👉🏻Ammo that Does What it's SupPost-ta!👈🏻 Federal Hydrashok DEEP .380 ACP VS .38 Special+P 

I am going to assume this is a legitimate question, and because I get this SAME question collectively on my my channel about 37 times a day, I am going to pin this response...... Why do I not test .380 ACP+P?? BECAUSE IT DOES NOT nor has it EVER existed. Under SAAMI spec, (you know, the official American standard for cartridges) the ONLY +P cartridges that exist, are .38 Special+P, 9x19mm+P, .38 Super+P and .45 ACP+P. That's it. You cannot test something that does not exist. You might ask, why not level the field with .38 Special standard pressure? Because Federal Hydrashok Deep ONLY COMES in a +P variant. These are the only two variants of these calibers that the Federal Hydrashok Deep comes in. Any company putting ".380 ACP+P" on their ammo or a +P on any other cartridge that is not .38 Special+P, 9x19mm+P, .38 Super+P and .45 ACP+P is lying about something.

​@GunSam great test. I have the same EZ and have watched all your 380 comparisons. I'm impressed with the results. This would only be a last ditch caliber, as I have others.

@@GunSamThere’s always THAT person. You can’t make everyone happy, just ignore the haters. You’re putting out great data and real world application testing to the public in a format that’s easy to digest and learn. I just watched 5 of your videos and they helped me narrow down the best load for me and my 2” LCR. Just know that 99% of us really appreciate all the time and effort it takes to do these tests.

@@GunSamthey do 100% make +P .380 rounds 🤣just because it isn’t SAAMI spec’d doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. That’s like saying vitamins don’t exist because they aren’t regulated by the ATF. If you do ANY .380 VS .380+P testing you’ll see that there is a difference. It’s not rocket science it’s just ammunition. I know you’re a revolver guy but come on, don’t be dense.

There is always someone.. who doesn’t know crap .. and yet they are the one that posts .. their ignorance

Very true. My late father had a colt python with a 3 inch barrel. It hit hard with +P .38 Special and of course it was accurate.

Agreed, I have a 3 inch S&W Model 60 so always interested

My S&W 66-8 has a 2.75" barrel which is close enough. You get an extra round, bigger grip, and much nicer trigger over a J-Frame. But you really do lose pocket carry. You do need an over garment. At least I do. I can only wear it OWB. It does tuck in nicely and it's not too heavy on a proper gun belt. It's perfectly fine in cooler weather. But I would rather just pocket my M&P340. You can forget it's there.

@JJ_SDWR I have a 3 inch Pro Series Model 60 that I am very happy with. It has a superb trigger and is a fine companion riding IWB very comfortably.

@@brianmoore1164 I've simply had no luck with IWB carry. It's just too uncomfortable for me. We're all built a little differently. The model 60 pro series is quite cool though. That's magnum rated, isn't it?

Cw380 2.58" barrel vs a s&w with a 1.87" barrel

Yeah the ammo was impressive enough I'd consider buying a browning 1911 in 380. I'd darn sure stick to the hydro shock most other 380 bullet test I've seen are quite inadequate.

@@NukeCult666 Burt Gummer approved!

Also underwood extreme penetator 380.

@@jamesnevitt3400 I know Underwood makes some powerful ammo. I'd like to see a gel test with some of Underwood's .380 ammo.

Lots of 380 load expand. I am amazed that it expanded AND prnetrated adequately.

Thank you

Thank you

Harder to find one.

327 would beat it just because of the higher pressure

I saw a video this week of a female clerk who shot a large male robber at about 2ft with 2 shots to center mass. He took about 3-4 slow, small, steps and dropped to the ground. Just because its a bit less power than 9mm Luger doesn't mean its not deadly. It was carried by French and Italian police back when it was invented by John Moses Browning around the turn of the century fwiw. Its really not the slouch some people make it out to be. Plus you can see the ammo /bullet tech keeps improving. A 3.5" or longer barrel is really a big help to it and I carry a economical Ruger Security 380 with that size barrel, and 2-15rnd mags. 380 is the same 9mm diameter .355" bullet and the same brass case just 3 mm shorter vs a 9mm Luger. Hopefully something I said helps folks see 380 auto is no 44 mag, but its no slouch either.

The FBI also used 3" S&W revolvers with 158 gr LSWC HP in a +P "the FBI Load". I forget the revolver's model but it was similar to the 10 but 3" barrel.

@@GunSam ​ It was the model 13 or 65 (stainless).

​​​​​@@GunSamThere is a model 36..5 shot..3" heavy bbl. I've heard that it was popular with sheriff's, though I'd imagine their deputies would've carried a larger service size.

​​@@GunSam#13.S&W.

In the writings by Jim Cirillo (RIP) that i have seen, he carried his primary 4" Model 10 in a shoulder holster, and his 2" on his belt. He often found himself going for his 2" because it cleared leather fast from the strong side. His ammo was a fairly soft "cup point" (hollow nosed) wadcutter handload. His partner used the same bullet style in his 45 Gold Cup for the first round hand cycled into the chamber, backed up with ball, since there was no way that wadcutter bullet style would feed (and probably still wouldn't in today's guns). They also preferred the M1 Carbine to a shotgun as it turned out (and i think this was with ball ammo)- somewhat lighter, much less recoil, and one bullet at a time rather than a spread of projectiles. That is probably a good idea in a crowded city.

I can see why though. Its not a cheap test medium and then add up the ammo costs and you really have a nice bill. Its really good to see Gun Sam do it. Its too bad there is only 2 brand/types of handgun ammunition designed to penetrate it. hydroshok deep and critical duty.

​@@PatriotPaulUSAyou can get them at the junkyards around here for basically free if you have the tool to cut them out. They don't charge you for cracked or damaged glass.

Only place I could find the .380 version was my local stores. But the .38 version I could not, had to get that one online.

I bought a box of .45 acp and it went with a Star I sold. The pistol was stolen from him and they were convicted of the theft. Him and his wife wouldn't tell me who stole it. It must have been an acquaintance of theirs. Probably a juvenile.

It very hard to find ammo. I gave up looking for deep in 380. Forget about the 50 pc "tactical" boxes too. I did just get a couple 50pc boxes of Hydrashok "Tactical Deep" 9mm . Its not cheap ammo, but it is one of the 2 best for defeating barriers. I don't know of any others, except Hornady's Critical Duty" that is core locked, harder lead, etc. for barrier defeating. There may be 1, I just haven't heard of any others. Sadly Federal premiums Hydrashok rounds aren't even nickel plated anymore. Niether is Hornady's Critical Series. They both have a disclaimer saying that until they can get Nickel for their platers to be able to plate their cases, they wont be including it in their premium defensive ammo. But their is no "supply chain crisis" they tell us. Rare earth minerals mainly come from China these days. They own almost 75% of the rare earth mines in the world.

@@jamesortiz5388 Sad, these days you better keep em locked up good, in a safe or hidden, with many of the young folks, unfortunately.

Just have to look online. I was looking at the ammo that is on sale on Midway USA yesterday and I noticed a handful of HST that was on sale and I saw some of the Hydrashock Deep too but I think it was .45 ACP. If you look around there, SGAmmo, AIM and some other sites eventually you will find it. I buy most of mine at local shops and gun shows but I do buy some online too mostly when I find a good sale. Every now and then I get some really good deals on Midway and AIM especially when AIM gets LE trade in ammo. Found some crazy deals at Academy and Field and Stream too. I guess F&S doesn't exist anymore think they are all Sportsman's Warehouse now but at both stores I have found really good deals randomly. Way to late now but when Walmart quit selling handgun ammo and .223/5.56, 7.62x39 I bought a lot of ammo really cheap. A whole lot of it was PDX1 for $10 or so a box.

That windshield test is brutal for a small caliber like 380. Hopefully none of us will ever need it. The odds are we wont, but its good to have, I know. There are several 380 HP rounds that are great for expansion and depth, but they do not have the barrier defeating capability of Hydrashok and Critical Duty.

Thank you. I try, I am not hip enough I think, I have no idea lol.

​@@GunSamyou are perfect for the ballistics nerds like us and that counts. When it comes to accurate testing, I come here always

I actually have once or twice before lol. I think I also put a hole through the camera tripod legs on a different set I had downrange before.

@@GunSam I bet that was annoying.

Really like that 357Sig.

Interestingly enough, I have noticed over the years with a few different Taurus revolvers that their velocity AND accuracy is often better than other brands. They make good barrels, they just need to work on their internals. If they went the route of SARUSA and used S&W's internals rather than their weird S&W/Ruger/Charter hybrid type action, they would have a much better revolver.

@@GunSam IHMO, best thing about a Taurus: no ILS, no Internal Lock System, no effing Hilary Hole. ah, but that's another topic. I wonder if you could devise a test that would PROVE to S&W that the ILS ruins accuracy or velocity or durability. Anything to convince management to stop doing that to their guns. Yeah, not your problem. Nevermind.

@@pecosjane Taurus does, at least in some of their revolvers, have a lock system. If I recall, my 605 has a Hillary Hole on the hammer itself, but the 856 does not. I don't think those locks would change anything in the action as long as they were unlocked.

You get to 9" if you make 3 trips.

I think more people carry those Ruger micro pistols definately, but less folks shoot them regularly, unfortunately. They are not an easy pistol to shoot accurately, without a lot of practice for many folks. Especially smaller people and women. Its just so small and lightweight. I just got a doublestack larger frame 380 for that reason. I can shoot 100 rounds thru it easily. I sure couldn't with a LCP without being in some pain I bet. I cant slip mine in my pocket tho, either. Each has trade offs, but I want to know I am accurate when I pull mine out to shoot. Unfortunately it means I have to use a holster and its not as easy to hide, and comfy as a micro pistol. LCPs are great for carry, but not fun to shoot more than 25- 50 rounds thru. I bet in a few years many LCP folks will buy a larger pistol, to go shoot with, if they like to shoot and practice. Especially if its their only pistol.

Ha ha ! I hope you don't have them dam critters. I fight them here where I live with a ton of trees and a huge lake.

@@PatriotPaulUSA yep, they can be a PITA.

The FBI protocol calls for 2 different exact angles to the glass, when it is fired. (a compound angle basically) They also have to shoot thru 2 sheets of 20 gauge steel 3" apart to simulate a car door, a drywall wall of 2 sheets 3.5" apart, a sheet of 5/8" plywood. Shoot thru each of those, then thru a 18" airspace, then thru the clothing and gel barrier! They must achieve 12" of penetration in each test in the gel, but no more than 18". Its quite a test.

@@PatriotPaulUSA Exact angles for a test doesn't = real world performance, but it does make the test fair to the contestants(ammo mfgs.). My stating that shooting at someone through a windshield is basically attempting a headshot stands, as well that a bullet in Sam's windshield test that makes it through his fiberboard and preceeding gel might be a fight stopper on a human's noggin. The main difference between civilian and police gunfights is that the civilian only needs to get out of the pickle jar, whereas the police are obligated to apprehend the aggressor(s).

Cops will absolutely shoot people in cars. If the car keeps moving and runs over them they get a promotion and a paid vacation. Win win.

It will stop the next move the driver makes in their attempt to run over you. It might be just a bit better than a hope and a prayer.

Thanks for watching!

I saw those Barnes Tac XP rounds also. The solid copper rounds like G9 Defense or Underwoods LeHigh Defense Extreme series penetrate glass much better tho. I also saw that the hollowpoint style copper rounds can expand early and stop a projectile very quickly, before its gone 12" or more deep in gel. A solid copper like doesn't have that problem. It uses fluid dynamics, if you watch their commercials. With hollowpoints its all about the caliber size, the loading of them with what powder, and their bullet weight, and getting the Feet Per Second just right. Its that way in every HP bullet. I just purchased some Atomic Ammo that is loaded with Hornady's XTP bullet. It easily outperforms Hornady's Own XTP 380 ammo which is 1000FPS! Atomic Ammo 380acp is 1100FPS (+100fps more.) Hornady's is very marginal in many tests. In the gel tests I have seen, Atomics loading of the XTP bullet is much better in depth, and expansion. It has been proven, right here on U tube. Something to think about. With 380 its a huge range of barrel lengths too. That changes FPS. I have seen a 1/2" more barrel increase speeds up to 100fps. These micro pistols like Rugers LCP with a 2.75" barrel and some are even shorter. They can be especially tricky to load for. What powder works for them, may not as well in a 3.5" a 4" or 4.5" or longer pistol or vice versa. g9defense.com/g9-9mm-80-gr-external-hollow-point/ (Some of the newest, hot solid copper rounds)

The best round for 38 is the Hornady critical defense.

I would carry a 3" but i'm happy with the 1 7/8" LCR in .327 Federal I carry.

@@GunSam That's a real pocket rocket. Wish Smith still made a J frame in 327.

I would try shooting that +P 40 cal, 180 grain, into a "soft target", (whatever that is) and make sure it doesn't pass right thru though. If it doesn't your set! If it does, its not as effective as you think. Testing data shows that huge energy doesn't always win. If you download the 2016/17 JOINT AGENCY BALLISTICS TEST FOR DEFENSIVE HANDGUN AMMUNITION you will see that 45acp actually defeated 44 magnum in tests! I know it sounds crazy right? It shows that lil old 45acp Win PDX1 230gr went 16.5" deep in gel, expanded to .640, with 404 ftlbs energy. The 44mag Rem HTP 240 gr penetrated 16.1", expanded to .630, and had 859 Ft Lbs energy! More than double the energy! But it didn't penetrate as deep, or expand as much! prnt.sc/_UIYtxojO4bY Its the massive transfer of energy, by the complete stoppage of the bullet into the target, and the huge wound channel, that does all the damage. Not to mention in todays sue happy, lawyer world, any pass thru of a bullet, lawyers tend to try to blame on the shooter, for not using the correct hollowpoint, expanding, defensive ammo. Its something to think about.

Already did that, then did this....so it's weird you said that.

@@GunSam I’ll look them up. Thanks, and have a good one.

It may be best to go to a local range and take a box of each ammo you want to test, and rent the 2 pistol types to shoot on their range. (If you have one anywhere near you.) Most larger cities and towns have some. The ammo grain weight and power level means a lot, as well as the caliber. Recoil is very subjective. My dad is almost 80 and cant fire most calibers he used to.

@dugbert5 - the Shield EZ is very easy to use. I own it, and use it to help new shooters get used to recoil and manipulation. The recoil is very manageable in my humble opinion. Good grip size and angle on the EZ. Magazines load easy, and slide is easy to rack.

@@mikewithers299 thanks, I looked at the S&W EZ .380. I’m trying to get my hands on a Ruger security 380 and see how it feels.

@dugbert5 good luck on your search. Try them first and see if the slide is easy, then see if you can range test them like PatriotPaul said. 🇺🇸

@@mikewithers299 So I couldn't find any locally. I took a chance and ordered one through Gallery of Guns. I'm glad they are not a lot of money 'cause I really don't like it. Is it easier to rack? Yes, but not by that much compared to my Firestorm mini 9mm. Does it recoil less than 9mm? Yes, but not significantly. It certainly doesn't feel like a .22. And for me, it's not comfortable to shoot, it bites my trigger finger. And I couldn't get the hang of the mag loader that's included. This will be the first gun I trade when I come across a nice revolver.

I live across from a cemetery, like 50 feet away. Might be good advice lol

.22lr is you best bet. The ammo is light, the weapon that uses it is light and can have high capacity mags. Plus, very easy to run a can on it to prevent sound attention and everyone has .22lr ammo. Since you're only doing head shots, the .22lr is the best option.

it's one of those things, where it's not really meant to simulate shooting into a car as much as it is shooting out of the car. But gravity is a bitch, so letting the glass lean against that wood structure is easier than building a new arm or something, to hold it angled the other way facing me.

@@GunSam Holy perforated eardrums, Batman! As long as my car was mobile, I would use it as a weapon or means of escape. If I had to shoot out of it, especially through the windshield, I can't even imagine how much trouble I'm in. I want a belt fed machine gun! I have a sunroof.

if you mean the table, believe it or not all I did was find a cheap 1/8" plywood and screw it over all the big holes in that table. After I painted it I was shocked that it wasn't bowed out anywhere and looked new.

@@GunSam well it looks like you put some effort into it, I noticed, but I just retired and have been cleaning and painting everything in sight! Lol

Never seen a .380 flat nose that wasn’t a hollow point. It’s common enough on 9mm though. Sorta gives it extra impact energy for shock value since FMJ 9mm usually just zips right through.

True! But the 38 Special cannot be loaded "hotter" unfortunately. The 38 Special has a heavier bullet is why its more effective. The 1902-1929 (early) 380 auto case has a lower max pressure than after its 1929 integration into the 1911. Since then, it was then rated at 33,000 CUP in 1929. The also early 1900s designed, 38 special revolver case, is a max of 18,000 CUP or 17,000 PSI. Later in the late 1970s the hot rodded +P 38 Special case is arrived at, with a 21,900 CUP, or 20,000 psi max rating! I don't know what the +P+ 38 Special rating or case is, Sorry. So its not the case pressure, its the bullet weight, that is the huge penetration advantage for 38 Special. Even +P 38 Special has over 1/3 less, maximum case pressure, than the 380acp. However the 130 grain bullet of the 38Special +P vs the 90 gr 380 acp is a huge percentage of weight. Also, There is good reason they manufacture Hollowpoint bullets in 40,and 45 cal. We need expanding bullets that dump ALL their energy and create large wound channels in a target, just as smaller caliber Hollowpoint rounds do. The rounds would fly right thru the target with minimal wound cavity, even in 40 or 45 otherwise. Testing data also shows that huge energy doesn't always win. prnt.sc/_UIYtxojO4bY If you download the 2016/17 JOINT AGENCY BALLISTICS TEST FOR DEFENSIVE HANDGUN AMMUNITION you will see that 45acp actually defeated 44 magnum in tests! It shows that 45acp Win PDX1 230gr went 16.5" deep in gel, expanded to .640, with 404 ftlbs energy! The 44mag Rem HTP 240 gr penetrated 16.1", expanded to .630, and had 859 Ft Lbs energy! More than double the energy! But it didnt penetrate as deep, or expand as much! Its the massive transfer of energy, by the complete stoppage of the bullet into the target, and the huge wound channel, that does all the damage. Not to mention in todays sue happy world, any pass thru of a bullet, lawyers tend to try to blame on the shooter, for not using the correct hollowpoint, expanding, defensive ammo. Its something to think about. I love solid cast lead bullets, wadcutters, etc, but they are more for target shooting these days, imho. You can make a good cast lead hollowpoint, but it is a lot of trail and error to match it to your specific gun and powder load, by adjusting lead hardness, cavity shape, and size etc. It still wont be as good as we can buy, for pretty cheap to load ourselves tho.

​@@PatriotPaulUSA Thank you for taking the time and doing a much better job of replying than I could have - couldn't grasp the whole "middle caliber" needing to be HP but not .40 or above. I'm thinking if barrier-busting is what you need, FMJ in any caliber would be better. But if we're talking personal defense, I want a HP in whatever I'm using. Side note: I don't have a .380, I'm here for the .38spl content, hahaha.

Yeah, But if you saw how far that 380ACP with FMJ Ball ammo can penetrate, you may think different. It goes right thru an 18 gel block like nothing. The average male torso is less than 10" front to back. In todays world, if you have to use it someday, and God forbid it over penetrates, which is more than likely, the lawyers will own you, and everything you have. They always badger the shooter about what kind of "defensive hollowpoint" ammo he used, as it is. Can you imagine, if you didn't have hollow points, and actually hit a bystander too. Just forget it, your done. I just bought a bunch of proven XTP loaded Atomic Ammo, with nickel plated brass, defensive hollow points, in 380acp that outperforms Hornady's XTP rounds for 21.99 a box of 20. (1.10 a round) www.midwayusa.com/product/1022981264?pid=899624 I also bought some Remington Ammo UMC 380 ACP 88 gr (JHP) 100 Bx for 47.99 (48 cents a round) its gone up a bit now battlehawkarmory.com/product/remington-ammunition-l380a1b-umc-380-auto-88-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-jhp-100-bx-6-cs Northwoods Testing did gel tests with Atomic Ammo in 380 here on you tube and it did very well in penetration and expansion.

@@PatriotPaulUSA -- When gel blocks start having bones and organs in them, then gel-penetration tests will have meaning.

If You can find it.FMJ FN.Makes a dramatic Difference.

If I ever get that caliber.