**NOTES &CORRECTIONS** - Pilz on discord pointed out to me that I failed to make somethings about the Theory of Forms clear and that it may lead to some misunderstandings. I'll address it in part 2 as well, but here's the deal: Hoyo is referencing Theory of Forms, but the way they are doing so is not a perfect match to the ACTUAL CONCEPT of Theory of Forms. This is partly because converting a philisophical dialog into a game and world building mechanic is difficult and partly because (as Pilz rightly pointed out) they are likely blending multiple other philisophical cosmological models together. TL;DR - do not take my explanation of Plato's Theory of Forms as a perfect representation of what Theory of Forms really is and how it works. I was only explaining it in terms of how Hoyo has applied it to their world building (so with their own spin/adjustments) and I failed to make that distinction clear.
Tbh also the introductory part on how modern philosophy is just ethics and morals and hypotheticals etc isn't really true, modern philosophers still can have as their goal to explain and rationalise the world around them, only modern philosophy tipically tend to be highly rigourous and not all philosophers end up agreeing on whether it even is possible to rationalise reality; truth is the distinction between philosophers and scientists is not only fairly recent but also kind of unnecessary and misleading when talking about numerous major philosophers, both ancient and more recent who were also experts in the sciences
Very good. When I've heard that Plato's theory is simple, just described in confusing words... uhhh... well, I'll just say it's not simple. Plato never even stopped working on it, in his dialogues and letters you can find many concepts how it could work. Also - ideas/forms are NOT thoughts, and can't be described as just something existing in mind, that's just wrong. Plato said that they can't be even grasped in thoughts really, but by highest capacity of mind he called intellect, but it's more like... huhh... inner eye that just see true reality - ideas - as they are and fully, not by imperfect thinking. Thinking is more like something that can get you closer to this point. Thinking is more about understanding forms in material world than grasping forms themselves. Word idea is from greek word - to see. In videos about Genshin explanations about topics like philosophy don't have to be super accurate, but really it's worth to be cautious and always it can be said that it's only rough approximation etc. Although as for the matter of the video - I don't see there was harm done really. Unless it might be meaningful for interpreting Genshin lore what I've just explained about Plato's philosophy.
They took the structure of dualism and put some other stuff into it. Please understand that Ash is trying to explain these theories in the simplest terms so as a child can understand, that is the goal to reach as many people as possible not to write a PhD in Ancient Greece. It is therefore not "wrong" She uses theses examples to structure thoughts. Some people in Hoyo is apparently highly intelligent and can take ideas and thoughts from scientists, philosophers and create there OWN laws of nature, very impressive.
@@alexanderericson8628 I guess it was meant to be response to me. Maybe try to read comment again with understanding. Cause I exactly said I have nothing against simplifying things and being only roughly accurate. Simply - it needs to be presented as only rough approximation. With caution and respect. Not telling things like - it's a simple theory, you know, just this ancient guy was using confusing words. What you said only support my point, you know. And yes, telling that Plato's ideas are thoughts is simply wrong.
I just started the Melusine world quest, and I am absolutely amazed how on point you are. There is even a Melusine that you meet that simplifies Plato’s theory but instead of using spoons they used flowers as their example. I really hope you do a video on this world quest because it is full of tons of random information. *spoilers-ish* • It references Plato and his theories • It hints to the traveler’s and Paimon’s true nature • It talks about the world formula and what will happen when that formula ends • It references the book of revelation (they call it the book of revealing) • it talks about ancient humans • and you get to be up and close to the purple void breaking through the sky surrounded by ancient ruins • I also believe that the book may be related to the witches and it seems the author is trying to prevent the “end” • it is also refers to arcane ruins and circle magic There is so much to talk about and I really want to see your thoughts on this part of the world quest! Can’t wait to see it in the sometime future!
Ever since the Sumeru AQ, I always felt that every detail Nahida described about the shared dream samsara felt like it could apply to Teyvat after learning about what Irminsul was capable of. Not to mention that Rukkha literally called Nahida the version of her in the new samsara, implying that Teyvat is indeed operating mechanically similarly to a shared dream.
"Light can refract into countless colors, but people stop at seven because they're too lazy to count. Perhaps the elements are like that, too." - Colors of the rainbow, Elemental Specialists I achievement card.
After listenning to your theorie, I start to believe that the Primordial One may be the "host" of the Dream that is teavat. He may not even be aware that he is the Primordial One. (Like Nilou was not aware she was the host of the dream in the Akasha loop Dream)
Wait, what if the traveler IS the primordial one, and everything that happened in Genshin just their dream after being captured by the sustainer, except the intro cutscene? I mean we don't know what happened them exactly on the time between the Sustainer scene and meeting Paimon. We don't even know exactly where the traveler landed, if they even "landed", or what exactly they were doing before finding her.
this is like watching a netflix series but only after netflix decided to split the season in two or three parts and release them three months apart each, and then you can remember anything anymore, lol
Does that mean that if humanity is freed from teyvat, they'll go from being the concept of humanity manifested as humans by Irminsul to being things outside of irminsul, but because they're no longer things projected by Irminsul they're not immune to forbidden knowledge anymore so they'll become dragons, just like the other og humand did ?
@dasytaylor that makes so much sense...except now I'm wondering why Elezar exists at all under this theory? If the point of making humans the "concept" version inside the dream of Teyvat was to protect them from the fate of becoming dragons from Forbidden Knowledge, why can FK still affect people like this while theyre inside it?
I got to chapter 11, really loved that chapter because I love Seele, was really excited about it.... Then my WiFi stopped working or something and everything time I completed a level of anything in game it would just load and load and load until I had to restart the game, having not completed that level.
I forgot where i stopped but idk why abd how, but my brain overloaded and i couldn't understand shit... Like the story important pieces felt like latin (i tried learing that language in school and f-) and i just couldn't keep my interest
Girl,I came here to play a fantasy game with amazing lore and some grinding,not to question my entire existence while living in the war 😭 Great video though,I love those,helps my English ❤
As soon as she started talking about forms the moon arc on honkai clicked in my head. If it is the case that genshin is supossed to be a "what if Kevin successed with Project Stigma" I wonder, what would it be the closest thing to the spiritual Adam on Genshin? I might be misremembering, but iirc the spiritual Adam was supposed to be a perfect dream suited for the life of an individual, and then people with similar beliefs would share the same dream (kinda like we saw that dream with the curios kids and then the dream with people done with life on Honkai). If this were the case, could it be that these different dreams here are separated by region? Kinda like how she said about Archons having control of both an element and a concept, like Liyue having the concept of contracts, Mondstad having the concept of freedom, and those people who have a higher belief in any of those concepts would be put(born) I that region. I probably explained this poorly, but it was just a thought running through my head.
Somehow, though I can't quite put my finger to it, I think you've given an explanation for why characters in a shared region will get Visions of different elements rather than defaulting to the element of their local Archon. It is a matter of "Form" and "shared dreams", the visions of allogenes gained independently from the Archons representing any given element.
Yeah, so basically every couple updates Hoyo give enough lore and crack to Ashikai so that the final part of the series grows like a tree to the point that Ashikai needs to cut another sapling from the main tree. And so it goes again and again. You may even say that we are in the Project Teyvat last episode samsara.
This is really interesting. This is basically my only interaction with the game anymore. All i care about is the store/lore and this is my favorite place get it. Thank you for ll the hard work that you do.
same here, I'm behind on all the quests and exploration and I haven't logged in into the game in weeks but I still find Ashikai's videos so interesting. She just gives so much interesting info about other stuff besides Genshin, and handles the story/lore in a better way than the game devs actually do...
One more piece of evidence to the Lucifer = Lumine/Aether theory I found during my demonology studies: - Paimon is stated to be most loyal to lucifer, more so than any other demon in the ars goetia. It seems like a fun fact until you realize that paimon has been right by the traveller's side the entire time, their most loyal friend.
Yeah the bottleland projector thing has had connections drawn with Irminsul which is I suppose better than the whole "only memories change" thing. it recognizes that in fact Irminsul changes EVERYTHING just like the projectors can. HOWEVER pretending that the past never changes presents a new problem for this theory which is, "Why does Irminsul like to PRETEND and ACT LIKE the past changed"? The projectors in bottleland don't. If you change the blueprint the projected reality changes. Nobody's memories get switched out to simulate as if it had always been that way. It simply changes the reality to fit the blueprint. Switch it. Switch it back. No memories changed. No need to pretend the projection was always that way. If Irminsult changes the present and the future it's pretty weird it doesn't also change the past since they're all part of continuous space-time. It would be harder to NOT change the past. And so we have this weird result that the Irminsul according to this theory FAKES stuff to look like the past changed, while at the same time doing extra work to make sure it isn't changed. That's a lot of work for no apparent reason that makes any sense. Who asked Irminsul to simulate a FAKE change of the past? Does this theory still claim that Makoto actually did change the past somehow? So it's not like the reason is "the past can't be changed", right? But if Irminsul can't do that and Istaroth can then doesn't that make the specialness of Irminsul a bit redundant? If Istaroth can do more than Irminsul and the PO can do more than Istaroth then how on earth does PO have a fight with anyone? They can literally click their fingers and erase anything from existence or change time to before they were ever around? Dragons? gone. FK? gone? 2nd throne? gone. Ancient human civilization? restored from backup.
me : okay just gonna check youtube before sleeping until tge update ashi : posts a theory me : thats a specific timing anywat i love it (also love that i learn from your videos abt different concepts from the real world, its always interested to learn something new)
@@dreamday988We don't really.....we speculate based on honkai's delve into the imaginary tree, sea of quanta, and bubble universes, coupled with the irminsul looking very much like how the img tree was depicted and the fact that a "dark sea" is mentioned . In the end it's speculation .
@@worm2976 I mean, they did kind of rebrand to "HoYo*Verse*"; emphasis on verse, as in their Universe of games. Which is honestly such a big brain idea when you think about how everything always connects back into itself & can be explained within the confines of every game they make due to the nature of it.
This "thoughts become things" idea is also very akin to physics theoretical idea of "informational universe", i.e. the idea that information comes first, and then THE physics shapes the world accordingly, and not the other way around. In that sense the information is primary, foundation of reality, and the physical world we observe is just a subsequent and inevitable manifestation of it, or maybe even a physical computation of it, if you're into that kind of woo. It's a very cute rabbit hole to dwell into, especially considering genshin lore, with information and memories being so important to it, irminsul being literally a terminal of altering this primordial information, and the elements being the physics which create the world according to that information kinda "on the go", and of course the forbidden knowledge being this alien type of information that irminsul is unable to compile and the physics breaks, i guess.
There comes a moment in every Ashikai video that I stop moving and get chills all over my whole body. This one is no exception! Thank you for unraveling the depths of Hoyo's layered influences!
speaking of Plato's form and matter thing: pneuma and ousia, when translated from Greek, mean spirit and substance respectively. Just an interesting tidbit that is related...
I was just thinking the other day about Dragons, Gold and the stages of Khemia. Super excited for Part 5 of this series now! Loved this video, a lot of it makes so much sense and I love the idea of Irminsul as a type of "streaming projector".
Also in this theme, in the Byakuyakoku Collection along with Before Sun and Moon,is the Parable of the Sun, it feels like it is also definitely referencing Plato's the Cave.
Genshin's lore feels like playing a 4D chess game and will either make you question reality or give you existential crisis. This makes Scaramouche's line hold up till this day. Due to the Arkhe system, I think the Forbidden Knowledge is the Ousia of the Teyvat and is being controlled by Celestia to avoid Annihilation. Crack theory, Fontaine will suffer from another deluge in our timeline.
Another interesting thing to note is that the current theory about why we dream is because it helps our brains to process, categorise and remember memories. It has also been prooven that students learn faster and retain information longer if they are allowed to take naps. In this context, Akasha using dreams as a way to process data makes sense because that's what our brains are already doing. Often we dream about stressful situations because that's our minds subconsciously going "what would happen if" and trying to develop countermeasures. Which is kind of what happened during the fight wight with -Shinji- Scaramouche.
oh my gosh, having watched this and doing some of the fontaine world quests really made me so excited because it feels so right on the money! especially how some npc's lines almost directly imply the theory. this is amazing!
Watching this made me think that the twins might have been a singular entity at one point. They kinda have opposing but similar designs like two sides of a coin. It would also make sense in the way it doesn't matter which twin you choose at the start of the game because by the end they will become one entity.
If this is true it makes all the NPCs looking the same kinda make lore sense since they’d just be reflections of the concept of humans rather than a “real” human.
Your relation of the theory of forms to dragons reminded me of Tolkien's personal belief of what made something a true dragon. "Dragons, real dragons, essential to both the machinery and the ideas of a poem or tale, are actually rare." Is a direct quote from him, and I think this concept directly relates dragons to form theory AND the theory that Teyvat is made up of the elements. In the case of machinery, the dragons being made up of the pure element, the thing that creates physicality and sustains life on Teyvat, ties this together, as the element that they are inherently a part of is what makes Teyvat a place that sustains life, death, time, and space. The machinery that allows it to exist, and the mechanism by which the "thought" that is the Irminsul takes imperfect physical form. On the level of ideas, Apep, being the host of the collective consciousness that is the elemental beings that live within it, is itself a higher level of form, as you said in the video. The form as a blueprint could also be described as an idea, fitting the second criteria. I also want to add that, as pure elemental beings and a collective consciousness, the Oceanids ALSO fit the dragon criteria, and in your livestream where you analysed all the Fontaine footage/content we have so far, you pointed out that a Oceanid that appeared to be wrapped around a tower resembled a lot of depictions of dragons! While I'm not sure if this would necessarily make any radical change to the known lore or effect any future predictions (besides the Oceanid/dragon correlation), I think it is an interesting literary analysis to consider, and it also explains why friendly dragons like Dvalin are so much weaker and have a much smaller effect on the world, beyond just not being as ancient. I think it reflects and supports that the Seven Sovereigns themselves are more basic, abstract and encompassing expressions of form.
... Didn't she say this was supposed to be the last installment? Lol, I'm not complaining, but I remember Ashikai saying it would be the final part, and how happy she will be, to be done with it... Then I see that "4/5" staring at me, and I'm like: "Wait, what?"
She split it cause otherwise it would be long, exhausting and not finished by the time the patch is being updated. She explained that she wanted to coincide the video with the 4.0 update to give people something to watch while waiting for maintenance to end.
OK. Thanks to you both. I avoid Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr and some other social media locations like they are the plague, since a few years ago they were making my ptsd worse. So I was unaware of that.
@@kyokosakura3192 This one, yes. But not in any other recent video I saw within the last month or 2 (unless I missed one). If you are talking about THIS ONE: I posted my initial question 4 + hours before the video first went live. So I would have no way of knowing she might address the change in the video, when I posted that question, since it hadn't premiered yet.
I just wanna throw this to the wind because it has been plaguing my mind for the past weeks and i dont knos how much longer i can resist until caving into the insanity of overthinking things but i have a really strong hunch that The Twins are going to reset the world using the gnoses, i havent thought of a why or a proper how to this idea but its definitely an idea This has absolutely nothing to do with the video itself just my tapioca pudding making up nonsense again
18:26 "Genshin having a sci-fi origin" Seems to check out, I guess? Remember, Aloy is in the game. A fantasy person who at the end of their game's story found out that they were sci-fi in the beginning...
Honestly it's videos like this one are what motivates me to keep playing the game i almost never says this in a comment but thank you for this great content
GRRRHHH BARK BARK, ASHIKAI IS RELEASING A VIDEO, BARK BARK, seriously, the euphoria that gets pumped into my brains every time I see that Ashikai is premiering a video is unmached fr.
the detail about vishaps evolving from humans is particularly interesting given the existence of vishap people. it’s already proven that an evolutionary in-between exists
It takes some seriously good writing and wording to make lore theories/explanations somewhat followable, as usual my brain hurts but I kinda get what your saying and that’s good enough for me
You know what this reminds me of? Zegapain. Zegapain is about a group of people who somehow realized that they've been repeating their lives over and over again (like a dejavu), so they band together to find the truth. In the end, they found out the truth. They are only a collective memories of human inside a virtual world, the real human has already been wiped out and what's left are just their memories, personality, etc in the virtual world. But virtual world cannot expand, it can only project their life up to a certain point and then loop infinitely.
I am so mind flipped, I cannot even process the details of the flip. I'm barely conscious that a flip has taken place, only reason I am is cuz I'm already insane and thus understand what flipping minds is. But this is the grandaddy of flips upon the mind.🤯
That is an excellent and convincing way of tying the game back to Honkai Impact. I know the Project ARK theory has been around forever, given the meaning of Teyvat, but I really didn't think about Irminsul/the Akasha's connection to Project Stigma until you brought it up. Some really impressive crack work there. And this would also explain how say, a dragon could become a human, since the hydro sovereign is human. (It's Kokomi) While this is all crack, I would be beyond ecstatic if they so directly tied Genshin to Honkai in this way. As for the slightly less crack parts, I had personally theorized that the abyss twin was forced into Irminsul by Celestia to control them, that the Abyss Order stopped that process for the Traveler, and that is why they are indebted to the Order and took their side against Celestia. This would also explain the gaps in memory for the Traveler, Iriminsul works off memory, tampering with the process could disrupt the target's memories. Still this is now my new favorite crack theory, alongside Celestia dropping a nail on Fontaine.
I just realised the crazy views you get, congrats on that, you really deserve it, I feel your passion for the lore in each video I watch and it's great👍
I did have those thoughts on elemental energy = memories/wishes, and if that's the case is the world of Teyvat literally constructed from dreams, so seeing that aspect of the video was pretty fun. The video is pretty high concept but it does give a lot of food for thought. Thoughts and Things, do you think Ousia and Pneuma being named that further plays into that theme? I do vaguely remember that one hoyo interview where they talked a little about inspirations behind artifacts and how talking too much about their concepts would go into spoiler territory so this was interesting to see too. Looking forward to part II, hoping for some Albedo crumbs cuz all the Jung stuff reminded me of the deep dives I did into that topic because of him :D
A pretty bold claim you made at the end there, so if part 2 isn't on the same level of crack as your video with the theory about the earth yaksha being a harbinger, I might be disappointed.
This theory unites EVERYTHING i wanted someone to talk about. The 5 artifacts, teyvat actually meaning "ark", and the splitting of big gods into smaller ones! Cant wait for part 5!
If Teyvat is indeed the final remnants of human civilization, then it is literally the Ark of Humanity TL Note: Teyvat means Ark (as in Noah's Ark; Teyvat Noach)
Now that you mention Project Stigma...the notes on the travelers twitter post back from before the beginning of the game...suddenly makes a lot more sense. "K.K." could really stand for "Kevin Kaslana" then, the leader of Project Stigma The video was very well explained and a lot of things clicked for me, especially the talk about "authority" in context really makes sense I also could strengthen my understanding on a lot of things, thank you so much for making all of this content!
even it's part 9999 I wouldn't get bored listening to your lore videos! I've dubbed this channel as my primary source of genshin lore since version 3.0. TBH, I've not had had the patience nor the time to read through all the dialogue and lore in-game aside from the main story quest and any quest with voicelines. really looking forward on how the the theory about the gnoses being their own "kings" play out. I've always had that nagging feeling that the gnosis from each of the archons had vaguely resembled both each of the chess pieces and being it's own "king" piece.
paimon says in her most recent character quest that even when forbidden knowledge is compltely removed, its influence remains, and that can turn fungi into withering tumors. reminds me of the thoughts turning into things thing.
OMG ur theory is just- 🤯🤯🤯 so good!! 🤩 Based on what you said at 19:34, I think that you could be correct about humans evolving into dragons/monsterly creatures. This made me think of Khaenriah specifically and how the people there were turned into monsters. I think that because khaenriah was studying powers of the abyss, i.e. forbidden knowledge, the primordial one probably became upset with them bc this would lead to a repeat of humanity being wiped out by forbidden knowledge, and essentially undo the efforts of primordial one rebuilding a world for humans. Maybe the “curse” of becoming a hilichurl is actually just a removal of the protective factor that keeps the current humans from evolving into dragons/monsters. Maybe instead of a curse being placed upon them, primordial one is punishing them by removing his protection from them. If this is true, then we need to consider what that protective factor is? Also, by looking at it this way it seems that we can look into how to undo the curse of khaenriahns. Regardless, ur theory is awesome and made my jaw drop sometimes lol. Keep at it!!
Thanks for making this video. After starting playing initially I thought Genshin was just name dropping real world mythology here and there, but after awhile I realized they were incorporating it into the actual base story. And then I kept seeing Gnostic and Platonic philosophy everywhere in Genshin. I've been wanting someone to cover the Gnostic/Platonic references in Genshin.
I mean, I want someone to talk about what we have literally seen, as Traveler, from the start of the game, verses what we’re believing Cause Zhongli called us an observer and backup for history, others told us to believe what we’ve seen, but in Fontaine anything can be just a show, a facade, or crooked masked truth The duality of this is so interesting and I hope someone can make some theory out of it
Very interesting! I think another thing worth noting is that Genshin is increasingly show more and more its Neon Genesis Evangelion, another work that dabbles a lot in philosophy, psychology, and the collective unconscious. If you haven't watched it already, I would seriously recommend you do, and would love to hear your take on those influences! And it's really starting to come together for me after watching this video, since "Genshin" apparently means "primordial god" and the "Impact" part of both Honkai and Genshin is apparently a reference to the Impacts in Evangelion... And you know, knowing what those "impacts" are along the analysis you've put up here about the primordial god, I think the very title of the game is really starting to make sense.
I’ve always thought Plato’s cave myth HAS to have some application to Genshin because it’s a perpetual state of the world lol I had philosophy as a major and know a slightly different version of the myth so I thought I’d share it: in this version, the shadows aren’t cast by puppeteers but rather is the world beyond the cave, which is sealed off by a rock with a big enough opening to let in a little light, and the people are born shackled in the cave rather than imprisoned. Miraculously, one man is born without shackles and as he approaches the exit of the cave and gazes out at the Real World, his eyes begin to hurt because of how blinding the light, or knowledge, is. He goes back to tell his fellow shackled mates that everything they’ve thought to be real is nothing more than a hollow shadow, to which they think him crazy and kill him.
Literally every time genshin has a purple and gold energy I go "QUANTUM AND IMAGINARY!!!!" needless to say i was losing my mind at the fontaine trailer.
Makes me also think that the Archon war…killing all those minor deities who had the elemental energy locked in their forms..would release a lot of creation energy back into the world. Could be a helpful way to re-stabilize a damaged or dying Teyvat…ya know if the Heavenly nails ain’t pulling their weight.
As soon as you mentioned the projector in bottleland were ordinary objects assembled; the objects were the gifts. It’s basically the transitive opposite of the artifacts- resin from the environment is given to branches of Irminsul and the Will/Memories are coalesced into an artifact. The gifts are objects upon which Memories/Will have been imbued upon which can project onto the environment.
I love this series. I have always been interested in Genshin Lore and i like how this is presented and explained. the quality is very good as always ^.^ for whatever its worth fom a random stranger on the internet keep up the good work ^.^ !
I think Teyvat isn't so much earth as an "Ark" (like the name) and as such the original functions of Irmensil and the world was not to provide a home for humans, but a byproduct of the abyssal (probably a black hole) energy eventually forming a whole landmass over time. What I think happened is rather than mutating into the dragons, humans ended up leaving (either finding a new home, dying off due to radiation or attacks) leaving it to float in the void of space until the Primordial one, possibly a human creation itself, found teyvat and used the stored memories to recreate humans using teyvat's abilities. Everything else I do agree with, the travelers were perhaps creations sent originally to find a new home and by the time they returned, their makers were long gone.
let's not forget K.K who seemed to have conversed with the twins at some point in the past. i am more and more convinced k.k is just genshin's alternative kevin who is from the same time period as the twins in the previous civilization that you theorized.
I never thought I'd see so much philosophy I recognize in an ashikai video but Im glad cuz şts easier to follow along and more fun in a way, Thank you for the amazing theories as always
![[3.8] Irminsul's True Purpose - Genshin Impact Theory - [Project:Teyvat Ep 4/5]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
