifying their bikes at a reasonable cost.

Unfortunately the " Motor Company " went to shit decades ago, it's all about emptying your pockets while giving back as little as legally possible. Love the bike, hate the company....

I did the Stage 1 & 2 to my 2020 TriGlide (torque cam) and it made a world of difference!!!

No...not completely. You can mod but it comes down to the tune. It must be tuned with the Street Tuner. The issue comes in....if you choose parts that do not allow proper tuning with the limited adjustments a Street Tuner provides.

agreed

it's NOT Harley's Fault in Fact Harley took a Huge Multi Million Dollar Hit FOR YOU !! harley paid the EPA fine and installed the warranty rules to keep the EPA from Fining YOU directly

You hit it right on the money Jon Hall

That... IS an interesting thought! Reason I say interesting is because I'm in queue to have my motor blueprinted along with a 7 speed transmission upgrade. As I understand it the warranty company he deals with has some kind of understanding that Kevin is building quality along with stability in his work. No warranty company wants to put themselves out there with a shaky build or builder that can't or hasn't shown some kind of results without charging a lot more than the Harley Corp. would for warranties. There might be other aftermarket warranty companies out there that will cover your bike, but they also might ask for a list of mods and upgrades to know what they are covering ( at least that makes sense to me). Obviously the HD company warranties bikes that are EPA compliant so they can maintain their grace under rules of our wonderful Government. Does Kevin have to make his builds EPA compliant or just solid and reliable? I'd be interested to hear what he might have to say about the work he's done to broker a relationship for himself and the other builders listed on his website that discusses after dealer warranty's or builder warranty's. If independent warranties are covering all that you own for a similar price in comparison to HD, then what would keep you from buying a warranty that will allow you to go for a tune that is going to create a healthy running motor that is not EPA compliant? I decided to go for the blueprinted build after researching all the weak spots of the M-8 and the transmission to see if there were options to make it as reliable as some of the metric bikes that can go over 100,000 miles with very little work other than regular maintenance. Either the internet killed my sense of quality or maybe it doesn't exist in the production motors that Harley makes on the assembly line. Obviously they (HD) tantalize you from the time you sign papers to take into consideration all the upgrades you can make with stage 2, stage 3 and stage 4 builds. Yet the testimonies to the durability of HD production parts over parts made by companies like S&S, Jims or Baker don't seem to have equal reputations for quality and longevity. Even a person who only puts the companies projected 3000 miles a year for the investment in warranties can experience the effects of Exhaust Valve seats in the heads leaking as some builders have found when taking a young motor apart. These kind of things may be even more common in someone who rides an epa tuned bike that runs hot and lean. HD warranties their parts and replaces broken parts with the same parts that broke. I think a warranty that covers parts that are built with better tolerances and better materials is more valuable than a warranty that is covering average parts, but then the reality is, why should you worry about a solid build that is created from superior parts and expert craftsmanship? Of course the answer is, because no company is perfect, and at today's prices a build can cost as much as the original purchase of your motorcycle.

ESP is separate and will cover repairs that the factory warranty won't.

The tuner being used is EPA certified. For example, Vance and Hines fuelpak 3 in not EPA certified however the fuelpak 4 is. Keep in mind most are not at this point. Thunder Max is a ECM replacing the factory therefore it isn't covered. It is still a damn mess and the motor company will become more resilient in how they deny claims.

Just get one that's out of warranty no worries

the thundermax is not a tuner it's a whole new ECM, you would void ALL warranties

Hd red flag my 17 when my trans lost 3rd because tmax at the time is listed as non EPA/off road!

No

Doubtful. Non factory tune. But I’m sure you’re after an official reply and not my take on it.

. I have heard of people doing that by loading the SE Torque cam tune or HP tune and the bike ran like shit. I don't think the SE Autotune Module would be much help with that either.

Look at the DK Customs High flow air box with the Transformer that is the ultimate answer for any stage in my opinion. You absolutely have to get the engine gases out of the intake and the transformer is the best option (the only option) that I know of

It’s not just about the tune. If you did something to damage any part that’s under warranty, it’s not covered. Ex: custom paint and guess what? Your paint is no longer covered. Install aftermarket pipes that damage the head. Damaged head is not covered. Pretty simple.

More text less understanding

Tect

Really? People are going to be upset that Harley got busted for ripping off customers? That's what happened. There certainly are plenty of matters the government needs to keep out of...but the notion they can't do anything right is silly. In this case the feds were 100% right.

@@FernandoChaves Harley got busted for going out of EPA regs selling non Compliant EPA parts such as the old non EPA compliant Screamin Eagle Tuners and mufflers and were heavily fined and regulated. The parts were were redesigned to become compliant which aren't necessarily the best for the consumers needs. They then went a bit overboard on what violated warranties. Seems like there is now somewhat of a fair balance. You put an aftermarket part on your bike and that part isn't covered. That's fair. If the aftermarket part shows a direct correlation in causing a failure of a Harley part and the warranty for the other part is denied is also fair. Where this new ruling comes in is is your aftermarket part has no bearing on your failed item, Harley must make the warrantied claim. That is FAIR. unfortunately some were getting denied claims wherein an aftermarket part had nothing to do with the problem at hand. That was overboard on Harleys part which this ruling has corrected.