Zwift Trainer Difficulty: Faster Climbing on Zwift? // 350W Lama Lab Test 

The best way I can express the setting is: If the same power is put out at 0% and 100% you will cover the same segment in the same time BUT the gears you use will be different. The slider is a virtual cassette IMO...

As always great video Shane and the best explanation of trainer difficulty I have seen. Much easier to understand.

Hi Shane, nice to see that you’ve made a video about something we discussed a few days ago 👍🏻👏🏻

Pretty impressive to be talking 'seemingly easily' with a heart rate of 180! Motivational stuff

Watching you hold 350 and not having any difficulty breathing reminds me of watching Beachbody instructor Shaun T talk through the insanity workouts. Excellent video and outstanding job on both of those climbs.

Great demonstration and it helps me understand. Big difference which should be worth mentioning is the influence on the cadence max and min has.

Shane you’re a bloody legend. Simo.

I did wonder too. 🤔 Thanks for the great vid Shane.

Great stuff as always! Love yer videos!

Every time it starts raining in zwift in one of your videos, I keep waiting for Von to run in with a squirt gun and start plastering you!!! ...immersion... nyuk! nyuk! nyuk!

i just started zwift trial on a volt so ill be checking out your vids thanks good content.

Loved the video ( and the setup). I normally run just a bit under 100%. Around 80% derefed thru a pragamatic approach of gears,cadance and enjoying a climb.

I may be wrong, but it still seems like the best way to get folks to understand the slider is to equate it to swapping out the bike's (or trainer's) cassette. Without the slider, you'd be forced to swap cassettes when going, for example, between Volcano Flat and Alpe du Zwift. The slider is like a virtual cassette swap. Just as in the real world, changing a cassette doesn't change the climb's gradient but it certainly changes how you approach the climb.

An interesting test would be to do the kom based on feel and cover up the power data, and see how fast you do it on each setting.

Nice video. It helped me to understand how it works. Thanks.

At first, I thought that this setting was useless, but later on I found out that it is exremely helpful. I change it a lot depending on my inteded ride effort.

Nice video, thx! I fully agree that the total energy spent is independent of the trainer difficulty setting. However, in practice there are also transient effects playing a role. With trainer difficulty set at 100%, when I hit a steep section, I do not immediately change to a lighter gear but I keep pedaling at the same cadence and consequently increasing my power output for some seconds. In the same way, after finishing a steep section, I do change to a heavier gear, but there are always some seconds where my power output drops. So for me, with trainer difficulty set at 100%, I see more variation in my power output graph than with training difficulty set at 0%. This does have a negative effect on total performance. It's the reason that "normalized power" has been invented, providing a more realistic way of representing a rider's workload (so also performance) than average power. Of course, it's my own choice to do this "delayed gear shifting", but I could imagine many others do the same.

Cool vid Shane, always wondered if there was a difference. One similar lama lab test that would be interesting would be on pedal stroke analysis using the vectors (or other pedal power meters) testing how heart rate changes with differing pedal styles but generating the same watts. So standing vs sitting vs rounded stroke vs stomping. If you get what I mean? The objective to identify pedalling efficiency. 👍🏼

Great video. That was me with the KOM 😂

Hi Shane another great video.

I use a 23 tooth straight block on my drivo and lower the trainer difficulty to about 70 percent. This is to make it similar to a 32 cassette on steep climbs. The drivo is slow to change resistance so having a tighter ratio helps it along making gradient changes and make it less drastic on the drivo. Also this increases flywheel speed in climbing ranges. The drivo is more content to hold me back and not slip on steep sections at low cadence.

Having done similar tests with 100%, 0% and 50% up the Epic KOM, the real benefit that I also see for lower % is the fact you don't run out of gears on the block. Keeps the chain straighter! Reduces the little & big combo for long periods and allows better control of cadence. Leaving at 50% feels right, but for races 20% to reduce the gear changes 👍

Just tried the same test and I much prefer 0%. Its much easier to keep steady power and cadence. I used to think this was kind of unsporting until I heard one of the In The Pens podcast guys saying they always race with 0%. Sweet.

Great work Shane - hopefully this will clear it up for some people - #hells500

Cadence changes ! you feel your legs in a different way, because your cadence increases when you slide the difficulty towards 0%. Also the range of available gears you can use on your bike decreases. So it's easier to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. If you move the slider to 100% your cadence decreases because there is more resistance from the trainer. Also the range of available gears on your bike increases in this instance. So it's harder to spin out of the available gears you have on your bike. You still need to output same wattage to achieve same speed and time goals, but what varies is the cadence at which you ride.

Have to say, as a slightly heavier guy (84.8 kg), I like 50%. For races I’ll put it slightly lower so I’m not as shocked by grade changes, basically 40%-ish.

Haha 218 it takes me like 10 minutes to get up that damn hill :-)

I agree. I think of the slider as a virtual cassette change.

It's the same time because it's the same work, however, the effort is very different, much easier to hold x watts on 1 constant resistance that to respond to changes, effort will shift with gradients and cadence/gearing will follow, that means that different muscles and energy systems will be more or less used

Nice test. Would doing it in ERG mode , via a custom workout give a more accurate timing? Not necessarily for difficulty slider, but say for working out how many watts to push to do a climb in X minutes?

Does Zwift have a chart that shows how the percentage changes affect your relative gearing? For example, if the lowest gear on your cassette is 28, does lowering from 100% to 80% make that a virtual 30 or 32, or does 0% make it a virtual 42 cog? If I was going to lower the percentage, I would want to know what my new gearing is so I can relate it to outdoor riding.

So, the 'feel' as you say is that you notice the change in grade as it appears to change on the screen? Instead of NO change in 'feel' as the grade changes? I ask as I did my first Zwift session today and wondered why I couldnt feel the transition into the climbs nor the easing as I rolled over the tops of hills. Was set to 50% as standard. Also seemed like I had too much road speed for a given gearing )e.g. I had 51kmh indicated when I was in 39 / 23 and 260W. Anyhoots, I will work it out. Next is to dump the iPad (as it wobbles with the bike) and get an Apple TV or Chrome cast??

Thanks 😊

I struggled with a sort of pulsing of difficulty feeling when on long steep climbs like Alpe du Zwift - every two or three revolutions it would spin out a little and then go back to what felt harder. I reached out to the trainer manufacturer for help and they advised backing the trainer difficulty. They told me "The Trainer Difficulty setting doesn't actually make the ride/workout harder or easier. What it actually does is change the amplitude of the resistance changes." I backed it off and hey presto, smother feeling all the way to the top. Lots of people call anything but 100% cheating, but actually, by spinning out a little with the trainer set to 100%, I was actually gaining a moments respite each time, so really, for me 100% was cheating.

I’m still pretty new to Zwift. Just wondering about KOM’s with trainer difficulty settings?? I’ve just got a new Kickr 18 (love it! Your videos made the purchase way easier) and have noticed my climb times are a bit slower. (old trainer couldn’t control resistance) Does Zwift show you information on what riders were using when achieving KOM’s? What trainer and what difficulty setting etc?? Great channel GPlama

Does a lower setting normalize to make flats a bit more "challenging" gearing-wise? Running into an issue where I can only generate good power on flats in my highest gears. The theory would say I can then drop the trainer difficulty setting and get more power in lower gears on flats and declines. Does that work out that way?

Would the trainer difficulty setting affect FTP test? I mean my Zwift difficulty setting is at max right now. I know it feels harder while riding, but while doing FTP test ERG mode is off, does it mean it will be much harder to reach your FTP goal or not?

Great💪

Can you only aero tuck on specific trainers or is it possible regardless of trainer? As long as it's the right percent grade and speed

Good vid! Yeah ‘Watts is Watts’ and Zwift bases it’s calculations on Watts (x weight). Be aware though that higher trainer resistance / higher gear at lower cadence (for same Watts) has a different physiological impact than lower resistance/lower gear. The body will fatigue quicker (Watts will drop) with higher resistance. Arguably 🙂

Great video! But an unrelated question, would you mind helping me with your video set up to get you greenscreened and displaying your zwift within the same session? Thanks.

This is where zwift could do with a lap button.

So with that slider to zero it would be like cycling on a non interactive smart trainer, like for example the Elite Turbo Muin. Is that right?

Hey Shane, enjoy the channel. Just got a Kickr 18 and CLIMB and my first ride on Zwift was fun, yet I found myself in a range of gears that I normally wouldn't expect. I was spending A LOT of time in 52/13-17 whereas I normally wouldn't be able to handle it. In theory, if I increase the difficulty slider in Zwift this would effectively put me back into a more RL range of gears, correct? I didn't touch my small chainring on my first ride in London. I also performed a spindown after 10 minutes of riding as recommended. Thanks!

So, you could almost simulate the resistance change while in "off" by going up a gear when the incline goes up, because then you need more power to maintain the cadence (getting that leg feel)

I think the rain slowed you down on the second lap. If it were dry you’d have been 10 seconds faster. LOL

Hi Shane. I am 55 years of age (5' 8" and 150lbs) and at this late stage of my life I am enjoying road cycling. I have almost 52 years of martial arts in me, a ton of wear and tear and surgeries on my knees. Regardless I dream of hitting a steady 300w and currently on 13 rides on Zwift I average only 130W. Yesterday I rode my first race 12.5 miles with 700+ climb. At start of race 37 guys shot like rockets in 6 seconds vanished from my sight. I took off with another guy who took off with me and at the end he was 5 minutes ahead of me. I finished in 39th place with 52 people behind me. My difficulty level was set to 75% from the standard 50%. In the Zwift videos I heard the higher you place the bar the more realistic the climbs will me. I cannot believe I have no legs left after so much martial art dedication and I still hope to do positively good as I always set sights on realism at my age but also prove to myself I am not average. Thank you for reading

When going downhill with the difficulty set easier the flywheel never backs off on your tire, so you don't get much of a break in the legs going down hill, in a real life scenario you're probably going to be taking your legs off the pedals sometimes especially in a draft, today I lowered the difficulty almost to zero for a race and pedaling the whole time really burnt the sugar up good for the whole 28 minutes. Setting it lower is ok for TT flat type of courses but for hilly/descents it's not the greatest. You just need to find the sweetspot for your gear ratio, I have a 9speed with a Tacx Vortex and it changes gradients too fast, so I like to keep it around 20%. Even at 50% the gradient changes aren't gradual.

question: at around 0.28 in the video, we can see a choice for routes. Is that gone now in ZWIFT ? I dont see this anymore. I only see the default and I have to use the Zwift companion app to select the other directions to see where it would lead me

Am I the only one who keeps it on 100% because I'd rather feel the changes in gradient more as its more immersive and challenging?

Shane's cadence up the hill was 79 rpm @ 100% and 86 rpm @ 0%. For me the trainer difficulty makes it easier on the knees at lower settings.

I’m still a little confused ... I get the watts need to be the same but does the higher difficulty level mean that it’s harder on your legs? I guess that’s when you work through the gears right to make it easier? do you have a general preferred setting that’s best of both worlds? ... or a preferred setting for training vs racing vs a more chilled ride?

We should get a Lama army Jersey on Zwift!

Hi Shane Out of curiosity I reduced my trainer diff from 100% to 0% and did a test ride on Watopia Hilly Route. Sure enough after hitting the first climb (which comes along quite quickly) I felt no resistance change and upped my gears and cadence to maintain watts, which I found alot easier on the legs !!!! At the top I did a U turn and came back down,...expecting to keep pedaling as the downhill should still be 0%. Instead my avatar SPED UP to over 50 kph with hardly any input from me !!! My avatar even adopted a tuck position !!! This must count as a massive advantage for anyone in a race @ 0% trainer diff......... or even users with dumb trainers and power meters. Have you experienced the same ?? Am I missing something ?? I have a Tacx Neo.........Cheers Steve

It is quite old video, but the subject is still hot. Could you provide average power and normalized power from both tries? I don't understand understand why did you need to change the cadence with difficulty=0, when you hit 350. Is there any difference in behaviour with Neo? (where the trainer bahaves as in ERG mode)

Question - Having that slider set at 0% affected the Kickr Climb, right? It didn't go up and down as much?

Training this winter, thinking about doing all my rides at 100%. Want to make sure I'm ready for the on off on off efforts

I'm using a wahoo kikr V5. I don't seem to have the option to adjust in my zwift setting. Am I missing something? Is this not an option with this trainer?

Seems like you could call it the "spin---->mash" setting.

I have found that on rides like the AHDR humpday ride I fare better in the after party on 80% trainer difficulty rather than the default of 50% because I can push harder into the resistance on the little rises. Even though the average power required is the same for both settings I think i produce power better when I need to generate torque into little power climbs rather than increase the cadence. I'm sure other people would have opposite experience.

I've noticed your RPM v.s. Speed drift apart even though you are staying in the same gear. Do any of the trainers lock the speed to rpm tighter?

Great video! What about descending? Sounds like a trainer difficulty of 0% could prevent you from spinning out, and therefore reach a wattage you couldn't normally reach in real life / at 100% difficulty.

5:09 Got eeem!

Thanks for clarifying that the setting makes no difference in game but how did the effort feel to the meat motor? How were the two runs different to you?

Ok simple question do you go faster and more wotts with erg mode off. Please 🙏 help newbie to zwift.

Hi. I have Elite XR-T smart trainer that I use with my mtb. I am new in using zwift and last week I tried to race for my first time. I noticed that I am to slow on flats and descents, even if I have very high cadence. beside that, the trainer resistance is to low. I suppose that is because of my 1x12 drivetrain which has 34 teeth front chainring and 11 teeth smallest cassette cog on rear. Am I right? Can I change that if I increase trainer difficulty level? I mean, will my speed increase on same cadence if I increase trainer difficulty level ? Thank you!

I find if the resistance is too low, like below 50%, I spin out too easy going into sprints. I prefer about 75-80%. I also will change the setting based on the race if I'm looking for a result.

"It should be a little bit easier to hold 350W through here." Yeah, lol, speak for yourself!!!

Would like to see a down hill vid , when racing the higher % is great uphill but down hill is brutal , spin fest and loose ground

Hi Shane what gearing are you using in the video? And what gearing are you using ridning on Zwift Mountions do you use the slider for trainer difficulty? Love watching your vidieos on the Channel.

Is it okay to have a really high cadence when pushing high watts? I usually get to above 100 cadence and don't get too tired when pushing over 220 watts, I find that i can old the watts for longer with higher cadences

@shanemiller quick question... I have my difficulty set at 50%. Should I set it to 100% for a more realistic ride on my Tacx flux?

So the question for me as a heavier rider with a FTP lower than 200 is; a) Do I ride at min on the slider and spin to work cardio only? or b) Have the slider on max and increase my tolerance for grinding gears at low cadences? My knees often suffer at low cadences when climbing outside. I am already running a 50/34 with 11-32. Will training the knees work or just result in injury?

Sorry if this was addressed earlier, but have you tried using Instant instead of 3 sec average for power display? I find the feedback is better for maintaining a given power during intervals which might seem counterintuitive, but the smoothing creates a lag that I end up chasing more. The refresh rate on the display seems the same, just more accurate.

I've seen some Zwift videos where the gradient changes in decimals... So instead of jumping from 1% to 2%, it will go from 1.1% to 1.2% and upward. What trainers off this level of precision? Is this an older feature? Thank you!

Interesting. What effect would the trainer slide have on a non ERG mode trainer if any? Would it for instance, calculate the riders profile and slow the virtual wheel speed if set to 100%? Asking as my 5yr old daughter is hooked using it for her monthly Race at your own pace medal. She's using a 20" wheel and pedalling like merry to achieve her 25 mile goals each month particularly when the road goes up on Zwift.

Como faz para virar o avatar assim e subir novamente ?

Hi Shane, thank you for all your video's firstly. Secondly, i want to start 'vEveresting' but in my eyes if i don't have it on 100% then i'm cheating? However i only have a 11/25 cassette with my short derailleur- so forgetting times to ascend surely vEveresting is lot easier on lower trainer difficulty than 100%? Apologies to you/ all if already answered but it's just not sticking in my dumb head for some reason. Thanks in advance :)

Shane, just getting into trainers and indoor biking. Budget at the moment forced me to start with Bkool go and an average 10 speed bicycle. On this setup although I peddle very fast and get good rpm my watts are relatively low and my bike travels and an unrealistic slower than expected speed. Other bikers pass me all day long. Any idea what I need to do to correct this ? is it just poor equipment or is there a setting somewhere I can tinker with ?

It doesn't make a difference with a huge asterisk that supposes you'll be able to turn the cranks at a reasonable cadence. This is crucial in races where you want to keep your glycogen reserves as high as possible for the final

Question: Is the "Trainer Difficulty" setting the same as the "Incline" setting in the Zwift Companion App?? Are they linked? Meaning if you change one, does it change the other? Or are they two different settings that do something different? If so, how are they different? Thanks for any responses!

Does it affect going downhill as well? My 8-speed chain doesn't work great with the 10 or 11-speed cassettes in my studio and I can't use the bottom half of the cassette, I.e. 11-16.

So if the wattage and time stayed the same, but trainer feel changed, does that mean cadence also changed?

I equate the Zwift trainer difficulty settings as 'gears'. At 100%, I'm riding bike with a 53/39 chainring and 11-25 cogs, versus a 52/36 chainrings & 11-32 cogs at 50%. Its really only noticeable on climbs (and descents)

I go 100% for races. Climbs are where the attacks generally happen and you want the trainer to give you that feedback rather than having to shift gears to put out more power. If you ride at 0% diff and don't shift on the grades the pack will fly right past you.

It's a lot easier on a lower trainer difficulty for those of us who can only manage half that power output and would otherwise run out of gears! Try the test with a CAT D rider who might have yo grind away at 50 to 60rpm. Would they end up slower yhsn the guy on a lower trainer difficulty who can maintain 85rpm? PS, as many have said you are a legend. I can maintain 350w for just about 1 minute after which there is no way I would be talking!

So I conducted a similar test today as I’m still somewhat skeptical. Been on Zwift for over two years and every single ride has been at 100% with flat Florida roads 53/39 & 11/28 gearing. The alp is a grind and best time is 69 minutes. My power would decrease as the climb progressed. Today I did it with the slider moved to about 75% to simulate the feel of an 11/32. I beat my time by 2 minutes and kept my power up almost until the end. This on the back of 25 laps of the volcano circuit the day before. So with less than fresh legs I still best my best time. I guess my hang up is if it feels easier in the legs I should be able to put more power down which increases my speed.

Hi Shane, what if you set the trainer difficulty to 0 and join a zwift race or trying to set a PR for segment. would that be easier (for longer ride duration)?

Shane, are you a world class biker? It looks so easy for you. I’m an 82 year old “athlete” and I am having difficulty even maintaining 150 watts. Am I doing something wrong or am I just that pathetic? I was still doing ultramarathons until last year so I believe I’m in pretty good condition. Any thoughts?Also, I cannot locate the slider bar for trainer difficulty. Thanks. Tom Reich.

Insightful video, as always. Next question... Does the slider affect how much incline and decline you get on the Climb? For example, if you have the slider set to 50% and you're on a 10% ascent, does the Climb think you're on a 5% ascent and only rise half the amount it should?

I notice that your cadence was high in the second lap, is it because on the easy difficulty the trainer offers less resistance and you can spin more? or it was just an easy gear? Usually I go just a bit easy then the 50% mark, I prefer it because it looks like it's a bit easy to stay on top of the gears

Power

It seemed that you had a higher average wattage at 100% than at 0% and your cadence was higher in the second run. Did you go back and look at what you average watts were for each climb?

#AskLlama what does that aero helmet blue button do?

Which level of the trainer difficultly does the percent grade match reality? For example if it were 8% on game, what “difficulty” would I have to set so that trainer is actually 8% as if I were outside?

Does the wahoo kickr core not have the trainer difficulty level slider feature.

To improve outdoor climbing on the trainer what is the best approach to take with the slider? 100%?

Hi Shane, I could be wrong but when the trainer difficulty is set to 50%, I only get 50% of the climb grade on the Kickr Bike. Is that what you are seeing? Or is this just a lag in the smoothing effect?

I always go with the following. If you have 11+ gears I set to 100%. Anything less I proportionally (roughly) decrease it. No gears I would set to zero or close to it.

Would be good to explain the reverse impact on descents and how racers use lower settings so the don’t get so much free wheel effect and can generate more watts downhill