I REALLY LIKE the discussions players are having with this....I can't help but believe that something good will come of it. World Of Warcraft is absolutely clogged with third party apps/mods.......I escaped it by going from Retail to Classic, which has few player ''comforts.'' Then someone in Chat mentioned FF14. HehHeh.......I played WOW from 2005 until last February........I dropped the WOW subscription. If the Devs of FF14 lose their iron-fisted grip on FF14, it will go the same way as WOW.
It was bound to happen period. Escalation is always a thing, even in smaller communities (note that XIV has never been an actually small community since ARR). The increase in players mixed with the length of time that people have warped the original mods statement has lead to people showing their stupidity and forcing the result to happen sooner.
@@foomp there is no "bound to happen" going on here, this has ALWAYS been happening, there is literally not a single new piece of information listed here. bans have always been given for people confirmed to be using addons. bans have always been given for people confirmed to be using mods. just last year, someone got banned because they had their twitter link in their search info and the twitter had screenshots of their nude modded character, so square told them either take the content down or get banned. nothing at all is new here. nothing at all has, will or did change. It only seems like its going crazy now because everyones talking about it, just like everyone talked about the last 2 or 3 notices from yoshi p about addons. so in summary, nothing changed. nothing was bound to happen because anything that would have happened has already been happening.
@@PowderedNuts The bound to happen was in reference to escalation. It's never been this bad, to the point Yoshi-P has to make numerous lengthy comments on the topic. We factually do not know if they're going to be taking a harder stance on these things yet, instead of letting it slide for so long. Realistically, that's the only potential change, everything else remains the same, as you said.
@@foomp while true we factually do not know, id wager a hefty sum that they wont, simply due to the amount of users who do such things, they are a company afterall, and once the bad PR wave is over, theyll slide it under the rug as usual because many many people would potentially unsub over having addons/mods/act removed. hypothetical of course, thats my opinion on it. also i have to slightly disagree with it being the biggest escalation, this is around the 3rd or 4th time that yoshi p has came out on record to talk about addons, mods and act. and everytime its always brought with it the fear mongering and crowd of naysayers on both sides. this is, however , the first time that world first prog has been involved in it..so you may be right
To be honest, it's kinda on the streamers at this point, even yoshi years ago said as long as your not promoting, harrassing, or showing it publicly and just keep it to yourself that they still didn't want it to be used but they wouldn't enforce it unless it got out of hand, and with lots of the wow crowd coming in for this expansion they are so used to add-ons and plugins being needed to play their game that it's becoming more noticable, as well as lots of the old ffxiv streamers are starting to show them now cause they see lots of others not caring about it. Sad part is even though yoshi is heavily against anti-cheats and such, eventually people constantly breaking the tos and showing it all the time is gonna probably force his hand and then all mods will be against tos completely.
Yep....When it's time for a showdown, Yoshi will have to get off the fence. I also play Entropia Universe.... And, in that game the stakes are VERY HIGH...The money is real and the weapons, armor, properties, vehicles, and LOOT make a real-world difference. A high-end armor can cost as much as a car..... And you can buy a house with some of the loots. There ARE NO ADDONS/MODS IN ENTROPIA U. If it isn't in the Game Client, you can't have it. So, the idea that the FF Devs can't stop these addons is absurd. They just don't want to pay to modify their software.
it's not even that... right now there is crap going on with the new PVP, like auto-targetting auto-executes in PVP, seeing people through walls, highlighting all nearby enemies, MANITPULATING PACKETS TO THE SERVER TO MAKE IT THINK YOU HAVE 0 LATENCY... aka essentially speed hacking but worse that is ACTUAL HACKING AND CHEATING... for some reason and somehow people are not making ANY separation or difference between the 2 because REEEEE TOS SAYS..... there's an uproar right now because people are using actual cheats and hacks like mad in PVP, THAT is what should be the focus....
@@zeening Playing at 0 latency is not necessarily bad. If having really low ping is such a bad thing then anyone living in Central Tokyo who has a ping >5 has a GIGANTIC advantage over literally everybody else in the world via geographic location alone. So at the very least, that add-on/"hack" can't really be proven. "Oh your ping is too good therefore you get banned", well fuck anyone who has like 1 ping in that one singular ideal spot in Tokyo.
God I hope things like gshade and aesthetic mods don't get taken away. I know it might seem silly to a lot of people, but for someone like me that enjoys replaying the msq and gposing these mods greatly enhance my gameplay experience. Also it seems like Preach may not be using the chat bubble add on anymore which really saddens me because it really helped showcase all the amazing rp and performances that his awesome FC and fans put together.
Gshade is just a reshader. it does nothing to change the game mechanics or UI in any way. So I dont think thats a problem. They have Reshade for pretty much anything, not just FF.
95% of the player base already knows where the line is and where the points of contention are. As far as I know gshade doesn't really give you a gameplay advantage and I don't know why there is even a need to ask.
@@Jelloshotmod2 It actually gives you a disadvantage because it eats your frames. And it's because Yoshi P can't tell you what you can and can't use because then you can use a specific addon until Yoshi P becomes aware of it and says you can't. It's much easier to make a broad statement saying all third-party programs are against ToS, which includes aesthetic.
@@AgentRedShirt Gshade is absolutely a violation of the terms of service though. They have never banned anyone for using it, but they also haven't banned people for minor UI tweaks either. Something has clearly changed in how SE is enforcing their tos and using gshade on stream for the immediate future is just as risky as using any other plugin on stream until SE says otherwise.
I played for years and honestly didn't realize they were addons outside of ACT and gshade until Max started playing FFXIV. His quest for UI addons and all the conversation that came out of it was what introduced me to all the stuff that seems to bother SE. Which is to say: yeah, streamers using addons is a form of advertisement. It makes sense SE wants to prevent that.
Max Limit was definelty a bad hit to ffxiv. The rest of the WoW streamers I enjoyed but I really couldn't stand Max. Anyone who openly breaks ToS with a "who cares" attitude just gets on me. That should be expected from a child not adults. I am glad he is back in wow tbh. I am glad that a lot of the WoW streamers are no using addons like max. Some yea ACT but that is about it for combat based addons.
@@jarad9946 that’s true but there was a difference from UI addons that not everyone might notice (i for example has no idea chat bubbles was an add on) and turning ffxiv fights into WoW fights.
right now there is crap going on with the new PVP, like auto-targetting auto-executes in PVP, seeing people through walls, highlighting all nearby enemies, MANITPULATING PACKETS TO THE SERVER TO MAKE IT THINK YOU HAVE 0 LATENCY... aka essentially speed hacking but worse that is ACTUAL HACKING AND CHEATING... for some reason and somehow people are not making ANY separation or difference between these kinds of cheats and stuff like ACT which literally just reads the combat log and does the math faster than a human, or some of the graphical enhancements colorblind people use because REEEEE TOS SAYS..... there's an uproar right now because people are using actual cheats and hacks like mad in PVP, THAT is what should be the focus....
@@siegfriedchulainn88 idk if you can see my other comment on here but idk if its gonna start deleting if i copy paste but oh well lol, it's not even the ACT type stuff that is causing the massive issue right now there is crap going on with the new PVP, like auto-targetting auto-executes in PVP, seeing people through walls, highlighting all nearby enemies, MANITPULATING PACKETS TO THE SERVER TO MAKE IT THINK YOU HAVE 0 LATENCY... aka essentially speed hacking but worse that is ACTUAL HACKING AND CHEATING... for some reason and somehow people are not making ANY separation or difference between these kinds of cheats and stuff like ACT which literally just reads the combat log and does the math faster than a human, or some of the graphical enhancements colorblind people use because REEEEE TOS SAYS..... there's an uproar right now because people are using actual cheats and hacks like mad in PVP, THAT is what should be the focus.... but people are mad about the pvp abuse so they're mass reporting
I honestly can't blame Square at all for this. The ToS pretty much state "This is strictly forbidden. The game's code is ours and messing with the HUD or any assets breaks the rules", but the more human side just says "Ok, we're not cops, we really do not care whether you want to see your DPS or put a massive dong on your female aura, but please, *please* don't let us know. We won't be actively looking for you. Just try your best to prevent this information from reaching us or we *will* have to act upon it." and somehow people took this as "Nah, it's fine if you broadcast this to the entire world. Square's cool with it lol. Oh? They banned someone? Wow, what a backstab." No. You're supposed to not let anyone know you're using it, not even your followers. If the knowledge of the fact that you use mods ever reaches Square, they *have* to act upon it, otherwise they set a terrible precedent that can f* them up real hard. They only look the other way around because humans are flexible and understanding and they only really want to ban cheating and toxicity, but the rules *are not* flexible. They're rigid and treat every single mod as a single entity to cover Square's ass in case something they didn't foresee shows up and screws them over.
Or they could just ALLOW addons like every other MMO. OR they could add all the stuff addons do ingame, which would also be amazing and will never happen because Square doesn't care THAT much.
@@ThisisCitrus Or, they could NOT do that, because it isn't fair when we have people our here saying we're World First, using mods console players don't have access that. That isn't a win, its a cheat
Anyone remember the age old saying "This is why we can't have nice things" It applies here, I can see SE taking a more prominent stance on this because some players are too busy with showing their plugin dongs to the public... just keep that shit private, bro...
I agree with this. Also 'Square said years ago that they can take action at any time'. The warning was given years in advance, that they can, and would take action at any single point in time on anything TOS related.
SE said "we can't have community made things" and the community made them anyway and so SE said "if you keep your mouth shut then you can have those nice things" and then SE said "actually there's too many people asking so no you can't have nice things" SE controls the narrative on this one. Don't be an idiot.
That's part of why they have to occasionally get this serious. PlayStation and PC users are *permanently* connected in this game, and people using mod tools to shit on console players who they might not even KNOW are console players because of info said mods are giving them is an easy tell of "Hey Yoshi-P, I don't know what this damage meter thing he's talking about is." And honestly? Unlike Fortnite proudly displaying who's on what console, I would agree to not by default display that on player icons. That way you're discouraged from dunking on someone on console that would be exposing yourself.
As a PS3 original, I will eventually join you, when the scalpers cut prices and is laughing hard at something that's been against TOS since the beginning
This is the equivalent of driving over the speed limit just because "everyone else does it" and then speeding Infront of a police station and then being surprised you got pulled over. Streamers should have been smarter because this is really only affecting them.
This is more like your city setup a stupid law and they know it yet they still enforce it regardless. UI improvement is a must for many people right now and ACT is mainly for his viewers more than himself. It's okay if he got banned by using a cheating mod, but if it's just ACT and UI improvement? Who cares? Who is going to be butt hurt just because he cleared Ultimate first while using ACT and UI mod? Nobody.
This whole situation is like running a red light for a whole year just because you haven't gotten a single ticket yet then complaining when you finally get one.
fr man it's shameful seeing them run around with there heads off like this smh just play the damn game as is and stop cheating for those that do, shits real simple
Been playing 10 years. Not 1 mod. But I recognise that everyone shouldn’t be forced to play like I do. That said, this community refuses to police itself. It doesn’t handle the toxicity that comes from parsing. It doesn’t control or even discourage others from using the clearly bad mods. This action is truly how yoshi-p can no longer ignore what people are doing anymore.
Agreed. I don't use any add-ons and the game is great without them. I have friends who enjoy some QoL add-ons, but I also know people who have add-ons that basically play a lot of the game for them. It seems like anytime people speak out against the more unfair/cheaty add-ons, a large portion of the community gets defensive and starts clamoring about how "essential" plugins are. They're not.
That's not completely true. Many in the community that do use mods (not cheats, but stuff like Dalamud and Penumbra) constantly tell others not to harass other players and slam people that do so. Just because you don't see it happen doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And of course, when bad stuff does occur, like toxic reporters, it blows up just like what happened to that **first** streamer. Now, obviously with the other examples (like the telegraphs being shown WAY ahead of time which should absolutely be banned for) then yes they should get slammed I'm not defending them. But the community does police itself.
@@brettd2308 it's the voical minority that comes out of the woodwork, and the one usually defending mod use, but they are part of savgae riader most of the time, so its not the majority. Also, a lot of them use multiple accounts to make it look like there is a lot of them when they only represent up to 2% of the total population.
@@marks2807 People have been using mods long before the recent wow exodus, what's your point there, that the top raiders have been all replaced by wow refugees? People doing day one races and savage raids clears on the first week are mostly the same that have been doing it for the past 9 years, except now we got so many mods thanks to Dalamud Plugins that you can get almost anything you want in-game.
I have never personally used the double weave mod or anything that helps compensate for lag, but I do feel like whatever they do with that plugin should be implemented in the real game. Placing a bubble is such a pain in the ass because the server lag sucks lmao.
I agree, if they made it work properly in the vanilla game they could ban the plugin to prevent already low ping people from modifying it to be able to triple weave and basically use all ogcd without any type of forced cooldown
Yep. I literally cannot play my class well without it. They need to fix their shit so it works as intended without the need for alexander. If they ban me for using it, so be it. Can't enjoy the game without it.
@@Adalon- Same here.. I have 190 ping.. SA to NA server... I use XIV Alexander and if they ban me, then i'm done with FFXIV. Rotation feels like dogshit without Alexander.
It's not even a mod, it's a fix for a bug in their servers. Only the JP servers don't have this issue because they could care less about gaijins having issues weaving.
They’ve been very clear on their stance for a very long time. “Don’t use them, they are against the rules, but we have an honor system. If you use them, don’t use them to harass people, don’t advertise them openly, and don’t cheat. If you do cheat and harass people and they report you then GG.” The fact that people can’t just quietly use mods is so baffling to me. In my group of friends we refer to them as paissas in game, but we just use penumbra, gshade, and other mild qol addons. Regardless of how recently they talk about it, they have always allows us this grey zone to exist in, all we have to do is not be gremlins about it, yet here we are.
Exactly, they've had a gentleman's agreement with the player base to behave like adults but unfortunately some people just can't leave it at that and have to push the envelope.
@@chrisanderson7820 the cheating thing, sure that happened, but not in the worlds first (although i disagree with trigger callouts) and they didn't use it to harass others. the problem this creates is ... Yoshi specifically talked about Discord, if we pull up 1 of the points that constitutes an 3rd party tool, discord falls well under that umbrella. "clears content easier" the #1 thing that discord has is the ability to voice chat with your static (or friends) with this said, people use it for callouts, which means that you can get reminded of an mechanic happening before they happen because the fight is mostly static. it makes coordinating much easier since you can say "i'll take the NE tower, you take the SE tower" in every sense of the word, it's helping people clear faster and easier, will they start banning at some random point when they see fit for someone streaming their discord voice chat? why should that be banned, is that even wrong? no it isn't, but at the same time, having chat bubbles enhanced, or some parts of the UI show more info than the default standard gives (like having timers on the party window for all your party members, or seeing your party's CD cooldown so you can more easier coordinate an buff window) really that bad that it warrants an 10 day ban for?
Yoshi-P talked about modifications to the UI or a plugging that provides additional informations. The ACT Callouts for example, gives you the exact callout to EVERY mechanic, sometimes before you can see the cast bar. Tell me that's not cheating. 😀 Give me a break... you all accepted the ToS and this exact part is in the ToS since ARR.
@tobeh the problem is the folks using them usually push the responsibility onto the rest of the community because they feel they are above getting punished for there actions...
I personally only care about the cheating mods in pvp and pve instances like world first where competition matters. But good points for the showing it publicly I personally only use some quality of life mods (like telling me if I have an item and where in my inventory/retainer’s inventory is) and some gathering timers. I hope they can implement some of these things for us
@@cutecats532 Both Dualshock4 and DualSense controllers have touchpads that allow you to just move your cursor easily on the screen. So you can just use that to click on the chat :)
This isnt on Square or Yoshi-P its in the TOS period. Everyone making every excuse in the world for being dumb, like you said just dont show it dont talk about it they said multiple time they cant see whats on your pc after all this people still cry "sqeenix bad me mad"
EXACTLY. Thank you. I haven't myself gotten to the new raids, but they are EXTREMELY difficult, and it's seriously unfair to the people who have been working hard to learn the mechanics and succeed the right way. It's insulting. It's lazy. And no one has the right to be pissed off about this. All due respect to Zepla, but this is a bit ridiculous, considering they have asked people to stop.
Death recap is something that I definitely miss from ESO (built in to the game, not an add on). Personally, I only use Gshade and Chromatized maps. The tan base map is impossible for me to read. For me, it’s all QoL and accessibility stuff that needs to be added to the game (I also very much miss Advanced UI add on). Those aren’t cheating and very clearly improvements to base game, but yes…. Ban the hell out of all the PVP and Ultimate cheaters/hackers. If you can’t win without them, then they don’t belong. I can play and do well without my cheomatized maps…. I just will get lost a bit more often.
I'm happy not dealing with the add on mess from ESO anymore. I think the only thing I really miss is being able to customize the cooldown timer display.
ESO is a relatively good example on how to achieve almost perfect parity between console and PC. While people on PC might have some extra help with addons, there is nothing console players can not do and it doesn't even take that much more effort. Besides - and that might just be me - lesser interface makes for more immersive playing. I think it is way better to look for enemy animations then to wait for a message to pop up and tell me what to do.
@@m.walker2693 In terms of QoL, ESO is basically unplayable on console after the luxury of PC with add ons. Minimap, map pins for many arduous running grinds, inventory management, and many more.
If you are streaming, you are running a business. Breaking the ToS of your "livelihood" on the off-chance you wont get penalized is a _bad_ business decision.
This whole thing is reminds of when reaction streamers were mad they couldn’t watch entire tv show on twitch. They were in the grey areas as well until the bans came. If you’re breaking TOS then you can’t really get mad. Also discord doesn’t count because because it’s just VC which this game engine probably can’t even do. It’s not cheating it’s literally communication between people not a bot.
But discord is literally a 3rd party tool. It doesn't directly impact your FF14 files or data, but it would be pretty hard to say that voice chat isn't a measurable buff to your ability to perform in the game and keep up with mechanics. Hell, excel is a 3rd party tool used to calculate the optimal armor sets and materia melds for some classes, and to calculate average damage output. Their wording is incredibly vague, and that's something SE is going to have to address and improve
@@themanofquagga *Behavior that disrupts the game balance* Square Enix strictly prohibits the use of third-party programs or tools as these disrupt the balance of the game. Third-party programs and tools that permit automated or "absentee" play are prohibited. A Game Master (GM) may speak to players to investigate and confirm "absentee" play, and if the player continues with this behavior, contrary to the GM's instructions, they will be treated as participating in "absentee" play and subject to penalties. Accordingly, the following activities are prohibited: - Modifying, analyzing, integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data. - Creating, distributing, using, or promoting utilities that interact with the game. The important part here is "Modifying, *analyzing,* integrating, and/or reverse-engineering game software or data." ACT and other external websites analyze ACT's combat logs and map out fights, start to finish. That is a third party tool that directly analyzes and displays data that the server sends to you. Discord simply does not do this.
@@TheHazelnoot that literally says they "prohibit the use of 3rd party tools" then gives a reason why, but does not give any restrictions or qualifiers on what a 3rd party tool is, so the best thing to do is the literal definition, any tool made by a 3rd party, which Discord is
I think the best plugins are the ones to make housing decoration easy and also the fix for controller players disconnecting. Would LOVE both to be official
There's already a fix outside of add-ons that fixes that issue with controllers disconnecting. If you weren't lazy and actually respected the ToS you would have known that.
@@TheDigitalhypnosis pls share this knowledge. My friend is really frustrated with this problem. Actualy they tried to fix this i think for year with no progress. So it would be great help. Ty in advance.
@@TheDigitalhypnosis wut? There isnt an in-game fix for controllers disconnecting randomly the fact that this is a problem that hasnt been fixed is a huge issue you also persecuting people just cause they're using a plug in to make the game PLAYABLE. If square/yoshi wants to blacklist mods by all means do it but fix your game first instead of banning people and then fixing it
@@GoodLosertjo Actually he is right. There is a fix. I have done it. You have to go to device manager > select Software Devices > Right click Microsoft Device Association Root Enumerator and disable it. There's your controller fix
I think it’s a really good point to make that for all plugins 1) some are just cheating, 2) some are things you or your raid should just be doing yourselves, 3) some are just purely quality of life, and 4) some are just cosmetic. If you can’t tell the difference between those then you shouldn’t take part in the conversation.
Adding the cast bar for bosses since healers can't always target the boss would be nice. Yes I know you can use the focus target but it doesn't have the same customization as the normal target one does. I feel like that is a quality of life thing since it doesn't display additional information just changes the currently available one. But then you have to say yes everything shows in the battle log it is technically all viewable and would tell you when your teammates used cooldowns is it additional information as well or just displayed in a prettier way for you to understand the information already given to you better?
@Jay Bee nobody cares if it's "against the rules" besides the kind of people who would remind the teacher that they forgot to assign homework. no reasonable person cares if someone wants to measure their own DPS to see how they're doing and there's nothing wrong with that
@Jay Bee ACT does not provide a gameplay advantage without skill. what ACT does provide is the means for people to improve the natural way, by being able to spot their own errors.
I just wanna use my Hrothgar hat mod in peace. Although I do hope options are added in the game to assist with visual overstim, a problem I personally deal with.
Not trying to be an ass, I myself could care less about people using third party tools as long it’s not the pvp cheat ones. I do have to say it was bound to happen with the way streamers were literally telling on themselves. He(Xenos) literally put out a video pretty much criminalizing himself. You yourself heard Yoshi say he watches streamers. Some of you are just as much to blame for it. Edit: was talking about Xenos putting out the video.
Same TBH. I haven't used anything that alters FFXIV since playing ARR back at launch. I know that if I really wanted an ultimate weapon I am stubborn enough and good enough at learning mechanics that I could do it with time, I just don't care though, its not my bag.
@@TheOpeth747 Its not just PVP tho. Like ok, say you are in a race for world first. You clear it. But you have a ton of add ons that make things easier for you to do so, vs someone on PS that cant use it. is that fair? Cosmetics are one thing. But anything that affect gameplay, "I.E. telegraphing mechanics ahead of time" is in effect, a cheat.
i love how so many people say its because of dps meter... even though its clearly the smallest reason for that whole thing. oh well i dont really love it because it makes the hate against act even larger
@@Foogi9000 yeah but square loves these players and cater to their every whim I mean you can't even call out people at all in ff14 with out the risk of a ban. Like they will cry all day long about act markers etc and still not step foot in a ultimate still square cares about their feelings.
I think Yoshi is getting more serious on it now is because the first 5 clears of dragonsong where people using act callouts to help them with the fights. which honestly is kinda bad. people that need third party help to beat the fight defeats the purpose of making it a challenge.
I use the XIVLauncher for my pc, mainly because of issues that pop up around my controller, with random freezes and makes playing the game hard and irritating, there was a plugin for me to fix my controller and prevent the freezes. just using the normal launcher doesn't fix my issue, and I'm sure many other players over time has had this same issue. so I want to continue to use the plugin that fixes what was already wrong. which, I dont open say what I use ingame, at all.
If you have nothing visible to anyone, then there's no reason for you to worry about anything with that. I also use controller and know exactly what you're talking about. I've learner to adjust, but it's a valid concern.
It's because of how crappy their controller implementation is. It re-polls for controller connection every time it detects a hardware change instead of assuming your controller is still connected like every other software out there with controller support.
As long as you don't stream or let anyone in-game know about it, you should be fine. Unless they have proof (and they can't check your PC), they can't do anything
There's already a fix outside of add-ons that addresses the issue with controllers disconnecting. You're just looking for an excuse to break the rules and use add-ons because you're lazy.
@@TheDigitalhypnosis There is no fix with it because it's baked into the logic for how FFXIV detects controllers which is fundamentally broken. I play with controller on PC all the time for all kinds of games. Only FFXIV has this problem. And it's an ancient open bug that will probably never get fixed. If other people complaining years prior didn't fix it, I doubt they'll fix it any time soon. They even did a patch, but that patch makes the experience worse. Instead of just fixing how controller detection works, now they make it so that if your controller disconnects even for less than a second, you stop all input. Which means if you were dodging an aoe, you got hit. It used to be it just repeated your last input which I guess still would have worked better because at least you'd go in the direction you were already going in.
I absolutely don't buy that newer players might not know that add-ons are not allowed or that people just don't remember. Discords put pins up about this, anytime someone talks about them in-game it will be mentioned that you use them at your own risk. Even the websites that you get them from bring it up. Willful ignorance at that point.
New players dont go to discords right away. Also LOT of addon sites say "its against rules but we have never heard anyone get banned and we have tens of thousands of users!"
@@Eldridozen Depends where they come from. I came from WoW and my first question to friends was "is there addons and any that I need?". Friends said "we dont talk about those here". Fair enough to me. WoW is FULL of addons and I dont blame anyone having "xiv addons" as their first search after while.
I think they talked about third party tools and addons more recent than 2020. I know it was brought up in one of the Live Letters last year before Endwalker was released. Yeah basically if you want to use addons then don't show on stream nor have anyone hear call outs and such. Otherwise could result in a perma ban.
Definitely. It was 9 months ago. Here's the English sub version of him talking about third party tools. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e_i6mjiGerU.html
yoshida's grey line for the 3rd party tool is prolly as long as it dont tamper with any file settings he will look the other way but if alot of people/player report you for use of 3rd party tools then they will take action and 3rd party tools that does tamper the game like the raid buff/trigger and the one on reddit are clearly falls down below the RED LINE edit : also the JP streamer that got ban was on mid raid before the announcement drop while 5ch decided to be the troll again and see if SE's announcement is real and bombard the guy with report
I was in Pyros the other day and I was the only active player in an instance full of bots farming the Happy Bunny Fate. SE haven't been managing these bots for farming gold and logograms for years, despite reporting them. What do they expect!
I just want 2 things to shake out of this: 1) The scripting cheaters in Crystalline Conflict and Frontline to be held accountable and banned. 2) The bunny farming bots in Eureka Pyros to all be banned, immediately.
@@vanyel_etc8695 Nope. I guess until then everyone else suffers? Maybe I should join the people on 4chan and 5chan and help them until this crap stops.
@@vanyel_etc8695 why because you dont want the rest of the community know that the savage reading community needs addons/mods to clear hard content? and that would end the exclusivness??
@@MrAngryMonkey100 there is no exclusiveness. Firstly, there's literally nothing stopping you from joining a new team and playing savage. Secondly, what others do is not a reflection of what needs be done. In the words of the great Mr. Neutron: If your friend was named cliff would you jump off him?
I'll share a hard lesson learned about this situation from a personal perspective. When I used to work retail, we had a policy regarding no food being behind our cashwrap counter (where the register is) on the sales floor. It was considered unprofessional to be seen eating in front of customers, which is why the rule existed. No one ever followed this rule and every store that I'd visited over the years always had sodas or snacks behind there to keep them going throughout the day. This was even "allowed" by our Regional and Super Regional Managers during their monthly visits as we asked them personally. Well, after almost seven years of working that job, I was fired for "eating on the sales floor", which was the reason they officially used to get rid of me due to a difference in pay rate I had from an inter-state transfer (I was getting paid A LOT more than others in my position, which I never talked about). Till this day it's the only job I've ever been fired from, and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think about it. Ultimately, I was the one who broke the rules and there was no way to prove that it was allowed in my case, so the blame falls to me for doing something I knew was wrong in the first place. I vowed to never repeat that error in life again as I walked out without a fuss, unemployed for the first time as an adult. This is the same situation. If you know something is wrong and there are clear rules about it, don't do it even if everyone above you tells you it's ok. It's a trap and it always will be, so don't be lulled into that false sense of complacency by talk of "grey areas". You do stuff like this at your own risk. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's fair, or think it's needed in the game, or WHATEVER the reason is. They've told everyone over and over that stuff like this is not allowed. They can bring the hammer down whenever they feel like it. Just take this collective "L", hold it, and be glad it's not you.
This sounds like a terrible moral of the story you just told. I think the bigger thing you should be asking is why you got fired without first getting a warning?
@@Saint-Soren You're trying to shift the blame to OP when it's not what the story is about. What it is about is that you should always cover your ass, because you never know when someone is coming for you, be it legitimate or not. If you follow the rules to the letter, it means it's harder to fire you. Most employers, when they want to fire you, will always try to make it so that it costs them the least (only the most friendlest ones will do otherwise). By not breaking any rules, you don't give them an opportunity to go for the cheapest way, they'll have to follow the law and give you what you're due. And they might have a legitimate reason to fire you. But the law also describes what, in turn, is the legal compensation for it. It's simple : you want to terminate a contract, ok, it's your right, but you gotta pay the price.
When you're the employee, you're correct. Because you get paid to do it. But this is a game, we're paying to them not them paying us. The obvious example of devs refusing to listen to their audiences is WoW. Devs aren't perfect and rules weren't made by god. So I don't see why it can't be changed especially when it's not a secret that majority of raiders are using those mods.
Yoshi P and the team made it clear way back that they won't care if you use mods and third party tools as long as you don't: 1) Harass people over their dps, 2) do inappropriate things in public, and 3) promote and advertise it. The streamer clearly broke rule three and got too comfortable thinking they were untouchable.
@@MissionControl- Mods are technically not allowed to begin with, but the devs acknowledged that it was a niche thing and it wasn't hurting people (cheat mods are whole different thing, but we're talking about QoL mods here.) All they asked is you don't actively promote it to other players. But people overstepped their boundaries and disregard the devs' generosity.
@@MissionControl- they are not "letting" people use mod, all mod are against TOS, but SE doesn't use anti-cheat nor have access to player computer so they wont know unless the player publicly talk about it or show them on their stream. its just a dont show don't tell, like military, they are turning a blind eyes as long as the mod don't incovenience other player ( like some harassing former teammate on twitter about their DPSmeter) or publicly shit on SE but livestreaming their violation of the TOS.
@@MissionControl- well in theory and legally there is absolutely no grey area, but in practice, square can't enforce the TOS without a strong anti-cheat with kernel and ring0 access and all that stuff, maybe in the future it will be implemented. but its inlikely as people don't like these kind of system. maybe they could go the nintendo route and go against the mod creator themself.
I think they banned streamers using them because of the message it sends. “The best people raiding all use these things” They don’t want people to use them already so these people streaming all the mods and such are like a giant advert for anyone remotely interested. Good to see they’ll add some things that qol mods have but that’s a future thing.
So what you're saying is that they looked at their free advertisements and endorsements, and then banned them because they didn't advertise it and endorse it in the particular way SE wanted them to? Very counter-intuitive.
@@vanyel_etc8695 Yes, because it's clearly setting a bad precedent and not what they want their game to be known for. Stop acting dumb you know exactly what he means.
Yes, thats exactly why. Streamers are influential, soon everyone will think its "must have" to do that content. FFXIV doesnt need "little helpers". Standart UI gives all information players need and all arguments for mods are complete bullshit.. If content is beatable ok without mods, then its simply cheating.
They also told us there would be add-on support post 2.0 launch (and followed up again after 3.0 was announced). We already know how badly they backtracked on that, so I wouldn't hold my breath on the "we promise we're working on it"
Those who do not see the difference between the different types of mods are just disingenuous. I think ultimately what matters is that SE does not want to develop content with plugins in mind. Currently that is the case with WoW. If you are at the point where you balance the content with mods in mind, that is a problem.
then ... don't. they don't need to work around the mods, they're there for a reason, because SE doesn't give an good and proper UI for example, some of these should be just standard ... but they aren't. even Yoshi basically said "these should be standard" but then WHY AREN'T THEY THEN?! why is it that you need a plugin to make a number on a skill bigger? (make the UI 200% ... that makes that entire UI 200%) or why do i need a plugin for the game to show me the buff timers on the party window.
@@DarkDyllon If everyone used mods that play the game for them and trivialise content, the game will get cheap and boring quickly and people will leave.
@@truevelvett they could take an harsh stance on those mods, not too difficult to spot them, like Cactbot for example literally telling you 10 seconds before an mechanic is even suppose to happen (or if it's an random mechanic it can already tell you what version of that mechanic is gonna happen) but they decided to go the route of being lazy. they could adress the more prominent tools quite easily, you know them, i know them, the streamers know them, Yoshi also knows them but isn't speaking about it. if he specifically went "parsing, although it's not allowed by the ToS, aslong as you don't harass other people with it like we've already said we will turn a blind eye torwards, but with ACT there is also something that can be installed called Cactbot, this will tell you what version of an mechanic is coming up before it even starts, this is strictly against ToS and anyone found using this will be punished accordingly" in just this sentence he not only discouraged parsers from going around harassing others (like it is now) while also making sure that people using cactbot can and will be punished. (and it's quite easily spotted, had an cactbot user in an e11s prog at some point, he was literally calling out what element the boss was gonna use before he even started the animation for it and the 1st elemental mechanic in that fight can be either fire or lightning) instead he went "oh, there are so many tools now that we can't investigate them all, so all of them are banned now" name the prominent ones, set a base line what an mod/plugin can do to not go overboard, set clear cut rules. instead he says it's still against ToS, still an grey area though, but sets the spectrum of what is in the grey are and not so broad that nobody can see what is still in the grey area (aka what is not allowed but turned a blind eye torwards)
Gshade and Reshade should be still safe to use. Nvidia has a built in shader processor (though not as good as Gshade and Reshade) that does the same thing. So i highly doubt that Square Enix would ban shader use. Even the ingame gpose has some shaders aswell.
I really hope that the HUD changes they mention in the statement are substantial. Party buff timers, chat bubbles, bigger cooldown numbers etc. It's not like the HUD in game is unusable but so much of it could be way better.
Its honestly time to really push back on the devs over this. The UI is bad. Period. That's the whole reason XIVLauncher and Dalamud exist. Larger icons for your party buffs/debuffs, death recap, party cooldown trackers, job gages, legacy camera lock, server tick, big CD numbers, chat bubbles, ping fixes and on and on we could go. None of these are cheating and all of them exist because the devs can't be bothered.
if they expand their HUD to include 1) ACT (i know their stance on comparing pp's to party members but showing personal dps and parses compared to other players of your class would be enough for me) 2) Chat bubbles (I see no reason for them NOT being a togglable option in game already honestly) 3) more options for buffs/debuffs: icons size, timers, etc 4) better bard performance functionality 5) lallafell /pet counter I'd personally be completely fine with uninstalling ffxiv launcher. Graphical mods will always be an issue of course, but a simple graphics upscale is the only thing i personally want.
There's some plug-ins/addons I don't think are right, the pvp ones, the add ons that show cleaves for limit-cut tea. anything like that I personally don't think is good. I personally would love to be able to track team-mate cooldowns for 2 minute bursts or seeing how long buffs last in the team window. or being able to only display certain party debuffs like reprise/faint and such.
What warning? SE is not forced to make a 3 week prior announcment on when they want to enforce the rule, they can already do it as soon as you agree to the ToS. Yoshida said very clearly that it is impossible for them to check players PC and they don't even want to do this, but he also asked us, to please not talk about them, to not promote them and to not show them, as it does risk an account of getting banned. The entire community got waaay too comfy and started showing ACT amongst other tools openly on stream. I doubt SE is gonna check every streamer, but if people get reported (which sadly happened) and there is clear live evidence of someone using 3rd party tools, well, you cannot blame anoyne but yourself.
the sheer audacity that you would think that sitting on a stream using addons like that and expecting to not get caught. you are literally advertising to the world that you are breaking TOS. people have taken Yoshi P's good faith for granted for far too long.
I think what they are doing is good. Being a console player and doing savage content there’s a disadvantage for me compared to PC users. I could easily play on PC but I don’t want to. The fact that high end raiders use assisting tools gives an advantage to the player, which in turn developers need to make content harder and harder. Without any assisting tools this levels the playing field which can make the content more achievable to all and not just the few that use all these tools.
Guess they should limit the pc specs to. Me having much faster computer gives me an advantage. I also have an advantage using keyboard & mouse. Your logic is flawed.
@@lockofmetal8894 this logic is just as flawed, game is designed to be comparable experience between those different input methods, Addons are not included in the intended design of content
@@HakaishinCat not true, it has been tested the game logic is tied to framerate, people with over 140fps can actually dodge things easier and faster than someone at 60fps or 90fps because the game is so incredibly client based. Y'all over here don't really understand how much of a mess coding wise 14 really is, the whole game is one giant technical debt
6:02 in comments "But it's ultimate, how else are they suppose to clear without more resources, this is an issue that should be addressed" except for the fact, you know, the content is made clearable before release, people not clearing is their own fault or their groups. Letting addons go crazy is why WoW raids suck because the developers make them with the idea of mods telling you everything anymore so a person with no mods would be impossible.
Yes yes we all hear the claim that Ultimate is cleared by the devs before release, blah blah blah, show me the video of these developer uber gamers clearing DSR with the base UI and I'll believe it, until then it didn't happen.
@@thisismyyoutubecommentacco6302 what about them doing internally requires proof? their entire raid releases? they have had internal testing since the beginning. This isn't WoW where they need players to do everything for them
Coming from raiding in other games, I can't believe it's even questionable that automatic callouts are cheating - that's obviously a big part of the player's skillset. What, you want a plugin to do your rotation for you, too?
I mean, fuck, I did the Agalia raid I believe the second or third day of 6.1. It was *fucking brutal* and yet we still cleared because we were able to figure out the mechanics. It was the first time I was able to do an FC run of something blind and it was glorious when we learned and overcame it.
I'm good with it - no grey area. We should have everything we need in game, and things not being added because it's been added by 3rd parties puts us into the same state as wow where you need add-ons to get the full experience. This is the safest, fairest and best for the game, long term.
@@TheTuberguy1000 Whew, what a haughty response, and personal to boot. That wasn't sarcasm, though, it was a genuine assertion. It'd be the same as influencing a car's design not for the mainstream consumers of it, but for hobbyists who use it as a base for their overhauls (..except in this instance, overhauling the car was actually in violation of the contract that was signed when the car was purchased). The likes of me... lol. That's really good. Thank you for that.
So weird to me that people are in chat saying things like " Dont stream high end content only baby content in ff " or other negative things insinuating that this high end content or its community wouldnt exist or be interesting without addons, especially when the in house team playtest them and clear without fanmade addons anyways
The reason ppl use act is because once you clear all that's left is improving. Kinda hard to do that when it takes a month and a math degree to parse the battle log yourself.
I’m gonna be honest I don’t think I’ve seen anyone over-generalizing addons. I think most people understand the difference between unfair mods and fair mods
The problem is that SE doesn't take any stance officially. They are obviously not okay with certain addons and other 3p tools (even private use). They need to have actual rules instead of rules that are legitimately impossible to follow ("No 3p tools guys, we're not gonna bother elaborating and yes technically discord is a 3p tool"). Even their "prioritizations" don't clear much up.
@@yScribblezHD Ikr Yoshi P himself said in previously in live letters that "TECHNICALLY" having a calculator next to you and manually putting the numbers in (or an Excel window in the background) is considered a "3rd party tool" them being vague and silent about it, is the dumbest thing they can do. They should just put their foot down and say "this is fine, that on the other hand is against ToS" so we know what we can use and what not. Tbh I think things are just getting worse from here and I hope I'm gravely mistaken by that.
I think some of the issue is PS vs PC. I had a friend tell me the Raid community is not welcoming to PS players because they can’t get the mods they need for raiding, when I was deciding what version to get. I thought at first maybe it was the controller, but you can plug a keyboard, and mouse into the ps. He straight up told me it is mods. The cross platform nature of the game gives half the players a disadvantage if the devs allowed mods.
Essentially, the broad "No 3rd Party Tools" (yes that does include external chat tools like Discord) policy is what *lets* the team be lenient. Let me explain this way: It's like a speed limit. The game has a limit that says "No Third Party Tools", but just like a speed limit on a road, nothing actually prevents people from going faster (or using 3PTs, in this case). Most of the time, cops will give a certain leeway in that number, such that going five or even 10 mph/kph over it won't get you in trouble. But if you're blazing down a road *well* over the speed limit, and you get spotted, you're going to get pulled over. Likewise, the cops can also set up speed traps to actively monitor places they know a lot of speeding happens to catch drivers who are well over reasonable speeds. A speed limit also lets them pull over vehicles that are going "too fast for conditions" and endangering other drivers, at their own discretion. That's what's happening here. They're going to be actively watching streams for add-ons and mods that go over the reasonable leeway they've typically allowed, because they've noticed a trend of "speeders" grossly breaking the "speed limit" and want to get on top of that before it gets out-of-hand. But that doesn't mean they'll be slapping down every player or even every streamer that has visible alterations to the game, or that they'll even react to every kind of "Third Party Tool". They're exercising the *selective enforcement* that their broad definition gives them the power to use. So no, it's extremely likely that they won't ban anyone for Discord, Material UI, XIVAlexander, Chat Bubbles, or other similar 'harmless' mods and add-ons because they have the ability to choose to ignore them, while the broad definition lets the clamp down on anything that actually does let people cheat without having to set hyper-specific definitions that add-on and mod makers will try to wiggle around by technicality. TL;DR, by disallowing *everything*, it gives them the power to unofficially whitelist the stuff they don't care about people using, without losing the ability to crack down on stuff that's actually bad for the game's health.
On that same line of argument, there are police officers that are known to abuse such power. You might see that the speed limit applies disproportionally to people of color, for example. And their selective enforcement might end up on a streamer that did nothing more harmful than count his damage and increased the functionality of his HUD (In a way that they planned to implement in the future anyways.) This isn't "allowing them to be more lenient", this is only allowing them to police their terms harder. If you would just allow for leniency, you wouldn't even call attention to the issue at hand, that would be the truly lenient way of going about this issue. Your faith that they will not abuse the system is entirely yours to have, since they have shown in the past that they indeed shown restraint over this issue. It is not unjustified to have such faith. But that is all that is, they have indeed reserved the right to ban someone from using such harmless things as Discord. Hell, if you go with "rules as written" on that post, they could ban you for opening the game from the Steam client if you're really stretching brashness of the rule. (That woould be the height of stupidity, though, since they SELL THE DAMN THING THERE. But the text allows it.)
@@LucasBernardesRosa However, my trust in their judgement is not unfounded. It is based on years of this exact policy already being in effect. And that's the real point. Nothing has changed. There has been no update to the ToS, no new penalties, no new policies. They are doing the same thing now that they have been doing for as long as I've been a player. What's unfounded, in my view, is the sudden LACK of trust, when all that they've done is become more transparent with the behind-the-scenes view of the matter and punished a single offender who, based on what is known, stepped well outside the tacit lines of leniency in a very public way. Several similar "scares" have rippled through the modding community before, but it's always the same story. Someone oversteps the line, gets banned, and then people use that as a panic button example to generate outrage and distrust. This is no different, and the proof of that is that they explicitly stated that if their policy was to change, there would be a major announcement. Which means, again, nothing has changed. So.. why all the distrust?
@@NagaTales What could be more major than Yoshi P himself writting extensively about it? Do you need it in Live Letter form? And the ripples themselves, the scares, the constant poking and prodding of people being banned for inocuous thing "publicly" is exactly where the distrust is formed. We might just nit hear about the not public people (unlikely, though) but even the people they do ban turn into a big deal and they keep making a show of it. What else is that supposed to generate of not distrust and scaring people into compliance? There's also some unrelared stuff, like the removal of Kaiten, that makes me question their sanity. But that's mostly minor, I don't think that their ability to reduce button bloat is related to their ability to moderate add-on users. My issue is that they are consolidating a lot of power and leaving the enforcing of said power in such a grey area that you could both have faith they would use it wisely but also believe they would abuse said power. I'm not okay with the examples being made. The guy shouldn't have been banned for even a DAY, it was his first offense and they gave him 10. For a feature they might just shove in there in the future. Not cool.
@@LucasBernardesRosa Except Yoshi-P spoke about this, at length, *in a live letter* . You can find a subtitled video of the whole segment from nine months ago. Look it up. Just type in the YT seachbar "Yoshi-P ACT". And what have they consolidated? Nothing new has been added. The rule didn't change. They didn't grant themselves new authority. It's the same rule that's been in the ToS since, I think, the very beginning of 2.0 at least. Yoshi-P was just laying out what it looks like from their side of things. He neither added nor subtracted from what was already the policy. That's why it said at the start not to take any part out of context. The only thing they said they're doing is looking as what's used to see what's feasible and philosophically compatible to add to the UI, and that they may back-off from officially congratulating World First teams if Add-ons continue to be front and center in the races, to avoid encouraging their use. Those are the *only* changes Yoshi-P actually put in the post.
@@NagaTales And in that same live letter he pretty much says that it would be fine to use a calculator to sum damage numbers as they show up, much like ACT does. So he is publicly "almost" aproving the use of said tools, but he will ban you if you're using it to clear the hardest shit he ever threw out there. Because he wants to say its okay but ALSO don't want to say its okay. And I'm supposed to thrust that? I'm supppsed to thrust a man entirely capable of saying to a live audience of people that "he can't define a third party tool" because it could just be a highly advanced mouse so he's okay with some of it, but will ban a guy over showing a strictly not-vanilla HUD? Should I take him at his word when his actions have shown otherwise?
I don't think that there is no good reason to use plugins on stream, a wonderful example of a plugin being almost integral to the stream is Crawls recent play which would not have worked without chat bubbles. granted all this is far from black and white.
There definitely has been a rise of streamers openly using plugins since we've had this massive influx of players. It's not okay, and it should have been addressed ages ago imo. Part of being a streamer is accepting that you can't use those things in public.
I like the Bard Player for RP purposes. I can't play myself, lacking the manual dexterity especially now with my arthritis, but my character being a Bard who can lay down Aerith's Theme in Gridania is nice.
He knew the risks of using third-party tools very well. By purchasing FF14, you automatically agree to be bound by the SE regulations. You can use mods, but if you get caught while using them don't cry later that you've been banned. Dura lex Sed lex. Personally, I like quality of life mods, some of them should be in the game, but I also hate cheaters and they should be banned.
@@eviolite1930 Xenosys made a video where he yells angrily for about 15 minutes regarding this ban, so I'd say yeah, people certainly can qualify as "freaking out".
Followed by a year of not doing anything if you’re not harassing with it. With no consistency or perceived punishment until all of a sudden, yeah people will be surprised. Hell I’m surprised they’re taking out cheaters and win traders in PVP. They never seemed to give a rats ass before…not that I’m complaining about that. Just sayin’. Like Zepla said, this culture is SE’s fault too.
I wonder what kind of people these are. Mostly jealous console players? Most of the time people who talk like this play the game on console. But playing on console is a restriction in almost 'every' game. So....if they are somehow mad about this..., maybe play games on PC. :( And stop bashing on people who use the advantage of the PC. I am absolutely against cheating in pvp or raids and so on. I just talk about the things that makes the game more enjoyable for lots of people and don't hurt anyone. SE has to say 'no' in ToS, otherwise it would be very compliceted for them. But in reality the community got tolerated all over the years like it was, with the mods and plugins. It is just a big part of the community. And I really hope, that the things happening now won't kill all this, and won't kill this big part of the community.
@@lunyiea I don't think they have to say no to everything, they can easily say this set of plugins you can use, let's say Gshade and Bard Music Player and everything else is ban worthy.
@@BrodieRobertson no maybe they can't. Especially not for the bard player. They can't allow to play music with copyright in their game. What we see in the game is against the law. People play famous songs. This is what the bard player is mostly used for, and what people love about it. If they start to try to allow things, I am afraid they end up in devil's kitchen. Where to start and where to end? And lots of complicated law stuff. It's easier to say 'officially' no, but in reality let the people have their fun, as long as they don't cross the critical line and don't show all the stuff too public. I hope people calm down and don't ruin the game with their witchhunts.
@@BrodieRobertson but where to start and where to end? I got ur point. :3 But it stays easier to say officially 'no' and inofficially 'allow it'. But when people do stuff against ToS too public and tell people to use things too, that's a problem where they have to react from time to time. I would be fine with allowing stuff. Even adult stuff. (no cheating stuff!) But I think it's complicated for them because for more reasons I can imagine. 😅
I’m happy about this. There have recently been a ton of people on the FFXIV Reddit (last few months) who are literally crying because of bad players who burn content instead of enjoying the game. Much of this culture is facilitated by add-ons - not the add-ons themselves but the forcing of these add-ons then creating the unfair expectation you have to use them or else be kicked from groups or whatever. This culture creates goals that are not intended by the design team and they don’t want meta add-on goals set into the gaming culture of FFXIV. Makes perfect sense.
saying discord is a 3rd party tool does not blur the line, the entire point of him saying that was to bring up that the line is already blurry! before he said anything. and discord is a huge advantage btw in case anybody is thinking it isnt. "just use the discord strat" am I the only one who has ever heard that?
I have no idea why people are surprised that doing something against TOS will get them band. Their stance on addons has been made very clear time and time again, people using them should know the risks by now
I play exclusively on PC with no mods. I have never seen anything so satisfying. I'm glad Yoshi is bringing the hammer down. No combat mods, ever. They are just a crutch that keep people from actually playing well. Especially not parsers.
@@fufiisafufi I've never felt the FFIV to be lacking anything that makes the game hard to play. If console players can learn to do it, we can learn to do it. It kinda of stinks that PC players are trying to normalize this massively uneven playing field that console players don't have access to.
@@mayawesterly3412 Just because console players have to deal with it does not mean it is good UI. Not having the timers on buffs and debuffs in party frames natively for instance makes it a horrendous experience to heal compared to most other MMOs out there for instance. Having tiny numbers for cooldowns instead of a big clear number is terrible. The native countdown is terribly bad. The combat log is absolutely rubbish when you're trying to determine what killed you. These are just a few examples of things that can be hugely improved by really small tweaks using mods. I'm sorry for our console players, but that's not a reason for me to inflict on myself a worse gaming experience. Cactbot and shit like that I don't approve of personally, but if other people want to use it, good for them, I don't care aslong as it does not change my own experience, that is aslong as square enix does not design with those in mind, which they aren't.
@@fufiisafufi I'm surprised you are struggling with that. I main healer and I barely even notice that stuff. However, the playing field MUST remain level. Until console players have access to mods, no one should.
They don't have to warn you about anything. The rules are there in the ToS. They have been spoken on before. If you fail to read the ToS, or decide to ignore it then that is completely on oyu. Don't blame Yoshi, or the company for enforcing what has been around from the beginning. The biggest issue is that streamers, and youtubers just decide to be stupid by showing the addons on their content. I 100% believe that if there was no proof from said content then this wouldn't actually be an issue. Another problem is that the community thinks they have the right to determine what mods should be fine, and what shouldn't be. It isn't your decision to make. I don't think that everyone should be Ban for breaking a rule, but I do believe everyone should be punished according to the severity of the infraction. Using a mod that is against ToS should be a suspension. Multiple offenders should be Ban. If you are going to do something against ToS then you accept the responsibility that you could get in trouble for it. Your comment about partial blame is on Square Enix for not continuously telling the community what is against ToS is wrong. Do you require your parents to remind you everyday to not steal? Do you need the police to come to your home every week to remind you not to speed? Even more drastic, do you need the court to mail you a letter every month reminding you not to commit murder. The entire blame rests on the people using the addons in the public view taunting Square Enix. Not all streamers are bad, and not all content creators are to blame, but don't Blame Square Enix for something that is clearly the Communities fault.
My problem with most of these tools has always been that people use it as a weapon to degrade others. Granted, I also believe that hard content should be cleared with your own teamwork and skill and not with some highly efficient program tell you how to do it. The irony behind all this, almost every single one of these tools have a warning before you even download it saying it breaks TOS and they aren't responsible if you use them, so once again, all these warning are there, people just choose to ignore them.
Blame SE for making fights have enrage timers and DPS checks, if you don't have those then DPS doesn't matter. You can't design fights that require optimal DPS and provide 0 tools to check why you aren't making the DPS check.
@@BasedZiddi there's a dummy challenge for fights - if you are unable to clear dummy within given time frame it means you aren't ready for that fight, and need to improve your rotation/gear/use consumables/materias. Look up Stone, Sky, Sea :)
@@Nillami SSS is a garbage tool as you can't see how well they do under pressure. I can perfectly do my rotation on a non-moving target dummy all day. Start adding mechanics in and you start seeing a lot of players caving under pressure. It also doesn't tell you how good your dps is while also having to throw out heals. Overall, SSS is not a good indicator of whether you can do a fight or not.
@@nephjd88 You forget that every single fight is cleared in game without any addons, So your point is mute. And if you cant clear the fights without addons then obviously they are too hard for you and you need to stick to casual content. Thats just the reality.
The "gray area" has been a thing for years. Why are we surprised for someone with add ons being banned with add ons on screen? He clearly broke TOS, MOVE ON.
Watching the panic and pushing the blame on others is amazing. 🍿🤤 . Gamers request extremely hard content. Gamer gets what they request. Why request hard content if your resort to making the game easier. Game hard (options) #1 "progress content as intended" or #2 "disrespect the creator by cutting corners nullifying their hard work". At the end of the day play the game how you want just know there are consequences to bad choices. Discord is fine. What's the difference if I just call you with my phone or use discord? Nothing, no difference. I play the game with my friend and we talk via our cellphones to clear content.
Discord isn’t downloaded directly to FFXIV The stuff I think SE/Yoshi P are talking about are modifications that are directly applied to the game. Whether folks look at these as positive enhancements is irrelevant. Yoshi P “not speaking on the ToS since 2020” isn’t a good excuse either. Yoshi P’s stance and statement on the use of 3rd party tools can be looked up….at any point. Same with the ToS. Yes it sucks that the hammer is coming down…but folks downloading mods onto the game and then uploading vids of the game, showing off said mods in the game, or streaming it? The saying ‘may fortune favor the foolish’ comes to mind.
I kinda understand your point that the community feels like Yoshi-P and his team did you guys dirty but you also gotta remember that in order to receive respect, you gotta give it yourself. Multiple times across many years, Yoshi-P asked, pleaded and warned about this, it may have been scummy but he doesn't have to justify his actions when people that supposedly adore him, ignore his wishes and constantly disrespect him by using these plugins on stream and youtube videos.
People parroting the 'Yoshida says discord is not allowed' are completely taking that entire talk out of context (which is exactly why he said in the current update to not share bits of the new one out of context lol). He was using discord as an example of describing 'what can be described as a 3rd party tool'? Hell, literally the next sentence he says that he could be talking to a friend on a cell phone while playing XIV and someone could complain about the phone being a 3rd person tool. Later, he even mentions MMO MICE and CALCULATORS and MICROSOFT EXCEL. He wasn't saying 'discord is a 3rd party tool, don't use it', he was talking about how different people use different tools/applications/whatever in different ways with different intents, and how grey/muddied the entire situation is. Full translations of that whole 2020 conversation are easily available online still.
Hell, it reinforces his point they can't police literally every form of third party tool. He can't stop you from using Discord, he can't go to your house and stop you from using a physical calculator, he can't stop you from your stream chat back-seating you. But he CAN stop you from using something that is literal cheating from WITHIN the game and you expose your stupid ass using it. Also, hey RU-vid bot: I'm not calling the one I'm replying to stupid. It's just shifting perspective. Chill, bot.
I see so many people say that all mods are cheating, they all provide some advantages. But the advantage I get from plugins like EasyEyes is being able to play the game! Because of a vestibular disorder, I could NOT do the third nier raid. So I missed a weekly token. And I was one of those cheesers who took off gear for alliance roulette so I didn't get nier. The advantage I get from that Plugin in is being able to play the game while disabled! It's amazing all the content I can now do that I couldn't before I decided to use a third party add on. I don't think that it is cheating, it is making the game more accessible.
Players: "Hey Square would it be alright if we used addons?" Square: "We would prefer if you didnt but if you are just dont be an asshole or wave it in people's face." Players: "Sure, got it." *Proceeds to be assholes and wave it in people's face* Square: *Bans players* Players *Shocked Pikachu Face*
@Ray Lanfranco from what I've heard, things like auto-guard for LB, sync'ing LBs with their teammates, tracking ur opponents' CDs, positions, etc. It's not something that jump out at you unless you pay close attention. It's actually a huge pvp problem rn.
I really don't see the big deal, they're pretty explicit in what they allow and don't allow. The irony is you don't even need mods to play FF well. What is even more ridiculous is people who stream with mods getting upset they're caught
I like how they default to, "Damage tracker is just like a calculator! It helps me improve enough so I can do the endgame" because it implies people on console can't or shouldn't do endgame
@@adamsmith6285 Also DPS meters allow others to gatekeep players /shrug Yoshi Ps arguement last year for not wanting to add a dps meter are being confirmed every single day. People are gatekeeping hard if u have been parsed[even without ur consent]
Imagine having TOS and saying "Hey, we can't poke around your client-side game files to see if you are using mods but please do not use them or we'll ban you!" and then people literally go streaming with them on. You are seriously just asking for people to report you and people will because it's the internet. I thought we've been over this years ago? They still cannot tell if you use mods but they are doubling down saying that they will ban you if caught. Why are people so upset? If you are a streamer you should be well aware that if you are using mods, at some point, you will get caught. I love how human nature is. "Hey, let's try and get away with this for as long as possible." "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I GOT BANNED?! STUPID TOS!!!" Hilarious. They've stated they do not care about Gshade or those types of mods as much because they do not create the possibility of toxic behavior. ACT does, which is why it is a bigger priority. Parsers tend to rely too much on their precious numbers and bash anyone that is 'the bad color'. This uproar has already happened. Once again it is simple, do not stream with mods and no one will know. Or, do not make it apparent you are using mods so people do not report you.
I don't think Yoship was dumb. The dev team in the past willingly looked the other way for the sake of the community. The community has squandered the dev teams goodwill and now the entire community is getting fucked for it. Also just don't use death recap, act, death timers, or don't show them if you don't want to get banned, you don't NEED them. Like Sfia said you know the risk, it's against ToS it has been against ToS you don't need a warning you already knew.
The majority of the player base already know where the line is some just want to be cheeky and try to get one over on the devs. Also, I don't think that they will ever come out with a definitive list of what 3rd party software is allowed or not. Doing so will only have them play a game of wack a mole that will never end. Lastly, i hate the fact that people are disingenuously using the fact that Yoshi mentioned discord and excel as an example of where do you draw the line at 3rd party tool. Stop it.
@@MissionControl- the tos hasn't changed at all. Just because they turned a blind eye before didn't make it ok to still do it. If you get caught with it then don't whine about it. Downloading anything outside of officially licensed programs is a risk no matter how you look at it and if you want to take that risk be my guest but don't try to act like you didn't know what you were doing.
An example of Cactbot vs raid caller:. Cactbot tells you which version of Experimental Fireplume and Experimental Gloryplume it is long before the telltale animation plays
Rest in peace ribide ratJam. But in all seriousness I really appreciate videos like this because I'm really bad at figuring out why I agree or disagree with certain takes and you really put into words what the issue is. The, I believe UCOB, short video you showed was completely unacceptable cheating and takes away from the game.
that wasnt ucob, that was DRU, the brand new raid thats only been cleared a small few times so far. and already people are loading up their addons to attempt to trivialize it.
@@steveh1474 who cares if someone else is "running" their experience? A large part of the FF community is such a joke with how they suck off SE acting like all addons are cancer and make the game super toxic or something.
I dont think mods should be banned, some plugins yes but if I wanna mod my catgirl to have cute makeup I shouldn't be put into the same bin as the people who use cheats
Even Arthars was using callout and cooldown mods on stream. You can hear it in the background ("Ribide" = living dead, "Twitch Prime" = Arthars getting a spread marker. Purei Purei, and Dan Dan also call out mechanics or cooldowns of some sort.) There's easy ways to prevent the visual and audio triggers from appearing for your audience while still being able to partake in them(I know cuz I've actually set up OBS and tinkered with both specific display captures and audio channelling for ACT). I only use this shit for my own personal improvement and to level the playing field for some audiovisual shortcomings I have. If this overt display of usage and subsequent action-taking against offenders removes my accessibility options, I literally WON'T be able to Savage raid anymore(it would take me a prohibitively long time to clear a tier), let alone contemplate doing Ultimate.
At this point unless I see a specific mod called out by name as OK, anything should be seen as 'user beware'. Everyone keeps saying things like "well my reshader / gshade is OK because everyone uses it" or "my hat mod is OK because it's not NSFW like the no-pants mods downloaded on the exact same website..." or "even though my DPS meter has a build in bossmod, I don't use that part, so I'm safe..." - but that's all just guessing and inferences when SE has not made any exceptions (caveat: am told that they said something in a live letter a year ago, but have yet to find a link to it).
In law there's a principle called Ignorantia juris non excusat - 'ignorance of the law excuses not'. The burden is on the players to make sure they comply with TOS. By logging into the game, you've indicated you accepted the TOS and so SE is NOT obligated to be nice and keep reminding the players before taking action. They have been very generous all this time for not enforcing the issue that is well within their right to.
Problem is that Yoshi-P himself has said in earlier live letters for example that Discord is against ToS because it's a 3rd party tool. Do you use discord? Well guess you deserve a bann. Everyone uses discord, so might aswell perm bann the entire community. Now that we've gone past idiotic statements. Lets also remember that Yoshi-P said that addons are fine, aslong as you do not A. Speak about it. B. Do not encourage it. C. Do not be toxic with it, usually with ACT. And that if you do not do the 3 things above, they won't care. But now that ppl cried & mass reported, SE did a 180 & started banning people. They teased & tricked people. Don't tell ppl it's fine to use them & then bann them. While they're allowed to, it's a real fucking dick move.
@@lockofmetal8894 the truth is, they did not tease or trick people by their displeasure over the rule skirting. Criminals try to make excuses like that because they don’t think they’ll ever get caught until they do. Even if you educated the people to think that it would always be okay to be a thief when it is not, it doesn’t change the fact that you have made yourself a thief that could be punished if rules have to honored and enforced.
@@lockofmetal8894 Cherry-picking has no place in implementation of rules and laws. If you agree to the TOS, you agree to its entirety and submit to SE's interpretation of it. Don't agree, don't play. Morally unreasonable as banning Discord is, if it falls under the TOS as SE interprets it, they are well within their right to act if they so wish. Even knowing they are well within their rights to come down hard on any and all addons with draconian anti-cheat software and such, Yoshi-P and team took the 3-point stance you mentioned NOT because addons are suddenly fine, but because they are extremely gracious and they are appealing to players' maturity and self-control. Their live letters had undertones of almost begging players to play fair. But for years players took advantage of their soft approach and now when the team decides to clamp down, the players cry about it. This is a classic case of the 'nice guy' being walked over.
@@Tachynon But they are the ones cherry picking, not us. They say addons are fine if we followed the 3 rules. And ppl have streamed with addons for ages & SE never did anything. Having ACT, shaders, bots for farming, housing addons, buff timers etc. Hell, Wow raiders that came over, had ALL addons you could possible think of to help them in raiding. Did SE do anything then? Nope. The reason they banned was because of 5ch, nothing else. And i already agreed that they can bann, but it's still a dick move to do a 180 all of a sudden. They didn't bann because "players went to far!" They banned because as i said 5ch complained. Worse raiding addons have been used before but never banned then.
@@MissPopuri This thief argument does not work, i tried to use it as an example but it doesn't work. People were told this - Addons are against ToS. But we won't do anything aslong as you're primarily not toxic about it, which was about ACT, because some ppl harassed others for their dps. Then they also said, please don't talk about them, do not promote them. And people streamed with countless addons before, without anyone giving a shit. Nobody cared when Wow raiders used tons of raiding addons, hell so many Xeno didn't even know they existed. Did SE bann them? Nope. So why bann now all of a sudden? Because 5ch complained & because of massreporting. Thats it. They didn't all of a sudden go "players went to far! We must take a stand against this!" It's all just because of a massreport. SE handled this like dogshit.
There were warnings. He even said if you get banned it will be on you so please be responsible. So I think it is a bad take to say they changed without warnings. The problem is they warned for too long.
If Death Recap is what it sounds like - basically the "what happened to me?" tab from WoW - than there's no excuse for it not to be an available feature in game. How is it any value to keep secret the particulars of where an attempt went off the rails? I'm generally in favor of Square being hard on add-ons and having their stance, but the trade off is... make your game's UI and QoL features better, and consistent with what's widely available. For me, literally all I have or really care about is one that recolors the RPR spell effects.
The fact that an official Death Recap function hasn't ever actually been a widely asked for in general only shows how little it really matters. If anything though, now is the time for people to be asking for these things.
Terms of Service are as they are though. Regardless of whether a company enforces it, it is a contract that you agree to follow. I am new to ff14 and I have been playing PVP lately and been very suspicious of other players. I've also been asked if I have ACT and certain plugins installed. I don't. Because if I do decide to dedicate a good amount of time into this game, I am not going to risk losing access over unauthorized third party applications. However, a lot of people seem to be using the excuse that "combat log hard to read so I use third party apps". Well okay, but instead of just finding the easiest solution, perhaps voice your opinion about the issue(s) you have. If anyone gets banned for using something like ACT, they only have themselves to blame. I will point this out, you Zepla in one of your own videos praised a player asking YoshiP years back about having some feature be apart of the game and they made it happen. The problem these days is no one says anything. They just want to use the easiest shortcut to solve their problem. Everyone has a voice. And the larger ff14 content creators have a larger voice. Use it to help push a fix for the issue(s). Don't use it to make excuses.
I am a rather simple guy: Parity is rather important. It rarely is real. But rarely do people care. Once cheating or serious advantages become a thing though, that changes the whole situation. And - as sad as it is - as long as there is people goinf for abusive use, there is no way but to ban everything. And instead of picking on the devs, be angry about those individuals that used mods and stuff to play in a way that felt harmful to parts of the community. Because therein lies the real problem. The best we can hope for right now is a incredibly strict policy with bans left and right. Of course, we neeeda hope as some bandaid fix we get a better UI soon as well! Once everything has cooled down however, people can start to use addons again and likely will do so quietly. Thus, we are back at the start and everything will be fine unless people overdo it once again. So yea, in this case, harsh actions likely will see the best results for everyone in the shortest amount of time with overall the least amount of drama. Maybe a real spike of drama for a short period, but oh my - if you play FF, you mostly are in it for the long run. This kind of drama? Will be some funny topic later down the river :3
I have no problem Square completely banning addons. Square knows the danger of turning FF14 too much into WoW. Addons is one of the things that engineers the player base into being too meta-focused.
Yoshi P watched Misshapen Chair and decided that they need their own villain arc by telling raiders and pvp players to go f... themselves for cheating in ultimate and crystalline conflict. If this wouldn't have consequences for players that use addons in the "correct" way, the entire situation would be so funny, because I always wanted to see the dev team going wild.
🌸🌺People get salty when they have to answer for their shady practices, but the fact is they cannot get upset because they got banned for 3rd party tools. I agree, they knew the risk.🌺🌸
Yoshi P last year: You are using add-ons on your own risk. Also Yosho P last year: If we decide to act against add-ons, you will probably get caught. Again Yoshi P last year: please dont use them. People not even 1 year later get banned or suspended for using add-ons: surprisedPikachu
No. The rule is there for everyone to read. Square or YP is not being forced to "remind" people about rules that EVERYONE can read. Read the rules, and if you choose to break them, it's on YOU, not on Square. I use one mod. I know the risk, and if I get banned for using it, I will not complain about being banned for it. Now before someone decides to roast me about using addons, I will tell you right now that it is only graphical and a lot of others are using it to improve graphics.
His comment about discord being a 3rd party tool was more to point out that there's no end to what a person will say is a "3rd party tool/something that gives an advantage that others don't have." Hell, he even commented on people who use an MMO mouse. For them to take a hard stance on it now, while "unfair," sort of needs to happen for them to double-down/reinforce what they're trying to do. It might not be a popular take, but how many times does one need to ask someone to not use/do something before harsher measures are taken, which is exactly what's happening now. For my part, I don't really care as long as it doesn't effect my gaming experience.
I feel like it's wrong to say Square-Enix has some blame in this when you yourself had mentioned that you specifically stopped using ACT, because Yoshi said "we could ban you at any time, please stop using this." Does he have to remind people every 6 months? Why can't people take responsibility for their actions.
The idea of if there was no bad eggs the rest of them would be safe. Unfortunately people will cheat or do some things that are not as innocent in comparison to what you may think of as an add-on. This community is strong and the developers do pay attention and this will be a hard time for us all but we will make it through.
