That was a good video. His results are completely undeniable. I remember my Dad telling me how a lot of guys in his army company in Vietnam would pick up AK-47's because they were more affective than M-16's in thick jungle. What Iraq Veteran 8888 happened to mention was that high velocity, light weight bullets have a tendency to yaw and tumble through brush. In close quarters thick foliage, a large, slow bullet does in fact have a far better chance of hitting the intended target with sufficient energy to kill than a fast moving Spitzer bullet.
In days gone by, whitetail hunting in the heavily forested states was different than today. There were fewer deer and more underbrush. This put hunters in a dilemma...take a shot on a deer which was partly obscured or pass. A lot of those hunters were purely meat hunters and had to take the shot presented, not as they wished. Bigger and slower calibers were/are better for pushing through and making a clean kill. This is the reason that the .35 Remington and similar cartridges gained such widespread use in the Southeast and Northeastern US.
I remember reading about this subject back in the early 70s. One of the outdoor magazines had a very extensive study that showed that the flight path of any cartridge could be wild and unpredictable after hitting an obstacle no matter the caliber. They used high speed photography (!) to prove it. Their idea of a brush gun was the ease of handling in heavy brush and having a shorter barrel to avoid getting hung up. Caliber was not their main concern.
My understanding is the "brush Busting" concept is about bullet design and not caliber. The validity of the concept comes from the idea that a faster, light weight spitzer style bullet is significantly more prone to deviation than its "old school" heavy flat nose or round nose counterpart. I definitely am not a proponent of shooting through brush but I can think of scenarios where a person might consider taking a shot at an animal where the possibility of shooting through a twig or small branch is evident. This is not to say that a 45-70 or 30-30 will not deviate from its original flight path when it hits a twig but it does claim that a faster spitzer style bullet like a .308win will have exponentially more deviation and instability than your typical "lever gun" cartridge. Ryan was on to something that when you throw more speed at a moving object your reactions tend to be more violent so maybe there's something to the fact that a big heavy bullet can still deliver energy on target without the finicky nature or a being a super fast object in motion. Again not an advocate of "brush guns" and im not a physicist but I do believe that there is some validity to the claim. Iraqverteran8888 did a great video testing the "brush gun" claim that's worth checking out. Great podcast, I always tune in when Ryan is on.
flat nose, non deforming bullets can act as "cookie cutters" and shoot straight through without deviating. a flat nosed, hard cast bullet quite often can bust straight through moderate vegetation without deviating from it's flight path. experiments with dowel rods have been done. of course it helps if the bullet itself hits straight on, as a glancing blow tends to cause the bullet to deviate. but flat-nosed, non-deforming bullets can quite often fly straight through obstacles.
Brush busting never seemed to be openly advocated by anyone on RU-vid as a sound practice. Iraqveteran8888 and luckygunner bothhave done test on this subject and i find it fascinating.
Years ago, I had bought my first ( new to me ) left handed bolt action in 7mm rem mag. Had a real nice buck come into view and closing the distance. He was about 55-60 yard when the 7mm cracked. Thought for sure he was mine. After 30 minutes of frustrating lack of blood sign. Went back to where he pushed into the mud at the shot. Walked my bullets path back to my natural ground blind. And found a pinky finger sized branch a foot in front of my barrel snapped in half. I don't know if a 45-70 or 444 Marlin would have fared any better. I know it didn't do well for accuracy with a 7 mag hahaha
The brush gun idea is a perversion of understanding of why you are using the gun in a particular hunting environment. A 30-30 is a light weight, well balanced, and easy to aim rifle that works well on bramble drives. You're top range of shots in this setting is maybe 100 yards but closer to 30 yards and at a running deer so you are levering a bunch of fast semi aimed but mostly instinctual shots with brush between you and the deer. A 270 bolt rifle is impractical in this scenario because you will only get one shot at a deer in the thick brush and that gun is heavier, probably scoped, and just not fun to carry through a swamp drive. The brush gun is a real concept but only because it is a shorter ranged, light weight, well balanced, and allows for fast follow up shots. At 30 yds a 30-30 has the same energy as a 270. At 200 yds a 30-30 is a poor choice compared to a 270 bolt rifle which makes the 270 a great tree stand or valley gun.
I shot a coyote at 60 yards in thick brush while deer hunting. I hit a 6” diameter cedar tree about 10yds in front of him and it went threw the tree and killed him. Didn’t mean to do it but 430gr 45-70 is hard to redirect. That cedar tree is still splintered where the bullet went through.
I consider a brush gun to be a rifle that is compact and more easily maneuvered in thick cover. A large bullet may help but all bullet are affected when coming in contact with anything. In a snow storm a bullet can be driven off course by contact with snow flakes.
I love how all of a sudden we go from caliber talk to a dendrology class. 😂 Love it guys. I have always heard the 30-30 and 32 Winchester special mostly just lever guns as brush guns here. Some people believe some don't. I missed a whitetail at 10 yards because I hit a branch but it was like 1-1.5" diameter. Never saw it.
Had a lone branch the thickness of a pinky finger 3' in front of my 7 mag cost me a great looking 10 pointer many years ago. And there was no way to see it at the moment hammer drop. Had 60 yards to go to wherever. Now if that twig had been 3 foot in front the deer? We would talking about the nice 10 pointer I got once upon a time heh. I don't know from any experience if my 30-30, 35 Remmy or 444 could have changed the outcome of that situation.
Ive never shot anything with a scope. I hunt just nasty thick. 3030 is my go to. I did just get a 32 win special earlier this week so i am trying to tag me a blacktail with it this year. Id love to get my hands on a 45-70
I've witnessed a buck shot through a 3inch sapling tree around 100 yards away with a 45-70. Deer was 3ft behind the tree. Bullet punch a hole through the tree and dropped the buck. A brush gun in my experience is having the ability to shoot a deer through a small briar patch or through small branches on a sapling. But the animal has to be right behind the cover. Ive killed deer with a 30-30 through 2-3ft briar patches/ thickets. Im not saying shoot through pine trees but thin brush that would knock off a fast round grab a brush gun. My 350 legend will hopefully get a chance to sing soon so ill be able to speak for that one.
I know that back in the day, there were tests on ammunition around this issue. I remember a guns and ammo article where they tested bullets shooting through dowels mounted in a board. As I remember, the shorter, fatter, and more spherical a projectile, the more likely it was to remain stable enough to hit a target. A spherical black powder ball would be a good example.
Growing up in the NE and mostly hunting in woods with brush we did refer to certain firearms as "brush guns" but not using "brush busting cartridges". Brush guns were not because they would shoot thru brush. They were refereed to as brush guns because they were shorter, lighter, etc.and easier to maneuver in the brush. A classic is the Marlin 336 in 30-30. It was relatively short. It was relatively light. All we needed was a peep sight as most shots were well under 100 yards. And you could take quick follow up shots with the lever action and low recoil. I would agree that any interference in a projectiles path will alter the intended poi at least to a certain degree.
If you guys are still looking for cartridge/caliber suggestions I would like to hear about the 350 Legend and the 450 Bushmaster, since we’re talking about these types of projectiles.
Holy crap! I was just thinking about this this morning before this came up! I would argue as mentioned later in the episode, that the “Brush buster” concept has as much, if not more, to do with the firearm than the cartridge. The classic “brush cartridges” are customarily associated with short light rifles that have decent iron sights or are lightly scoped- ideal for sighting in in close confines or maneuvering around or through brush and cover. A heavy flat round that will still hit hard coming in sideways certainly helps, but almost any round fired through brush will suffer some sort of deflection or deformation.
Recalling an old article from the '90's, I don't remember which publication, that put this to a test shooting through dowel rods. The best "brush buster" was a 243 Win, all of the long for caliber, moderate velocity cartridges did "best". Big and slow or any hypervelocity round didn't fare well. Keep in mind that even the "best" rounds were very unpredictable and the practice would be very unethical. If you can't see it clearly, don't shoot.
Brush guns been around for years still busting brush in MO 30/30,45/70,450 marlin,348 just to name a few that come to mind most deer are killed at 50 yards in its thick and hilly no scope open sights
to me, brush busting is about getting through the brush the deers standing in/behind. for example, a deer standing right behind a small cedar tree. there's not enough space between the deer and the brush for a 4470 to deflect enough to miss the vitals, and the bullet won't break apart enough to not be a kill shot.
Here in Pennsylvania, a Brush Gun is considered a gun that is short, quick handling gun that you can shoot quickly at short range in thick cover. Not shoot thru the brush itself.
If "Red Dawn" were to happen in Wisconsin which gun and load would you wish you had. Has to be a true hunting rifle. No AR's. This would be a great talk on your podcast.
At least where I live in Alaska, when referring to brush buster it is a discussion about walking through the nasty brush and a big animal is now right on you. What big note will kill it as soon as possible before it kills you.
grew up in north central Wisconsin hunting in the 80's and we use so called brush busters ( 30-30, 32, 12 gauge,16 gauge, 20 gauge slug guns.) on deer drives in thick swamps and thickets. just what the old timers would call them.
Me and my buddy did a test using broom sage and what we tested is that if you shot throw was more than 10 yards from the target it didn’t matter if it was 223 or 45-70 it wouldn’t hit consistently but the 7mm mag with 140 ttsx actually hit the target most in 10 shots than anything other one we tested but still missed a 14in target 1/2 of the time. but if the target was inside of 5 yards they all hit the target almost every time in our test with broom sage. we tested 223,22-250,243,7mm-08,308,25-06,270, 30-06,7mm mag, 300 mag, 35rem and 45,70. Our bullet choices was limited we found ttsx for most everything but the 223,300mag,35rem and 45-70 and we shot what ever ells we had already for all of them I wish we would have videoed it but we wasn’t even thinking about it at the time
I've always heard it called brush gun. But they're talking about specifi type of foliage but always used the term as a short barrel fast action you would use with open sights while on a deer drive or just a walk thru the woods where you're view isn't real good.
In the last 12 months I’ve changed my approach to what I use when I go hunting. I’ve gone from a 308 with a 3x9x40 to a Marlin 444 and a lightly powered scope and the reason behind this is because most of my kills have been well with in 70 meters and mostly witj a lot of brush and woody environment. I laugh when I see someone say “Oh yeah I’ve got a brush gun.., it’s a 45/70 with a 2x10x50 scope” A brush gun can be anything with open sights or very lightly scoped rifle
Brush-busting cartridges are kinda big where I come from. Dogwood/willow sloughs are where the whitetails hang out. If you practice the old "drive-and-post" in swamp country you need a round that won't travel too far if you miss, but will absolutely cut through balm-of-gilead twigs and sh*t that get between you and the (running) deer. It's not a humane or sporting practice, but your 6.5 and 7mm rounds are not popular for this purpose. A 30-30 or even a .44 lever-gun are preferred. Again, NOT recommended. But you're shooting at running targets in heavy cover at short distances (200 yards is a long shot where I come from). Personally, I've never experienced success with this method. Waiting in a stand for the deer to come out into a hay meadow at dawn or dusk is the better strategy. But the neighbors often use ten or twenty people to "drive-and-post" and yes it is dangerous to your hunting partners. A bad, yet often effective, and inhumane way to "harvest" whitetails in heavy cover. No one I knew owned a 45-70, but that would be ideal for this purpose. Shotgun slugs were used very often.
If you are in some light brush and you shoot at a deer with a 45-70 through a bit of foliage, you're still quite likely to hit the deer. That's why you use a 405 grain bullet instead of a 55 grainer.
My personal experience has shown me that lighter bullet weight is much more likely to tumble than heavier bullets. But it still matters to pick the best shot you can get
Back in the 70's, 80's and even into the 90's, I would hunt in large groups with a bunch of people we all knew. We would always fill out the legally required "Hunting Roster" and post it where it needed to be. The limit was 25 persons, of which we usually had. The intention was to put on large drives in areas of which most people would not go. We would alternate sitters and drivers, usually with 6 to 8 persons sitting and the remainder doing the driving. Each person would bring 2 rifles with them. One was their normal rifle that they hunted with which was usually scoped (or not) and was also a nice gun. The other was their "Brush Gun". The "Brush Gun" was an old beat up lever or pump action rifle chambered in 30-30, 35 Rem, 45-70 Gov, 30-06 and the like that are chambered in the pump and lever actions. We would use the heaviest bullet loaded for these in as flat or rounded of nose as possible (example 30-06 220 Grain Round-Nose). And, none of these guns had scopes on them. The purpose being that you were going to use your nice rifle when you were a sitter and use the Brush Gun when you were a driver. The reasoning was that you did not care how much you scratched and beat up the Brush Gun (because you were going to go through the thickest areas around that no one usually went through in order to drive the deer hiding in there out to the sitters), with no scope you could obtain your target faster (if you had a shot at it), and the heavier bullets would have more knockdown power at these close ranges due to their weight and flatter nose with faster expansion. Whomever told you that these were intended to shoot through brush better is an idiot that just assumed the such! The "Brush Gun" was simply a beater that you could obtain a quick sight on the deer and a fast action to allow you to get off quick shots. And, no one cared if it was scratched, scraped or cuffed up and there was no scope to knock off sight either. This is the true definition of a "Brush Gun". I hate when people create a definition of something totally by assumption so as to look like they know what they are talking about. In the end, it makes them look like a fool!!!
I’ve never heard of it as a “Brush Busting Cartridge” but a “Brush Gun”. That’s because it’s typically a carbine style gun in whatever action it was. The lever action is most popular. It is easier to carry a short rifle through that kind of terrain. It wasn’t meant to shoot through the brush. That brings me to a story about my cousin and a big hog. He walked upon a big sow with piglets and the only thing between him that sow was a myrtle bush. He commenced to shooting and pigs ran everywhere. After I got to him we looked for blood and hair and didn’t find anything. We went back to the scene of the crime and looked at the bush he shot through. I think he hit every damn limb in that bush. He never cut a hair on that hog. I couldn’t stop laughing at how all that went down. He was shooting a .243. He couldn’t have been more than 15’ from that hog, probably not that far. So the “Brush Busting Cartridge” in my opinion is a myth. People take it out of context.
I think the light .22 bullets pushes by the 220swift and 22-250rem, are the reason this “Brush Busting” idea exists. Those early (1960-1980) cup and core .22’s would blow up on a wet soy bean leaf! So that created the myth of the opposite being true. A slow .45 can penetrate bushes!
I don't think it's about hitting a target well beyond the brush like you we're discussing at the end for a test set up. But more for when you see a deer at 50 yards and its standing maybe a couple yards inside or just past some brush.
444 Marlin with a Beartooth bullets 335gr gas check monster at over 2000 fps. Is much less affected by minute twigs and random other forest bits that may not be readily visible through the scope. Now blindly trying to blow through heavy brush is just asking for bad results.
I saw a video where a guy shot at a target at 50yds through light brush with various calibers and the so called brush busting calibers performed very well I didn't believe in brush busters until i saw this video
I realize this is an older vid but here's my 2 cents. You seem to have the notion that a hunter specifically go into the heaviest brush he can find just to see if he can kill something he is not quite sure what it is. Wrong. If you hunt in areas that are generally have heavier vegetation like the north east and south east fast small diameter bullets just veer to much. When you see a deer walking thru the woods and you say yep that will do you do not look to see where every tree, branch and bush is located. Infact you probably don't even see anything except that deer. You take your aim what for him to come out from behind that 3 ft across oak tree and pull the trigger. On your way over to start to clean him you then notice all the brush that bullet just went thru. This happens time after time in these regions. Growing up the two best brush guns were the .35 Remington and the .30-30. Round bullet slow moving. Yes they do make a difference.
I would argue that the wind could play a role into the reason why someone would want a bullet that can withstand a small obatacle such as a twig, better than another bullet. I.e its breezy and youre aming through some brush, but try as you might the branches might move as you pull the trigger. That being said, i also believe that heavier bullet might deflect less over a reasonable distance (1-75 yards) especially having a flatter bullet nose profile such as round nose, hollow point or especially hard cast semi wadcutters. Its more of a hole punch than an uncentered spearing.
You guys should do the shrub test like you did 6.5 vs .308. Also, deflection on impact is linearly related to momentum which is m*v. Let’s look at the 45-70 Hornady 325 fr FTX at 2050fps for a value of 666k. Vs the .243 Win Hornady Interlock 100gr at 2960 fps for a value of 296k. The 45-70 deflects less than half the heavy for caliber .243 at a screaming velocity. Impact Physics is all about momentum… and that’s not a layman saying. Look in your physics textbook! Good podcast. :)
Imagine yourselves in a tree-stand in a mountainous area. Sixty-five yards and downhill stands a whitetail directly behind a laurel bush. Using a .25-06, your bullet would still be cooking at roughly 2,900 FPS upon arrival. A .45-70 might roughly have a speed of 1,400 FPS. We may conclude that any .25-06 cup-and-core bullet would probably disintegrate upon impacting the laurel. The slower moving projectile may have a chance of getting to the deer. With one you probably have no chance of success; and with the other some chance. I’d opt for some chance.
I’ve heard of a brush gun, but never a brush buster. The push behind a “brush gun” is a easily handled gun that can be effective in thick woods. Your lever actions (30-30, 45-70, 444, or 35 rem) are easy handling quick shooting guns that have a fast action. Your Remington 760/7600 were considered brush guns because they are easy to handle in a carbine with an 870 feel. most of what’s considered “brush guns” shoot heavy slow bullets, so if a deer is standing in obstructing under brush, you could still punch a heavy bullet through foliage covering the vitals. The intention isn’t to just shoot through brush.
Eh sorry not a fake thing lol. Yes bullets ricochet. A 556 will deflect of a dragonfly lol. A slug less so... brush you say? 00B. It’s just simple physics. Rifle round smaller straight wall bigger. Branches deflect bullets. Not a big deal if deer is 5’ behind it but at 30 yards.... 300 grain vs 150 grain... 223 vs cannon ball... just think about it lol
I’ve shot several pigs in the woods with briars and brush in front of them with .45-70 and seemed to be unfazed by the briars and brush keep in mind you could kind of see through the briars and brush. Doing the same kind of hunting with a .300 black out ar-15 or 7.62x39 cz rifle always resulted in a miss
People always compare 250 grain 450 Bushmaster to the 300 or 350 grain in 458 socom. Compare apples to apples. 250 grain in each they are very similar but the 450 uses 45 cap bullets and the 458 uses rifle bullets. Big difference in terminal performance. Also in a single shot or bolt action the 458 socom will surpass 45-70.
the misunderstanding has always been "brush gun" ... shoots thru brush. that has always been false. the correct understanding is "brush gun" ... compact, enough power for game animals, ideal to carry in brushy (tight / close quarter) environments.
You guys definitely don’t know “brush guns”. If the opportunity comes up this is not a time to hesitate as you hunt in more open areas as you get while out west. Back East we are getting lucky if and when we get to shoot at an 80 yard shot. The longer you hesitate the shot the more brush gets in the way. It is definitely a brush gun.., 30/30, 348 Winchester, .35 , 45/70 up to 30/06, 338. Go stand in the hardwood brush of the East , try it, trust it if you don’t think there is no chance of getting hit
My "brush gun" is in the form of a 450 bushmaster scout rifle, it's application being for still hunting dense timber in mountainous terrain in Montana for bedded elk, and thick brush of the draws or creek bottoms where bear or moose are often found. At what will almost always be short distances, I'd prefer open sights to any standard type of scope, but in this case have mounted a Vortex "scout" scope to maintain a wide field of vision. When sighting in this rifle, starting at 50 yards with a 250gr FTX bullet, I inadvertently shot more than half the bullet's diameter through my fence, a 1x6 board 15 yards from the muzzle, and still managed to stay within 6 inches of my point of aim. Perhaps I should see if that's a repeatable test, but I'm confident numerous low hanging dense dry twigs in the timber aren't going to foul any hunting shots I take.
watched a video of cartridges that would not make it to the target in the brush with pointed bullets vs round nose/flat nose bullets. The cartridge/velocity isn't the main reason for bullet deflection, it's the bullet profile. The more velocity the worse the deflection, I would agree, however the low velocity would deflect less... but what's more or less? A shotgun slug makes it through some thick brush, and does the job. If your little brother shot at a longer distance, he would have probably completely missed that deer. I shot through branches but waited for a clear shot around the branches. Maybe this will help..................................ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P5dve7vAY9I.html Also had a guy say iron sights in thick brush or even at close range... and in your brothers situation in his stand.
I wonder how many hunters have been shot and killed due to this myth that flew under the radar. It the same as guys turkey hunting and hearing a call and seeing movement and just lobbing some no.4 into the bush without investigating more into what was making that noise.
There is no way to test this, but I am a believer. Would you rather have a slow heavy bullet or a high velocity pointed bullet when hunting a 3 year old clear cut? Even in heavy laurel you can see the whole deer, but you may still hit a twig. How many guys have found wood IN the deer when using a shotgun and slugs? Is it an absolute? No, but it may help that one time. Gelatin means nothing. I used to test fire my re-barrels on a bench into tied news papers or pine blocks about 4 feet away. Soft point spire bullets would go in 8-10 inches and barely blunt the point. I know what you mean with "Redbrush". I have seen it chest high but do not know what it is. It sure ain't dogwood.
As someone who hunts heavily wooded areas regularly, and actively participates in deer drives, the distance the intended target is from the potential for deflection is extremely important. If you have a longer, for woods hunting, shot that has potential deflection points anything more than single digit FEET from the intended target, you are playing with fire. I very narrowly managed to vitally my best deer after a deflection a few seasons ago because even though the shot was under 60 yards, there were beech whips between me and the deer that upon scanning afterwards I saw much more 'brush' than I initially noticed. And that was a shot I felt was relatively clear.
Brush busting is not shooting at something you cannot see which is something that irresponsible stupid hunters are prone to do. I believe that brush busting refers to shooting at something partially obscured by limbs, foliage, etc. The more dense, that is has higher mass density vs the projectile's mass, the more the deflection will be. It's like offensive vs defensive linemen. In reality with a scoped rifle one has a better chance of finding a clear path for a small, relatively higher velocity bullet through the partially obscuring vegetation than a larger bore projectile shot from an open sighted gun. That does not take away the advantages of a short, quick, easy handling rifle in areas where limbs, underbrush etc can impede your ability to make a quick shot when necessary.
Brush guns are a thing but the way you're talking about using them isn't exactly right you're not shooting into thick brush were you can't even identify the animal you're shooting at rather what you are doing is shooting a animal who is just behind a bush or sapling where you can still clearly see the whole thing and see it through the twigs and branches but there's enough twigs and branches in the way that a faster lighter bullet would be diverted much much easier than a much heavier slower bullet and if you take that same much heavier slower bullet 240 to 300 grain weight and have it be a flat nose or hollow point it will often times cut through the same small branch or twig and continue straight on what would have diverted a faster rifle round and here in Indiana Hunter most shots are inside a 100 yards with even more of those being inside 50 if you're hunting on a fence line and I have bolt guns in a variety of calibers but 8 times out of 10 I'm taking my 44 Magnum rifle if I'm in the woods or on a fence line the time when you break out your 30-06 is when you're trying to cover entire field that is bigger then the 200 to 250 yards you can comfortably push your 44 out to so brush guns have their uses and do work there are tests on RU-vid showing this and as far as rifle bullets deflecting easily let's pick on the 556 my dad's uncle was a chopper gunner in Vietnam and he said it was a constant complaint of guys over there about 5.56 rounds having problems in the thick brush and thet all the guys over there wanted guns with the heaviest bullets possible and most guys vastly preferred a M1 Garand for that type of environment
The more mass an object has, the more mass it takes to deviate that object from it's flight path. Fatter bullets get more air resistance but this is a gradual slow down. A fatter bullets are usually heavier and it's their weight that pushes them forward. Lighter bullets are deviated much more easily. So yes when shooting in dense woods, take the 45-70 not the 270, so you can make that shot through the thicket if you have to.
I shot a quartered away deer years ago at about 125 yards, hit a twig, hit the back leg, had the bullet cut her belly open and kill her. The gut pile was 10 yards from where she fell, completely intact. Don't try to shoot through trees... and no, I didn't realize there was the twig there or else I wouldn't have taken the shot
Going up we hunted whitetail using dogs. Deer on the rum is usually how they were harvested. It was a different time. And a lifestyle not a sport. We didn't call it brushbusters lol but the phrase brush gun was used. Had more to do with the length of the gun and how it handled. Auto's, lever guns, pump ceneterfire ... short and fast were more important than caliber.
This is why a 45-70 government round like the Lehigh ultimate penetrator which is one of only several rounds that are able to penetrate bullet proof vests!! Unless you want to say the RU-vid videos that proved this are not real!!
There was an article about this subject with actual tests, shooting through brush. This article was many years. Ago,maybe the 70s.. the results where , that the longer more stable the bullet the better. The 65 x55 won the competition
Just a thought, if you shoot a high speed round in water the bullet usually breaks up but a big slow round tends to stay together. Being slower also allows it to "push" through with less deflection than a lighter round moving much faster. But I tend to agree with other commenters that it was more about the gun then the projectile.
The thinking that I've heard with brush buster cartridges is the bullet shape more than anything. Especially since the 30-30 and 45-70 were considered fast when they were originally created, so they weren't developed for this thought of busting brush. But a flatter front surface with minimal ogive in theory deflects less than something found in more modern bullet design such as the 6.5mm 143gr eld. Think throwing a football at shallow angle against a window. Football is going to deflect. Do the same with a brick and the window is going to break and the brick will likely end up inside.
p=mv. Momentum is equal to mass times velocity. In the world of bullets this tends to favor the heavier bullets more than the high velocity ones. IMO if you are hunting the thick stuff, a brush gun is good in case you accidentally hit a twig you didn't see. It will give you a better chance of a good hit.
In my region which is usually heavy brush and vegetation, my dad always told me a 30-30 is the best rifle to have. I have successfully shot many deer with a 30-30. Two years ago I was introduced to a 35 Remington. It is impressive! It is shooting about 2,300 fps with a 200 gr bullet. At 100 yds it shot a 1" group. I fell in love with the sexy sounding rifles. My 2 biggest bucks I harvested was with my 270. However, both bucks ran a ways. I had good hits but i kinda felt the bullet was moving to fast at the close range. So, there is really something to be said about these slower, heavier moving bullets. The deer I've taken with my 30-30 have dropped instantly. Just my limited experience. Take what you will.
12 gauge slug at 12 1300 fps works best I've found for thick brush, hits close to aim every shot. It does matter the heft of bullet . Light fast isn't good in thick
