10 Things that you can do with a Line6 M5 and a Boss ES-5 

thanks :-)

thx :-)

Thanks a lot :-)

thx :-)

yep, you will certainly find better sounding alternatives to almost each of the M5’s algorithms (except maybe Auto Volume Echo). But for the price, it’s hard to beat. The Empress Zoia looks really really interesting, I would love to incorporate that one into my rig ...

not much more than what is in this vid ... several years ago, I made some comparison videos with the M9 and the Strymon Timeline: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ix-pXLgPLYY.html | ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UY45HV5IX5c.html

muchas gracias :-)

yep, I do that ... a problem with the ProStage Remote Wah Wah is that it doesn’t react reliably on CC values for controlling the integrated MIDI volume function. You first have to pass through the value the volume was set to before. This works great when you connect a MIDI expression pedal; it avoids volume jumps. But when you change a patch on the ES-5 and send a single volume CC command to the ProStage, most of the time nothing will happen. You will have to send a CC ramp using the ES-5’s INT function. And even this doesn’t always work; for reasons I still haven’t fully figured out, sometimes you need to pass through the previous value twice to make the ProStage react.

It’s not really a song, more improvised, but I guess I was inspired by stuff like “Don’t let me down” by the Beatles and “Walking on Air” by King Crimson :-)

Programming the M5 is extremely easy. You push the "Model select" knob to cycle through the effect categories (Delay, Reverb, Filter, Modulation etc). You turn the "Model select" knob to select a certain effect model within a category (like, one of the various delay models). Then, you use the other 5 knobs to set the parameters of that effect; the display shows parameter names and values. If you use a directly connected expression pedal (or, as I do here, expression control via MIDI CC#1), you can have heel and toe settings for any (or all) of the 5 parameters. Like, you put your expression pedal in heel position and set delay repeats and mix to your taste for a standard delay; then, pedal in toe position, higher repeat and mix values for wilder delays. Save by pressing and holding the "Model select" knob.

TheGuacamoleXplosion ok but with the expression pedal you just set it at tor position, move the knobs and the set it to heel position and adjust the settings. How do you do it with the es5 with midi?

Same thing ... M5 MIDI implementation is very basic, see my answer to Graham Bell below.

TheGuacamoleXplosion great. Thanks a lot. Very helpful information.

Thx ... the yellow pedal is a custom made pedal that serves several functions: 1. It's like a patch box, allowing easy connection to guitar and amps 2. It's a master bypass switch for the whole pedal board (middle footswitch and blue LED indicator) 3. It's two pairs of regular footswitches. The left pair goes via a TRS cable to the ES-5 CTL in and can be used to switch various functions via assigns. Right pair goes to the Sonuus Voluum via a special cable; it switches up/down the Voluum's presets manually. 4. It contains a relais controlled A/B switch. This is also the answer to your final question: Yep, ES-5 loops are mono. I have each of my two stereo effects (Timeline and M5) in one of those mono loops, ES sends wired to left(mono) inputs, left outputs wired to ES returns; ES main output is passed through the yellow box to the left amp. Now, the right outputs of Timeline and M5 are wired to the A and B inputs of the yellow box. Via on of the ES-5 CTL outs, I can now switch whitch one of those two right outputs is routed to my right amp. So for each ES Patch, I can define which of the two stereo pedals will actually be used in stereo: That one needs to be last in the ES audio chain, and the ES needs to tell the yellow box to route that one's 2nd output to the 2nd amp. On your other questions: Yep, M5 can be easily used for Wah effects via MIDI expression. Like, you could use the ES-5's MIDI LFO ("WAV") to create a lfo autowah effect. And you can also use the virtual expression pedal ("INT") that I use for Whammy in the vid for Wah effects instead. However, I doubt that it will be easy to make that sound good, especially for funky rhythmic wah work. There, I would always suggest to controll the Wah by an expression pedal, or to use a touch wah / envelope filter (like the M5 "Tron Up" model) instead.

First, you have to figure out what MIDI command you need to send to your delay for infinite feedback. Like, on the M5, you need to programm the expression pedal function to have standard feedback on heel and infinite feedback on toe; then you send CC#1 (M5 MIDI expression) with value 0 for standard feedback and value 127 for infinite feedback. Or, on the Timeline, you have a dedicated CC for infinite feeback, that is #97 - send value 127 for infinite feedback on, and value 0 for going back to whatever feedback setting you had before. Now, to control this from the ES-5, I use assigns with Source=CNUM; CNUM means "number footswitch of the currently selected patch". For momentary, use Mode "MOM". So, for the M5, you would program the ES-5 like this: Edit => CTL/EXP => Assign 1 (or any other Assign) => Sw=ON, Src=CNUM, Mod=MOM => Cate=MIDI, Ch=[MIDI Channel of your M5], CC#=001 => Min=0, Max=127. Save, and you should be ready to go (of course, the ES patch should also have a PMIDI setting to recall the delay preset you want to use on the M5; and the M5 expression needs to be set as explained above)

Yes, should work. I don’t use my ES-5’s EXP in jack for expression pedal, since I need it for my external footswitches, and my Sonuus Voluum serves as MIDI expression pedal instead. But I can easily make the Voluum control a Wah in the M5, so I see no reason why it shouldn't work the same with expression pedal connected to the ES-5.

if your going 100% wet into your Egnater amp, then it doesn’t matter at all :-)

yes, you can. I never did, because I have the Sonuus Voluum on my board which can send MIDI expression to the M5 directly; and I need the two external extra footswitches (you can either connect those OR an expression pedal to the ES-5).

The M5 is mostly controlled via MIDI in this video. The small expression knob on the lower left corner of my board is hooked up to the M5 expression input through a TS cable (actually, it's a EBS ICY30 Y cable, since the expression knob has a TRS output, but the M5 only accepts TS for expression control). So, I can always directly access M5 expression functionality if needed for spontaneous changes. But normally, I either program the expression value into the ES-5 and send it to the M5 via MIDI; or I use the Sonuus Voluum to send MIDI expression data to the M5 (not shown in this video, but in my pedalboard walkthrough video).

I would also assume yes, but haven’t got my hands on a HX / HX Stomp yet.

By using Assigns. Unfortunately, ramping up and down cannot be done with the same footswitch. In this case, I use MUTE to trigger ramping up, and CNum ( = Current Number = pressing the footswitch of currently selected ES-5 Patch; in this case, footswitch #5) to trigger ramping down. For this, first, you need to get rid of the default muting funtionality (EXP/CTL Menu, go to Page “MUTE“, set Func=OFF). Now, you can use any two free Assigns; let’s say Assign#5 and #6: EXP/CTL Menu, go to Page “Assign 5“, set SW=On, Src=INT (INT is the ramp generator), Cate=MIDI, Ch & CC# to the Channel and CC number of the parameter you want to control (in this case, channel 5 and CC#1 to send expression to my M5), Min and Max values to taste (those will be your minimum and maximum speeds), Act L=0, Act H=127, Trig=Mute, Tim to taste (this is the ramping time), Crv to taste (this is the ramping curve; I normally use LNR=linear). On the menu page for Assign 6, you set the exact same parameters, except Max and Min values are reversed now, and Trig=Cnum.

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Thanks. It is all clear now. I missed the trigger part..Do you set it to toogle or momentary?

@@vladimirpavlovic9488 there is no TGL/MOM selection available when you set Src to INT ... that's because triggering a ramp (one-way) is always momentary. And the ES (at least with its current firmware) doesn't allow two-way ramping from one footswitch. In a parallel universe where the ES can do two-way ramping, TGL/MOM would make sense again: TGL would mean kick once to ramp up, kick again to ramp down. MOM would mean: Press to ramp up, release to ramp down.

Hi Roger, thanks. As with any loop switcher, you can put as many pedals as you want into one loop; but you can only program the on/off status of the whole loop, not of the individual pedals in there. Like, I have my drive section with the Tonemaster Booster/Fuzz and the Minstrel Overdrive together in Loop 3. On the ES-5, I can program "Loop 3 on" / "Loop 3 off". What exactly happens when Loop 3 is on can only be controlled manually, by switching the Tonemaster's Booster and Fuzz Section and the Minstrel on or off. Not sure what you mean by "if a save a patch including my overdrive, if I change the configurations of the pedal for the second patch would it affect the first patch?" - the ES-5 cannot "remember" any settings that you make on your pedals. So, if you save a ES-5 patch with you overdrive pedal switched on, and then create a second patch with the same overdrive pedal, but changing the settings on the overdrive pedal, this will of course also affect your first patch. So, if you want different kinds of drive sounds (like, different gain, different volume, different Eq settings), you have some options: 1. You might get a programmable drive pedal, such as Chasebliss Brothers, Elektron Analog Drive etc (also, the digital drive pedals from Source Audio, Strymon etc) 2. You might use several different drive and boost pedals in individual loops. You then can program in each ES preset which of those pedals should be switched on, and in which order they should be; and even, to some degree, adjust total level with the ES mixer at the output (unless you need that mixer for parallel loops or trails loops). If you want to go this road, an ES-8 might suit you better than an ES-5, since you may want more loops than just 5. 3. What I do: I have two very flexible devices on my board, both with programmable presets and MIDI control: The Prostage Remote Wah that is normally routed before my drive section, and can, besides being a Wah, also be used as a programmable clean boost and as a mid/treble boost (I may replace this with a Chase Bliss Condor at some time, which is a great programmable / MIDI-controlleable filter/EQ); and the Sonuus Voluum which is normally routed after my drive section and can be used as programmable level control/volume boost, and also as noise gate and compressor. So, even though I just have one programmable drive loop, I can still program different gain and volume levels, and also a bit of eq-ing (with Remote Wah boosting different frequencies). In the drive loop, the Minstrel is normally always on; and I use the Tonemaster to quickly and spontaneously add boost or fuzz when I need it.

TheGuacamoleXplosion thank you so much👏🏻 it’s all I needed to know. I like your channel thank you for your time !

Hi Vladimir, yep, second assign ... described in in my blog, final paragraph of the “INT and WAV” chapter: theguacamolexplosion.eu/boss-es-5-tips-iii-building-patches.html#mcetoc_1ddt6jrc90

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion That's great. I'll do a lot of experimentation with INT in the next days, it is really powerful. Thanks again :)

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Hey, for some reason that workaround did not work for me, trying to ramp up and down my delay pedal time, although I actually followed step by step and principle should be the same. For some reason, my external footswitch does not work the same way - it just reacts and starts ramping up on the relase of the button, not on press. (it is sent to momentary, not to toogle, just to clear it up). So basically I need to set another footswitch for ramping down or reseting to the default midi value/position. EDIT> it works fine with the internal NUM1-NUM4 footswitch. Why do you think it is? Does yours ext.footswitch acts the same way in that scenario?

AFAIK the Quintessence cannot be controlled via MIDI. For “And Your Bird Can Sing”, you need different harmonies; not only (major and minor) thirds, but fourths, (major and minor) sixth, maybe also fifths ... check the vid, the intervals are visible in the M5 display. An “intelligent” pitch shift algo like I use in the vid, or like the Quintessence has, can automatically switch between the major and the minor version of an interval. But it cannot automatically do all the stuff that happens in “And Your Bird Can Sing”; as you see in the vid, I use 3 different M5 presets, and then switch intervals in some. This can only be done with a device which can do intelligent Pitch Shifting AND can be controlled via MIDI (or has several on-board footswitches for different intervals). So, M5 and H9 will do the job with a MIDI controller. M13 and HX Stomp/HX Effects/Helix probably could do the job standalone. Quintessence will only do the job if you have a second person to turn the HARMONY knob at the exact right moments to the correct intervals while you are playing.

thanks :-) I’m not a huge fan of the M5 reverbs ... IMHO most are decent, but not great. I use Chamber and Spring sometimes. My favourite M5 reverb algo would be Particle Verb, a great granular reverb, but that’s a very special sound, not for covering standard reverb sounds.

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Do you think they are worse than those on regular reverb pedals of the same price like TC HOF or Boss RV 6 or Polara for example? Yeah those ambient reverbs would come in handy to since I have MIDI now. But this regular reverb sound and sometimes secondary delay sound would be it's main purpose on my board. Still thinking. I would like you to make even more videos with m5 :D

@@vladimirpavlovic9488 I have never made any direct A/B comparisons. I assume all three pedals that you mention will sound slightly better on standard reverb sounds; but better compare yourself at some music store, or check for RU-vid videos directly comparing those pedals to a M5/M9/M13 (which all have the same reverb algorithms)

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion i would appreciate a setup guide/tutorial of this. Please. Thanks in advance

@@TheTruth70777 of what part exactly? :-) A lot of stuff is covered in my blog, theguacamolexplosion.eu/boss-es-5/

The M5 has a very basic MIDI implementation (found on page 8 of the pilot handbook): 1. It receives program changes (1 to 24; some controllers will call them 0 to 23) 2. It syncs to MIDI Clock, when time/speed is set to note values (i.e. for slapback echoes or athmospheric echoes that you don't want to be synced: use ms instead of note values) 3. You can send MIDI expression on CC#01. This does the same as a connected expression pedal. That is, you can make heel and toe settings for each of the 5 parameter knobs, and "morph" between them. This is a very mighty tool, and it’s what I mostly use in the video. 4. You can turn the M5 on/off (bypass) with CC#11; 0=bypass, 127=active 5. You can send tap tempo taps on CC#64 (any value of 64+ will be interpreted as a tap) ... kinda unnecessary when you use MIDI Clock Sync 6. You can turn on the tuner with CC#69=127; leave tuner mode with CC#69=0 That's it ... the only other stuff M5 can do via MIDI is saving(dumping) presets, and loading them back into the M5.

TheGuacamoleXplosion thank you so much for this!! I was struggling to work this out, but makes so much sense now! Thanks again!!

Can the M5 control other MIDI pedals? Or a basic MIDI loop Switcher like the Voodoo Lab PX-8 (which I am using until I have fully figured out how to use the ES-8)?

I'm glad it makes sense to you Graham. I am all at sea.

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion thanks for your explanation! When I had setup a patch on the ES5 (for example 115) I was able to route my Expression Pedal like you decribed it. But when I switch back and forth between 2 patches (e.g. from 115 to patch 114 and back to 115) on the ES5, the Line6 M5 always forgets the Heel/Toe Values which are send from my Expression Pedal... so everytime I switched the patches I have to setup the heel and toe values in my M5 :/ can you help me, what am I missing?

you could, but you will have to sacrifice 2 ES-5 loops for the MM then. ES-5 Loop 1 send into MM input, MM loop send to ES-5 Loop 1 return. ES-5 Loop 2 send into MM loop return, MM output to ES-5 Loop 2 return. To operate the MM normally, you then have to switch both ES-5 loops on, and have them in the right order in the signal chain (Loop 1 > Loop 2). To insert other effects into the MM's loop, put them in another ES-5 loop, say Loop 3, and position that between the two MM loops (Loop 1 > Loop 3 > Loop 2).

You could do that with the JHS Panther Delay (the original one). It has a button to turn the effects loop on and off but I suppose that doesn't help here. The ES-8 has 2 stereo loops, ( one mono-to stereo, one stereo-to stereo) that might make it easier.

Of course the M5 can also harmonize without the ES-5. ES-5 just is handy for quickly switching between different scales or intervals; and for adding an analog dry path.

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Awesome! I'm the only guitarist in my band, so I've been looking for a lot of different ways to fill out my sound. I don't mind a pedal that takes time to get dialed in, so the M5 might be my next investment. My one concern is power since it's a digital pedal. I run a Truetone CS12 PSU, and the only outlet I have left is 9vAC (I didn't know how limited that was when I bought it). Both 500ma outlets are taken by my Empress pedals, and I'm not sure 250ma would cut it.

@@sean0775 my M5 runs perfectly smooth from one of the 250 mA outlets of my CS12

Nope; some stuff that I do here uses quite specific functionality of the ES-5. Like, the INT ramping function that I use for “Lonely Boy” and “Killing in the Name” is not offered by all MIDI controllers. Also, I use the ES-5’s parallel loop option quite a bit, not all loopswitchers offer that. Finally, especially with the M5, the option to change the order of loops (signal chain) per preset in the ES-5 is very useful. So, you can e.g. put the M5 in front of your overdrives for certain boost, eq, modulation and pitch sounds (even delay and reverb, if you want to go wild) ... and put it post-drive-section for other sounds, like typical delay, reverb and harmonizer. Programmable signal chains are so far supported by ES-5 and ES-8, Musicom Lab EFX Mk V and EFX LE, Gigrig G2, SoundSculpture Switchblade and the new RJM Mastermind PBC/6X (of course there may be additional ones that I haven’t heard of yet).

Nope, ES-5 (other than the ES-8) doesn't even have expression outs (just switching ctrl outs). It's all MIDI, using ES-5 assigns with INT ("internal expression pedal"); with INT, you can make CC parameters ramp up and down. Unfortunately, current firmware doesn't allow ramping up AND down with pressing/releasing the same footswitch. You either need two footswitches; or you can set up one footswitch to ramp up when pressed, and immediately jump down when released.

Or just buy a Boss PS-5. You can get them really cheap

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Could you clarify how you got all three parts to this. The way that it sounds is that you start at normal tuning, then you hit the assigned controller turning on the int expression, then it seems to ramp back up. I can't get it to ramp back up in tune. Are you using more than one assign?

@@MrGigbutt yep, two assigns. Explained in detail towards the end of the chapter on the ES-5 INT and WAV features in my blog: theguacamolexplosion.eu/boss-es-5-tips-iii-building-patches.html#mcetoc_1ddt6jrc90

in this vid, I mostly use the Timeline as “Fake Reverb“. For that, I use pattern mode, pattern #15, Smear full on; 200 to 350 BPM, Filter full CW, Speed 13:30, Depth, Grit, Repeats, Mix and Hipass to taste. I made a dedicated video about Timeline on Reverb some years ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mnjaQ9vrZ4g.html

yep, I maybe tried to put too much information in there ... fortunately, RU-vid lets you slow down any video while retaining audio pitch, check RU-vid settings ... this may help :-)

Hi Corey, first, you need to create a scene on your M9 where there’s a Pitch Glide model, and Expression Pedal #1 of the M9 will control the pitch of that model, with heel=-12.0 and toe=0.0 - I sold my M9 many years ago, but the Line9 manual should get you there. Once you have done this, MIDI CC#1 sent on the M9’s MIDI channel should control the Pitch between “1 Octave down” and “original pitch”. (The same would work with Expression Pedal #2, and MIDI CC#2, respectively). Now, you need to create a Patch on the ES-5 with a Patch MIDI recalling the M9 scene which you just created, and sending CC#1=127 to the M9 (because you want to start playing at original pitch). On that same Patch, you need to create two Assigns: One to ramp down the M9 Pitch Glide to one octave below original, and one to bring it up to regular Pitch again. The ES-5 won’t allow to have ONE footswitch controlling both ramping down and ramping up (you would need two different footswitches for that); there is however a workaround which will allow ramping in one direction when pressing a footswitch, and instantly returning to original value when releasing, explained at the end of this blog chapter: theguacamolexplosion.eu/boss-es-5-tips-iii-building-patches.html#mcetoc_1ddt6jrc90 Exact parameters that I used for the Lonely Boy ramping down assign in the vid: Sw=ON | Src=INT | Cate=MIDI | Ch=5 [in my case, for you: MIDI Channel of your M9 goes here] | CC#=001 | Min=127 | Max=0 | Act L=0 | Act H=127 | Trig=Mute [in my case; put here whatever footswitch you want to use, maybe start with CNUM, that is: number footswitch corresponding to currently selected Patcg] | Tim=5 | Crv=FST And the “instantly back to original pitch Assign”: Sw=ON | Src=Mute [should be the same thing as the “Trig=” in the Assign above; so if you used CNUM there, use it here, too] | Mod=MOM | Cate=MIDI | Ch=5 [in my case, for you: MIDI Channel of your M9 goes here] | CC#=001 | Min=127 | Max=0 | Act L=0 | Act H=127 Downside of this workaround: If you release the footswitch during the ramping phase (that is, before the lower octave has been reached), Pitch will be stuck at wherever you released the footswitch; and you will have to operate the footswitch again to “reset”.

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Thanks very much indeed! I shall get to work on trying that out. I found this vid (and your website) from the Gear Page. I must say, your site and vids are far more helpful than the manual from Boss. I like the concept of building a few patch templates, and then modifying from there...keeps things organized. I already have my Mute button set up to turn on a lead boost pedal for whatever patch I'm in...haven't figured out how to make the LED turn on when I switch the boost on yet though (the journey continues). Thanks again.

@@coreysullivan5025 switching the LED on is done with a second assign which mostly is exactly like your Mute button assign, only Cate=LED and Target=MUTE :-)

@@TheGuacamoleXplosion Crazy thread revival question...😅 Would this method work on an HX Stomp? I'm building a new rig with the ES5 and HX Stomp working in tandem. I've been trying to adapt the pitch glide control like on the M9, but it's not the same, apparently. I saw on another one of your videos that you had an HX Stomp, so I was wondering if you had cracked the code.

@@coreysullivan5025 I do have the Stomp, but I didn't find the time to try this yet ...

Don't have a MS3, MIDI commands to M5 might work ... but MS3 is fully digital, so other than with the ES-5, you couldn't keep the dry part of your signal analog

that’s what I keep telling my boss everyday :-D

ES-5 has 5 loops that can be programmed in any order. On my board, Loop 1 contains the Timeline, Loop 2 is Sonuus Voluum=>Subdecay Octasynth=>Mooer Phaser, Loop 3 is the drives (JDM Tonemaster => Kingsley Minstrel), Loop 4 is the M5 and Loop 5 is the Prostage Remote Wah. My standard loop order is Output

thanks for the reply man! and what does the patch and switching box(dimehead) do?

It's a custom made box with several functions: 1. It's a patch box, allowing to easily connect my guitar and my two amps to the board 2. There's a master hardware bypass (middle footswitch with blue LED); mainly to compare whether the ES-5 colours the signal (it hardly does) and do bypass the full board if needed (comes in handy since I always re-assign the ES-5 MUTE/Bypass footswitch to do other stuff) 3. The two left footswitches go into the ES-5's CTL In, and can be assigned to various MIDI functions from there. Like, on many of my patches, they switch on/off the compressor and the tremolo sections of my Sonuus Voluum. On patches where I use the Voluum as MIDI expression pedals, I use these footswitches to have 4 different output levels on tap (assigned to the Voluum volume section, which then is disconnected from the Voluum's expression pedal) 4. The two right footswitches go to the Voluum to switch preset up/down there. 5. Then, there's the internal relais-based A/B switch that I've described above.

huh? There are no keys on this vid. Only some key-ish parts from the Electribe ES2 groovebox, which I programmed (on #02, #06, #08 and #10).

what do you want to tell me, dear Retro Boy? I do know that there is Noise Rock in this world, I saw Dinosaur jr. live, and listened to stuff like Einstürzende Neubauten and Fugazi in the 1980s ... of course, the noise you can make with really loud amps and nice fuzz pedals is a different noise than the one you can make with a cheapo digital pedal. Who would have thunk? ;-)

yes, I even use a guitar, two amplifiers, microphones, a audio interface, a laptop running cubase and two cameras. No, seriously: If you watch the video, you will see that it clearly showcases the combination of M5 and ES-5, and features those two pedals prominently. Other pedals are involved, and named where they are involved.