As a Terran player here is a rundown of what happened. Game 1: Failed cheese. Game 2: Poor timing attack, if your ever end facing that kind of army on a timing attack you fall back... try to clear creep and go for multi prone harassment. Game 3: A lot of people think that TY lost cause Nidus+ Swarmhost are op... they hard to deal with as Mech terran but.. here is what actually happened... TY tried to go for a heavy hellion harass opening and what is the counter to hellions? yeah , that's right roaches, TY tried to go for an standard hellion into mech opener and got hard countered by Dark's roaches. If you look at the worker count during game 3 the difference was not that big, the terran actually has a fair chance to beat Zerg since Zerg are supposed to be ahead in workers cause of the way they work, problem is that TY was not mining when he was dealing with the Roach/Ravager pressure early so there was a HUGE income difference. Game 4: Was actually the only good game from this series that a Terran would enjoy to watch, he did what a Terran is supposed to do to fight Zerg to put it simply fight back creep spread and multi prone harassment. So what went wrong? One of the key things late game that can win you the game as a Terran when both economies are around the same(late game) is production and unit composition. At around 21:12 we can see that TY has more than enough resources to get at least 2 more barracks and try to keep up with Zerg production, fast forward a few minutes you can see that TY get's to bank around 2k minerals when the Zerg just has 120 and at this time, economy at this point is heavily favoring the Terran player(not cause of the 2 worker difference but cause of mules), all TY had to do at this point was to be able to go even on engagements(since he had a decent unit comp)+ to be able to reinforce almost as fast as Zerg, keep up the pressure and is an easy win from there. Not easy to accomplish but is something that any pro player could have done from that point on, if I had to bet who was going to win game 4 and around the 21 minute mark I would always favor the Terran player when things were shaping up they way they were. On a final note: I think that queens need a small hp nerf and maybe an upgrade to make them more relevant late game. All you had to do as Zerg in order to be safe against several openers is just to make at least 6-7 queens.
Blizzard logic "Raven AoE dmg for energy too strong must nerf." Also Blizzard logic "Infestor too weak must buff same mechanic." Ok so give ravens back the missile and perfect balance as all things should be.
Blizzard thought it was unfair for Zerg and Protoss to have to learn how to split their units and actually have to micro their stuff instead of just a-moving that’s why they took out Raven AoE
@@BrownCaterpillar Raven AoE is literally worse than the current fungal/neural. Terran's definitely need better spells on the raven, but HS missile is too broken.
@@BroodKingEXE Definitely, you don't just win game with only spell casters. I mean sure, Infestors are broken, but you need GGlord with them. While back then, Terran literally made Raven and nothing else but SCVs.
Terran building such as barracks can deploy on battlefield and used for offensive wall against zerglings/banelings Barracks just cost 3 marines, but can shape the battlefield instantly and reduce the speedness of zerg. Air support are under exploited, TY just send few dropship then 2 liberators alone. No banshee, no vessel., no BC Most terran use air units for scouting, and trading for 2-3 drones. Bunker should be spread everywhere, in strategic corner, and used from the start to the end of the game. Not only for rush strategy. So yes, terran meta should be redesigned.
@@neothypp errr... Zerg can remax instantly. Just need the hatchery for all units. Don't need to micro buildings. Hell, dont need to micro much at all. Just max out and attack.
@@nahshondaniel5824 I mean terran can micro building by lifting them during fight to make a wall, to cover their tank for example Before a siege against zerg, you put 2 barracks front line, tanks behind covered by marines and zerg at midgame cant pass easy (when they have mutas, its of course a different story) Sorry if you dont see what I mean, I dont have example for that since none terran pro does that Yes zerg insta produce with hatchery. Thats why trading for terran is not efficient. When i see a liberator solo backdoor and killing 2 drones then dies, its not efficient, not in 2019. Terran make more time to produce, each unit is expensive not only by economic cost, but also time cost of production. So terran has to switch to trade buildings (bunker and barracks) for zerg units.
@@neothypp i get what you're saying. But if you look at how heavily strained Terran players are when it comes to having to micro. It's near impossible to do what you're suggesting. That's why pro players just don't do it. Its just not possible. Playing Terran at the highest level takes someone special with the amount of micro required just to stay alive.
Dark is great, but he didn't 4/0 TY. Zerg did. It's hard to know exactly what to change to balance things out, but it's been pretty clear for a while now that zerg is a little too powerful. It's too easy for zerg to transition on a dime from defense to offense, and getting good surrounds with ling/bling and then a-moving isn't nearly as difficult as the careful positioning and precise kiting that Terran is forced to do to have any chance. I think Terran should have a widow mine upgrade that makes them explode on death with the same intensity as their normal missile. This would at least force the zerg to split more and hesitate a bit before a-moving into Terrans.
Oh my god .. dark so good . he selects his army and a-moves it in and boom!! .. so good .. terran has it easy .. just has to cloak the ghosts, stimm je army, split the medivacs, split the marines, move the marauders forward, micro the marines back, scan for the winfestors, target them down, burrow the mines, target the banes one by one .. and wait twice as log to max out again. Don't really understand why zerg wins this?? :)
Terran should get a new building to counter creep like underground wall that can be destroyed but can hold back creep. Protoss could have a building that acts like radar that zones a safe space.. not sure if this would help though.
I just don't understand why people would prefer orbitals over planetaries at far out expansion. Defended expansion and mining is better than mules with no mining.
I think TY's last game was very meaningful. He probably knew he wouldn't win even one game, especially with the style of play he was going to use. He was there to reveal how uniquely impossible the game is against a Zerg in the hands of a top-tier pro gamer. Any late game tech has a hard counter, so he went basic tech and had to face late game Zerg solutions to break any micro and macro advantage he has. Remmeber, Zerg requirement to micro is almost nil; it's all about mass production. TY has shown it is not possible for Terran to win against Zerg if the Zerg player is top-tier. They have too many options from beginning to end. I think bigger units (incld Protoss units) should have shorter Neuro-parasite duration like 2-3 secs. It not only makes sense, it would encourage better gameplay.
Terran highest peak is midgame, not because his units sucks lategame, but because his capacity of production dont scale well. When a zerg lategame lost his army, he can instantly produce and spend his 2k mineral. When a terran lategame lost his army, he has to queue produce. So mechanically, terran cant compete multiple big trading. The only key for terran is to contain zerg economic expansion.
neothypp I’ve read a bunch of your comments and it’s painstakingly obvious you’re a zerg who just really loves the current patch. I can see through all you explanations of how to deal with certain situations against zerg, and it’s disgusting how you so nonchalantly talk about how you can easily outmaneuver a zerg as long as you have bonjwa level macro, micro, split second decision making, and some idiotic strategy about making barrack walls in the battlefield to win an engagement! At what point in game 4 did you feel that the terran was at comfortable economy to be making additional fodder barracks in the middle of the map? There is a reason unlike protoss terrans keep their buildings in place because terrans need a single rally point. The only time it could be optimal to do your stupid self proposed strategy is when a terran is already ahead in economy in which why do you need additional barracks that will take ages for you to send over to the battlefield, because putting them in defense is pointless because that’s what the supply depots are for. What you’re saying literally sounds like if zerg didn’t have Vipers and Infestors in the game, and you guys were complainingabout how it’s impossible to break a mech line of tanks, thors, and liberators, andI act like a expert by saying that to break a line like that simply requires you to have amazing micro of being able to split your lings affectively everytime a tank will fire and that a great strategy to prevent that will be to build hatcheries around the enemy because you can attack from all angles when you remax. See how stupid it sounds? And finally in one of your comments you stated that terran only peak at midgame and that you almost say it’s natural that zerg should have a much stronger late game? At what point in most pro games are the terrans so overpowered in midgame that has ever been evident for us? Yes it’s true terran has an advantage in mid game, but it’s not at a point where they are wreaking force. And it’s sad that you can even spew that since they have a slight advantage in midgame it’s completely ok for us to have such a strong unit comp. and what pisses me off the most is that I’m defending fucking terran when I play toss. It’s just so sad to see I’ve come to this because of your stupid comments.
@@bayasgalantsogtgerel3346 Dude you should read Lidl Hart, britain strategist. Or play Britain for ce in Company of heroes 2 You will understand my strategy. If terran keep fighting frontline against zerg, it requires huge micro for lasting. That is not efficient. Zerg just a-move. The goal for terran is to micro less, or smarter. building can absorb banelings, (13 baneling for 1 barracks) containing zergling movement. Barracks has 1000 hp, can be lifted for saving and repairing later. Of course you can prepare the field first and not only during fight. You dont have to micro building during the fight if done properly. And i repeat, Barrack cost only 3 marines. Bunker, supply, turret, barracks, enginering bay (cheaper than barrack and can be used both wall and upgrade), you have panel of different building depending the map and your composition. Zerg and protoss dont have that. For the multidrop, Terran should A-drop more often, Scan first and drop few marines in key locations. Dont mind if they die, just save the medivack. Add additionnal force (drop or air support) if necessarly (BCs, liberator, banshee, vikings lifting) At the same moment, keep building at key map locations to shape the battlefield and reinforce defense. The goal is to reverse pressure on zerg, and when big fight happens, you play defensively, even near their base. If you loose this fight, most damage are absorbed by building, so it won't cost your unit production.
@@neothypp That's a Starcraft 1 strategy. You could create building buffers in the middle of the map as Terran. That doesnt work in SC2. Swarmhosts, Ravagers, Banelings, Etc quickly erase forward fortifications. Progamers instead op for units and mobility instead of static forward defense because the zerg can simply walk around or Nydus behind your expensive and subsequently useless fortification.
@@kabbymaster You dont get the point. It is partially starcraft 1. Terran dont have to allocate all his army on the same location. all the terran army is not "holding position" at the advanced post. On one side Terran will have a semi-static army (which is composed of tanks and marines, bunker and barracks) The defense is mobile since barracks can lift , bunker can recycle. on the other side Terran will have mobile army composed of marine mediv, vikings banshee for dropping and cutting zerg pathway. Last but not least, Terran has sensor tower, scan and patrol vikings/vulture. So Terran knows more the map situation than zerg does. It is a mix, a combination of static and mobile force. And everything is mobile.
Out of the TOP 6 PLAYERS in the world... 5/6 are Zerg.... Seriously, Blizzard???? Seriously???? ...and they are getting buffed in the next patch...wtf....
@@nicholaskrassin7571 LOWKO and BeastyQT do a good job of breaking it down. It's so ridiculous it's infuriating. They act like they nerfed neural parasite range, but they nerfed the range of liberators and tempests, so...it's not a Nerf if you nerf everything else too. Oh, oh...and now they don't even have to research neural, it comes free.
Where are you getting 5/6 top players are zerg? Zerg does look a bit op right now, especially in late game, but this claim is a stretch. Serral and Dark are looking like the top 2 right now, after that its a bit tough to call. Trap/Classic/Maru are 2/3/4 in terms of Korea WCS points, and we have just as many protoss players as zerg players heading to blizzcon right now. Reynor/Soo/Rogue are good, but I don't think they're clearly top 6, and elite zerg players fall off pretty heavily after this. Also don't put too much stock in to an experimental balance patch that is trying a million things at once. Most of it won't get through, the patch is mostly meaningless at this point.
Hopefully, after this tournament, nobody will say zerg is weak in early and middle game. If Maru play 4th game, he has more chance than TY to win in this heavy macro game.
Yeah after seeing a proxy 2 rax right in the middle on the overlord path and a VERY WELL executed 2-1-1 we can safely say now that zerg is OP in every aspect of the game
Blizzard isintentionally abandoning this game, because they are not making any $$$ more with free2play title. That’s not good for shareholders LOL Blizzard want U to play game as service like WoW classics which you have to play 15$ a month, now they say there are 2Mio. Active SC2 players every ladder season worldwide plus some who is not playing ladder, that’s at least 30Mio every month that Blizzard is not making but want to make.
Nerf terrans. The micro advantage they have because they can click faster is so unfair for zerg. Make it so that for every single order they give, they should click twice. That would bring down their speed to more manageable levels . Please we zerg players would like to also take a nap before ending a game.
The balance in starcraft 2 is a mockery. Free units have destroyed this game, Teran must be forced to attack and defend twice as much as other races. Zerg has the answer to everything and protos. Why a nuke terran if it's not used anyway? Why zerg ultralisk or hydra like swarm hosts or fangals are OP skills. For me, you can immediately remove Terran from the game because it is a lower class than the others. Without any chances anyone would be terran without anyone winning. In this arrangement it is a dead game ...
Game 4 you can see why they say TY's mech is better than his bio. If his harassment had been with hellions, he would probably kill drones more quickly, be more gas-efficient and generally trade with lings better. But then again he was ahead economically for the most part so who knows.
The fact that terran account is high (2000 mineral peak) is a big problem and he does not know how to spend with. Zerg can accumulate. If his army is destroyed, he can spend all the 2000 mineral instantly. Terran can't, unless you have huge amount of buildings. TY should have spend his economy on air upgrade so he may switch to air composition or mecha whenever he wants. The huge economy he had could provide him flexibility on strategy. But he just ignores that. His money management cost him the lategame.
@@neothypp yeah he was hovering at 2k minerals and no gas for long periods. I think he should have replaced mines with marines for harass. But i disagree with the him upgrading mech. In a game where they are constantly trading resources become crucial, so terran cannot max out other upgrades and also build more production facilities to switch tech.
In which league are you, if you are below master, it's stupid to say that mate, zerg are strong but not op, this concern just 0,1% of player, if you are gold, it's useless
Zerg needs buff. Increase to 4 zerglings per egg plz and get one free zergling for each roach, muta or hydra purchase - you know - the McDonalds Value Meal model.
blizzard design terran assume everyone has 300 apm or above and engage battle in great position and micro properly. That's why terran sucks in late game because none of these happen at the same time in late game
@@jonathaneastman3d Don't try to hijack somones post. Go make your own whiny asss bitch post. You didn't even attempt to answer the question. Go back to your fake news job at CNN.
@@jonathaneastman3d " oh no zergs are really good at the moment!....... must be because of balance because I LIKE maru and stats too much for them to lose!" -----------------this is you this is what you sound like, go whine else where, oh yeah and i'm a T player so LOL to your zerg hate, TYTY is my Favorite of all time but cant deny Dark's just a league above currently
Remember a few months ago when Dark got crushed by Elazer, of all people? And then the best Terran in the world couldn't take a game off him? Yeah Zerg isn't OP at all.
The GSL has it's own meta, dark has always been known to do well in GSL but not as much in foreign tournaments. Furthermore, everyone has their strong and weak match ups. Even Serral looks mortal in ZvZs vs Reynor.
All people complaining on zerg an making their point on pro tournament lol. This is so brainless, pro game don't reflect a meta or wathever. I didn't say zerg is not op etc. But a zerg pro player winning a tournament (and other) don't prove anything. The world of pro-players is not our mortal meta-game.
Summary. Ty got his ass handed to him from the 1st game. He lost the first game to 3 drones. Note no infested terran or neural parasites were used in any game of this series. Dark won the Gsl this season and this super tournament from being the best sc2 player in Korea this year. Congratulations to him. Well earned.
If only if it were as simple as you're attempting to portray it. What level player are you? Yeah, Dark did great, he's an amazing player but you have to say that's quite an oversimplification.
If the meta favors Zerg late game it's a lot easier for dark to prepare for early aggression, that being said he is one of the best at this so props to his Championship.
@@cb2radio349 Did you watch all 4 games? I did. My player level has zero correlation to this best of 7 game final. Stick to the subject or piss off troll.
@@straycatnip Yeah, I did. Why wouldn't it have correlation? The thought is that that's a really narrow opinion and at best a great oversimplification. The only reasonable assumption I can come to is that you're probably a lower player, and in response you say "or piss off troll". Obviously you can't handle opposing opinions so I'll let you be. Have a good one.
Hopefully Zerg gets buffed so we can have some more interesting games. However, Zerg won 0 GSL titles in 2016, 2017 and 2018, so let them have this year without too much griping.
@@kollerjon Regardless of the state of Zerg it's hard to say Serral or Reynor wouldn't have one of the majority of WCS titles. They are definitely the strongest players on the circuit.
Dark destroyed TY, and no Broodlord/Infestor combo was needed. But people still say that Zerg are OP, nerf ling/bane, nerf roach/ravager, nerf queens, nerf creep, nerf drones, nerf everything because Zerg players are OP and the others can't beat them, even when they play ling/bane. Serral and Dark are way above the rest right now, and it's not because of the race.
@@anotherterranplayer7209 Like when he played against TY in GSL vs The World and kicked his ass. Serral will probably take BlizzCon this year too, I can't see anyone being able to beat him the way he is playing right now.
@@nolanchristensen7214 Infestors are broken, not the entire race. Dark didn't need them to win, TY played very poorly in this series, even if it was a best of 20, Dark would have won without losing a single map.
Banelings need 1/4 weapon damage friendly-fire or should cost an additional 1 supply upon morph. Ravager Corrosive Bile spell damage must be down-scaled 1/2 to 3/4, with compensatory anti-armor debuffs applied to enemy units caught in a larger upgradable spell radius. Infestor spells should only affect ground units, while Abduct is dialed back into a spell which pulls 1-3 of the nearest non-massive enemy units towards the Viper with upgradable variance. EMP and Psionic Storm should also clear Blinding Cloud.
저그 버프가 우승한 거지 무 감 타 땅굴 너프해야 된다 아니면 프로토스도 다크아콘 주던가 타락귀도 너프해야지 미친 몸빵에 중장갑 딜도 좋고 건물도 일점사로 부수고 미쳤지 공대공 유닛이 건물까지 부순다 무리군주 군단숙주 공생충 자원도 안 들고 말 그대로 공짜 유닛으로 패널티 1도 없이 상대방 비싼 가스유닛이랑 건물이랑 교환하는데 사기지
@@Obladesque Remember when the stadium was packed with people, defeaning cheer, casters needing to shout. All those leagues are now dead, it's just a small studio not packed to celebrate the GSL finals
see how crazy zerg can snowball easily bcos of just that one failed push in game 2? 8k views grand finals? not even 5 digits? This game is dead thanks to dumb blizzard obeying their activision masters, profit 1st b4 those gamers we already sold our game to them via dvd or digital a decade ago, while we still earn in europe tournaments why bother the player base!!!!
Please change brood lords god dam no cost attack skill. I feel always disgusting when they attack tarran and protoss. Hey zerg sucker do you think zerg won the match by players self ability? Well from my view, blizzard just gave award to zerg
![[2019 GSL ST S2] Grand Finals Dark vs TY (Part2)](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
