I was brought here by your political fantasy video and just wanted to say that I find your measured and intelligent tone and clear amount of effort and thought put in are quite the breath of fresh air. Hope all is well and that you stayed safe through the pandemic.
Girl, I hope you finished the series. I swear the first 2 books dont deserve anything but they are the way to let you know the characters, and the give you some clues about what can be developed after. I swear there's a world after this, the plot changes completely, and this series deserves all of the hype it has.
I think the magic point is a bit more complex. if a character gains enough magical power they can become what is an essentially walking, talking and thinking nuke. Nukes completly changed our political landscape and if they were to be held only by one side, they would make any political intrigue obsolete as the question of victory over any adversary would be just a question of how much of them we want to use. If magic in the world has similar power, it does make sense that political intrigue is a bit sidelined, but granted it can still be done well and not-so-well so I get what you are saying.
Also is no one going to talk about how fast everything moved? Like she got a job working for the king, got electrocuted, got powers, became a prisoner, lost said job, then became a princess, then a ball was hosted for her ON THE SAME DAY!
Having read the Song of Ice and Fire books: There is indeed a magic creep, but it *never* creates the tonal whiplash and narrative problems that you’re describing from the show. The TV show famously *toned down* the magical elements significantly. In doing so, it took away a lot of the atmosphere. (As well as sensible character motivations). The feel of fear and mystery that permeates magic in the books is removed. The books avoid the feeling of magic creep in the show-despite having more magical elements-because of the way that the magic is written. In the books magic is inherently dangerous and unpredictable; and even those who partake in it don’t entirely know what they are doing. Sometimes to horrible consequences, because magic always has a price. Moreover, the magical creep is very much a *creep.* The setting of ASoIAF is one in which magic is slowly beginning to re-enter the world. Use of magic is less important as an established lever of power, and happens more as a curveball that the political players must adapt to or work around. But though actual instances of magic changing the political landscape is rare; its *presence* is increasingly omnipresent. A sort of looming in the background. Whereas, in the show, the “magical” elements remaining were just there to justify spectacle and explosive set pieces; And justify using plot armor for characters whenever D&D wrote themselves into a corner. Which (obviously) didn’t match with the tone of the early part of the show AT ALL. There was no real interest *in* the magic itself by the writers, beyond providing them an excuse for giant expensive action scenes; and it *shows.*
George RR Martin is Famous for criticizing Tolkien for not coming up with a Tax plan for his kingdom. Not realizing saying that his rule was long and good is the best political outcome summation you can ask for. Why? Because a kingdoms tax plan isn't fantastical; it is work, and re-enacting that work on the page doesn't engage readers it pulls them out of the escapism. I get the problem with every Feudal system largely being Monarchical and deciding to go with a democratic system isn't the end all be all super trump card to end suffering and inequality. It's not satisfying when we can all see the problems inherit with our own democratic systems. It feels like a boondoggle or propaganda.
Modern political fantasy is bad, because it lacks dark fantasy themed characters from the public domain, such as for example Dorian Grey or John Carter. If you want to create a political fantasy series try to introduce as few political characters as possible and keep only those who keep your fantasy world growing. If you want to add Dorian Grey or John Carter you need to give them motivations to be part of your world.
I have an artist protagonist in the book im writing. The point is that he simpmy does it as a hobby. its mentiomed during downtime (and occasionally has plot relevance). Hes also a childlike spirit creature representing the concept of "remembrance". He reads storybooks throughout the story, and draws them like a child would. he keeps a diary of his travels and the people in them through drawing and writing. I plan to include art IN the book very very frequently with it being directly stated that its HIS artisitic depiction of what happened. the novel writing is what truly happened, and the art and comics in the book is HIS PERSPECTIVE of what happened (with him as a very reliable narrator in the art.)
i just read this book - i know i'm late to the game - but your assessment is so spot on. i do not like Feyre (dumb name). she is sooooo annoying - also, shallow as hell - i def noticed she can't stand Tamlin - until she finds out he is the High Lord -( again - thought that was brutally obvious (dumb Feyre) hummm - then all of a sudden hes like oh baby - wth - that said a lot about her - and her constant whining made it hard for me to finish the book!!!
The "this is satisfying for now, but then what" is just a problem with happy endings. It would play out the same with other political systems, like a democratic win (sure, the good guys were elected... but somewhere down the line corrupt psychopaths are going to lie to get elected). But it also plays out in any "happy ending." There is no happily ever after in life, the happy ending of the book is artificial, only an ending because we intentionally stop telling the story at a high point. I would argue that you find the falseness of happy endings problematic not because they are less true in a political context, but that YOU are more cynical of happy endings in a political context than other ones. If you were just as jaded about romantic arcs, for example, you would ask yourself at the end of the book "Yeah, but when's their next argument going to happen..." Anyway, interesting food for thought, because I just wrapped up a fantasy adventure, and the sequel is a political fantasy that imagines the political and social ramifications of discovering another world and new magical forces.
Currently writing a Political Fantasy podcast ( Fate of Korr) set in a 20th century world, which oddly gets around some of this. If I say how it would spoil the fun of listening ( we launch in November.) My season two, is the final season, which reduces magic ramp up, cause there isn't 7 seasons of fighting one new big bad after another, and I hope to leave the political system in the air. But for the main character his story is closed , and he takes, his personal next step on his own pursuing the want he wanted before the world was in trouble. Clicked in your video cause I am working to check myself to make sure these pitfalls are not present in this work. So thank you for expressing your criticism of the genre. So thank you.
I disagree with you on Ice and Fire. I think magic plays a huge dynamic because it raises important moral questions about whether the ends justify the means. Besides, A Song of Ice and Fantasy isn't categorized as a political fantasy; it's categorized as an epic high fantasy with heavy political themes. It was never truly categorized as political fantasy. His story is focused more on personal conflict and character growth along with hard themes such as the horrors of war, (Especially considering the speech the one priest gives about war and how war turns good people into broken men who resort to becoming bandits). The books have a ton of magic, but magic always comes with a huge cost. Like with the fire priests, every time one person is brought back, they lose a piece of themselves.
Yep. Something that book fans *tore the show apart for* is how-despite the show having fewer magical elements overall-the show’s magic ceased to have any consequences whatsoever. Like, they straight up brought Jon back from the dead, and had zero consequences for it. They might as well have had Jon just take a really long nap-for all the effect that his own DEATH had on both the plot and for Jon’s character personally.
@@bluecat1462 100%. I suspect Jon worged into Ghost and probably will come back more savage and brutal than he already became near the end of the last book, since he was already becoming more and more apathetic and far more manipulative. It's clear the TV show had no idea what the books were truly about. They didn't know how to treat the characters and they straight up butchered them, especially Jaime, Tyrion, Jon, Arya, Euron Greyjoy, The Dornish, and Dany. They dropped so many plotlines and things went nowhere. Like, what happened with Quaithe? They left out so many characters like Victarian Greyjoy and the red priest with the fire hand, Quinten, Faegon and Jon Cunnington, Marwyn, Lady Stoneheart, and so many other characters.
Super late to this, but I want to put a plug for The Sarantine Mosaic by Guy Gavriel Kay (2 book duology. Book 1 is Sailing to Sarantium, book 2 is Lord of Emperors). Kay is an outstanding author, and similar to a lot of good political fantasy there is a lot inspired by real world history (this series setting is based on 6th century Mediterranean powers). The twist, which avoids a lot of the concerns that you raise, is that the protagonist isn't one of the power players of the political folks but instead is a craftsman (a mosaicist) that is summoned and hired and gets to interact with the political players and gives us a different perspective on the politics and the impact of the politics on the people. The protagonist has his own concerns dealing with grief, craft, and his work - in addition to being pulled into some of the political actions because of his access to important people.
For Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire, this video is kinda hilarious because fans complain that there is too much politics in the later books and not enough magic. The politics is too detailed, too complex, too realistic, etc. And readers want the pace to quicken and for the magic that has been promised to be more relevant
Watching this more than 3 years after it was published: I think Raymond Feist's first Medkemia series (starting with Wizard: Apprentice) does a pretty good job of showing real human reactions to political conflict and at least some of the pitfalls of inherited rule. There's certainly an element of the conflict of the "good heir" vs. the "bad heir". But, especially as the series goes on, you see the flaws and virtues of both sides, and the costs of that kind of government. And that's without the comparison between European-style feudalism on Midkemia and the Tsurani East-Asian-style centralized empire that is such a huge feature of the series.
The government system I have in my story is a federation, with duchies, baronies, provincial governors, and an Emperor... It started as two governments, but they married their royalty
They lack the anarchist critique xd, but seriously yeah, democracies suck because capitalism and hierarchies and the state, if they went with the goverment of the poeople and showed withing the stori how that could work as it grew then it would be pretty cool
Suddenly I’m feeling so much better about my own fantasy story as I have done my best to make the politics realistic. I have done lots of research from real world history, combining different elements from different eras and places. I have also tried to make the people involved more realistic with different goals, not all of them altruistic but all of them valid even if they’re opposing. There is also no magic creep, no good versus evil, just humans being human which I find far more fascinating.
I like the middle part of political fantasies where they need to defeat the big boogieman at the end. Yes, it's all meaningless, but that's the point, that we lose sight of the most important things while they scheme and fight and have war. I like it because it's ironic that we root for one and when they win we are happy but while it happened, the most important thing was ignored or even worsened. It's like global warming, when we work at a job, we are happy that we and that company gets ahead but we will all freaking die because we needed to team up all along. If a political fantasy loses sight of the big boogieman and the winner does not care about it, I want it to be a tragedy :D It should work like scary kids' tales which make kids afraid of forests which are full of dangerous animals and people.
6:22 Isn't that the entire point of the series? All the political conflict and squabble became meaningless in the face of annihilation. It's up to both sides to stop fighting for a chair and put the supernatural threat as the number one priority. Yes, the political drama is more intriguing and thought-provoking but we can have both. It can be both a drama and an epic.
...I should have discovered this sooner, would make my fictional nation lore a lot more easily fleshed out. A republic splintered, the remains reorganized into an absolutist monarchy...
I can’t stand how books like these get published but there’s great writers out there that can’t get stuff published because it’s apparently not popular enough. So what? We have to write about toxic relationships to get shit published?
I have enjoyed the series pretty well... I guess not every book is for everybody. It a FICTIONAL FANTASY smutty romance novel, I thi k your expectations are a little wild... and it's not beauty and the beast. Also, the way you go about telling your opinion is super prissy. 🙄
So for me, I didn't read ACOTAR until I had already read ACOMAF. I had decided I was never gonna read the series until I watched the Cari Can Read video about ACOTAR. Decided it sounded up my alley, and a friend said I would enjoy the Rhysand character. So i started with book 2. It's been a very love-hate series for me. Because there's a lot of things I really enjoy about it, but then there are so many moments that feel dumb or make things fall apart. When I finally went back and read ACOTAR I swapped to the audio book because the beginning was so boring, and I hated her family to the point of insanity (still hate her family and hate how people justify them sitting on their lazy asses and letting Feyre work herself near to death) Had I actually started with ACOTAR I never would've finished the series cause there is nothing appealing about Tamlin. 😂
I ordered the game of thrones collection and ended up receiving throne of glass collection instead, and now im here wondering why life has f me in the a
I’m so grateful for this review. I’m struggling with finishing this book. WTH are all these fairy servants doing waiting on a fairy killer? And the dialogue…good lord…stilted and unbelievable. And what an annoying personality for a protagonist. Silly book. I’m 340 pages in. It’s like running through water to finish a page. Life’s too short
I would look at the ending of House of Cards S2. Frank wins the game, and is in charge. The "monarchy" (in a literary sense functions more like a monarchy than a democracy) was overthrown and replaced with the protagonist. I think it can be a very satisfying and chilling ending to see the protagonist turn into the villain in order to achieve power. This is a common trope, but it is a satisfying common trope that fits for fantasy politics.
