Conversations on the cognitive functions hosted by Joyce Meng, a certified MBTI® Master Practitioner, Chestnut Paes Enneagram Coach, Jungian Typology Expert, Master NLP Practitioner, and Gallup® CliftonStrengths Coach.
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I agree with the other commenters who mentioned that his viewpoint on autonomy is similar to an INFP's. We also believe in giving the person the freedom to choose what makes sense to them. However, with pessimistic Ne, I can foresee the bad consequences of a person's actions and if I care about them , I will try to warn them about it.
You’re just slow entjs.. And that self fulfilling prophecy thing is just you in your prison.. -entj (oh and the thing I think is absolute truth, ain’t it 😆🤌🏽)
So what is the tangible aspect of MBTI? There must be one because he is involved in it. ;-) Want to say: I do not support this defintion. ISFPs are not automatically anti intellectual simps.
Whereas OPS tells people that Te, and Fe are the tribe functions, basicallly you could in fact say that basically all the external functions, including the extraverted perceiving functions, are in a sense 'tribe functions' (although calling something 'just' a tribe and nothing more function is too simplisfic). However, people with extraverted perceiving functionsoften like perceiving things together (Se will likely prefer _doing_ things toegether and prefer Ne _talking_ though their perceptions together). So Ne wants to see what the other members of the 'tribe' have perceived too, but yet in the end it will still retur to the self in order to judge all these perceptions. Perceiving together for Ne might be watching tv together while making commentary if things they see make sense or not or sharing ideas with eachother. With Se it might be more that they like _doing things together_ yet unlike Tribe do not transform into 1 mob of people that all have the same (logical) opinions in the end. It's more about being individuals, yet connected in some sense by sharing information, basically like the internet was initially (not really controlled by anyone really). Also, in another sense everyone puts differnet things on the internet , yet _you_ decide yourself what you're going to agree with. If P typeshave Ti/Ne, they will discuss if it makes sense may watch youtube together or point out how things seem illogical to eachother, but no do expect the other to automatically fall in line like Fe/Te more or less expect. So in the phase before the decision making, they might also want to be informed by your perceptions perceptions and include them them if they perceive you have perceptions that are not too biased, unclear or what not. . However, in the end the will still decide and judge things themselves with their own judging functions, because these judging functions are internal and may assume you will want to do that too on our own and will likely not push some idea on you. However, they might tell you their own reasoning about it, but by doing that they just want you to judge it on your too before you agree with it. (I've as Ti-dom had Te users who liked my reasoning so much that they started to just imported whatever I thought, whereas to me that feels wrong. They should always _judge themselves_ if they think that makes sense to themselves too). In the case of informing others, they will likely inform you more about what is logical if they are T types and even their perceptions might be aimed towards perceptions that are somewhat related to thinking rather than feeling (value judge). If you give feeling based info to them, the will likely analyse it in a Ti sense rather than strongly support your moral stance or go against your moral stance. Even if they will join in giving moral stances, will likely also be somewhat moderate in their moral views, as Fe "moral views" are more grey, meaning leaning slighly more towards a view where everything is equal than the introverted functions which might be more extreme good/bad (FI) or right/wrong (Ti)) rather than go along with a more extreme stance (which Fi) can see things as more extreme than Fe typically.
Just as data dumping on kids, for them to make their own decisions, would be an obvious disaster, similarly, adults are effectively kids when they are completely lacking foundational knowledge or experience. "We are our brother's keeper."
ISTJs are blowing my mind right now. The mbti community focuses so much of N types we don't have the best collective understanding of what Si even is. This was so insightful.
Ironically, the role that people play, is a hint at the role they want you to play. High Ti users value autonomy and good emotionless information, so that's what they want to give to you. You make the decision because you'll feel better that way, we'll help fill in gaps and help point out any possible reasoning issues. This is what makes us feel safe and operating more effectively ourselves when others give us this respite. All high Ti users also have Se or Ne high up. Hence get information and use Se/Ne/Ni to experiment/make sense of all the options. They are biased towards wanting options and freedom. I've noticed many people aren't actually helped by all the information, because it's hard to transfer all the important context, and they don't have the tools to/don't want to go through the effort of make sense of all the information in context. Te users can get annoyed for this reason, and many people want a shortcut (myself included sometimes), to use other people's feelings about the info to come to a pretty good, though mostly non-ideal decision quickly.
While I agree with the majority of the things you said, I'm not sure if I agree with the term "role", as sounds like a certain, specific type of position within a group. I think INTPS and ISTPS like having their specific Ti-dominant role in groups . With this I mean It's my impression most types want a certain role in a group and if 5 other Ti-doms are already talking that role in a group of 7 people, then they might have the idea they are contributing as much, as there is no "Ti-deficiency" . Most people like being helpful/useful to others because that feels meaningful ot them and since Ti doms are so orientated towards informing others about their perceptions and will mention what makes sense to them, it is only really a valuable trait within the group dynamic if it's not already accounted for. An EFJ on the other hand with poor Ti may *crave* to be informed by an ITP because they feel they have limitations in that department. So when they receive the info with gratitude, which in turn make their role in the group easier and more effective because now that weak Ti is somewhat helped before theyuse it in their role as Je lead or take action with their Je (Fe). In a similar manner I believe typical INTPs actually crave some warmth and affirming words that EFJ's typically give out to people, which mean in the end it's a win-win situation where everyone contributes doing their what they can give most easily, because they simply have _abundance_ of it. (poeple typically have an abundance of their dom function)
INFPs are the exact same way. They would never tell you what is right or wrong for you regarding your values or feelings or desires. That goes against your autonomy. And as an INTJ, I am the same way when it comes to feelings. I passionately defend people’s rights to feel exactly how they feel and that’s always valid. I would NEVER tell another person how to feel. An ISFJ coworker once told me how to feel and in my mind, there was about to be a fight. Of course I kept that fury to myself (clearly she would have then told me I wasn’t allowed to feel that fury either, so she lost the privilege of ever getting to know how I felt again on anything that matters to me) so no, I feel how I feel and it’s nobody’s place to judge that. But as a Te user, I definitely would provide advice (not demanding anything of course that is not my place) on a process or skill if someone asked me. Not everyone wants to do their own thinking and it’s not my place to tell them they should or shouldn’t think. If they want my help and I enjoy providing it, that’s a win-win. 😊
Alright this is where a healty friendship speaks as an Istp when I wanna nap I just tell one of them to be my pillow and sleep and they do it and they are not even weirded out by it I love my friends
So cool. Ti and Fi remind me so much of each other, but about different things. Like our intentions are the same, but the subjects are different. He sounds like I do, but about objects, where my subject would be about whatever makes you happy/feel good/likes. So cool. (Aux Fi)
I so absolutely adore seeing another ENFJ with interests in the esoteric realms & metaphysical subjects of life. My heart is smiling with such warmth just listening to you. If you would have lived in my country, I would have definitely invited you over for some tea and diving deep into matters of the heart and soul. You really make my heart smile and you feel so brotherly to me, I hope to meet more ENFJ’s since I am surrounded by mainly INFJ/INFP/ISFJ (whom I also love but I really feel how lovely it is to encounter a very similar kind of energy, it’s so joyful)!
The Fi-Te in Kyle is so strong, he is like so sure with what he says. Meanwhile Boris Ti-Fe is giving him slower and not realy sure-ish answers but I guess he measure his answers alot to fit the Ti framework
The issue with being misunderstood, once I realized they meant being fundamentally misunderstood and not just the frustration of miscommunication ("I'm trying to tell you something in Greek and it turns out you only speak Tagalog"), was really enlightening for me. (Unless I fundamentally misunderstood that idea LOL)
I loved this! I couldn't understand how my friend and I both tested as ESFJ. We have been friends for 42 years and are quite different. Now it makes more sense. I thought she was an ESTJ and tested wrongly, but she really is an ESFJ.
I’m INTJ and really do not relate to what the INTJs said here. Maybe it’s because I’m 4w5 or maybe I’m good with critic Ti but I definitely feel the compulsion to explore lots of knowledge and at least be conversant with it, not just for narrow practicality but to feed my Ni so that it can make a unified theory of everything. My Te is there to chase Fi dreams, not to bind me to contextualising evidence and goals. I also don’t feel a compulsion to stick to one topic, I love when Ne users ramble because it gives me an amazing window into many topics and into them as an individual.
I'm an ENTP, and I have never gotten along with an ESFJ manager 😂. Like EVER. They truly make me feel nuts. I do not understand their "logic" - if you can call it that. I find their decisions fickle and shallow. They are very swayed by the popularity of whoever they like in the moment. They do not like to be intellectually challenged or debated. They tend to micromanage with types that don't adore them 😂
@@NovemberLah AH I just watched her video about that painting too ("self portrait") and indeed I agree most things indicate Fi more than anything else Although this is not a real typing with limited info, so far it leans most to Fi dom at the moment. Here i'll mention most of the things she says in the video and mention to which function it reminds me most "painting called" 'arm of blame' - sounds Fi "deeply personal" - sounds Fi "deeply soulsearching" - sounds Fi "questions like who am I" - sounds Fi "hatred for injustice in the world" - sounds Fi 'abusive power'= see bad in powers that control them and give it value orientated name - sounds Fi "someone that displays a kind heart" - sounds Fi self portait with singular super serious and deep meaning - sounds Fi+Ni (No Ne 'meanings are fun but subjective, anything can be anything vibe) Also, your work as you mention being "social work" seems more of ethical/feeler type of job, which makes more sense for an idealist feeler (fi dom) than an ENTP with POLR Fi. you are into anime - anyone more into anime than Fi doms? Again, no conclusive typing of course..but so far I've not seen any Fe or Ne. No light charming, uplifting Fe+Ni voice presentation. No friendly Fe melody in the pitch of the voice when the lines are spoken, yet the vibe is more very serious, more negative than positive, talks like about to be emotion but supressing it
@@NovemberLahEsfj here married to ENTP for 29 years. Besties for sure. People seldom recognize this pairing. But I'm a flexible creative ESFJ who goes along with all his crazy ideas. And wrecks cars.
I also think the «self portrait» video represents deep Fi. I also will say here, if Zoebrow is reading this that it was excellent work! Both the painting and the text. If it was for social work studies surely you got an A? Also want to express sympathy for what you have been through and find it admirable that you want to turn your misfortune around to help others. If you think ENTP is your type sure, why not…But I would check out closer maybe any type with Fi first or second. Such as ISFP, INFP, ENFP, ESFP.
I think people misinterpret the "death stare" as judgemental or emotionless but it's simply us processing. We're systems thinkers so we need to calibrate new information on multiple levels to get a "bigger picture." When I'm critical, it's more of "systems" than individuals. However, I need to point out that most of us are pretty perceptive and emotionally intelligent so we're responsive to people in social situations--until we become overwhelmed (too much information) and phase out. As for planning, sometimes I like to be spontaneous. I don't like too much planning because I love discovery. Much depends on the individual philosophy of the INTJ and their unique character. We're flexible thinkers.
With all very due respect, Joyce, because you very much deserve respect indeed; but Thinking is the search for truth. Truth isn’t an emotional construct and it isn’t a personal thing. If truth was merely subjective, then you couldn’t even begin to create a personality/cognitive abstract or model in the first place. The purpose of any model is to create a virtual environment in order to glean the Truth from reality. The model is a hack, a method of building something from the bottom up and making comparisons with reality and fine-tuning the model until it is a replica of reality with explanations and instructions and bullet points on how that aspect of reality works. It is not that emotions are not important - but there is no such thing as “my truth”. Regardless of type, that is a delusion that we should, frankly, instruct the populace to throw into a burn pit. It is not okay that society has chosen to function PRIMARILY on subjective values. There needs to be an acceptance of at least a few OBJECTIVE FACTS. Whether they are first determined by the subjective and then cross-referenced with a group of people dedicated to the truth or it is derived from one source, it doesn’t matter. The truth is all that matters in order for people to actually have the freedom to Fe WITH AUTHENTICITY is the acknowledgement of the truth? Then Fe doesn’t have to be stressed out about being a liar or inauthentic… it can just love people with that love they need and bypass silly and unnecessary judgements - and, especially not bully, misrepresent, or put down those who are genuine for the sake of the people who aren’t genuine. Fe lead, without any respect for Ti, becomes a flying monkey on behalf of the liars (in groups). So, those who focus on truth get DESTROYED while Fe believes it is taking care of people; but is taking care of the evil person at the expense of the good person right? YES, sometimes it is… but this should be navigated with more balance than is performed. People need the freedom to speak THE TRUTH so that those who only believe in their own truth can face reality and everybody can be standing on the same solid ground. Then it’s a fair game.
I just learned I'm a harmonising INFJ! How very very cool! Thank you Joyce ❤ and best of luck setting up your wonderful retreat! I dream of one day doing the same Had no idea about the other types, but this explains a lot
Wow, this was an incredibly insightful discussion. Hearing some examples of how Tim and Michael utilize their respective cognitive functions was very helpful in refining my understanding of the concepts. I definitely resonated with much of Tim's descriptions. The Ne-Si dynamic in particular felt very relatable, so I think I'm on the right track. Having taken a few tests and more importantly trying to determine my own functions, INTP seems to be the best fit for me so far. Thanks for the video!
Expressionless watchful face. 😐People would often ask my mom "what's wrong with her?" She got pissed once, and raised her voice a little, "Why do people keep ASKING me that? She's fine! She just LOOKS like that!" 🤣🤣
Actually, it's the ENP types that are going to have half a dozen different plans as backups. As an INTJ, I make *one* plan that is complex enough to cover as many eventualities as possible. What you think are backup plans is actually just part of one big Xanatos Gambit. The difference really shows when something completely unexpected happens that throws us off guard completely. I've seen ENTPs easily shift to a different track in that kind of situation, but I tend to freeze up completely or go into purely reactive extraverted sensing survival mode, because my brain needs time to process the unforeseen situation into a completely new outlook and plan.
