I think the arquebusier could increase its likeliometer as a unique unit in an hypothetical expansion/Update for european civs (portuguese "have" it as a tech, tho).
I don't think the swordsman line being a GOLD anti trash unit makes sense, because the trash units already counter each other better and it'd be a bad decision to make a gold unit to counter trash in that case. scout line counters skirms, skims counter spears and spears counter hussars, no need for making a gold unit. In fact the hussar fulfils its raiding potential better as well. I'd suggest making them another trash unit or reduce their gold cost significantly.
The idea that crossbows were better anti armour weapons compared to regular bows is a myth. In reality the crossbows with the crazy draw weights of 900/1200 lbs or whatever aren't better than regular bows with only 120/180 lbs of draw weight. That is because crossbows use much shorter bolts which means they've got a shorter draw length or power stroke. Which actually means that they provide the same amount of energy in their projectiles. So in terms of quality the normal bow outclasses the crossbow in every regard, except for maybe accuracy, although a well trained archer would probably be more accurate than a low skilled crossbowman. Even in battlements the crossbow doesn't seem to have the advantage that one'd expect. The main reason they were used was cause you can train a crossbowman much faster than an archer and that they can have their first shot ready to go. Other than that it doesn't make any sense for them to be better, so the armour piercing crossbow thing is a myth. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TdB470lo6nM.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mJMIHVpESaM.html&pp=ygUZbG9uZ2JvdyB2cyBjcm9zc2JvdyBwb3dlcg%3D%3D
Sumerian would be an absolute dream - I really, really hope we see them. They feel like a slam-dunk honestly, you could portray them relatively accurately without really upsetting anyone. I would like to see Aztec somewhere down the line but not as the 'mystery DLC' we've been promised. There's already an extremely good Aztec mod that captures them beautifully and I'd hate for the only remaining unknown civ to feel like a repackaging of that mod (the Chinese civ was already a mod sold as DLC and it was not popular).
Hey man, I want the exact amount of videos you suggested uploading, no more or no less down to the exact video time and date, even down to the milliseconds, nice video 😅
I enjoyed the video, but I did want to make a quick comment concerning the Genoese Crossbows. This was an actual historical military corps, they were actually quick famous, and incredibly feared for centuries. They actually were so deadly during a particular war, that there were orders to remove the fingers of any captured Genoese Crossbowmen, just due to the fact they were so effective.
Hot damn! Shows what I know about that part of Italy -- I've only covered Venice, the early Lombards, and late Rome thus far on my channel, so the rest of the peninsula is unfortunately completely opaque to me. Thank you so much for the clarification, that's really good to know and definitely makes me dislike the unit substantially less. Though the attack bonus versus cavalry still feels very weird!
I can see the appeal of having religious units be roughly approximated as casters. But I do really dislike how the conversion mechanic works. If they were going to go the caster route, I think there are substantially better ways it could have been done.
Thanks so much for saying so my friend! In more recent videos I have been focusing way less on units, but I will almost certainly be returning to them someday! And almost everything I do introduces some sort of regional thing at least, so hopefully you enjoy some of that newer stuff as well if you end up watching it.
As a original Age of Mythology fan I think the Whole Titan thing is just not needed, Atlantheans should also be cut. I was mad as a child that instead of Titans they didnt let you summon the Real gods, for me that would have been more intresting. But I havent played the titan campain maybe its good and give you some explanations. For me Its should be about mythology with historical factions. + Myths. So I am with you.
ideas: What if Vandals would be similar to Goths but with Mule Carts? Maybe each part of world could get one civ with Mule Carts so it isn't just gimmick. Unique Unit could be something like Huskarl Cavalry (high pierce armor, high gold cost)? Team bonus: 10% faster Stables, 10% faster Docks (weaker but more diverse).
I actually really like the first idea a lot. I even designed the mule cart in a recent video. The other ideas aren't quite as much my speed, but I really appreciate the suggestions
Something I would not like to see ingame but it have got into my mind after seeing the video. Vandal navy units would do 25% bonus damage against Roman and Byzantine navy :) The second campaign (coop one) sounds really good.
Not only is that extremely gratifying to hear, but I'm very proud to say that I'm actually working with an awesome team on actually producing a mod to implement some of my designs! They are far toned back than some of this earlier work of mine, but I think they are still well grounded in history and should be hopefully a lot of fun. Maybe if those do well I can even try my hand at something more expansive and boundary pushing too!
Great video, I enjoyed watching this as well as your proposed cultures in your last aom retold video. I understand you approached this with a focus on the accuracy and creativity aspect, while reiterating that you had appreciated what the devs had done before. But I wanted to address your question on why it was the Atlanteans who were more so created rather than some actual mythological culture. Seeing the Chinese expansion should explain it. Sure, that had been done with poor accuracy and poor balance, but even if it had been done accurately it would not have been as well recieved as Atlanteans. Atlanteans on release were very strong, just like the Chinese, but what made Atlanteans a better choice was the gameplay aspects. There were so many more Greek mythological creatures that werent included such as satyrs, Argus, Heka Giganties, automoton, and so on that really deserved to be in there. Not to mention it worked narratively and seemed like the obvious choice. The titan gods really fit in well into the game and it had just worked out for the Atlanteans to worship them. They had been betrayed by their Greek god so why stay loyal? Not to mention they'd been completely abandoned since they have been struggling for a decade by themselves, nearly eradicated. They were desperate, and the weakened gates from the Fall of the Tridant campaign allowed for the titans to have a little more power. So Kronos and Oranos (or Ouranos) using them to basically get back at the Olympians makes sense. And the main campaign left on a cliffhanger, with Atlantis sinking with a bunch of displaced Atlanteans. So having it come full circle to conclude their story was fitting. Not to mention how including a new civilization had to be related to the original 3 somehow. Sure, they couldve done something else, but it wouldve felt more forced. The New Atlantis campaign fit in perfectly with the original, making sense narratively, in their story, despite it maybe not making sense mythologically. I was actually a bit miffed that Oranos and Gaia were included since those are technically primordials and not titans (which I was surprised how you didnt bring that up) but even then, it felt like it made sense and had that flavor that was consistant with the rest of the pantheons. None were really accurate, and even the original campaign took many liberaties. Like a fully fictional Arkantos being at the Trojan war. Or going from Greece or Egypt to Scandinavia. Not to mention all the other mythological inaccuracies that are too long to list. Personally, I really wished the Atlantean titan was the hecatoncheries (spealt that wrong for sure lol) which im sure you have many personal wishes for this game as well, but honestly, the Atlanteans was the only choice. Anything else and it wouldve felt too seperate from the rest of the game. The only other option was to do nothing. So thats why they went with Atlanteans rather than Aztecs, Gaels, Sumerians, Japanese, Persians, etc.
Thanks so much for the kind words my friend! I completely understand what you are saying, but I do have to respectfully disagree with them being the only choice. Yes, while the Age of Mythology campaign is completely fictionalized, this also means that the creators have full narrative control over what happens in it and where the story goes. There is nothing stopping them from making just as good of a plot using a civilization besides the Atlanteans! Now I do think there is one potential scenario where you would be completely right: IF they locked in the plot for the Titans expansion BEFORE working on the actual mechanical side and civilization implementations, then I think you are right that they would have kind of forced themselves to go with Atlantis. Admittedly, I can't really see a way where this sort of thing would happen, but I don't know enough about the industry at the time to discount it. Maybe it was a studio issue? Maybe the writers spelled out the story from the very beginning and only could tell half of it in the first game? I'm not sure. Either way, I think you make some pretty interesting points, but it doesn't change my overall personal beliefs that the civilization was a very poor decision. I really appreciate you giving such a thorough response though, and if nothing else you have given me at least one scenario where the decision could have been rational, for which I commend you!
@robbylava one thing I forgot to mention is Kastor, Arkantos's son. He wasnt a main figure in the original campaign but he definitely was still important. So in a way they were stuck to including him, which probably gave way to the Atlantean civilization. Additionally, any other civilization would feel forced. Look at the Chinese campaign. It was very poorly recieved. Granted it was for reasons past it's isolation from the rest of the pantheons, but it being seperate was still the biggest issue. Arkantos was a god now and we had all these established, prominent characters like Amanra and Ajax. Not to mention how they included Folstag which was awesome. So cool to see that connection. I honestly wish they had included another civilization like you suggested in your concepts video. Sumerians sound awesome with the deposit at Ziggarauts for favor and such, or Aztec sacrificing. But even if these had been included, I believe Atlanteans were inevitable and necessary. It worked narratively and gameplay wise. It worked way too well to have ignored or substituted. Especially with the titan gods. It's obvious that Greek mythology is the most widely known and most well documented for its time. So not having a way to include titan gods would've been dissapointing. Don't forget the inclusion of the titan units for each pantheon. It wouldn't have made sense to include that with some other pantheon. Sure, it's inaccurate, as most of the titans weren't actually huge, since it's often a misconception between the titans and the giganties. However, the titan units in skirmish and such fit in the campaign well. You got to remember that the campaign has to serve as a tutorial/introduction to whatever new things there are. So you get to fight Cerberus and Ymir which are in skirmish, then Prometheus and Kronos who still have the same rough stats. Not to mention controlling a titan of your own, Gaia. So honestly I do think they were locked in and any other pantheon wouldn't have made sense in the gameplay or narrative. Also since I have your attention I did want to mention that the proposed favor generation for the Japanese was so complicated 😅. It's accurate and fitting but very convoluted. Going from fighting for favor or praying at a temple to building a building far from others and upgrading it and having a spirit enter it is a bit convoluted. But other than that I do really like the Japanese concept, I'd love to see a Shinobi with a stealth element or a Ronin. But Sumerians were my favorite by far, having the town center as the only drop off and Ziggarauts.
@tubagaming1376 yeah the Japanese favor idea was just something I loosely cobbled together, if I do a more substantive build for them I will try to come up with something more grounded. I do get where you're coming from and I think you are making more compelling arguments than just about anyone else in this comment section, but I still completely do not believe that the Atlanteans were necessary or inevitable. The Chinese campaign was poorly received not just because it didn't feature the other civilizations well, but more because the scenarios were boring and poorly designed, the story was crap, and the civilization itself was bad. I think most people would put the fact that the other AOM civilizations didn't feature enough well down the list of gripes. But let's assume that some of what you said was absolutely mandatory to be included in a Titans campaign: Kastor as the protagonist, bunch of returning characters so they have to stay in the same general region, Titans are a core plot element, etc. EVEN THEN introducing a completely new civilization would not be hard at all! Imagine: Kastor leads the Atlanteans, represented by Greeks like they were in the original game, to a new land that they try to settle only to find a completely new civilization already there (Sumeria could work perfectly for this, but a whole bunch of other potential additions could work just as well)! At first they fight, but then the coming of the Titans forces them all to put aside their differences and work together to stop this new threat. See what I mean? Not hard at all! And this was just a very quick idea I put together in a RU-vid comment, if you actually had a couple writers work shopping this for a month or so I think they can come up with a story that was just as compelling and connected to the original AOM campaign as the Titans one ended up being. I should also note that there are quite a few commenters who have expressed to me that they really didn't like the Titans campaign, which came as a surprise seeing as I quite liked it. This tells me that there are a lot of improvements that could have been made to it, and it should not be held up by itself as universal justification for changes made to the game to accommodate it. Pardon the wall of text. I hope you get what I'm going for here. Again though, I do appreciate the points you're making and think they are more compelling than most of the others I have read.
I have been watching alot of AoM casted games recently on youtube and I have bought the Retold version myself from steam as a kid i was a huge AoM fan i was very intrigued by the fact and always have been curious if i can get to see my religion (mythology) that is Hindu Mythology in AoM game but a few days ago i realised that it could turn out to be a tricky tasks for the devs firstly We Hindus are Vegetarians We do not beileve in harming any living creatures to fill out stomach so how will they impilment the Hunt system cows are like Gods to us so make they will have to make a whole new animation for it may they hindu Civ - villager can milk the cows and goats I am pretty sure hindus dont even eat eggs so i am not sure how will they do chickens and pigs I think if they are to impliment Hindu CIv it will be a difficult to gather food in the inital age but subsiquently it will become rewarding and i totally forgot about fishing there are instances to people fishning in Hindu Mythology texts so hmm def interesting for me
Very interesting indeed! I may try to tackle something to do with India at some point, though when I do I'm going to make sure I have some great cultural consultants working with me so that I don't disrespect modern practitioners. It seems like you're very accommodating and open to the idea, but there have been many I have spoken to who are far more concerned about it
@@robbylava yea you are correct, i did not even took into the consideration that people can accept or not accept / get offened if Hinduism is added to the game but delving a little further Indians, Indian Politics, and Hindu culture all have come a long way, it is fastly getting recognised by the world and given India's current PM, PM Modi, himself showed interest in the gaming area and wants to expand and open new avenues for gaming in India, organise Esports events, develop games made in India etc.... i think it will be a little difficult but at this point anything is possible given how much approachable PM Modi is and given the market I am sure a huge number Indian gamers will support this game if Hinduism will be added it will be a some good amount work but i think with right people and right mindset, it can help turn this around into a W for everyone sorry for long comment Big Fan of you and thank you for your comment
@@pranjalshukla8096Have you tried Age of Empires 3 DE + Asian Dynasties pack? It has the Indians culture, and I know that it had done away with the caste division for its Worker units because gameplay first. I suggest that the Dalit units from Town Centers would be suited to hunting and gathering from livestock (except bovines) and wild animals and basic reconnaissance, so that Shudras (builders, lumberjacks, miners) and Vaishyas (farmers, artisans, merchants) wouldn't.
@@royasturias1784 that will be too complicated and too controversial + that is age of empire game not a age of mythology game 3rd if the devs include Dalit, Shudras, Vaishyas it would not work its just a game and in Hindu myth there is no Dalit or Shudras or Vaishyas (meaning there are such names but any of them can do any work they can even become warriors or kings, same for the Kshatriya they can also do any work, it is difficult for me to explain this but its a misconception) and 4th caste system was introducted by Britishers it was not a part of Hinduism so your idea might offend others
Hohohohoh If it's three civilizations and a free rework, like we had in Dynasties of India, I would probably not bitch them out for charging $20. BUT, if they keep up with the two civilization thing they've been doing recently, I would certainly not be pleased.
I remember suggesting on the AOM reddit once that Atlantean architecture should be based of Minoans. It would be a nice way to include them in the setting and they would fit pretty well with the theme of Atlantis as you said. It would also def be better than the Mayan stuff they have now, especially if we want to see Mayans added in the future. They might as well have roman units though, i don't want Rome either but making up something for the Minoan military would be difficult since we only have one depiction of their military and it's just some people with spears and this way we still partially get elements of Rome. Titan worship also makes sense since we don't know much about Minoan religion either except for one possible goddess statue and since titans are supposed to be precursor gods it makes sense for them since Minoans were sort of a precursor to Greece.
Minoans would be a tremendous improvement, though I would personally still strongly oppose the Roman stuff. I don't love the Titan analogy as a direct one to one for them, but it would certainly be a damn sight better and a lot more plausible than what we have now
I’m a huge Roman history nerd but I’d have to agree that Rome would be way too close to the Greeks and wouldn’t add much “spice” to the game. It would feel quite bland (and I say that with a heavy heart). Especially because we already have the atlanteans. There’s so many other ancient cultures and mythologies from around the world that could add much more to the game. If I had to guess, I’d say the next new civ (after the Chinese) will be an African culture. I’d love to see that and in turn learn more about a new mythology, as I only have at best basic knowledge about African mythologies. Edit: and before anyone says it: I know Egypt is in Africa :D I’m talking about other, lesser known (at least in europe) African civs from middle / southern African countries.
Japan is one of those civilisation that used a non-composite laminate bow the Yumi due the lack of sufficient numbers of animals that would have provided the horn and sinew suitable for the construction of a composite bow, as a result they had to use mostly bamboo as an alternative.
I put out this video almost a year before the Armenians were released! Plus, them having the Composite Bowman as a unique unit is absolute nonsense and is implemented terribly, so even if the official build were released before this I would still feel pretty confident in my proposal here.
Why did you only name 6 minor gods per suggestion when we don't have the game 9 per civilization? Other interesting civilizations besides the 5 and honorable mentions are: Maya, Incas, Hittites and Persians. I would like an Inuit pantheon, but that is impossible.
I only mentioned six because I didn't want to wait into the weeds of what they would all look like, instead I want to save those full builds for later videos. I think all of the proposals you have here are great, and I think there are many more besides! Inuits might actually be more viable than you think, though for me they would be a very low priority personally.
It really should be! But as is, the game really is trying to represent itself as portraying mythology rather than fantasy. And as such I think we can hold it to substantially higher standards of accuracy and authenticity (at least in purely theoretical theorycrafting contexts like this one).
Does anyone want to see age of empires dive in where age of empires 3 left off start in the industrial age and work into ww1 I'd love to see age of empires explore the idea tanks planes and explore Austria-hungarian empire plus love to see the card system implemented but have unique units buildings amd technology to the respectively civ even if it takes after age of empires 2 woth the technology set up
Tho I'd love to see Oceania/Australia get some love as well aboriginals along with Polynesian civs be cool to have a campaign along with maps with the challenge of island hopping
I actually did a Polynesian build on my channel a year or so ago! Not my best work, but I'm reasonably pleased with how it came out, so check it out if you'd like to see what that might look like!
Personally, i don't care much for the addition of more cultures such as japanese and aztecs. I would much more prefer, if they expanded some of the great civilisations we already have. There are so many gods still left to be added and so many heroes in the greek mythos, that one could easily have 4-5 main pantheons in each civilisation. Or if one wants to keep it to three main gods for each civ, then one could add three options instead of two. But that's just my take, nice video
Thanks for saying so my friend! I completely agree with you that there is still a TON of material in the current pantheons to be explored. However, I personally love the idea of adding more cultures in the game while simultaneously fleshing out the ones that we have now.
Your point about Celts, Slavs etc... is off though. How many grounded myth units can you come up with? Even with Egypt you can see that the devs not only struggled but outright made things up. Giant Turtle? That is from Greek myth (Theseus). Petsuchos? Not a mythic unit. Wedjat? A god. Phoenix? Again, Greek myth (the Egyptian "equivalent" is a god that has no connection to fire or rebirth). Scorpion Man and Anubites? That is from the movies. Mummies too do not feature in actual Egyptian myth, that is a modern horror story trope. You say the game is oversaturated with Greek myth. If it weren't for Greek myth, you wouldn't even have a game.
The Egyptian culture will certainly add Serpopards (half-lion, half-serpent), Griffons, Ammits (soul-eating demonic creatures that are 1/3 crocodile, 1/3 hippo, 1/3 lion), Naddaha (Rusalkas of the River Nile), Basilisks and Ushabti Constructs a la those in Warhammer Fantasy... and Apep The Greeks will still have the Harpies, the Seirenes (Sirens), Erymanthian Boars, Trojan Sea Monsters, Teumessian Foxes (terrors of Thebes / Thivai) and the Charybdis The Norse: the Draugr (make them more distinct than the Einherjar), Elven Archers, Lindworms (that are not worms, but two-legged serpents), Nøkkens (ambush riverine or lake spirits) and the Lyngbakr (Leviathan-like whale) The Atlanteans: the Catoblepas, the Blemmyes (headless humanoids with eyes on their chests), Unicorns, Lemures (vengeful spirits), Laestrygonian giants and Orthrosses (Kerberos, but two heads)
@@royasturias1784 Egyptians: Serpopards are 1) Not an actual mythical creature with specific characteristics you can put into a game. It does not feature in any Mesopotamian stories and is just there as a figurine they put on walls. 2) Actually a Mesopotamian creature. Griffons are a Mesopotamian creature. Ammit was a goddess, not a creature. It would be like introducing little Thors to the Norse roster, or Demeter to the Greek one. Naddaha is modern folklore, not from ancient Egypt. Basilisks are from Roman bestiaries, not from Egyptian myth. Ushabti from Egyptian religion are nothing like in Warhammer. They were intended as little servants, nothing more. At most you could introduce them as an equivalent to Dwarves, but that would be a stretch. Apep is a god, not a creature, see above. As I write above you also have a ton of myth units in the Egyptian roster that are not actual myth units. Mummies as this "walking dead" thing do not exist in Egyptian myth, it is a modern invention. Anubites and Scorpion Men are from the Mummy film series, not from Egyptian myth. Even if one was to accept your suggestions (none of whom are valid for reasons specified above), they would still barely end up with a playable roster due to cutting all the non-grounded stuff. Greeks: Greeks have loads of myth units because Greek myth is the most comprehensive, especially when it comes to mythical creatures. Regardless potential Greek myth units are irrelevant to my point. Norse: Elven archers are not a thing in Norse myth.
@@johanlassen6448How else would the Egyptians get more myth units? Anubites and Avengers were like Lesser Daemons of Chaos gods, and they can't rely on such wights born of the chosen minor gods' likenesses forever. Avatars (aside from the Son of Osiris God Power) would be more of a Hindu culture specialty. Lamassus, Simurghs and the Nephilim are off-limits. Never must Elves fight with only fisticuffs, hence Elven Archers, I mean in the game, Cyclopes wield clubs, Minotaurs wield maces (or battle axes) when their horns aren't enough, Colossi have relatively big xiphoi, Centaurs and Medusae use bows, Satyrs hurl javelins, Valkyries carry lances, etc.
@@royasturias1784 I didn't say they shouldn't. Read my original post. There is literally no indication that Norse Elves were warriors of any kind. You seem to believe that they are like Elves in LOTR. They aren't. Elves and Dwarves overlap in Norse myth. Hence why "Elven archers" is not a thing.
Gaelic mythology is something of a specialty of mine, and I am very confident I could get three civilizations worth of myth units out of that alone. Commenters have similarly assured me that Slavic mythology, while less of a specialty for me, is in a similar boat. Saying that without Greek myth we wouldn't have a game is somewhat odd to say and I don't really understand the point. Pointing out that some cultures may well not have enough myth units to make a full roster, on the other hand, is reasonable to say. But I don't think that should discourage people from discussing those cultures as possible inclusions. You're completely right though that the Egyptian myth units are nonsense. I really look forward to tackling those in a video at some point!
I would be interested in seeing new pantheons and maybe doing a Chinese one. Kind of how u did a Romans build before they got released. So do a Chinese pantheon before they r released. But definitely want to see new pantheons added.
It's incredible how easily and so much better this would be :O I'm actually surprised nobody thought of this before. The only disadvantage I see is that it would be a way harder sell than atlanteans because people wouldn't recognize any of this.
Hey! Really glad you think so! I was quite proud of it myself hehehehe I do think it's a slightly harder sell, but It does still have the more common touchstone of the Titans, and they wouldn't have to bring the PIE stuff to the front, just have it subtly flavoring things behind the scenes.
