Army and Outdoors (Previously Kiwi Disposals) has more than 30 years' experience in the Army Surplus business bringing the very best Military and Government Surplus clothing and equipment. Also a huge range of Hunting, Camping and survival gear.
guys stop making those bullshit tests without knowing this camo story. .this camo was made as first purpose to defeat night visions. and the military doctrine of that time was to fight mainly in night operations to compensate for the small size of the swiss army. so this camo is really particular in day time. but really really great for low light environments qnd night. and if you can find pictures or try it with night vision googles you will see how good he is for this purpose. curiosity: the actual camo of the swiss army is not nir compliant at all😅😅
1-we're testing these in day time just for people to see how they stand up regardless of its supposed intent (as mentioned, NVG and the likes can be future videos) 2-we talk about what this pattern is like with Night vision and its origins in another video. Apart from its own history, IR and pattern effectiveness is a much more debated & contrived rabbit hole to go down
Surprising to me at least was the fact that the black in the pattern revealed the user's position. I guess it has something to do the with the shadows being unnatural to the rest of the terrain. Overall though, fairly effective.
Thanks for the video. I like the look of Alpenflage. Where I live, this would be ineffective for concealment, but I still think it looks great. Unfortunately, they don't make this kind of stuff in a size big enough for me.
The pre 83 series works great in the Fall woods here in Northeast Kansas. The red seems to stick out more in the Spring/Summer. The post 83 series is a more flexible pattern imo, but they both have their place.
Flecktarn is one of my favorite patterns for hunting around the Cedar forests in Northeast Kansas. It blends perfectly into the darker colors and shading of the cedar tree and the dark shadows around them. Great pattern and the reason the Germans have stuck with it so long.
Can you put an Israeli sleeping bag from the 70s inside? In my country's army we have them as a supply and they wouldn't let us place all the other elements that we had to carry (unless they burst first). What sleeping bag model do you use?
we don't happen to have one of those on hand so can't test that I'm afraid. However these would take the USGI patrol sleeping bag just fine with a bit of room to spare in the main compartment. The one in the video is just woobie (poncho liner)-I had this very loosely packed
Just got one. It is unissued and good quality. Haven't had time to put it through it's paces. I prefer the more traditional backpack designs over the more modern rectangular MOLLE design's so after some basic modifications this pack should be fine.
fair enough, I can respect that! They're hard wearing and very economical for price, what people usually don't like about them is those straps with heavier loads. But for those on a budget or carrying lighter loads, they're a good surplus option
Good demo. By the way, TAZ83 was the non-infantry uniform, infantry stayed with the load-bearing jackets until after the Stgw 90 introduction, and TAZ90 was/is used with the Grundtrageinheit 90 conventional webbing. TAZ means "Tarnanzug", "camouflage suit" and refers to the cut of the uniform, not the pattern, for which we have yet to find an official name. There's also an awful lot of variation in colourways, I've got some TAZ83 where the red is almost mauve, and the other colours can vary quite a lot too leading to patterns of quite varied levels of overall contrast.
Appreciate the info bloke! Out of all the tubers on the internet, I'm glad to have you commenting on our Alpenflage vid of all things! ❤ Thats interesting as I didn't come across this info online and was speculating what the TAZ83 users would of had for load bearing. Appreciate the info! With all the surplus we have had in of both, the TAZ83 is super saturated (with some variance but nothing I'd consider too radical in change) and the older field uniforms always being more muted which I must say Im more of a fan of. If only we had a urban training facility torn up somewhere nearby....
great kit considering most modern kit options are not split rigs, and the ones that are want you to sell a kidney to buy one without the pouches to fill it out lol, some tips, i use tie straps on the pull tabs for the pouches about 1/2in up from the triangle pieces to keep the tabs from sticking out, i use the external pouch tiedown points for stuff like my mosquito net carry sack and my multitool, i run the GP pouch on my right front instead of the 2nd mag pouch, and i dont have a 5th back pouch
something I do with my own kit as well, remove excess strapping by taping up. For load all depends on what your using it for and what with - wearing standalone, with a flak vest or under a plate carrier or even how skinny (or not) you are!
Can definitely think of a lot of places in the US these would work well in autumn, as well as Europe. Switzerland is ironically not the country I'd figured it'd be suited for with a lot of their defense focus in the treeless mountains
My Identical Twin Brother and Myself As Well As My Deceased Sister-in- Law ( His Wife) All Wore The Woodland M81 Camouflage Pattern Battle Dress Uniform ( BDU) As The Official Combat Utility Uniform of The US4CES Until Retired During The First Half of GWOT, Starting With The USMC Adoption of MARPAT in AD 2003.
I bought my boots last year, unfortunately they came without laces, old leather, eaten soles and the toe of the boot on the right was supposed to be as hard as stone, it's soft, the year of manufacture is 2008, do you know how I can have one from 2020 like yours? very new, or how can I restore it
surplus stock piles always varies but if you place a order with us you can always leave a note in your order requesting for boots from a certain date. Definitely pay attention to the listed grade as these can change with each batch 👍
The funny thing is when we were issued the four-fruits pyjamas back in 1988 (pre-Internet), all sorts of rumours were circulating, some of them turned out to be true (or partially true), like its German origin, being worn by the SS, the printing machine smuggled from Czechoslovakia, the red colour as IR decoy, the anti-IR coating (yes the IR was a big thing despite the fact we weren't using IR light any more). Many uniforms at that time were quite worn out and not as shiny as yours ;-)
Fleck tarn seems to thrive with even the smallest amount of shade drakness, ect, it makes you very, very hard to see take advantage of that. Additionally, woodland of most kinds would go very well with it. Note cover any external non covered bits with leaves or is available, maybe a none intrusive Gilly wrapping mybe cloth with flecktarn on it. My analysis is that it is my new favorite camo on top of already using it anyway. flecktarn is great
the reds are very strong (and in my opinion waaay to strong on the later version) but do their job in a leafy environment well. I guess the real question is does it continue to break up the human form at realistic engagement distances - something that is very difficult to purvey in camera
@@armyand_Outdoors True, I suppose this pattern is just very specific and tailored for Switzerland. Red colors do have shorter wavelengths in relation to light so that could also explain why the reds were beginning to fade dramatically as the distance increased, but to be fair most of the colors in other camouflage patterns begin to fade at greater distances anyway.
Yep, its cos the red isn't supposed to trick the human eye in the visible spectrum. As I understand it, the pattern was developed to combat gen I night vision. The red especially was picked to reflect(?)/absorb(?) the active light emitted by those early night visions, that is why the jacket includes a thermal veil to cover one's face while donning the hood, which is totally badass. Not all jackets had them but mine does and I run around with that thing on like I'm in assassins creed XD. If you think about the terrain these would operate in, namely the Swiss Alps, it isn't impossible to believe that there are some ares of red tinged lichen or just orangey mineral deposits among the barren rock faces. In the midwest where I live this camouflage is perfect for early fall to mid, where the dominant color in the forest is brown, orange, or even yellow. My forest is much more diverse in color during fall so its probably up to geography or timing. Either way I won't deny it's a niche pattern.
You can see around the 1 min mark I put the boot on - you can squeeze your foot in with them half done up (I'd retighten the bottom half to be sure) and then proceed to lace up the top half.
Ordered a helmet cover and was really disappointed. I'm not sure if it was made too small at the factory or what the deal was, but it absolutely would not fit my M56 no matter how hard I tried. I followed the video to the T, but this cover is just simply too small. No amount of stretching was able to get it to come close to fitting. Fast shipping and in good shape otherwise. I do love the East German Zeltbahn I received though, no complaints there.
First off sorry to hear that! (please give our CS a yell). I don't believe the covers come in sizes (no markings present) but I suppose as you say its possible they were made a bit small or shrunk with moisture in storage for decades. It would have to be some pretty major shrinkage, but even if the elastic part cant quite fit over the helmet brim, it should still be possible to tuck it in some what and a helmet net will help secure it all. Glad to hear you were pleased with Zeltbahn though!
definitely on both counts! A full fledged tent is gonna always be 100% better but the zeltbahn concept was mostly from a age before synthetic polyester & coatings. There are plenty of ways to try 'proof' them a little more thanks to modern technology though
