The point of "tamper evident" is that you can easily tell if someone unauthorised has opened it, so the lock being difficult to pick is relevant, because that wouldn't leave any clear signs.
From a 5 year banker and teller manager, LPL was spot on in this bag's design. He was also 100% correct that most businesses are moving to disposable, tamper-evident plastic bags. In all my time, I had maybe one client using this security bag, and it was a pain, since we had to keep the key provided to us by the business and fill out specific logs whenever we needed it.
@@anyGould I was thinking the same thing, these may be more or a pain in the ass, but I know of some that have been used two or three days a week, for the better part of a decade. The plastic are, for obvious reasons, single-use only. And if you muck up filling or sealing them, less than that.
@@notfeedynotlazy is two giggles worth unlocking all the doors? Quite a conundrum.... Especially after you pay for the experience? so full escape room experience or 2 giggles which will it be? It would be funny only paying for 2 giggles.
@@_wanted_outlaw3007 I'm paying to have fun, not to have an "experience". If I pay to have fun, I will have my goddamn fun however I wish, thankyouverymuch ;-) if they want me to do it a specific way and not the way I find funny, THEY should be paying me. Now, where did that mike go after being dropped? Those things are expensive, mind you.
My wife says that the best feature of these bags is the heavy lock on the bag. If somebody comes up to her and tries to steal the bag she can swing it and knock their lights out.
100% agree on the switch to plastic bags. A former employer had one person doing the deposits for years in a zipper bank bag. Wouldn't you know it, she was taking a little here and there, fudging the slips, and went unnoticed for a decade.
@@johnnyjohnson6643 She was the one filling the bag, and simply did not write the full amount on the deposit slip, shorting every drop, or altering the slip in the bag to a lower number.
They are not as easy as luggage. The zipper has better interlocks (when fairly new) making it a pain sometimes to get the zipper closed. Also, that would be evident tampering, which is what the bag is designed to show.
Except it will be visible to the trained eye because opening a zipper in that way does bend and warp the zipper track in an abnormal manner, such that someone who knew what to look for could tell it had been tampered with
While watching this video I saw a couple of paper clips on the table, so I decided to try to pick my bike lock. Got it open in a couple of minutes, and soon found a way to pick it in seconds. Then I tried a padlock I have used. That was even easier: It was enough to push all the pins down. I knew these were cheap locks but holy crap I didn't know they are that bad lol.
I worked in financial services for a bunch of years starting just a bit over 10 years ago. We NEVER used these kinds of bank bags, and the banks never bothered either. We used exclusively adhesive sealed plastic bags that were tamper evident. It was impossible to beat the adhesive once it stuck to the plastic of the bag, and as a result, the only way in was to either tear the bag (very obvious damage), or cut it, which again, is obvious. And the point was very much that: Was it tampered with? Once we handed over to Brinks, it was in their custody. They'd verify the state of each bag, and if anything happened between us and the bank (more specifically, the deposit processor), it was on Brinks. The system worked just fine. In 4 years, the only problems I ever had was if a bag was static-y and caused the seal to stick prematurely. Which obvious just meant grab a new bag. I couldn't imagine trusting any type of negotiable (be it cash or check/cheque, don't hate, I'm Canadian) to a crappy canvas-like bag like this.
As I was a banker for 42 years, I can tell you that these are the easiest to pick. Customers came in all the time forgetting their keys or something. I used to take a paperclip and pick them in 1 min or less. Thanks for these fun vids.
As a banker, weren't you supposed to *not* let them get their deposit without the key? I would change the bank immediately if I knew that one of the security features can be bypassed just like that.
"Sorry, I can't do this without a- Oh, what's that, boss? I'm fired for wasting a rich client's time? At least I made Michal D feel safe that one of our daily bypassed security features wasn't bypassed by at least one underpaid employee."
I remember closing shop and depositing the money when I was a regular summer temp 10+ years ago. We were using one-time sealable plastic bags already then. You would put the money in the bag, fill out a special paper slip and put it on top of the stack of money so it was visible through the plastic. The plastic bags themselves were fairly heavy-duty and resisted tearing (the plastic would stretch instead), and they had some kind of color pattern built into the plastic itself. Once sealed, they were pretty difficult to open. Without using some kind of blade, I bet they would take longer to open than this lock. Forgot to put in the paper slip a couple of times and had to get a new bag, so that's how I know.
I haven't seen one of these used in decades. I worked in retail and we used these back in the '80s for our daily deposit, but by the mid to late 90s we stopped in favor of plastic courier bags with an adhesive strip. We'd mark a few details on the bag exterior with a sharpie. You could get into it with your teeth but all we cared about was tamper evidence.
I bought a high-value jewellery item for my wife a while ago, and it arrived in a tamper evident bag with all sorts of interesting features. Amazing piece of kit.
@@eravar2831 if I remember reading comments correctly somebody on this channel in a video that I cannot remember said he had something to do with Bethesda although I kind of doubt that, also WTF is litigation
With the time i spent working for an armored currier, 99% of bags are the plastic tamper evident disposable bags. There were some super wonky night drop deposit type stations that had huge versions of these cloth bags with a sliding plastic door to seal it that i dealt with more than these little deposit bags. The clear plastic bags also have the advantage of being able to roughly confirm the value of what you are signing for, so you dont accidently break your carry limits and carry 400k in one bag when youre not supposed to, dunno who would do that.
I used to work at a bank. I remember on my first day the manager was showing me around. In one room there was a row of drawers with really cheap locks on them, and I almost told him how quickly I knew I could pick them. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut about skills you have 🙊
How did you pick it bro I’m starting to pick locks for fun and I got this bag and the money 7120D bag too I can’t pick it man how did you pick them did you need to use key weight tension
Today I would like to tell you guys, that for the first time in my life watching youtube videos has helped me so much in real life. My friend lost his key to front doors. Luckily it was a second lock in his doors that he doesnt usually lock. But the owner of the home forbid him to remove the lock with missing key by the force and so i went there with my fun package biught from amazon with some picks in it and i managed to open and remove the lock from the doors. Incredible feeling, only by watching LPL you can learn alot!!
Is it actually good security to have "SEVEN PIN TUMBLER" right next to the lock? Isn't that just giving any potential picker a clue as to what they're in for?
This video and some of the comments bring to mind something I'll share: I used to work for a machine/software company, so worked on various Point Of Sale/Cash Registers, ATMs, and other processing systems in stores and banks. It was common there was cash, cheques and other "interesting" things everywhere. You had to learn to just know that none of it was yours, and fully hands-off, and if not, welcome to unemployment and probably jail etc. So the bag in this vid: no matter whats inside, if your job was to carry it somewhere intact, it could have been made of paper and it would be as secure. Because the rule is about hands-off.
You are right. A lot of people making comments do not know the purpose of this type of bag. All they think about is how to get into the bag. It's made to carry your cash. Why would you want to steal your cash?
I suspect the reason banks are moving to plastic with adhesive closures has less to do with the fear of competent pickers and more to do with _cheapness._
On what basis? if someone wants something open badly enough, it WILL eventually be opened, so instead of spending more and more to keep things unreliably in, it’d be more efficient to know if and when something was taken out. Cost effectiveness isn’t necessarily being cheap and having a less beefy lock doesn’t automatically make it less secure said, as LPL that isn’t really their job
These types of bags are used for classified documents in the US Govt. The whole idea is that the courier leaves his location and performs a non-stop transport of the bag. Obviously a knife into the bag would warrent inquiry from a competent watchstander. It's still a little disappointing to see the lock itself picked in under a minute by a skilled lock-picker.
Nice comment about what security that bag is intended to provide! It's the kind of useful nuance a lot of discourse (in many fields) is lacking nowadays.
I have argued this point to so many people. The reality that many "locks" are just proof of non-validated access not access prevention in anyway. Having an obvious/documented chain of custody is more valuable than a lock that would require more damage to value than the item being stolen. More and more they seem to be coming around to the reality that just letting them take it, is better than even trying to stop it.
Nice one as always, definitely just meant as a "short term buffer" for staff to go from point a to b and drop it at the bank or vice versa. I do have to say as well, got a set of the Genesis picks, and they're awesome-- but I've noticed the thin short pick can be bent really easily (including straight backwards when trying to set binding pins, not just side to side) and it's difficult to get it formed back to a usable straightness-- I've gotten it formed back straight (mostly), but the metal just seems a little too soft/ flexible on the really thin pick. Obviously developing picking skills will further garner the necessary pressure and touch tactility application (I can open generic/ widespread use locks fairly quickly), just something I wanted to point out, new users/ pickers need to be very careful as not to bend/ warp the thinner picks.
Good Morning from Aus LPL. i recently purchased a CC and was going through the shed at my grandparents place for old locks to test and i found two Sidchrome Padlocks. i thought they might be an interesting lock to feature on your channel as one more about the history of locks then the actual skill needed to pick them. (i have yet to try them myself and didn't want to attempt them before learning if they are rare and/or valuable). in other news, i've racked open 3 Lockwood brand locks from the same stash that i found.
Some UK banks use heavy leather bags with an Abloy disc detainer cam lock (which locks together a pair of heavy steel half loops that are hinged). Still not fully knife proof, but significantly more pick resistance.
Well before my lawyering days, and even before my days as a property manager when I had to play with locks on a regular basis, I worked at a bank and I was successful in opening one of these bags with very rudimentary tools when keys were lost. Pretty standard stuff, really.
We use one of these at work at both of the locations I work at. We have these "games of skill" machines (think: digital slot machines), and this bag (or one very similar to it, same kind of lock) is placed in a locked cabinet behind the counter, and the bag contains payout money and payout slips for those GoS machines. To get to this bag, a customer (or unauthorized employee) would have to 1). get behind the counter, 2). somehow open the cabinet at one location, or a drop safe at the other location, 3). get the bag out, 4). cut or pick the lock, to get to the contents. All of this would be recorded on camera. The bag, while not too terribly difficult to defeat, does its job amazingly well. No unauthorized persons have ever touched it, because everybody knows they're on camera, and the only ones authorized to open the bag are managers or the boss, and they are the only ones who have a key to the bag. Also, of note, the bag is designed in such a way that you cannot remove the key while the lock is open. I would liked to have seen LPL take the lock apart to show us how that works.
I was surprised when it went to 5 pins, but 6 and 7 made me think that somebody at least tried to make it better than a drawstring sack and a handshake.
The only time I used these was to make bank deposit drops for the retail store I managed. Still, it felt better carrying the money in the bag than in an envelope.
As the ships locksmith and also an Intel guy, I carry bags like this a lot. People misunderstand their purpose, and you hit the nail on the head. Even when it comes to TS/SCI material the whole point is tamper evident custody transfer until it can be placed in the appropriate class 6 GSA container.
As a courier, I'd have the key with me too. The whole point was to be a trusted party and make a non-stop transport where the delivery times and locations were known to both the sender and receiver. Ultimately, it's the transporter that is really the 'security system,' the bag is hardened just enough so nobody can claim accidental spillage.
Still have a few of the old bags the banks used to give, which are cloth with a logo printed on them. They make nice small bags for things, but, as they do not have any method to close them, are not secure at all. The plastic bags now are tamper evident, as they normally come with a serialised cable tie you use to close it, or some come with a plastic zipper than has a numbered tag you use to seal the zip, the number written down on the deposit book inside the bag. Used with a night deposit ATM, though most banks now have gone away from that to using cash accepting ATM in the lobbies, where you do not even need a card to deposit into the account. Bit of a pain though, as you will find at 6PM that all these machines will no longer accept cash, as they have all received the business deposits from the local shops. Go there 7AM and you can deposit again, as they will have had enough cash withdrawn during the evening. You often see a person going from one to the other, depositing 500 notes at a time, till all are full, and they have to go to the next bank centre to carry on.
Also, cash deposit ATMs don't provide detection of embezzlement by the last shift in the shop, unlike sealed bags that are tied to the customer account and are opened on CCTV by bank tellers.
This bag is similar to the bags they use at my hospital for transporting controlled drugs. They don't need keys, but they have a zip which when unzipped cracks in half a plastic tab, that has a code on it, which is 'ubique' and also printed on the paper work. Technically it's super easy to open, but it's reusable (only needing the plastic tabs replaced each time) and you can't put it back together after opening, since the tab is now in two pieces. Cool to see they used to do a similar thing with money at banks.
At my job, about 10 years ago we switched to plastic bags. Imo much more "secure" in that in you try to peal the adhesive it leaves a big warning that says someone tried to do so, and cutting it just leaves evidence of cutting. There no way to open bag without evidence of tamper
We still use these bags at my work for sending money or other high value items through our internal mail between office buildings. They are a bit like bicycle padlocks: designed to keep people honest, not to prevent outright theft.
As a school job I was a bellhop (and later a night auditor) at a hotel. I used to deliver these from the accounting office of the hotel to the bank down the street. (Picking them never crossed my mind.)
Yeah the store I worked for always used the Plastic use once tamper bags. There truly was no reopening those bags once the seal was made short of a knife or scissors. So from a tamper perspective a lot more useful than a cloth bag. Though from an environment standpoint, I prefer the canvis bag. As all of the time we would always take the bag in ourselves and it would be obvious who stole what as we also logged the event. So could have used any bag for this as the tamper proof part was sort of moot.
I just started watching your videos about 3 weeks ago. I also listened to your keynote presentation at SaintCon, which I enjoyed very much. I do have a quick question for you. Have you ever considered designing your own padlock, thus eliminating all of the known weaknesses that you routinely exploit? Have you been approached by or considered partnering with an established lock manufacturer? It seems to me you could revolutionize the lock industry for the betterment of all. Just a thought. Thank you.
When I turned 18 my mom left me and my older brother the apartment we lived in and she got her own, I set up a very basic alarm for my room (I used a code to shut off) my brother laughed because he didn't understand that even if it didn't alert police it would still show that he had gone in.
@@LeifNelandDk 😂😂😂 my brother wouldn't be stupid enough to get into my shit because he knows I'm crazy and I have lots of things that can really hurt him. The alarm was more to help him understand that he could never get away with getting in my shit
"Moving to tamper evident plastic bags"... that was certainly the case when I last worked at a bank... 30 years ago. I'm surprised someone found the bag you had at this point.
I just can't seem to get consistent, stable pressure with a regular torsion wrench when picking moneybags. I always have to use a Y wrench. The Y wrench works really well on those Chinese smiley locks as well though, so it was worth the investment.
I worked with bags similar to this but instead of a lock it had a metal hole where you put a numbered plastic seal holding the zipper. If the seal is broken or replaced the recipient can notice the damage or note that the number does not match what was expected. Even if the seal gets replaced with one with falsified number, you would need time to replicate the correct number and maybe that wasn't feasible on time for deliver. I think is less complicated than a lock and in most cases would better expose the tampering.
I'd imagine you could also attack the zipper directly by pushing a pen or something through it. It would be pretty evident that someone had tampered with it, but it would be non-destructive, and someone would have plausible deniability that it was a faulty zipper.
My girlfriend works at a bank and the bags they use now are clear plastic with an integrated zip tie type closure and they have 12 digit ID numbers on them
This seems to be in the same family as evidence bags, where you want to be sure you know that that the bag hasn't been tampered with in transit, all the while facilitating opening and re-closure with accountability.
In my experience, the biggest vulnerability with these bank bags (or even the new, wasteful, single-use plastic ones) is the human factor. Your employee could fudge your books and skim before assembling the deposit. Your employee could be dumb and always make the deposit at the same time of day, and carry the bag in plain view to show nefarious people that they have a big amount of money they likely won't fight for. (Unless they own the store) Or your employee could be MONUMENTALLY dumb and fall for the scam I heard about where someone put a sign on the night drop "Out of order, please use bucket below".
The protection against that is to detect fudging the books or deposit amount reported by bank not matching the (not fudged) books. One remaining trick is to lie about getting mugged on the way to the bank.
![[1391] MMF Bank Deposit Bag Picked (7 Pins!)](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
