I was LDS for years. Became LDS after college, married a beautiful cradle LDS lady I met in a singles ward, served in the Bishopric, on the Stake High Council, and then started reading LDS history. Big mistake for my LDS faith! It was a long journey, fraught with challenges to our married life, but God got hold of my life and my wife's heart . . . we entered Christianity in a Baptist Church, researched Church history and became Orthodox and are now "back home" practicing Catholics. Praise God!
My wife is ex Mormon, coming from a Mormon family. Her family always treated me so kindly, way better than my own southern baptist family. Even after I converted to catholicism they still treat me well, and were more supportive of my conversion than my evangelical parents.
Dennis Prager once said at a forum that the true test of any religion is how its people behave. I like Rory Sutherland's take "It aint crazy if it works"
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Are you denying that the literal worship of ritual human sacrifice is the core tent of Christianity? You know, that cross thing and John 3:16... Paul created Christianity in 48 AD and this is how he put it: Romans 8:32 "He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all." 1 Corinthians 5:7 "Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." Romans 3:25 "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement." Romans 5:8 "God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us." Hebrews 10:10 "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ."
@@stevenlester985 _"...that’s a weird way of describing what Christ commands us to do."_ Should we expect God to know what the Ten Commandments are? Which was Jesus's sixth commandment? (Notice that Jesus lists only the secular commandments that make no mention of God): 1. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Matthew 19:17-19) 2. Honor thy father and mother: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother. (Mark 10:19) 3. There was no sixth. Jesus listed only five commandments: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother. (Luke 18:20)
Belief in the Catholic faith is not based on a single piece of evidence, such as the sincerity of the apostles, but on the totality of all the evidence. And it's overwhelming.
It all is j st one thing though. The resurrection. Issue is even if I grant you that Judaism is truth because we have equaled that miracle even today. It doesnt equal Sinai so you cant alter the covenant. That and Jesus is in hell
I too was a devout mormon. (6 generations). Found out that Joseph Smith wasn’t true. Left at 33 yrs old. Joined a baptist church and nondenominational for 20 plus yrs. Found the church fathers thru a Catholic who just invited me to look them up! I’ve studied for 6 yrs. Now just trying to get in the Catholic Church! 😀 not an easy task.😜🙏🏻 but trusting God through it. Please pray for me.🙏🏻❤️
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@MeanBeanComedy _"We know all about your different worlds of heaven."_ LOL You say you know the "deets" of my religion but get them wrong. They aren't worlds but degrees in the same place. The Early Church Fathers even mentions them and gives details, would you like those quotes?
@dylanwilliams2202 You are being smug in your refutation over a technicality. The person you are responding to is correct in the ways that matter, and you aren't even correct. The celestial kingdom has degrees within it, but the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are both described as completely different realms/places. At best, the issue of whether or not they are on different worlds would be unsettled and the idea that they are would be perfectly compatible with LDS theology. I'll bite. What quotes are you referencing?
@@bearistotle2820 The very early Church Father, Papias understood that the Saviour's three degrees of 'fruitfulness' (Matthew 13:8, Matthew 13:23) corresponded to the Pauline three 'heavens' or 'glories' (1 Corinthians 15:41). According to him (as recorded in the first century account of Polycarp), the 'Elders' agreed that “Those who are deemed worthy of an abode in Heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others shall possess the splendor of the City. For everywhere the Saviour will be seen, according as they shall be worthy who see him. But that there is this *distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundredfold, and that of those who produce sixtyfold, and that of those who produce thirtyfold; for the first will be taken up into Heaven; the second class will dwell in Paradise, and the last will inhabit the City; and that on this account the Lord said, “In my house are many mansions”' for all things belong to God, who supplies all with a suitable dwelling place, even as his word says, that a share is given to all by the Father, according as each is or shall be worthy.”* That was also quoted by Irenaeus in his book. Origen, in the early third century, revealed that the early Church interpreted this passage in essentially the same way “Our understanding of the passage indeed is, that the Apostle, *wishing to describe the great difference among those who rise again in glory,* i.e., of the saints, borrowed a comparison from the heavenly bodies, saying, "One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, another the glory of the stars” (Origen, De Principiis 2, Chapter 10 paragraph 2) Clement of Alexandria also expressed belief in the three degrees, and echoed the Lord's revelation to Joseph Smith that those in the highest degree "are gods, even the sons of God." From Clement of Alexandria, Stromata 6 chapter 14 titled “degrees of heaven”, “Conformably, therefore, there are various abodes, according to the worth of those who have believed . . . . *These chosen abodes, which are three, are indicated by the numbers in the Gospel--the thirty, the sixty, the hundred.* And the perfect inheritance belongs to those who attain to "a perfect man," according to the image of the Lord . . . . To the likeness of God, then, he that is introduced into adoption and the friendship of God, to the just inheritance of the lords and gods is brought; if he be perfected, according to the Gospel, as the Lord Himself taught.” Clement also preached that the three gradations of glory are procured by virtue of three types of actions: [Clement of Alexandria] reckons three kinds of actions, the first of which is . . . right or perfect action, which is characteristic of the perfect man and Gnostic alone, and raises him to the height of glory. The second is the class of . . . medium, or intermediate actions, which are done by less perfect believers, and procure a lower grade of glory. In the third place he reckons sinful actions, which are done by those who fall away from salvation. Just like the Early Church Fathers In the vision of the kingdoms of glory to Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon (Doctrine and Covenants section 76), the Lord revealed that 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 is not just a comparison of earthly bodies with heavenly, but also a reference to the fact that there are three different major levels of glory to which a body can be resurrected: “And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one. And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differeth from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world.” (D&C 76:96-98)
@@bearistotle2820you're still alive! Nice to see you again my friend haha I meant to ask you years ago if your name had anything to do with a certain tall man who now lives in Idaho.
Man, I'm so stoked for this video. I used to be mormon and I'm reading about Catholicism. I've been waiting for Trent to do a video about this. I'm going to save it for tomorrow after work as a reward for making it through another shift. Lol. Love your videos.
If you'd like a place to ask questions about Catholicism, I highly recommend checking out crossthetiber.org There's a lot of good folks there that are happy to answer questions and point you to great resources. -Kyle
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202your “prophet”literally pulled “revelations” out of his ass left right and center for his own convenience lol. Why would I follow such a phony religion?
What's interesting about the LDS Church is that they claim they're the "restored" Church of the Apostolic Age. Yet, when you read the Apostolic Fathers (Ignatius mainly) and the Didache, we can see that the Church of the Apostolic Age has really no theological similarities. I recommend to every Mormon to read the Didache.
Same, what I was taught about Catholicism and the early years of Christianity during my Mormon childhood is completely unrelated to reality. When I started studying actual history my Mormon “testimony” got knee-capped.
What about the "12" apostles (?) If Christ church continued (after the death of the apostles) why weren't the apostles replaced? (I think the councils of nicea and others) sort of made the catholic church more of a "state" religion (with pieces of truth, but also to keep it under control, shroud it in mysticism and nebualties) also taking away "core" doctrines (which was proven) like the concept of our "Pre-mortal" lives (meaning we lived with God and Jesus) before our births and we just weren't "snapped into existence". As per the "12" have you ever seen the Chosen series? (really good, I highly recommend it).
As a Latter-day Saint/ long time fan of yours, I must applaud you for the high quality video. Though I obviously have my disagreements with what you've presented, overall it's a very well researched/ considered critique of our faith that deserves serious attention. Quite often people who criticize Mormonism do so from a blatantly misinformed perspective. It's refreshing to see somebody take our faith seriously enough to actually do their homework. Well done!
@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. Back in like 2015 (kinda old news). Please tell me you don't think the CES letter is the pinnacle of critiques with regards to Mormonism? Dan Vogel for example (an actual scholar unlike Jeremy) is a much better source
Thanks Ethan. You saved me from writing out a comment. Although Trent is incorrect in quite a number of points I do appreciate him taking more time than most to research.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We have scholars that give great answers to all these issues which Trent raises. I appreciate his honesty and sincerity. I once left my faith once after learning about these issues. My favorite scripture though is proverbs 3:5 which says to trust in the Lord with all thine art and lean not on thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct thy paths.” I’ve done that and I’ve overcome the craftiness of men and answered all my questions and issues. Nevertheless I get why people can’t get over these issues and I still love y’all. I enjoy the channel and find all these discussions interesting.
“Great answers”? Hmmm, I’m gonna disagree with you there, as an ex-Mormon who went through the process of hoping lds apologists could provide answers. Their answers are laughable. Sorry, they are shooting blanks, friend.
Thanks for the video. I was born and raised LDS. I also served a mission and taught about the Book of Mormon for two years. I'm 35 now and, for a variety of reasons that would be too long to list here, recently came to the conclusion that the book isn't what I thought it was/what it claims to be. That conclusion has left me reeling because of it's implications, so I've been engaged in listening to a lot of apologetics recently while I try and piece my faith back together. Your channel has been refreshing and I appreciate you taking time to touch on this. Consider this a request for you to do more videos on the subject.
Biggens - As an active LDS member, I tell people that if their church had a better value proposition I would leave tomorrow. it's essentially a trade. I am promised exaltation, eternal marriage, temple worship, covenant blessings, spiritual inspiration, and physical protection...which I believe I have received in spades. What do I get if I trade that in to become Catholic, or join an online church like Apologia - or become agnostic/atheist? Where is the best long-term ROI for myself and the kids...do you have kids? Were you able to trade up for something better? I'd be interested in a similar trade.
@MBiggens, I was a devout Latter-Day Saint my entire life. And when I say devout, I mean I was all in. Then I learned about Sacred Tradition and the Church fathers. I eventually came to the conclusion that either Christ's church was lost and had to be restored, or it had always been on earth just as he promised (Ephesians 5:29-30; Matthew 16:18; John 14:16, 18). It was at this point that I realized I had to address my concerns regarding the JST. In short, I found the Bible to be the most/only reliable book of scripture. Eventually after much studying and prayer, I was baptized into the Catholic church 2 months ago, at age 36. I wish you the best in your journey and I hope you will soon join us!
@@rhamsesmartinez5007 Thanks for sharing! I've actually been attending mass for the past couple of months and plan to start RCIA in around September. My wife went through a similar process and has recently been baptized at a non-denominational evangelical church. It puts us in a strange situation, but I trust that God will do His own work in us and guide us to where we're supposed to be as long as we seek sincerely. Best wishes to you moving forward as well!
Another former Mormon that became Catholic. Although Orthodox rather than Roman. I enjoy most of your stuff. Funny the way time changes things for us. If you were to say 10 years ago I’d be offering up prayers to Mary and the Saints I’d say you were crazy. My soul is finally at peace now. Love my Roman brothers!
What do you mean ? Either you are part of the holy, saint, unique and universal Catholic church in one of its 24 rites (Roman(or Latin), and the 23 eastern rites (Maronite, Gueze, Greek-Catholique, Melkite, Syro-Malabar, ....) which indeed have an Orthodox faith. Or you are part of the shismatic church that call itself orthodox and you are thus not part of the Catholic Church.
Well the official name of the church is “The Orthodox Catholic Church” and we say the Creed every week expressing the belief in one Catholic Church and talk to every Orthodox priest and they will say we are Catholic but what do I know?
My grandpa was a cradle Catholic and quite the character. When he was getting on in years he used to answer Mormons by saying, "Oh you're here to talk to me about the Angel Moron!" Playing it off as senility.
The Egyptologist info on the above video needs to be updated. As Paul Gregersen demonstrates that Joseph Smith was right, the Egyptologists were wrong.
@HaleStorm49 You are correct that as false, demon inspired religions go Islam is way more successful - a billion adherents vs 16 million. But it's early days for Mormonism. Maybe in 1500 years we'll be talking about the Mormonite Empire of the 2200s.
Knew some lovely Mormon folks in college. Friendly, well dressed, and pretty fun to hang out with. Eventually I did find the Catholic center so slowly stopped seeing them, but they weren’t too disappointed about it. Even went with them to their temple down in Houston, which was…. Different for me. One of the guys told me he actually “stood in” for his deceased relatives there, something like 10 times he was ‘baptized’ in their place. Still don’t really understand how that became a practice with Mormons, but I feel that way about a lot of non-Catholic practices. At the end of the day though, I do feel a bit sad for Mormons/LDS folks. Yes they seem happy and all that, but I just can’t understand how they can reconcile such strange ideas when compared to basic history. Catholics get the same accusation of course, but most of those accusations can be refuted with solid evidence if the accuser is willing to argue in good faith. Mormonism though, I just don’t see the same level 🤷♀️
It's a great question. Paul instructed disciples re:this practice in Corinthians chapter 15. Reconciliation comes with study and understanding. it actually makes sense if you try and figure out how someone could be condemned to hell for not having an opportunity to be baptized...which incidentally is how the practice of infant baptism began. Why would God condemn innocent babies to hell, limbo, etc while a sinful baptized person is saved? Isn't this far harder to reconcile than the belief that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and have a baptism performed on their behalf?
@@HaleStorm49Paul mentioning something is FAR from him supporting something. Baptism does not make sense after death. If they are dead, they either get saved or not. If not, no prayer or ritual from third persons will help them.
@@HaleStorm49 Have you read the chapter? You cited the whole chapter so I guessed you did. He was not in the whole section teaching practices. It was debunking! Baptism was already discussed in other letters and it was clear the why and how. Read it well: In that section he is first criticizing a specific heresy that believed that the unbaptized are annihilated at death - their soul just vanishes, nothing after. Jehovah's Witnesses is a modern heresy that advocates this, I believe. Right after he says basically if there's no soul, what are you baptizing anyway? The whole argument is about resurrection after death being FUNDAMENTAL to Christianity. "If Jesus was not resurrected, YOUR FAITH IS FUTILE" So brother, much what we know of baptism is all over the Bible, it's just not in that part. The whole Bible makes it extremely clear: Salvation is YOUR responsibility. You cannot save others by proxy! Why can't I then take a roster of the world's dead from the last 100 years and baptize them? Damn, let me baptize Hitler real quick, he'd go straight to heaven with no effort of his own!
Love the line from the s t.the voyage home. Spock is mind melting with Gracie the blue whale is her name in the tank. Kirk to the whale specialist: " He did too much L.D.S in the sixtys. ". Thats what Roseanne Barr says too
Here is a "very interesting" statement (from a "high up" Catholic leader) that you might find interesting. This is what he said when he came to Utah (and visited with the lds church members) : “Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue’s end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: ‘You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don’t even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that’s all there is to it. The Protestants haven’t a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism’s attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.’” (LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder [Deseret Book Co., 1950], pp. 3-4.)
As an ex-Mormon and now (Evangelical Protestant) Christian, I would love to see further dialogue or debate between you and LDS apologists. I always really appreciate your reasoned approach even when I disagree with you.
I too became Catholic because the God of the Bible is clearly not the one Joseph Smith lays out. “Hear, O’Israel, the lord your God is lord ALONE.” That being said, they way Mormons behave is often more Christian than most Christians. Good people even though the beliefs are deeply flawed.
I grew up in a Mormon family. All my childhood I was told how Joseph Smith was a prophet that restored the true Church. Then as an adult I really started studying things like Doctrine & Covenants, and started feeling doubts. One day I watched a PBS documentary where I learned for the first time that blacks had been barred from the priesthood and the LDS prophet at the time, Gordon Hinckley, described the meeting where they made the decision. It caused a crisis of faith because the priesthood is a huge part of Mormonism. Wouldn't God have made such a big detail right from the beginning of a "restoration" of the Church? Then if you start digging into who Joseph Smith was you could really start to see the manipulation he exerted on people. Mormons are generally good people but they have been misled.
Thanks for this Trent. Had some Mormons come over and they wanted to come back tomorrow to explain their case more. Watching this and reading other material so I can be the best Catholic witness possible, and help kindly point them in the right direction and defend the True Faith.
Read the book, Russia and Universal Church. Vladimir was a russian orthodox who converted to Catholicism, he was one of the brightest minds of the east.
It would be cool to have a part 2 where Trent addresses some of the rebuttals he's received by the Mormons in the comment section, especially those quoting scripture about the exaltation of men and the Trinity. I think It's an interesting conversation for everyone. As a former member of the Mormon church going through RCIA, I've found that there is an abundance of Catholicism vs Protestantism discussion, but there's not a whole lot of in-depth critique of Mormonism from the Catholic prospective. I understand Trent can't do a 3 hour podcast, but addressing some counter arguements and interpretations of the Bible that Mormons commonly give would be a fitting companion to this video.
I too was Mormon and was baptized Catholic just over a year ago! I had this same conversation with my husband who is a cradle catholic. He thinks the reason why there is not a lot of Catholic vs. Mormon videos out there rebutting the Mormon faith is bc a lot of Catholics have bigger issues with protestant faiths and wanting to bring the church back to its fullness since the schisms rather than the Mormon church which is not even part of the Christian denomination. The YT page God Loves Mormons has some great content but it does come from a Protestant perspective but I find it is still great information as it uses biblical evidence to explain different topics. Wish more Catholics would talk about it but not many Catholics have a good understanding of Mormonism. I find it’s hard to unless you grew up in it.
@@alyssaprice2511 I also figured Mormonsim is small potatoes in the scheme of things, but it's sad to see that when many people leave Mormonism they end up Atheist. My sister has also decided she doesn't believe in the LDS church (we sort of went on this journey together) and I fear she's gone down the Athiest tract. So much of Mormon criticism includes progressive athiest ideology (Mormon Stories). I wish there was more targetted outreach from Catholics to Mormons. I'm in Utah, so there's plenty of former member's teaching and going through RCIA at the parish I attend, so there's at least some community, but not a whole lot of online community.
@@sirshramp5934 I couldn’t agree more! Majority of people who leave the Mormon faith become agnostic or atheist. Small % become Christian. I was invited to go on the Mormon Stories podcast and turned it down because I do not align with John’s lack of religion. He does have great information when it comes to the falseness of Mormonism but gets it terribly wrong with promoting agnosticism and atheism. Yes, not many Catholics talk about the issues of Mormonism online and I think it’s a shame especially since people’s souls are at stake here. I think it can be intimidating since Mormonism is a very hard religion to understand since it is a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of the terminology is the same as Christianity but their words have different meanings. It’s been on my heart to create a community online for this type of content that you and I are talking about so I may have to give it some serious thought. I wish there was more information from a Catholic perspective when I was leaving Mormonism.
@alonso19989 Yeah! I came accrossed him a few days before he did that episode on Trent's show. I really like Joe's approach. Exactly what I was looking for!
Please pray for my godmother, for whom I'm named. She married a Mormon when i was a child and she left the Church. A couple years ago she revealed to me that the Catholic Church had hurt her "very badly." I didn't get a chance to ask her what happened, but around the same time i learned that young girls in her age bracket, who were all from families of little means, had been abused by the parish priest. This was before Vatican II, for what it's worth. Many of the girls were being raised by their dads after their mothers died, or their mothers were very ill and hospitalized for some length of time. Being a farming community, the mothers didn't work outside the home, but contributed majorly to the family's income because everybody in the family worked on the farm. My godmother was such a girl. She had been sent to live at the rectory for a time, according to some (as noted, I didn't have a chance to ask her). There was a convent on the other side of the church from the rectory, so I don't know why the girls wouldn't have been sent there instead of to the priest's residence, and nobody can explain why, they just insist that's what the arrangement was. Whether my godmother was a victim of abuse or not, something happened that hurt her emotionally very badly, to where she left the Church. My parents asked her to be my godmother because she was pious, devout, and faithful, and they wanted that for me. Please pray for her to heal and return to Holy Mother Church, and also please pray for the victims of that priest and for all victims of clergy abuse.
That must have been traumatic she needs proper counseling.. and I see now why she saw Catholic that way. But a single priest must not damage the whole church.. even where I came from I know priest who was held accountable and in jail.. in summary judge d person not d whole church because everyone is a sinner regardless of religion
Kudos to you for reading all these Mormon books. I can’t have this stuff living in my head. The Mormon faith is so confusing with no logical path. Thank you for trying to make sense of all of this for us.
It is interesting to note that the 19th century had many groups that tried to get back to what they thought was the “original NT church,” and rejected all other existing denominations. The Reconstructionists were one such Christian group.
Hey! Mormon here. You've made a lot of great content here and I've loosely followed you for a while now. Almost every single time I see a headline about Mormonism, it's almost a guarantee it's full of nonsense and misinformation. So honestly it was a relief to see that you actually attempted to depict our faith as accurately as possible. It's not hard to tell when someone has actually taken the time, and when they haven't. We tend to be an easy target or punching bag for larger Christendom so many tend to try to get away with half-baked research. I can tell you're acting in good faith though and I appreciate that. There are a few mistakes/ambiguities I'd like to correct if I may: - You said he had many spiritual wives, some of which were 14. For one, only a single one of these "wives" was 14, which was not considered wrong or especially unusual in his day. But further on that, she was only sealed to him for "eternity only". It may be helpful to understand how sealings worked at that time to understand why many of his "wives" were not wives in the way we picture them as sexual partners. - You said after Martin Harris lost the 116 pages Smith translated from other plates. That's not really true as there was only one set of plates. Instead he was told to simply continue translating from the same set rather than going back. Perhaps that's how you meant it, but I think at the very least that can be confusing for some. - On plurality of gods: We believe in a plurality of gods, sure...but only officially as a lowercase "g" god (which is how all publications spell it). Some Mormons speculate on "infinite regression" (God having his own Father and so on) but the Church itself does not embrace or teach that doctrine. It does embrace a version of theosis, however. But there is no official doctrine at all about multiple capital "G" Gods. Many LDS (including myself) do not agree with this speculative idea of infinite regress or multiple "Gods". Many of my arguments (though not all) are the same as the ones you gave. In fact the way you describe the Jewish concept of Yahweh is spot on my conception and the way I understand LDS doctrine. - On the King Follett Discourse, a few things of note which are somewhat compounding: 1) It is not as a whole considered doctrine. Prophets are human and sometimes speak for God and sometimes speak for themselves...fallibly. This was a funeral discourse, not an official prophecy. That doesn't mean we can reject it outright, but rather it is not necessarily a reliable source of doctrine. 2) There was never an official transcript but many and there appear to be some disagreements on some of these especially controversial points of God once supposedly being mortal. 3) Many interpret the discourse to suggest God himself was exalted from his own mortality. That doctrine is not taught nor embraced by the Church, but is simply the result of speculation of rank-and-file members without authority to declare so. - This one is nitpicky but...Lamanites is LAY-man-ahyts, and idk how you pronounced Zarahemla but it's just as it's spelled lol. That's more just a personal peeve haha. Those are mostly doctrinal points I think need clarification. There are lots of things I could push back on regarding geography or God just being some superpowered alien, etc. but that's a whole discussion of its own. I hope these points can be helpful. Again I can at least appreciate you critiquing and addressing this in good-faith and even-handedly. I'd be happy to discuss these topics with you, although I'd highly recommend you reach out to the channel "Thoughtful Faith" who is actually far more familiar with Catholicism and philosophy/theology more broadly as well as doing video discussions and debates. He's done thorough discussions on Trinitarianism and Creatio Ex Nihilo which you brought up before as well. Since you've given some critique of Mormonism, I hope you're willing to engage with some good-faith responses. Despite some disagreements, I respect what you do 🙏🏻
@@glennyskitchen9491 Understandable but again a few points on that: 1) Such young marriages were not uncommon for the early 19th century. 2) Her "marriage" to Joseph Smith was a sealing for "eternity only". Meaning there was little to no chance they actually had sexual relations. 3) Her parents were the ones that initiated and approved the whole thing with her approval as well. Consent all the way around. 4) Helen Mar Kimball was her name. She actually went on to very much defend her marriage and the institution of polygamy later in life. She was one of the strongest defenders of it. All of which seems to me rebuts the "creepiness" of it.
The Mormon Great Apostasy is even worse than stated here. In Mormon Theology, the Church must people in the Office of Apostle, who have what they call the "Melchizedek priesthood." This is distinct from the "Aaronic priesthood" which they believe their bishops, elders, etc hold. The Melchizedek priesthood is necessary for ordaining new people; Aaronic priests cannot ordain. So the loss of the Apostles means the loss of the Melchizedek preisthood. What this means for the Mormon Great Apostasy is that as soon as the last apostle dies without anyone in that office, you cannot ordain anyone else, meaning the church dies in one generation. You may note that none of the early church writings mention any sort of distress about the lack of an apostle office leading to the loss of valid ordination. This leads to one of three potential conclusions. Either 1) the sin/heresy of the Church was absolutely irrelevant to the Great Apostasy, because even if they had not sinned the Church would have still lost priesthood authority from the death of the apostles; 2) the Church had gone almost entirely apostate while the Apostles were still alive such that they decided not to ordain any new Apostles (this would seem to contradict the existence of Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, and the Philadelphian Church in Revelation 3:7-12); or 3) the Apostles were completely unaware that an office of Apostle was necessary to continue the priesthood. To this last point, some Mormon apologists explain the loss of Apostles by saying they were unable to appoint successors due to getting martyred. Setting aside that Mormons believe John the Apostle is still alive so he should be able to ordain, the actions of the Apostles are much more consonant with a vision of spreading throughout the world ordaining bishops to continue succession, than needing to keep Apostle Office alive and sending out missionaries whose death would not cause the death of the entire Church.
Option 3. They were aware because they were Apostles and Christ taught them what was to occur. There are several verses in the NT that reference both the apostasy and the restoration of "all things" which includes things that have never been taught before in the last dispensation before Christ returns.
Former Mormon Missionary here who is currently in the RCIA. You did an excellent job with this video. I had a very harsh exit out of the Mormon church, a lot of familial and social backlash even to this day. All ex-mo's have different stories and experiences coming out of it. But we are all united in being so grateful that we left. Glory to God!
Former member but it was the same plates just 116 pages were not translated. The plates were actually Brass. The reason I became Catholic is the fact the Book of Mormon teaches of Mary's sinless nature and in Transubstantiation, then in Doctrine and Covenants 20 Joseph Smith rejects Transubstantiation. My question then is if Mormonism is true, then why the conflict of scriptural teachings? Catholicism never conflicts with the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets. I then studied the keys of the kingdom, each key pointed me to the Catholic Church.
About the necessity of monotheism, let me tell you one thing I found out. If you want to make a Hindu really angry, call him/her a polytheist. They will tell you that all the gods and goddesses to whom they pay honour are just aspects of the one and only God. There cannot be more than one, because the Lord, Ishwara, Bhagavan, is the Self of the universe. Polytheism always tends to this direction - you can find the same tendency in Greek philosophy.
InspiringPhilosophy's "The Case for Ancient Monotheism Documentary" video also sheds light on evidence for monotheism amongst aborigenal tribes from Australia.
Oof, Kwaku M. El is so freaking abrasive that he makes James White look downright cordial by comparison. Coming from an LDS family, I know the vast majority of LDS people are wonderful, but man, I cannot stand listening to Kwaku.
Nothing screams "I have no sound and valid argument" like repeating the same word or phrase over and over with a smug smile on your face. You could tell the Mormon individual on the podcast was full of it. Thanks for calling out all this stuff!
I’m LDS and I love Trent’s content. He’s become one of my favorite apologists. That said, I have to correct one point. To say that Joseph Smith “died in a gunfight,” is like saying that the Central Park Jogger (a victim of gang rape) was injured in a Central Park sex party. He was being held in tiny frontier jail with his brother and two other associates awaiting trial. They were told by the single jailer that a mob of men were planning to kill them. A friend of Smith managed to smuggle a pistol into the prisoners. A mob of 150-200 armed men, their faces painted black, stormed the jail and attacked. The 4 prisoners tried to fight back with the smuggled pistol and a single walking stick. Ultimately Smith and his brother were killed and the two others shot. Calling that event a “gunfight” deliberately misleads. Im sure that Trent has been informed by unfriendly LDS critics and hasn’t really fact checked. I wouldn’t expect him to. So I offer this information as a friendly correction to good faith critics.
That doesn't matter. We know he fought plenty in Missouri and only got into that situation by wrecking the newspaper that spoke against him and declaring marshall law. In the nicest terms the guy was a complete rogue
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii Paul has no formal teaching in history let alone hieroglyphics or Egyptology so I think I will trust the actual educated people over someone who has made LSD induced videos on RU-vid
@@davidlarssen15HAHAHA, priceless. Paul doesn't need to be an Egyptologist. As Joseph Smith, by revelation, translated the counterfeit (facsimiles) back to the true meaning.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii So he needs to have no formal education in a subject to refute those who do this is why Mormonism is false they put aside all logic and irrefutable facts and just have faith because your heart says its true. JEREMIAH 17:9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Jesus Christ (or a Mormon) and love this channel and am grateful for the respect you show despite our obvious disagreements. The only thing I would mention is that the King Follet sermon is not considered canon or scripture and that there is some disagreement on wheather or not God was once a man within the members of the church. I, for one, am in the camp that he has always been God like you do. Once again, love your channel and will continue to watch!
Practicing latter-day-saint here. All fair critiques. These are things I struggle with almost every day. I appreciate your gentleness and tone of compassion. We need more of this.
Just this morning was telling my husband about Medjugorje, the Marian apparition...he wanted to know to whom, to Joseph Smith??? No, Hunny. The Virgin Mary did not appear to Joseph Smith.
As a former Catholic and a current member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we absolutely believe in God. We are all God’s children. Deification or Theosis is as old as Christianity. This doesn’t make God any less of an eternal being and the creator of the universe.
As an Orthodox Christian, I enjoy your work. Brothers and sisters, let's pray for reconciliation and reunion. Dark days are coming for Christians and Christ's Body, East and West, need to be united.
If you do debate a Mormon please do not debate Kwaku El. (the Mormon from the clip you showed debating the protestants) He is a random party planner who only gets invited to do debates because he has a social media presence and is willing. I would recommend Robert S. Boylan who is a graduate of the Pontifical University of Ireland, and has published a few books on LDS thought. Behold the Mother of My Lord: Towards a Mormon Mariology was probably my favorite. He also used to be Roman Catholic, so he would be equipped to talk about differences in theology with out confusing common terms and words used between the two churches to say different things.
I was raised Mormon and must admit I'm no longer one but I do believe that the insistence that Mormons aren't Christian is hurting all Christians, we can learn alot from each other
At 6:26, I would totally dispute that Lehi's family crossed the Atlantic Ocean. His family fist went down to Arabia and crossed it, built a ship, and came over, and according to the Book of Mormon, landed on the seashore that bordered the West Sea. At 8:31 Trent makes mention that the Book of Abraham mentions "the gods" created the world as opposed to "God created the world" just for clarification the word "God" in Genesis chapter 1 is elohim, when you have the name "el" you have the singular masculine "God" when you have "eloh" you have the singular feminine word for god or goddess, elohim is the plural form of both of these words. Most scholars agree the Old Testament was written in three or four phases, the Elohist, those who worshipped the true Elohim as opposed to false pantheon such as Zeus and the Olympian gods, the priestly phase basically centered worship around the Tabernacle, the yahist who went a step further and centralized worship around one key God and Deuteronomist who centered yahwaist worship exclusively in Jerusalem To make it clear, Abraham was a elohist, that's why he paid tithes to Melchizedek priest of the mist high God (most high meaning others existed under the most high) Elijah was a Yawist literally having "Jehovah is God" in his name, but he built and performed burnt offerings outside of Jerusalem Josiah was a Deuternomist meaning he forced the worship of Jehovah into one location Jerusalem. Jesus honored the traditions of all four of those but also was critical of some aspects of each. In demonstrating his own Divinity he mostly appealed to elohist doctine
My inlaws are Mormon and I've always said that people join the church for the social structure, not the doctrines. The social structure is amazing. Truly nice people with lots of activities going on, and excellent support of families. But the doctrines........ 😬
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimalyou can't have one without the other...as most other churches have demonstrated while turning their nose at LDS theology.
@@HaleStorm49 no, there are very very many nice Protestant and Catholic churches too. With lots of families building community, good structure, members helping each other grow in virtue. So you can have the social structure without Mormon doctrine. My point was that Mormons have definitely got that going for them....and that's what's attracting people cause the doctrine is illogical.
@@scroogemcduckismyspiritanimal thinking illogically is like bullying. You can see it everywhere except in the mirror. Jesus taught us that it's not the seed it's the soil.
Tell me, without any doctrine from the LDS church, how does God save those that never heard about the gospel but are still under His spoken law that no one will enter the kingdom of God without baptism?
I would really enjoy it if you would do some more shows on this topic. I have studied Mormonism quite a bit, but I have great difficulty in showing the errors.
Mormon here, and I think this is the most thorough and well-intentioned explanation of my faith (and of the critics to it) I have seen from someone of a different faith. There were a few points that made me wonder how serious you were about your critique (like Joseph Smith being all in on it for the women and power, and what seemed like a skepticism that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is indeed a "Church"). But overall, you let the facts stand for themselves rather than ascribing a malicious motive to my church like many others do. In addition, I've watched many different Mormon apologists over the past 3 years and the one you featured in the James White debate is the one with whom I've had the most disagreements. He traps himself into defending some viewpoints that I would say are not consistent with Mormon doctrine, and I feel like he comes at a theological debate like a politician rather than a philosopher. He's fun to listen to at times and well-intentioned, but I don't think he's a good one to put as a standard of Mormon thought.
Being a member of the Church myself, there were several inaccuracies in this video that will give viewers, particularly non-members, false notions and ideas of what we actually believe. And much of what he shared and disagreed with he did so in ignorance. Whether he omitted and lied intentionally or not, I'm not sure, but it doesn't matter. The fact remains, viewers will get false ideas of the Church. For me, I never listen to apologetics. The whole point of them is to prove your point right and the other wrong. I have seen them before and that's why I don't listen or watch them. The Spirit has never been there for me.
@@TheForgottenMan270 I recently rewatched this video and I did pick up on a few other things that I didn't pay attention to before. There's no doubt that people will get false ideas of what we actually believe from this video, but I still say Trent is the least malicious and most well-intentioned apologist out there. From his tone and content, I am confident it comes from ignorance and not malice. To be honest, I don't listen to apologists to feel the spirit (for that I'd much rather listen to the Prophet and the Apostles). I do it to get a sense of why other people believe a certain doctrine, policy, or historical matter is the way it is so I can better adapt my own responses to concerns that people may have about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I've received my own answers on why things are the way the are (though I continue to seek revelation in case there is something more I'm missing), but my answers aren't exigent to everyone, especially if they aren't looking or for them.
So the fact that you can “become like god” didn’t raise a hug red flag? Considering that was the first lie told to humans by none other than the adversary?
"I say, the Word of God became a man, so that you might learn from a man how to become a god." - Clement of Alexandria "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms...also Jesus.
What the devil said was that Eve would be "like God," not that she would be a god. What he meant was that she, who until then in her innocence knew only good, would now know both good and evil the way God does. (Even though evil is a privation and can't properly be said to be known, nevertheless God knows it as a privation just as we do. The difference is that God knew it from all eternity, whereas we had to learn it through sinning.) And that is exactly what happened. The devil did not lie. What he lied about was that she would not die, and it was her belief of that lie and concomitant unbelief in God's promise that she would die that brought about her and Adam's downfall.
@@jackdaw6359 And how do you think Mormons mean it? I'm LDS...I've seen other LDS make weird claims about becoming capital "G" Gods and running a bunch of planets and whatnot...but that's certainly not what any official doctrine or scripture states at all. I promise you that THAT specific conception of theosis is nothing but pure, unauthoritative speculation.
I only listened to the first five minutes. I am amazed at how this guy twists the facts - big time. I was a very active Catholic and I understand the differences between both churches.
Wow i didnt know the post-gold plates stuff. I thought they were Christians plus gold plates story. The "God was one of us" bit turns them into something else entirely. No unmoved mover.
If you're going to start addressing Mormon truth claims then you need to be willing to have discussions/ debates with the best scholars we have to offer. I'd suggest inviting Robert Boylan or Blake Ostler on your show.
Thanks! I've read Boylan's blog and he has praised my work on pro-life and baptism. I'm open to maybe debating him in Utah if we can get scheduling figured out.
@@TheCounselofTrent Jacob Hansen also will do debates, he has debated the Trinity and source of authority before. His RU-vid channel is called Thoughtful Faith
The Great Apostasy is more nuanced and kinder to Catholics than what you described. Latter-Day Saints do not believe there has ever been an absolute loss of people who strived to do everything in their power to maintain Christ’s power. Clearly there has been extreme devotion to Christianity throughout history ever since Jesus came to Earth. The only parts of the Great Apostasy that Latter Day Saints believe were absolute were the break in apostolic succession due to lack of transference of Priesthood keys by laying on of hands and a lack of continuing revelation. Latter-Day Saints believe priesthood authority must be transferred by laying on of hands as a saving ordinance similar to baptism, endowment, and temple sealing. Although there may be historical evidence of apostles attempting to delegate responsibilities in a church hierarchy, there is not evidence that priesthood keys received from Christ by imposition of hands, or laying on of hands, were transferred by laying on of hands to successors before the original apostles were killed. Ultimately the validity of this belief stems back to whether or not Joseph Smith was telling the truth. The best way to determine that is to read the Book of Mormon. Most naysayers don’t put in the time. Just like there is no “proof” of God’s existence, there is no “proof” that the Book of Mormon is true. If you understood the Book of Mormon, you would admit that it is not logically disprovable. Academically, there is plenty of literary evidence that the Book of Mormon is true. There is very little archaeological evidence, but that is the inherent lacking nature of American archaeology. If one wants to have good evidence, what better evidence than from God? Discerning answers from the Holy Ghost is by definition subjective, but all human knowledge is by definition subjective. All that said, having profound spiritual experiences is possible. My knowledge is by definition imperfect, but I know the Book of Mormon is true.
I am active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I love the Lord and I fight for the rights of people to “worship how, where, and what they may”. This is core to our beliefs. The LDS church is one of the strongest and most outspoken fighters for religious liberty. Although we may have disagreements with other faiths, we will fight alongside you for your freedoms. We believe that the Constitution was divinely inspired. Freedom is crucial for God’s plan. I served my mission in Argentina and I was blessed to meet many wonderful Catholics. Such beautiful people! My heart was swoll with joy when I heard that Shia Lebouf had joined the Catholic faith. I am also a huge supporter of James Caviezel. My favorite movie is The Count if Monte Cristo and I recently watched Sound of Freedom. I am encouraging everyone I know to watch it.
@@spideyN8R Wrong. They do not believe Jesus was God in the flesh but was a preexisting spirit child of God the Father and Heavenly Mother. In fact, they believe that Jesus and Satan are both spirit children of God and are brothers. These beliefs are not consistent with believing that Christ is God. Mormonism simply isn't Christianity. It's something else.
Man, I used to be Mormon and the teach jeans that I learned were very, very corrupted not only that they taught that we could become gods one day, but the thing was I didn’t feel the spirit of God so I love the church and then I found myself into protestant where they talk about faith alone yeah I felt God in that, but it wasn’t the full truth, but the spirit of truth or Holy Spirit Brought me back home to the Catholic Church
Is it bad that I view Mormons as apologetics practice when I speak with them? It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute than something like Protestantism which is closer to what we believe. Great video Trent!
_"It’s just so far out there that it’s a lot easier to refute "_ LOL I have refuted Catholicism multiple times and the Catholics I was discussing with never even came close and are unable to refute my Church. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. We know and teach the Bible and gospel better than any other denomination. To put it bluntly, the gospel every other Christian denomination (including the Catholic Church) teaches is a watered down version of what God's and Jesus Christ true gospel really is. The Catholics corrupted the gospel. Rejoin God and Jesus Christ in their Kingdom and rejoin their true church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and learn all that they have to offer. Learn of their glory and mercy, learn of the plan they have of you
@@dylanwilliams2202 I was going to ignore you until I've seen multiple messages from you preaching a false Church. For your claim to be true that JW have the true Gospel, you'd have to show that the JW Bible is uncorrupted but you can't. Because if you compare the JW Bible to a Hebrew or Greek interlinear, we should find a true translation, but we don't. Here is just one example. Exodus 3:13-15 - Hebrew transliterated [13] way·yō·mer mō·šeh ’el-hā·’ĕ·lō·hîm, hin·nêh ā·nō·ḵî ḇā ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl wə·’ā·mar·tî lā·hem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·w·ṯê·ḵem šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; wə·’ā·mə·rū-lî mah-šə·mōw? māh ’ō·mar ’ă·lê·hem? [14] way·yō·mer ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el-’mō·šeh, ’eh·yeh ’ă·šer ’eh·yeh way·yō·mer, kōh ṯō·mar liḇ·nê yiś·rā·’êl, ’eh·yeh šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem. [15] way·yō·mer ‘ō·wḏ ’ĕ·lō·hîm ’el- mō·šeh, kōh-ṯō·mar ’el-bə·nê yiś·rā·’êl Yah·weh ’ĕ·lō·hê ’ă·ḇō·ṯê·ḵem, ’ĕ·lō·hê ’aḇ·rā·hām ’ĕ·lō·hê yiṣ·ḥāq wê·lō·hê ya·‘ă·qōḇ šə·lā·ḥa·nî ’ă·lê·ḵem; zeh-šə·mî lə·‘ō·lām, wə·zeh ziḵ·rî lə·ḏōr dōr. Exodus 3:13-15 - English translation of the Hebrew interlinear [13] And said Moses to God, suppose I come to the sons of Israel and shall say to them the God of your fathers has sent me to you. And they say to me what [is] His name? what shall I say to them? [14] And said God to Moses, I AM who I AM, and He said thus you shall say to the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you. [15] And said moreover God to Moses, thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, Yahweh God of your fathers - the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob has sent me to you. This [is] My name forever, and this [is] My memorial to all generations. Exodus 3:13-15 - JW NWT 2013 [13] But Moses said to the true God: “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’+ What should I say to them?” [14] So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose to Become.” + And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”+ [15] Then God said once more to Moses: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham,+ the God of Isaac,+ and the God of Jacob,+ has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever,+ and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation. Exodus 3:13-15 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Ed. [13] Moses said to God: Lo, I shall go to the children of Israel, and say to them: The God of your fathers hath sent me to you. If they should say to me: What is his name? what shall I say to them? [14] God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you. [15] And God said again to Moses: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me to you: This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exodus 3:13-15 RSVCE [13] Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” [14] God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” [a][b] And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’” [15] God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘The Lord,[c] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you’: this is my name for ever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. [a] Exodus 3:14 Or I am what I am or I will be what I will be [b] 3.14 The translation is uncertain; it is, therefore, difficult to decide whether this is a refusal to disclose the name or an explanation of the divine title Yahweh revealed immediately afterward. [c] Exodus 3:15 The word Lord when spelled with capital letters, stands for the divine name, YHWH, which is here connected with the verb hayah, to be In the Hebrew text of this passage, when God first answers Moses’s question as to what his name is, in verse 14, he says, ehyeh asher ehyeh is his name, which translates as “I am that I am.” But notice God then tells Moses, in that same verse, to tell “the sons of Israel I AM has sent me to you.” There, God says his name is more simply ehyeh, or “I AM.” Then, in verse fifteen, he declares to all that his name forever will be YHWH, commonly read and spoken as Yahweh, which translates basically the same as ehyeh asher ehyeh-“I AM THAT I AM,” or “I AM WHO AM,”. Yahweh, it would seem, was revealed as God’s formal name while the essence of his name, or the shorter version, if you will, is revealed simply as I AM. Metaphysically, this name reveals God to simply be. He has no beginning, no end, no lack of being; He is all perfection. He is existence itself. And this is his name. The New World Translation’s is "I Will Become What I Choose to Become" - I can't wait for you to explain how two Catholic translations are true to the text while your "Church" has falsified God's words. Show me which word of the Hebrew corresponds with which English word of NWT.
I wouldn't go as far as considering them as even Protestants but as a separate creature altogether, mimicking hints of Christian beliefs like a camouflage but ultimately different.
Mormons arent even protestants. Mormons deny the Trinity - the most important and pivotal belief of the Christian faith as it centers around who God is in essence. Since they deny the Blessed Trinity, a belief found in ancient Christianity amidst some heresies brewing, they can never have valid baptisms. Mormons are Christian and I do not say this gleefully. It's a tragedy.
Time-stamp 0:18, 0:55 - Is Mormon persecution comparable to the persecution of the disciples? 14:35 - Isaiah 43:10, Trent Horn argues that false gods and idols cannot be in view here because many are still being formed to this day. 19:00, 21:00 - Book of Abraham
I am not Morman because it makes no sense. Addition: While I haven’t changed my mind about Mormanism making no sense, upon reflection, your summary helped me to understand something that has always bugged me; why protestants, particularly evangelicals, usually throw Catholicism & Mormanism into the same bucket on the basis that they think Catholics treat the Trinity, BVM & saints as mutliple gods, which is not the doctrine of the Church, but you know how arguing with a stone wall goes. I found a recent survey on religion that showed while adherence to a/any religion in the west is declining, Catholicism seems to be holding its own. While obviously there are many variables at play in that (particularly given that the Church hierarchy is bereft of quality & faithful clerics) I have been struck by what appears to be an interesting trend - conversion to Catholicism. For a while I thought it was just me, but the other day Church Militant ran a piece on the number of people (some high profile) converting. Again given the current state of the clergy, one has to assume the attraction is in the dogma, which has certainly stood the test of time, certainly more so than Mormanism. On last point, I thought the clip you played on the ‘debate’ interesting. When all logic/reasoning failed, the only thing the Morman had left was miracles, which, based on his behavior, falls into the category that if you repeat something often enough, it becomes true. Anyway, thanks for the segment.
You totally have missed what Protestants believe about the Trinity: and the Catholic Trinity is very similar to the Protestant Trinity: Mormonism is vastly different from any trinitarian ✝️Christian tradition.
A Protestant once said his biggest reason for not being a Mormon is that "Mormon" is not in the bible..to which he was told neither is Protestant..to which he said "but not everything has to be in the bible"😒
If Christ allowed his Church to teach error for 1700 years, what does that say about his faithfulness and reliability? How could we possibly trust “new” revelation that contradicts previous revelation? Without a divinely-appointed and protected guardian of the deposit of faith from the very moment of the founding of his Church, anything goes…as we see in the chaos of Sola Scriptura.
That's the reason I'm a Latter-day Saint. While I get Kyle's objections about Joseph Smith based on actions like the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, it really isn't a stretch for a critic of Catholicism (whether Latter-day Saint or not) to point to the worst of the Papacy and say that, if they are supposed to be infallible, then the fact that they are fallible (and objectively worse than Smith, who as a Prophet never claimed he was infallible) renders the Catholic Church and its offshoots (Protestantism) false.
@DudeNamedDuncan to be fair, I understand that, and to be honest, that's not all that different with our belief in Prophetic authority. I'm mainly saying that if you're going to criticize Joseph Smith's actions as a means to delegitimize the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it's not that strong of an argument, given the wicked actions of certain Popes in the past. And, to be honest, I'm glad that's not Kyle's only argument.
@@ericwolford5685I would disagree as Joseph Smith was a founder of something new or theoretically the restorer of something 1700 years old that was lost although we have zero evidence of it being lost. So if his character screams con man: It would undermine his mission. Same with St Peter and St Paul etc. It was pertinent that the foundation of Christianity be holy and far from being seen as a con. But if you can believe God abandoned humanity to a folly of only false doctrines and yet produce our saints, you can believe anything. My response to Mormonism is this: God gave me a burning in the bosom, telling me the mass is true and the Catholic church is true. This means nothing in debates. History is why I chose to be Catholic. The eternal God of Israel was true and always had people and communicated clearly with them. When Our Lord fulfilled all the prophecies there was nothing else to be waiting for. No prophecy would confirm Joseph Smith or Mohammed or anyone else. With zero prophecies to confirm them and with no problems one sending Smith, but an apparent angel of heaven. All Christians rightfully rejected it as something new. And not a restoration because a brief inquiry in history doesn't show LDS beliefs anywhere.
One of the odd things about Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon has some verses with trinitarian/monotheistic language. 2 Nephi 31:21 - "...And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen." Mormon 7:7 - "...unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." Alma 11:26-29 - "And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God? And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No."
Apparently, there’s some controversy on this one in LDS circles. I brought this one up at work once mentioning that since I grew up around a lot of LDS (my grandfather’s sister married one of Orrin Hatch’s nephews), I thought having caffeine-free Dr Pepper around all the time was normal. When I mentioned that the LDS members can’t have caffeine, an LDS coworker, and BYU grad, quickly corrected me on this. All of that is anecdotal, obviously, but there are at least some Mormons that are ok with caffeine. -Kyle
@@lukehanson_Am I correct in thinking that Doctrine and Covenants prohibits consuming hot drinks? I read it 30 years ago when I was a Catholic missionary in Japan and came across Mormon missionaries on several occasions. I thought I recalled reading that prohibition.
For any Christians that do not understand atheism; Please be aware that the way that Christians see Mormons is similar as the way atheists see Christians. Hope that helps somewhat.
