Awesome video, thank you for the information!! I was taking a look at my components and don’t see the wiring associated with some of the other fan clutches I’ve seen for this motor. Do some t444E’s not have the capability of swapping to an electric fan clutch?
I believe the older (94 through early 97) 3 box computer T444E doesnt have the buolt in provisions in the ECM for an electric clutch.. however you can still use one.. on mine I chose to use a Dakota digital fan controller.. technically its designed for electric fans bit it just turns on a relay at a preset engine temp and turns it off at a preset temp so it can do the same with an electric clutch.. there was a spare 1/8" NPT pipe plug that goes into the coolant circuit behind the fan pulley on the engine so I installed a separate sensor that the dakota controller uses.. then i used a Horton E450 fan clutch and the upgraded 9 blade plastic fan. I installed that setup a long time ago and it still works like a champ..
@@eldoradoboyseriously thank you so so much for that information, that is seriously so helpful!!! I’ve seen people use switches to manually turn on and off an electric fan by wiring into the wires that connect to the fan clutch solenoid, but I had no idea that an electric fan can be controlled by a switch alone on a vehicle without established electrical components. So does the electrical fan then have to be connected to the alternator?
update I bought a 2003 international bus for the conversion the only thing i'm not sure on there is wiring going into the bus the three wires that come from computer split off 3 go to trans and 3 go inside the bus but cant see where they go or hook up to any help would be appreciated thanks.
Great work man, you got any school buses with the Voith gearbox before and have you ever thought of swapping the muffler with a straight pipe to make a bus louder like the car community do it?
my 1978 Superior does it so well! ill have to post a video.. this bus, the transmission died and I rpelace it with an MT643 that doesnt have the pronounced allison whine. the AT540 / AT545 are the ones with the best whistle..
they were not.. it was minus 12f and runs 15W40 diesel oil.. these engines dont have grid heaters or glowplugs.. (I do have a preheater but i wanted t osee if i could run it in super cold weather wiothout using it).. the cranking is slow because of the thicvk oil.. once it started to pop on one cyclinder i would let off to let the fuel in the other cylinders atomize.. then crank which allowed that warmer fuel to burn off quick then id let off.. its a technique that helps to warm the insides of the cylinders where there is likelt unburned fuel from the longer crank times in the beginning.. once it started to fire more and more I just stayed on it till it started.. if my batteries had been low i wouldve never been able to crank near that much.. the next day it was actually minus 25f outside.. in that case i used my diesel fired coolant pre-heater.. i ran it an hour before trying to start the bus.. the engine started just like summer ..I keep anti-gel in the fuel when its that cold so it drives fine and the inside warms up quite hot with it's 7 heaters..
did this fix your overheating issue? I am trying to decide whether to get a new split radiator and the horton clutch and fan or try and fabricate a holder for a full size radiator.
It did.. I had the radiator steamed out, my engine serial number is high enough I went to ams-oil red coolant, I installed the 9 blade plastic fan along with the Horton clutch. Rather than use the engine ECM to control it I put in a Dakota digital fan controller and also a manual switch . The engine now has big HPOP big injectors and an Orion tuner and still stays cool. It also got a tranny swap later in 2017 to a 6 speed Allison so it dropped my rpm down which also helped the cooling. Having a full rad would be the best way but this worked for me.
Much better than my electronic modulator AT545. It shifts way to fast. At full throttle I'm in 4th already before I even cross an intersection and it feels like it's slipping bad in 4th until the speed catches up. An Allison guy drove it and tells me that's normal. I even wonder if the modulator is working at all. I also hear the electronic modulator relay can be bad and it will not modulate.
my electronic modulator on my red bus was bad and ultimately ruined the 545.. it did as yours does.. shifted at minimum RPM and minimum pressure. which is why you feel a slip, the line pressure is low during shifts and slides the drums.. those modulators were notorious for going bad or the relays going bad or the ECM just not calling for the modulator.. early NavPAK were notorious for it.. my red bus had been retrofitted by WW williams with a kit that triggered the modulator at about 60% throttlew pedal regardless.. I found the broken modulator too late as my trans was damaged.. so I swapped a allison 1000 in that bus.. and this bus has a MT643 now as the 545 on this one went bad a couple years later.. front bearing spun..
@@eldoradoboy As it is right now, this bus runs so good and only has 43,000 miles on it. Set the cruise as 70 and even on slight long hills it doesn't lose not a single mph and pulls the hills just fine unlike my other busses, they'll slow down 3-5mph for these same hills. Sadly, this bus is one I'm selling, I don't need 5 busses but I do want this one fixed and running good so it lasts someone a good long time. Right now due to what I really think is bad modulation, I do about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle take offs and it seems to do a bit better but still shifting early, but don't get the slipping as bad feel to it. Once the speed is up and I know the trans isn't slipping cluthes it runs great. I hear I might need to convert it to manual modulator and might have to change or modify the throttle pedal to do that. Any suggestions?
@@eldoradoboy IF I wasn't selling it, I'd really be looking for a 2000 - MD3060 Conversion to be honest. But my newer more modern BB Vision has the Cummins, not the Cat, Flat floors without wheel wells, front and rear AC integrated into the bulk heads instead of ugly boxes hanging from the ceiling, and the big big one, 77in ceiling height instead of 74in so that's the one I'm building.
not entirely.. at low RPM yes but at higher RPM the clutch has a maximum torque where over that it will slip as its not a mechanical connection.. its still fluid drive.. this helps to protect the fan blades against over-speed at high RPM but still give good cooling at idle.. esp importabt for slow moving vehicles like school busses and refuse trucks - they often ran smaller water pump pulleys to spin the fan faster at idle and then relied on the clutch to partially slip at high RPM to keep the blade RPM down a bit.. most of the medium duty manufacturers required a fan blade change to go from a viscous clutch to an electric full-engagement horton) style clutch.. the newer balde was typically plastic and had a different blade pitch desaigned for full engine RPM..
ive never had the screws snap.. its possible though and no advices other than to drill them out if possible.. the clutch housing is aluminum and the screws are steel so you end up with metallurgy issues when a clutch is old.. the clutch I demo'd was not real old so the screws turned easy.. on older stuff i always recommend a bit of kroil or other penetrating oil to soak before trying to loosen
typically the fluid migrates when the engine is shut off.. if the engine was Hot last time you drove then the clutch fluid has an easier time of migrating to the part of the clutch for engagement..this results in when you first start the truck the fan will run hard for a minute or 2 then shuts down.. I was also told by a manufacturer that this is also done because you need some fan air for the A/C when the engine firsrt starts before the air from the rad is hot enough to fully engage the clutch. the highest A/C load is idling right after startup on a hot day.. at idle the fan will stay mostly engaged for longer than a minute or so.. the A/C stays cool this way..
Yeah this 545 never had much of a whine. This bus has a 643 in it now as the 545 died a few years ago. Now my gasser superior has a good 545 whine to it.
and if the lower 'skid plate' is gone, and the factory shrouds around the wheel wells have disappeared... then in therory, all that extra air is getting into the engine bay... and well... schooot..!! O'course, I'm talkin' 454 BBC 7.4l in a 95 Burb... great info..!
air recirculation is a Hige issue on a lot of vehicles.. hot air fro mthe radiator going under the vehicle.. blowing forward from reflection or from outside wind (while parked).. causing hot iar to get sucked right back in.. ive watched more than one A/C system shut off on high head because of it
I have a 99 t444e looking to swap a 2000 allison in it thanks for the info Im going to try getting one from a bus with the 7.3 already in it for hopefully ease of install not much on you tube about doin this transfer
definitely try and find an IC / amtran bus... IH apparently mad the allison 2000 harness and main engine harmess completely separate except for a few wires that interconnect like power / ground, neutral safety, reverse, and speed sensors.. and the J1939 data link.. I took this video way back in 17.. ivew done a lot to the bus now.. I have a 100% tuneable TCM in the mix that lets me build my own shift schedules and such.. (and a 2nd screen on the dash).. plus ive tuned the motor quite a bit.. new HPOP, injectors.. getting ready to do a different turbo.. have an Orion tiner (amazing) on it.. if you find an other T444E vehicle with 2000 series the swap is much easier..
this bus has a diesel-fired coolant heater.. the next morning was -20f, I didnt even try a cold start.. I ran the diesel fired coolant heater for awhile and the engine started like summer..
@@eldoradoboy Oh yeah that’s true, i was about to convert to an RV and i was going to put in a hydronic system with a heat exchanger so i can heat the interior from engine heat. But i could always add another pump and just have it do the same thing but in reverse, then it would start the pump at like 4 am and start heating her up
Good afternoon Christopher how are you doing? I have a short bus 1993 international with the exact same set up as you are DT 360 international with the Allisin AT 545 for around 13 years as a private party bus (LIL SHORTY) started taking her cross country to festivals/camping and was wondering seems like you know a little bit about transmissions ….. Been looking to upgrade transmission to get better mileage and less RPMs going about 10 1/2 miles to a gallon of fuel. Talked to international and Allisin of course they were no help. Many many hours/days on the Internet. I was wondering if you had any info or upgrades to the transmission if I could use the 643 Allison or maybe even the eaten by speed with the D to 360. Many thanks and stay awesome. Videos are awesome.
Hey there! Since this video was made my AT545 broke and I installed an MT643 in this bus. It won’t help much with RPM as it’s still a 1:1 final drive but did help with drive ability and MPG. If you are getting 10 MPG in a bus with a dt360 you are doing great. I can get that in this one if I keep it under 60, it will get close to 12 if I drive at 55, but driving 65 and my mileage goes way down. The 643 swap wasn’t bad to do. I had to get a new flex plate and some new flywheel bolts as well as shorten the driveshaft. My bus is air brakes so I didn’t have a parking brake on the rear of the trans. If you are hydraulic brake with that drum on the rear of the trans , that can be real difficult to find an assembly for the 643, they are out there but you have to look. The one from the 545 will not move over. The dipstick, reverse light switch neutral safety switch, yoke, modulator, shift cable (might have to mod the bracket) all can be moved from the 545 to the 643.
@@eldoradoboy lil shorty does not have air brakes she has hydraulic and also she is a short bus ... so the parking brake will be in the why of what?? isn't the brake drum on the drive shaft ? I need to go look... I really do appreciate your time sir !!!! one other thing how much does the 545 torge convert slips ? if the 643 doesn't slip I should get lot more top end and millage I guess it all depends on how much she slip . ..do you know anything about 2 speed rear ends ?????.how many rpm's r you running at I'mrunning at 2,400 rpm's.. thanks again Michael
@@MrDogo90210 the parking brake assembly is usually mouinted to the tailshaft of the transmision, the tailshaft of an MT643 is different from an AT545. corerect in your thinking the top speed is related to how much the torque converter slips.. so when i had the 545 as i would climb a hill, the RPM would stay the same and the bus would start slowing down as the converter slipped more.. with the MT643, it does better and doesnt slow down quite as much.. the MT643 locks in solid so you dont waste fuel slipping the converter.. in warm weather my engine fan doesnt turn on as much either which helps the MPG. my this bus is a 7 window shorty with 11R22.5 tires, 4.78 rear Gear ratio. at 2800 RPM it maxxes out at about 69 MPH or so.. at 2400 RPM its running about 62-63 which is where I prefer to drive it.. I dont like to run it hard.. so 55-60 is my normal cruise speed in that bus. I got my reman MT643 very cheap so it was well worth the upgrade when my AT545 broke...
Indeed it is a DTA360. I love this engine (and the bus its in). I grew up with a Scout diesel and so starts like these bring back chikdhood memories of chugging and smoke :)
@@eldoradoboy The International DT360 was manufactured from 1987 to 1993 for trucks and buses, after which the DT-466, the last mechanical fuel injection model of the DT family, was produced. I was reading somewhere, somebody can chime in, but after 1992, Prior to 1992 or so there was a DT360 170 hp and a DTA360 190 hp as I remember. Because of emission standards starting about 1992 or 91 all DT360s no matter the horsepower came with the aftercoolers and International no longer refered to them as DTA360s but simply DT360s.
yeah it is direct injection from electronically controlled injectors.. I have changed the dashboard screens a little from this video.. I run 2 tablets, one gets data from the engine ECM and the other gets data from the trans TCM.. I have this bus dialed in solid now in 2022 :)
@@jaggass yeah it will Lug in 6th gear so now that I can tune the trans with EFIlive I have 6th gear only come on if im at light throttle above 65 MPH.. I really need to re-gear the rear end to a 4.10 or a 4.30 to make 6th more useable
@@jaggass the "god mode" service max from IH (you can find it in various "unofficial" places on the internet.. it lets you change the EFRC code and HP parameters.. im running an Orion Tuner now from PowerHungry and biggewr injectors, adrenaline HPOP.. so im up around 350 HP now
@@eldoradoboy It's a 2016 Thomas Saf-T-Liner C2. I can very much say I like my C2 better than any CE I've driven for training, but it has hydraulic brakes instead of air because my bus barn is nothing but hydraulic brakes.
sometimes.. other times it would not obey the gear... it always shifted forward / reverse / neutral fine, it just had issues picking its forward gear..
Was there different version's of AT545's? I remember you saying that the one on the Bluebird was a 70mph one. Buses that used it here in the UK could only do 55mph flat out but could have been down to their rear axle ratio's. The ones here shifted into 4th at 30-35mph depending how much throttle you gave it.
its a 7 window bus, it is fairly heavy, however the engine, trans, and gauge cluster were all replaced in 2004.. it had 85k miles on the trans when i got it.. It was at about 105 or so when the trans blew.. id driven it over mountains, long trips etc.. it had 85k of stop N go school miles on it before i got it.. so the AT545 was pretty good for average lifespan.. the 643 works SO MUCH better!
that setup is old now :) its a Modified Silverleaf VMS PC on a windows tablet.. I still use it (along with my EFIlive for the transmission I swapped in after this video was made). . I would suggest Nowadays looking at Bluefire.. Blurefire isnt a diagnostic system but it is a tablet based digital dash display (that looks 10 times better than this one). it came up a couple years after I built this.. for true diagnostics you need a Nexiq or clone device and the free navistar servicemaxx J1708. im still running this fan clutch and it rocks! havent overheated it even in the mountains with the engine tuned.. i swapped the trans too to a 6 speed allison 1000 and that helped with heat as well
When you adjust the bimetalic spring counterclockwise you are loosening it. Less tension? Correct. So as it heats it will move less. Just thinking out loud. Also he said when cold the shaft should be stiff. Isnt it supposed to turn freely when cold?
