Today on a very special Waveform: Marques and the gang take a road trip to learn more about electric cars, but instead the team learns more about themselves and each other along the way.
I’ve gotten stuck at a broken charger too. Called the number and they literally told me “ask a friend for a ride”. I was in the middle of nowhere. Had to tow my car home
Mach-E owner here 🙋♂️ Regarding the weird cruise control speed behavior…the Mach-E has a cruise control feature where it will automatically adjust your speed according to the speed limit, +/- whatever threshold you have defined in your settings. So I’m wondering if the previous driver had it set to go 20mph over the current speed limit (sorry if anyone else has already pointed this out).
On the topic of range estimates: Give me the estimate at the *worst case scenario,* so everything turned on and running full tilt, cargo maxed out, and reasonable-ish throttle. This way I'm not being shorted if I'm more efficient, but know realistic values if I'm utilizing the worst case scenario
Estimated range while driving is much more accurate, since efficiency is based on the speed and the driver. Recommended chargers take this into account. Worst case scenario, you just drive slower. Range increases significantly with slight speed decrease
When we drive our Model 3 at the speed limit, not over, and when we accelerate gradually, not lead footing it, we beat the range estimate. I think too many Tesla drivers floor it too much (it's fun, I don't blame them), drive 10 mph over the speed limit, and that's why they get bad range. Just my opinion 🙂
Bump up this comment, its the same with gas cars if my gf is a bit if a hoon and has to fill up every week whereas i can almost last two weeks if im lucky. I just love cruising in the left lane (right lane for you american folks), im in no rush and i love driving
Exactly. My lifetime average is 235Wh/ mile which is exactly the EPA mileage. Over the last 8000 miles the number is even better, 227Wh/mile and that includes last winter.
@@joshuarosen465 Phenomenal. What's your climate like, and is it a LR Model 3? That's what I have up here in Buffalo (orig., no heat pump) and lifetime, year-round, is 248.
@@johnp.weiksnar6861 it's a 2019 AWD so no heat pump. I only do long drives in the summer so that helps and I like back roads which also helps but I'm getting great mileage on Interstates also. I drive the limit and, rely on regen braking as much as possible and I do gentle acceleration. There is a lot of mountain driving, we've been to Vermont six times this year. In the winter I precondition the car before leaving so that I can minimize the heater use.
Charging and electric car at a hotel is one of the only advantages of an electric car on a road trip. So I’ll be much more curious to see what the time differences would’ve been if you would’ve taken advantage of that benefit.
@@seanz6586 Much cheaper to run* It's at the moment still so expensive to buy a decent eletric car compared to a decent car that run on gasoline/diesel that an EV would only make up for that difference in price if you drive like a lot, really a lot.
Not all have chargers and typically it’s not many and who knows if it’s even available, what if someone else is charging on a slow charger, they are gonna use it all night
IMO Chargers need to be run like gas stations, as in, privately owned businesses that leverage the infrastructure of a larger company (like Shell, BP, etc) for their "gas"/EV stations. Kum & Go has partnered with Tesla to install Tesla chargers at most of their newest locations and install them at some of their existing ones and I think that's the move.
Chargers are much better run as a single company or government run (or just the local electrical utility). It would be much easier to regulate and as long as the people involved are competent it'll be good, but the American government is just a bunch of corporations working to make people think public ownership of systems is a bad idea.
Great test! An important thing to note is that the electrify America Network was born by force out of Diesel gate so it doesn't have a ton of effort behind it and it's not a company trying to succeed, its them complying with the Diesel Gate settlement.
True, but the company has only been around since 2017 and already has a network of chargers across the country. There's definitely issues but the effort is there it's just going to take time to get to supercharger numbers.
Hopefully the situation will improve as the head of VW recently did a road trip in their own EV and shared his experience with charging. It wasn't good and he now realizes that improvement is necessary.
I work for Dyson’s Energy Storage R&D division and yes, the battery chemistry itself creates a charge curve. The curve isn’t necessary caused by any programmed logic in the car or charger.
All of this talk makes me extremely nervous about electric cars until the infrastructure is built up more. You all should do a test in Oklahoma and Texas. People out here drive long distances for work and leisure stuff, and there can be a lot of traffic, especially in Texas.
Eh, Texas has so many ev chargers. Especially Teslas superchargers. You can drive the ATX, DFW, HOUSTON triangle with even a model 3 sr+ just fine. I've done the dfw to Amarillo in a Tesla and it was perfect. Lmk if you need info❤️
Look up Roadie portable charging system. It's a portable battery that can be put in the back of a tow truck, and can add enough range to get to your next charger relatively quickly. So it does exist.
Great video. Also, What I think would also help is to add another factor into the mix - Weather. A road trip in the winter /cold climate will impact electric cars more than gas … but by how much ?
My winter efficiency only takes a 7% hit in a Model 3 Long Range. That means using the PTC heater (not a heat pump) to keep the cabin in the low 60s, and seat heaters, mainly on low. This original heater draws ~6kW, vs. a seat heater which is max. 80W.
Not charging at a hotel over night is not very realistic in my opinion. Most people driving a BEV would do that and choose the hotel accordingly. So this approach misses the point that BEVs can be charged anytime when they are parked not causing any delay on a road trip like this.
Also fast charging at night will take less time than the morning as the battery is cold soaked through the night, whereas at night the car has been driving so battery is nice and warm so it can charge quicker.
Thanks so much for these videos. I just bought a Model Y and my brother just bought a Mach E. We are both about to take a long road trip and this has taught us to me more intentional about traveling with the Mach E. We still LOVE our vehicles just learned that the rare road trips we take need a little more planning.
The gas car should have started with only 1/2 a tank of gas and the EVs full. This is realistic with real world where every time you take a trip, your first stop is 5 miles from your house to fill up the gas car or waste time the night before.
I am andrew, just listening to two blokes talk about their expensive electric cars and quality of life, while he/and i just drive a classic subaru that does the job
The more autopilot drives, the better the efficiency. Another power tip is to disable ap on freeway exit to max regen braking which can recapture tons of energy esp if exiting at full freeway speeds. Can gain 15-20% back in process especially if ap was driving the whole way sipping electrons (with appropriate follow distance; too much or little cause undue stopping & braking)
Scary that chargers can still be broken and nothing available for a long ways. Charging stations need some form of redundancy or recovery, in an IT way. Separate circuit, separate source. It should be considered a critical infrastructure system.
The ID4 from VW has a very nice charging curve to 90%+. The Pro has 270 mile of range, good driver assist, and an accurate range estimator. I'd put that up against the Mach E and other non-Telsa EVs.
When you mention range estimate for the Tesla, please clarify that it's the remaining battery capacity estimated in miles instead of percentage which is obviously based on "perfect conditions" because it doesn't have any other inputs to give a better estimate. However when you use the built in Tesla GPS navigation it gives a much more accurate range since it now takes into consideration the route including elevation changes. So with that said, it's much better to just use percentage as your display for how much battery you have left instead of miles.... in the same way for your phone it's much better to display your battery life as percentage instead of time left.
Gotta say this since people get thrown off by videos like this: most charging happens at home overnight. You won't be out looking for charging stations every day. Refueling is simpler and more convenient with an EV
@@andyguerrero7254 then you don't own an EV... More and more complexes are getting chargers, though. First, the people with garages will support the technology, then it spreads along with accessibility
@@brixan... that’s my current issue, I live in an apartment complex & I would like an EV. It be much cheaper than gas considering the amount of driving I do but unfortunately the nearest charging station for me is at a mall a few miles away. Chicago suburbs needs to catch up on EV infrastructure
Agreed. There's also a lot of multiple car families where one might own an EV and the other owns an ICE vehicle. That is currently my situation. On the long road trips we take the ICE. Ideally though in the future I'd like to go all EV. I mean if you are really that worried about it rent an ICE car for trips. Around town the benefits of owning an EV are so so much greater than ICE.
You can tell you really needed to work hard to say good things about the Ford Mache... because it is the only slight competition to the model Y. Most Mache are more expensive than a Tesla Y also.. but keep up the good work and keep trying with the Ford.
The no pre-planning rule is clearly the reason the Mach E lost by so much. It would have got third anyway, but you didn't have to kneecap it like that. Anyone roadtriping an EV plans out good charging options ahead of time and can also look for station serviceability.
That's part of the EV experience as it exists currently. For EV's to become mainstream, that process needs to disappear. I think that will happen as the charging network gets built out. Tesla realized years ago that the charging infrastructure is crucial to EV acceptance, so good for them. Hopefully time will cure this problem.
I don't think ev infrastructure will ever match gas station infrastructure because most of ev refueling happens at home. It does need to get more reliable and consistent, but I think ev road trips will always take more planning than gas raod trips. It's not like its difficult to plan stops on a road trip, people have been doing that for years.
Hybrids don’t really do much better than a gas car on the highway, in the city, huge difference, but highway driving the hybrid system is just dead weight for the most part.
From my home in Lubbock, Texas the nearest Tesla supercharger is 130 miles away so we've got a long ways to go on building out the charging infrastructure. I've driven Model 3 LR over 70,000 miles and the only time I've waited for a charger ( about 10 minutes) is in Houston on my last road trip.
Gas stations aren’t always found in rural locations, especially at night; charging stations are always open; amenities aren’t always available, though.
Btw high speed rail could make this trip in maybe 5 hours and would use even less energy! Makes you think if such a car centric society like the US is actually a good idea.
Basic range estimate in Tesla is nonexistant, however, if you set your navigation to a destination/supercharger, isn't the percent it predicts you will arrive at very accurate?
35:00 a battery that you can plug in does exist: eco flow. Also, recovery vehicles here in the UK are now starting to be equipped with chargers that can get you going for a few miles e.g. AA
I always set my clock ahead like between 5-7 minutes. My original reasoning was that this way I’m never late. The problem is that I just end up doing the math in my head and arriving at the same time! So I’d end up doing this too with the range on the Mustang. I’d push it past zero, counting on the miscalculation. Honestly rather than going through all that song and dance, just tell me the daym correct number. I think it’s just that there is a flaw in the programming in the algorithm that figures out how much you have left. Then they tried to play it off as done on purpose! “It’s a feature!” Yeah,, right! Just give us correct info Ford! Don’t be lazy!
I get the point but realistically, highly accurate range estimates are just not practical. There's way too many variables that can't be known ahead of time. Being further on the conservative side rather than optimistic just makes sense.
It's impossible for the car to give you the "correct number" because there isn't one! There are too many unknown factors. There is a whole range of possible outcomes depending on the traffic, the weather and the way in which YOU choose to drive. This was driven home to me early on in my experience with the Model 3. A road-trip of 230 miles was grossly impacted by a 40 mph wind. I was surprised at the amount by which the range was impacted by the wind. I had to decrease my speed to reach my destination, but the car had range graphs on the UI to show me how to manage the situation. This is just physics. The effect on a gasoline car would have been the same, but I would have just pulled into a gas station and filled up. Ev's need to get to a dependable, ubiquitous charging infrastructure.
I considered buying a CCS to Tesla adapter for road trips, but after inspecting 6 EA locations and discovering “out of service” stalls, I decided not to use EA. I returned to a few defective EA stations 7-10 days later and they were still out of service so that tells me their repair service is poor. Some EA locations are a mix of CHAdeMO & CCS with only 2-4 stalls so when one is defective you may have to wait a long time to charge. I’ve never had that problem with Tesla and have taken several road trips including Boston to SW Florida.
Sounds about right, John. My experience with EA was always hit-and-miss. Also, I just heard today that a Tesla owner returned their new CCS adapter since it failed to work on a good portion of DCFC stations. I'd wait for an official Tesla-issued one, and keep using the CHAdeMO in the meantime . . . if Supercharging is absolutely not an option.
My argument against it being less decentralized is it needs to be even more decentralized like gas stations. In many/most places you have two or more options to fill up at.
So long as the charging technology remains unpatented, that competition should crop up sooner or later, regardless of the centralization of Electrify America. For now, in EV's relative commercial infancy, more centralization is necessary for EV's to become viable enough for enough people to buy them, and so competition will naturally crop up to cut into Electrify America's market share. It's a cyclical problem, but one that (for now) requires centralization and unity for non-Tesla EVs.
13:23 no it's just that you haven't used the consumption graph, which will give accurate range estimate instead of simple range display based on battery %
35:00 There's a portable charging system called SparkCharge that can send tow operators with a battery that can fast charge your ev in case you ever run out. I believe they're only on the east coast at the moment but if you need them, they could be a good option.
Mach e charging curve needs to be ironed out. It should match at least what WV ID 4 offers at 80% 66kw and 35kw at 90%. Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ionic 5 will soon bring much needed competition as far as fast charging. Just a heads-up .
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I wonder if in the future there could be a charge sharing feature between similar model EVs. Like 2 male plugs and it just shares 10 miles or something. Not sure if it could work, not sure how long it'd take, but feels like a little option for the future. Edit: for clarification, I mean for if you run out of charge on the side of the road. Sorta an alternative to being towed.
Regarding why people might not want a Tesla, I used to want one until I read about California Dept. of Fair Employment suing Tesla. There’s just no way I’d buy one now.
People need to have perspective on this whole subject. Henry Ford and Thomas Edison believed electric cars were the answer, to the point where they sunk large amounts of time and money into developing the technology. But they couldn’t come up with a battery that did what was needed, and performed as well as gas. And that remains the hurdle. This is a problem people have been trying to solve for 100 years. And so far golf carts are the only place electric has won out. If everyone drives electric cars, it should improve emissions. But that cannot, and will not, be the only thing that drives their adoption. They have to be just as energy efficient, cost effective and capable as gas powered cars. It is a real shame that environmentalists are involved, turning science and technology into a political football. Countries that are planning to ban the sale of gas powered cars before electric technology is ready will end up backtracking, or destroying their economies. The solution that would most likely, ultimately work best is probably electric cars, fueled by nuclear power plants. But environmentalists have an irrational hatred of nuclear power, even though the entire system would be zero emissions at that point. Ignore the politics, improve the technology. And then everyone wins.
Not doing the destination charging thing is a huge miss to me in this discussion. Gas stations may be everywhere but you can charge EV at a hotel overnight. The talk about what to do at chargers are also good--food and bathroom at chargers are a crap shoot, especially after dinner hours.
Why can't you advocate for a standard charger for all electric cars? With a gas car 🚗 you can pull in to any gas station and get gas. We should have the same for electric cars...stop by any charging station and charge. This is important as electric cars is gonna be around for the long haul.
