Zach's Insane Takes on Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes | Guilty Pleasures Ep. 139 

If you think Katniss was bright eyed, bushy, tailed, or optimistic it’s 100,000% time to re-read the books

District 12 canonically is Appalachian country and Suzanne Collins said that katniss should’ve had that accent!

The absolute worst take of this movie is calling Lucy Gray a manic pixie dream girl. The entire point of the movie is that she isn't while snow is trying to make her one. She is just a girl trying to survive and doing whatever it takes. We see her through the eyes of snow, not for who she actually is. Tbh, some of these takes were high key disappointing.

I know y’all probably aren’t gonna see this, but I had to pop in just to say that Lucy Gray had an accent because District 12 is in Appalachia, which is also why she sings bluegrass style songs. Also why her “Southern” sounded off, because the Appalachian dialect is a bit different from a Deep South dialect. As someone from Appalachia, I really appreciated those attention to details

I need a directors cut version of this episode with Becky inserting her comments and thoughts bc I KNOW she has opinions

Zachs confusion just confirms what i thought, the movie speed runs the book and you dont get enough details. The book is SO LONG!

Coriolanus was always very self serving. Every choice he made was for himself. He was obsessed with wealth and power and he was ready to do anything it took to achieve it. I hated that the movie left out how he wormed his way into Sejanus’ ma’s heart and used his friendship for personal gain.

At the part where we’re discussing why Coriolanus sent the Jabberjay - I think the movie did stumble showing how Coriolanus TRULY resented Serjanus - in his eyes, the Plinths stole the Snow fortune (as munitions were District 13, where their WHOLE fortune was and then was moved to 2 after the bombing) he never saw him more as District or even more than a way to rise back up into the ranks. He HATED being buddy buddy with him and risking his life to save him, only for, in his eyes, to turn around and make the same mistakes again and again. They even gloss over the fact that Coriolanus essentially absolves himself of the act of killing Serjanus a bit because him saving him in the arena gave him “borrowed time”.

Kelsey hit it right on the mark. Snow is sent to District 12 with no choice, it was a punishment and he hated every minute of it. But in contrast, Sejanus chose to go to District 12 and genuinely wanted to make the world a better place. Snow had every opportunity to make the good choice, exactly like what Lucy Gray said. He just chose every to make the bad decision every time.

When Garrick said this movie haunted his dreams...I felt that. It wrecked me, and I actually felt a bit icky after it. The movie was sooooo good!

The Book Leo (RU-vidr) did an incredible video essay titled: "the new hunger games prequel is genius and here's why 🐍", where she dives into its epigraph (quotes page at the beginning of the book) and apparently Suzanne Collins quotes 3 philosophers of survivalism and then goes on to explore their 3 main classic theories of survivalism in the 3 different sections of the book. It's incredibly well-done, well researched and profound. You understand the theories when reading it even without paying mind to the epigraph for sure but there are definitely some elements and characters that symbolise the different theories that i had missed so i'm thankful to that RU-vidr for doing the research and explaining them, highly recommend

Tigris transformed herself, but then Snow barred her from the games after he determined her unsightly.

I am so surprised that Kelsey read the books and thinks he loved Lucy grey. The story wasn’t about him becoming evil, he was always evil! The inner monologue proves he hated seganous. He was always capitol. And he had every opportunity to choose to be good and kept choosing not to. Idk that was my take on it at least

Usually like this pod but the justification of snows evil with " he fell in love " like no he's so obviously not a good person or truelly in love how do you read the books and come to the conclusion he was actually in love

I did really like the movie but I do feel it would have been better as a limited series. That way they would have had more time to flesh out corio and Lucy grays relationship like they do in the book, more time to show corio's inner thoughts like they do in the book to make him being evil less of a surprise, and flesh out the last section better too.

Some important stuff you are missing for the ending. There's this piece where you are watching snow realize he hates not having the amenities of the capital. He hates the rain the dirt, he hates the disorder that the jabber Jay's represent and how nature goes against the capital. The whole time he's fighting this desire and his internal dialog in the books captures this really well. There's a piece of snow always trying to get back to his family and to the capital hence the betray of sajanis because sajanis could pull him down with him.

"RIGHT!!! so the film wasn't over" was the most savage and brilliant commentary by ms. rainie toll. You get em girl

Clearly everyone needs to rewatch Catching Fire, cuz putting this movie anywhere near that one is truly insane.

That quote about being a "performer forced to fight" was actually from an interview with Rachel Zegler when she was asked what made Lucy different from Katniss

I'd just like to point out that Lucy Gray and the rest of the Covey seem to be Appalachian, which is why they have the accents and their culture is so different from the rest of the District 12 residents. Also it's not a musical! Lol it's a movie featuring singing, which is very different.

zach is talking about the mutts! in the hunger games first book, there is discussion ab what the dog-like creatures with the human eyes are in the arena. they’re literally dead tributes & capitol enemies morphed posthumously into a “mutt” & thrown onto the current tributes. katniss recognizes the eyes of a mutt as a tribute she was in the area with toward the end of the book.

I need to see Becky's opinion on Zach's take!

I'm a fan of the books and was always upset at the fact that they left out the importance of music in the first movies. When I read the prequel it tied a lot of those ideas together but if you just watch the movies you miss that little snippet of how important music was to Katniss.

Snow didn’t perform the body modifications on Tigress

The manic pixie dream girl debate about what "type" of girl she is doesn't work because manic pixie dream girls are idealized versions of themselves based on the wants and desires of the down and out male protagonist. They are seen as larger than life, not like the other girls, being the only one who can understand the weird, quirky interests and personality of the male protagonist. They are also the antithesis to the male protagonists plainness that serves to motivate them. That's why sometimes she's alt punk ramona flowers, sometimes she's quirky feminine zoey deshanel, sometimes she's spontaneous rebel emma roberts in perks of being a wallflower. I do think that Snow loves Lucy Grey, but he loves the idealised version of her that he's created in his mind as someone who saves him from doldrum of his lonely capital existence. Someone who finally understands the pain of losing his family, represents a joy from his pre-war boyhood and relationship with his mother, someone who isnt shackled by the rules and expectations of the capital and for whom he does not have to play the role of "a Snow". (I know theres a lot of debate about whether he really loved her, I think he loved her as well as he could but his love is based on possession and not real love). And Lucy, being a performer, does play up this character in order to survive, to enchant both the audience and her one lifeline in the games. Whether she actually grows to care for Snow in return or whether that was all an act is debatable. I think she does trust and love him to some degree, but the more she learns about him she also learns that he is also putting on an act and much of his character is a facade and not to be trusted. So yes, she is in a way a manic pixie dream girl that is idealised and serves to motivate Snow, but the film and book also make it clear that there is more beyond that and part of Snow's "downfall" and eventual turn is having bought into the idealisation rather than the reality.

im screetching are you kidding me with that caeser flickerman slander

I was so confused by them aging the technology like they did. In the book they use communicators on their wrists to send gifts in, and they explain that only on special occasions do they get access to the amazing technology they actually still have. Was also not thrilled about them changing the timing of their first kiss edit to add: I do not think that he is in love with Lucy. He wants to own her and control her.

Zach's comment about part 3 being boring is something a lot of people said...THAT BEING SAID, if you said this film should just be the games like THG & CF and not the progression of war/characters/etc like in Mockingjay then you are no better than the Capitol people watching the games and clearly didn't get the point of this series.

When Caesar Flickerman is a nepo baby

This is a movie which I really enjoyed, but you have to read the book to understand this story’s intricacies.

I LOVED this movie. I haven’t read the book yet but it brought me right back into the heyday of the original franchise. Also, loved that they leaned into Appalachian culture.

lucy and snow were not in love and it's so scary that people ESPECIALLY BOOK READERS don't see that.... he wants to own and control her. even the "it's the things we love most that destroy us" is not about snow loving lucy, it's snow loving power and control more than anything.

this is lowkey so frustrating to watch LOL the movie needs the last half to show Snow's transition from Corio to president Snow!! The games are such a small part of this story and one of the main themes throughout thg is the ethics of entertainment, so valuing the movie only for the games is exactly what Suzanne is critiquing. We see Snow choose over and over to cross the line into "evil" in ways that selfishly benefit him & his future only. He is inherently selfish with a superiority complex from the START (which to be fair is more difficult to portray in the movie but is v clear in his inner monologue throughout the book). I made a whole video essay on why this is such a brilliant villain origin story bc it truly explores what made Snow into the dictator he becomes without ever redeeming him.

The casting choices were (chef’s kiss) ❤

Zach "it's NOT in the book, Becky told me!" *snippity snap snap snap*

I hope to get a tiny ounce of Becky’s perspective on this film in the next episode

Garrick and Kelsey read the book and still think Snow was genuinely in love with her???

I love the dynamic of Zach vs Kelsey, Garrick and rainie in this episode. Like a flip from Dear Evan Hansen which is one of my favourite guilty pleasure eps

I have literally been binging Hunger Games content. It's like they've been listening to my algorithm

I love what they did with Mockingjay. To this day is my most re-watch of the franchise.

I don't think he loved her, he thought he did, but he only knows possession and obsession

This is the movie that made you realize how brutal the hunger games are

WE NEED YOUR REVIEW OF WONKA!

About half way through the podcast, but in regards to Dr. Gail’s character, there’s an interesting underplay of Nature vs Nurture and I really think Dr. Gual is supposed to be Coriolanus’s Nature that’s developing him.

I don’t get why the singing was annoying. I was disappointed with how short the song scenes were after listening to the soundtrack.

jason schwartzman USED to be the drummer for phantom planet. he left to act and they actually have a diss album towards him 💀

As someone who didnt read this book, i saw the movie and was confused by some parts also and seeing them have this discussion DEFINITELY cleared up a lot of confusion for me ugh i loved this episode !

I didn't read the books so maybe I am completely wrong. But didn't it seem like the capital let Lucy Grey go as a final test for Coriolanus before he could come back to the capital. Like they knew that they would totally try to find each other again and of course are aware he bought his way to her district. Also Dr.Volumnia said when he gets back and they chat that "you have passed all the tests". Maybe I am totally off base here but I kinda got that sense.

I have come to a conclusion to not watch your episodes about the THG franchise because it always frustrates me how you guys always have the wrong takes in these movies

Talking about seeing Finnick's story. im not really a fan of seeing prequels about things already discussed a lot. So well known characters or history no, but random things mentioned in passing, sure. So I dont want to see Haymitch or any 3rd quarter quell victor games either. 1) I want to learn more about the world and there's only so much you can do with a story that's already set, 2) we already know who wins those games, and 3) its almost impossible to meet expectations of stories that have already been built up like that. I think something that would be interesting is the 25th games, the first quarter quell. The first time they make the games extra fucked up by making people vote for their own tributes. And what that could do the mentality of the districts. There are secret dealings for who gets picked in 10th games, but imagine the politics leading up to the choice. They also would have only added Victor's Village, prize money, and food for the districts after 10th games. So you are approaching one of the first games with careers that have been trained their whole lives. Maybe the careers have a 10 year streak at this point and this is the one that breaks that streak. 15 years also gives a good jump in Snow's story. He should have finished uni, be pretty established and be busy climbing the ladder, but not yet have full power. Maybe this is his first shot at real power. He may or may not have killed again, but his power play kills could come into play. He'd probably be married and having children by now, so you could see that dynamic. The games would be significantly different, but they probably still aren't what we saw in the first hunger games. Designers should be getting established, so you can also see Tigress's rise to fame and maybe the start of their relationship breakdown.

If any movie needed an intermission it was this one, i had to pee so bad it was a long movie

I usually can agree with you guys, but you’ve all completely missed the point of the book. The entire book is in snow’s perspective. He found her annoying from the get-go. He used her as a tool to fuel his ego and his standing at the capital. He didn’t truly love her at all. If you make an opinion of any of the characters, you have to remind yourself that it’s in Snow’s perspective. He is not a trustworthy character. He lies to himself. We will never truly know Lucy Gray because Snow did not know Lucy Gray.

totally agree this should have been multiple parts, lots of what was really cool and interesting about this movie was kinda rushed. I wanted to see Snows dad and how he got the hunger games going, i wanted to see more of Lucy Greys people and her story, Snow was so interesting as an old man in the origionals and he was so calculated and you can really see him making those moves and coutermoves but in this one it just didnt feel like he was convayeing it quite as well. He was just kunda being a self serving shit guy. There were parts of this I loved but it didnt have that same feeling as the first three, definately would have loved it if this was a three part and it showed more, they shoulda really milked the hunger games resurgance and done a trilogy

I love Rainie keeping Zach in check

I wish I’d been on this podcast because I feel like they all missed and misunderstood so much

I actually agree with Zack, after reading the books. Since the book was so large. You could’ve easily made this a second movie and it wouldn’t feel like how mockingjay was. You could’ve played up the Romance you could’ve played up his internal conflict. You don’t need to have the actual hunger games to be involved fully like that. It could’ve been just snow and Lucy gray and how snow fully fell from grace.

20:16 Sister google the word manic hahahaha oh my god

Honestly if you read the book it comes off more as Dr. Gaul creates Snow. He writes so much for her to read and she puts it in the games and he hates her, he does the work cause he has too but you also read how he hates the capitol ways is not able to escape before he just keeps getting more pulled into it I really wish there was more of her in the movie

What I think is so powerful about return to the HG world is i watched the first movies as a teen and now im adult. The themes have more weight as someone who could have a child now and seeing the world through adult eyea

I feel like these folks don't understand the characters or the story's narrative arc. He never loved anyone but himself and power. He was an opportunist who used Lucy, only she was too smart for him in the end. She out played him and saw through him, and that's what burns him all these years, because he's a narcissist. Katniss is his way to fix this one loss of his, or so he thinks.

Warning spoilers. I saw the movie before reading the book. I LOVED this movie so much THAT lead me to read the book! Both were great! But because his inner monologue in the book is missing from the movie, the movie viewer easily accepts that Coriolanus only became evil in the last act, but as a reader because of the inner monologue, I felt that he was ALWAYS about self-preservation in all forms including his obsession with how he is perceived. So much so that it’s to the point where he is doing and/or allowing others to help “bad things” to happen so that it benefits him. In the book there are countless examples of this and that he knowingly manipulates others to benefit himself. Whether it be to raise his social status, gain money, safety for himself, and/or winning some form of power. Due to the movie missing his inner monologue , the viewer believes he was truly sad for killing Sejanus when crying in the room. And the viewer is confused about why the last act ended in betrayal with Lucy Gray. But in the book , his internal monologue from the beginning displays that he is a sociopath. He doesn’t know how to love and his closest interpretation of love is infatuation, but moreover, his fondness for the other person is about how they benefit him in the moment. Even with other characters, he will acknowledge as “okay” but he still loathes that they don’t meet his standards. As soon as the person doesn’t benefit him, he resents them to the point of despising them; thus, he wants them gone/killed/disposed. He justifies all the wrong doings he does to others as their faul; thus, it’s the right thing as he deserves to be on top as he truly is the best person to be in highest power/position. From thinking of all the examples he wanted only to benefit himself. He imagined things Tigress would have needed to do to get the shirt ( but not stopping her because “ needed the shirt to impress” and dispute his disgust with what she would have needed to do ). He liked the praise of heroism and good character for going to his dying friend (“practically family high birth family”) but internally he found her annoying and boisterous but his self importance lead him to still sing at her funeral which gave him more honor amongst his society. His classmate being bit by snake for letting her lie and leaving her in hospital hoping his secret wouldn’t be exposed -he avoided until he realized he needed to manipulate her over again so she wouldn’t expose his secrets. All the things ( pretending, lying, cheating) to win the hunger games mentor so he could win money for school to better his standing in the capital ( I say his stand more than tigress because he felt entitled to a title and place of importance but he needed to be sure other snows were with home for good family name ). These were only some signs he was already turning to president Snow. From the book, Overall it seemed to me he was more upset with being in situation he couldn’t control that lead him to kill Bobbin than the actual act of killing Bobbin-because he truly believes people who were district were animals and beneath him. He convinced himself Lucy gray was “not district and exceptional” so that he could even allow himself to feel infatuated with her (what he calls “love”) . Also He wanted to kill the Mayor’s daughter thinking she was threat and did not feel bad at all. He tried to convince himself. He didn’t think Dr Gaul would kill Sejanus and his dad would buy him out but he knew dr Gaul would kill capital students easily ( snake girl) if the capital person was liar it traitor. He said what he did to Sejanus was really Sejanus doing it to himself and he cried more about the possibility of being caught and the poor Snow name/lineage than crying about his actions leading to killing sejanus in his break down moment. When running away he hates and grieving that the world wouldn’t get to experience him as the exceptional person he was and hates the thought of not living a comfortable and lavish life. Once Lucy gray was a threat he tried to find her WITH the gun in hand knowing he wanted to dispose of her-the last THING keeping him from rising out of the situation. Lastly the Dr at the army barrack said it was NOT a poisonous snake but and if he did feel anyway it was HIS MIND/THOUGHTS doing it. Him throwing away his mother’s compact from being ruined in River was not the moment he gave up his mothers goodness ( remember he gave up her compact as a way for Lucy gray to store poison, a murder weapon BEFORE he even went to the 12th district in the last act). When he was thinking about the love of his mother and real stop shop he said she loved music , But he thinks about how HATES Music ( it’s freedom , imagination, and interpretation he can’t control). He blames it’s his “love” for lucy gray that made him act foolishly so he would never love again but everything he did for Lucy gray was for himself not for her as he was still acting out of self preservation. He knew he couldn’t love her as soon as she sang she “lived by her charms” and when she admitted she was “bad” . He couldn’t love Lucy gray for doing that because that thought was too lowly and detestable even if she couldn’t help it ( like tigress) AND like how that other prteey duatrict girl was disgusting because father probably feed her the maid without her knowing to survive starvation. He wasn’t jealous of just Billy taupe because he loved Lucy gray, but he was jealous but that he couldn’t really own her as HIS distraction from his life in district 12 ( that is what LG became to him at that time now that she couldn’t win him college money-and he kept her a secret!). She was free do what she wanted and needed to survive and that bothered him. I also believe Lucy gray was a performer/manipulator survivor. but like corio she knew who to use , and when to lose them when they are no longer suited her.

I hope Becky comes back when she's ready, for the last two movies. Zach needs to learn what war crimes Gale commits!

I have never been so stressed out (in a good way) when watching a movie in my life

Love that y’all are talking about this movie with all its parallels that is has to the real world but STILL have not uttered a peep about the atrocities currently happening in Palestine, Congo, Sudan, and so many other places

Honestly imo there is no comparison from this movie to the original Hunger Games. BOSAS feels at most times, incredibly juvenile, the dialogue was really underwhelming and immature. It felt almost Disney channel. Tom Blythe was an amazing actor and is probably the best part of this movie but honestly I felt like that inner monologue from the book was so integral in showing that snow has always been evil and doesn’t just randomly switch it on.

I’m from Kentucky, Lucy’s accent was so hard to get on board with. Jennifer Lawrence and Josh Hutcherson are from KY also, if anyone should’ve done the accent it was them😅

This movie only works if you’ve seen/read the sequels, because it does all the legwork for understanding Snow’s character. The movie Tried to show us a man that lost all ties to humanity (the way Garrick so beautifully put it) but I don’t think they executed it very well. I don’t think they really showed us him being driven to the edge of his humanity. I only buy it because I factually *know* he is evil, but they don’t *show* us how it happened.

I'm sorry i have never seen you before and 4 minutes in I already love your vibe? BOOK CLUB? LOVE IT. PODCAST. LOVE IT. subscribed

This episode is almost unwatchable because of Zach being so wrong yet so loud. I usually love this pod but today Zach is just a man hating on shit because it’s for girls. Calling Lucy-gray a manic picky dream girl. Ugh I thought better you

I WAS WAITING FOR THIS ONE

Did they ever finish reviewing the original HG movies?

also sweetie baby Zachary, please please listen to the audiobook, you'll understand it better.

I watched the movie before i read the book, and tbh I kind of agree with zach's take 😅 In the book we never get lucy gray's pov so she is basically a manic pixie dream girl. But in the movie rachel zegler is so good and that scene of her singing while being embraced by snakes is so big and epic that it feels like the climax of the movie! But it is actually Coriolanus's story so obviously the movie has to keep telling his story

Idk what rainy is talking about, Rachel and Tom have AMAZING off screen chemistry 🫶🏼

everyone needs to stop saying snow tortured tigress or forced her into plastic surgery. thats not canon!! yall are pulling that from nothing! she was a stylist in the games she most likely chose to look that way!!

no becky 😭

Have y’all talked about season 2 of bridgerton yet?

I have an question do you think President Snow from the katniss series was dying from the poison from the snake throughout his life tell his death like a very slow acting poison

Snow saw her as his manic pixie dream girl. That trope is a female character that I guy uses to changes his view and life. So yes I agree she is but that isn’t a a flaw in her side more of a comment on snow. I do think she charmed snow just like he did… but he had all the power and he didn’t know what real love was. *my opinion*

Aww, I thought Tom and Rachel had lovely chemistry. Judging from their interviews anyway. They bounce off each other really well. As for the movie, some integral Snow/Lucy Gray scenes were cut. Partly for run time issues but also they didn't want to give the audience any ideas. Snow's "love" for Lucy Gray is toxic and they knew a lot of young people would be watching, and well, they didn't want people to get the wrong idea - not that it matters cuz people are still shipping them regardless. There is a 4 hr cut though but I doubt it would get released. One of the major producers isn't for it. Reply

I feel like Zach was being kind about this film. I did not like this movie at all... it bothered me to my core and felt like such a waste of time. HOWEVER, I am glad others enjoyed it, especially dedicated readers to the series who usually are the hardest to win over in film adaptations.

what about the movie's soundtrack tho??

In my opinion, tho it is a good movie, I think it fails a bit to portray how fckn evil Snow. And I know we got to see how Snow evolved through out the movie, but I got many comments from people that didn't read the book, that they didn't understand Snow motives and how a broken heart makes you kill hundred of children. BUT in the book we see all the monologues in his head since the first page, and we got to know, he is a bad person since day one. He even considered selling Tigris, to get more money... idk that's the only thing I think it could be better.

I also got confused about if snow actually liked Lucy grey. I believe he did. What confused me was the ending thinking did she actually lead him to the guns? The movie helped me believe Lucy was not into him. A cunning, acting queen.

This movie would be perfect if it wasn’t about Snow but just a random person

I genuinely think this movie should not have been made or should've been done very differently. It is a book that relies heavily on Snow's inner world. I watched the movie first and was, not only bored, but confused. Everyone I know said they hated it too, which I thought was an extreme opinion, but I knew that I was missing so much context, so I read the book. The book was incredible and it was so obvious that Snow is a sociopath. I understood the movie a lot more, but I unfortunately still think the movie did not communicate what the book wanted. If anything, it should be a tv show, but I don't think a book that is very much inner dialogue should be made into a movie or even a show unless you can do it really well.

Poor Things episode is needed!

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS OMG

this was frustrating to watch especially zachs takes. im a long time fan and love zach and keith and eugene but this was not it, feels like they misunderstood the characters and movies pretty significantly

I know this is shouting into the void, but the scream I screamt. Now y’all have been wrong before and it has definitely frustrated me. Especially when you say wrong things with such confidence when they are easily looked up. The fact that two of you actually read the book and still managed to not get it is disheartening. First and foremost, please stop doing horrible interpretations of other people's accents. As others have already stated, it’s Appalachian not “Southern.” Coriolanus is not a bad boy. He is not poor. He grew up in the Capitol with all its amenities. During the war, he suffered the repercussions thereof. Not to say that he did not suffer, but he did not spend all of his life hungry and wanting. Even while starving due to lack of provisions, he still lived in his family’s Capitol penthouse apartment. However, after the war, he did have to pretend to be better off than he was. While I agree that it would have been a bad choice to separate this into two movies, I do think the pacing of this movie was a bit off. I think it spent too much time in the Arena. They probably focused on that because they included Hunger Games in the title. I’m sure people would have complained if they didn’t get to see the games. Which funnily enough shows how our society mirrors that of the Capitol. That being said, I do appreciate the changes they made in the games, particularly with Reaper’s scenes. I think they should have spent more time in the aftermath of the games. Showing the nuance in Lucy Gray and Coriolanus’ relationship (which I will get to in a bit.) Snow did NOT turn Tigris into a tiger. It wasn’t torture. Body mods had become a part of Capitol society and were probably her choice. (If I’m wrong feel free to correct me, but I’d love some citations please). I would argue that Coriolanus did not change the Hunger Games because he wanted to support his family. I think the supporting of his family was secondary to his urge to be perceived in high regard. Dr. Gaul assigns them the task of updating the games. To him it’s just an assignment; he wants to do well in school in order to get into the Academy. All of Coriolanus’ choices are made based on how far they will get him in life. Because, and this is important and none of you seem to get it, Coriolanus is a NARCISSIST. He has psychopathic tendencies. The only reason he thinks about Tigris’ possible sex work is because he is afraid of how that would reflect on him. While I commend Tom Blyth for getting this role as a relatively unknown actor, I don’t think he pulled off the nuance of Coriolanus’ character, especially his narcissism. That could be due to the writing or directing though. Also, the point of the book is to show that Coriolanus’ “turning evil” is not a hard turn, it’s a slow progression. The roots were already there and Dr. Gaul very easily manipulated him to her side. The reason he “cracked” is NOT due to love lost. Kelsey says that Coriolanus wants to win the games for her [Lucy Gray] and himself. Let’s be real, he’s only trying to win for himself. He doesn’t actually care about her. He’s using her to his advantage because again, all of his choices are about how to make himself look good. Coriolanus is NOT in love with Lucy Gray. He THINKS he’s in love with her, but that’s not true. Unfortunately the movie does not do a great job of showing this because in the book we get his internal thoughts. He only ever “loves” her for what she can do for him: make him look good, validate him. He wants to control her and their image. Lucy Gray is NOT a manic pixie dream girl. Suzanne Collins actually gave her a backstory and her own emotions/thoughts/motivations. She did not make the dress she wears, it was her mother’s. Now this might just be MY interpretation, and it is much more clear in the book than the movie, but I think Lucy Gray was cunning. She was playing Coriolnaus just as much as he was using her. You don’t grow up rough, without learning how to play the game/system. That’s why it’s called Ballad of SongbirdS and SnakeS. The point is that they both have both those aspects. Gen Z is not the only generation unhappy and disillusioned with the United States. Plenty of millennials and others are as well, as we should be. The fact that you only bring up Sejanus in the last fifteen minutes is absurd. And you’ve got it all wrong. Coriolanus is not mourning Sejanus when he’s crying in the barracks. He’s freaking out because he assumes he’ll be next. Coriolanus never actually liked Sejanus; most of the time he found him to be a nuisance. Regarding the ending, of course she planted the snake under the scarf. Afterward, Coriolanus is definitely trying to shoot her in both the book and in the movie. Though the movie completely failed to bring up basically the thesis/philosophy of the book, I wish y’all had mentioned the 3 C’s: Chaos, Contract, Control. I’ll leave you with some homework: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UL1RF8tHOfM.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m8XpvzSKQt0.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5WR7PMOSHU4.html

Disappointed that you didn't mention how Coryo in his soldier era looked like Eminem

I know it’s not supposed to be a love story. But I felt on the third act when coroleneus and Lucy gray reunite they had no chemistry! So when he betrays her it’s not as heart breaking. It would have been more powerful

Fully on the side of Zach this should have been muliple movies! and I loved that Mockingjay was in 2 parts it fucking worked, all the things that happened in the "second movie" Zach is talking about should have been in a whole other mvie! you reach a part where there was just so much movie, it was still good but you have already seen the structure of a movie so it disengages people. Everything after the games and seeing snow unravel was great i wanted that to be more

Alright, alright I'll watch this movie.

I don't care what zach says. This movie is phenomenal and in my opinion the best movie of the franchise

this was the first one that had a death in the game that made me shocked even tho I knew it was going to happen.

loved this movie it was just long

Tammy and the TRex

Ohthey said that the song was written by Lucy Gray once they witnessed the execution of Arlo Chance

PLSSS TELL ME THERES A SALTBURN EPISODE COMING!!! I NEEEEED THEM TO DISCUSS THE BATHTUB SCENE 🤣😫