Andreas, I can't even begin to describe to you how indispensable you are to the maker community! Thank you for everything you do! I would love to see your explanation of battery powering devices. Keep up the great videos, as always!
Question: if I want to connect my phone to a buck converter ran by a battery, do I need to worry about the amp capacity of the battery frying my phone? Does a phone limit amperage used?
@@AndreasSpiess You could also say a few words about "wires" -- people have a lot of trouble with esp32 brownouts that seem to be caused by long thin wires -- either cheap usb cables, or breadboard wires -- coming from a decent battery or usb supply, but the wires can't handle the current.
I love the "swiss guy" method of checking how hot the regulator gets , also as Cristi Istrate battery and solar charging for a remote weather station would be great to see, again thanks for the great info :)
This method is actually used planet-wide. It works as long the reaction time by the tester is quicker than a rapid temperature increase. Putting some water on a fingertip will give you little bit more time to react.
Using your calibrated finger as a thermal sensor brings back memories from my old power supply design days. We would touch a hot device and if you could say 'supercalifragilisticexpialidocious' without removing your hand its ok. An approach that proved surprisingly accurate when confirmed with more sophisticated thermal instrumentation.
Andreas your brain is like a black hole soaking up all knowledge then firing it out like a beam of inspiration across the network... thank you for sharing
Yes battery vid probably now the most useful as most will use this type to power projects. Alsoand for an alternative update the UPS video and more boards about
Thanks a million. I am still playing with my web radio. I recently rebuilt it, trying to use my 12 volt cell built from an old Apple Laptop battery. What used to be a very clear, wonderful sounding radio now has a horrid hum playing behind the music or talk. I hope that when you get to the battery part of this series the answer to my problem will come up. Oh my mind needs the distraction now, you see we met with the doctor Friday and were told that my good wife of 51 years has a rare version of cancer in her stomach and liver. They can't tell yet, how aggressive it is because it has been known to be nearly benine to very aggressive. Right now they put her in the mid scale. She is home from hospital right now on very strong pain meds, and going through hell. It breaks my heart to see her like this but I guess it's all part of getting old. We should be hearing from the specialist that has been assigned her case next week so we know what treatments are available, and, well, how aggressive we can expect it to be.
@Andreas Spiess Thank you I think the swiss guy method to check the heat sink temperature damage your finger ;-) To take an external adapter is for most hobbyist the best solution. No high voltage inside the system. Maybe also less EMC problems. To take one of the silver chassis power supplies a hint for earth connection seems recommended. Also if people take a more power full power supply for low power systems as ESP or Raspberry Pi an additional fuse on 5V side is also recommended. Otherwise a short circuit on DC could damage your application. A fire also could damage your room or house. Sometimes I saw on youtube that people take an adapter or silver chassis power supply --> psu inside a box without ventilation holes. Then you have to measure inside temperature and check datasheet of psu to find out at derating curve which power the psu will deliver at 50 or 60 degree. Attention! The power supply will not derate automatically. Good ventilation with fan or holes is also suggestet.
I always have to concentrate a lot to get videos short. So I cannot cover all aspects. Concerning fuses: There you can see the character of a person. I would check that aspect before marriage. My character tends to "fewer fuses" ;-)
Sorry but I had to stop at 2:51 and go to video 244 where you gave me a revelation and now I am trying to make my powerbank output 12v!!! I will carry on with this video later :D
Sunday morning: sun, croissant, coffee & Andreas answering my project questions. A good way to start the day. Thanks andreas ! Ps. From across the room my gf says you sound way younger.
Andreas, when it comes to USB Power Delivery, consider taking a look at the ZY12PDN. These use a button to select between 5, 9, 12, 15, and 20v. You can hold the button down when plugging it in to select the voltage it powers up at, which is really convenient.
@@AndreasSpiess No, but if you hold down the button when you first plug it in, it will start blinking. Pick the voltage, then long-press. It saves it to internal flash, so the next time it comes in, it has the right voltage. It's not as obvious as it should be.
Lol I knew "The swiss guy method" as the "fingermeter", it is truly a unique sensor. Thanks for this video though! Some time ago, to avoid learning about all this and to make my life easier, I used an old PC PSU for a project which needed 12v, 5v and 3.3v, be aware though that some need a minimum voltage to operate but in my case some lamps at 12v, an rpi3 + sensors at 5v and multiple sensors at 3.3v was enough to not trigger that protection: it is also excellent for really power hungry devices as my old PSU can handle bursts of a combined 180w on the 3.3v and 5v rails and 23A on the 12v rail. That being said, unless you are building a PC, most of the time this will be overkill. As always, great video, learned a lot from it!
Dear Andreas I'm happy to see that you are somehow using my parametric box designs to make your boxes I might be wrong though... but if I helped YOU I'm more than happy to help an hero of mine! LOL. Would like to love one of batteries and solar power!
I fully agree with Daily Cake Slice. Among the Development Board drawings I sent you, there is a new idea for battery power or main power. For batteries you can use a good size 6V, charged by solar and then go to MCP 73123 charger to a 3.3V Lifepo4 Battery to run the ESP WiFi. It hasn't been tested.
There are only a few chargers which also handle LiFePo. If I remember right, the TP5000 uses the MCP 73123. And you are right, LiFePos are a good choice for ESP projects...
As always many thanks. My current project is an environmental sensor using the LoRa technology (TTGO LORA32, BME280 plus an analog temp sensor, LiPO 1S battery, maybe solar charger). For use in lobster and mussel farming. Working on the electrical requirements now (i.e. voltage supervisor?, regulator needed?, anything else?). Hoping to get 2 years maintenance free. Looking forward to your next video.
Perhaps you already covered it in repairs, but 1st thing always check all your VCC s when troubleshooting. I remember learning this in EE lab 1 after undoing a bunch of wire wrap connections and other things unnecessarily... Saves a lot time.
Alway love old server power supplies. Love buck boost converts. Batteries may need to cover super caps to mate. Stay safe Andreas. We are back to 20 people allow at house here in Australia.
I do not have a lot of projects where I need strong 12 volt supplies. If you have one, a server PS is a good choice. We are still at 5 persons. But traffic jams are back, which seems to be a good sign ;-)
Thank you Andreas, excellent video. Although it confirmed my assumption that recycling the usb power adapters in the house is the best methhod for powering my simple projects I learned 2 important lessons: 1- I have been wondering for YEARS why anyone would still choose a linear power adapter, when the newer switching models were so much smaller, efficient and cheaper. You answered this very clearly. 2- I also had bought a number of 7805's "just in case" I need them - since they seemed to be so commonly used in many projects - but I also read some people dismissing them as inferior compared to other regulators. Now I know what they are talking about. Finally: Yes please I would be very interested in a similar video about battery powering options.
I am very elementary to this power supply stuff and don't know a thing really. I know I need to watch what I am up to with my 3.3v and 5v sensors with my Arduino's and such - barely. But... ...a coverage on batteries would be good because with people looking for green/renewable energy resources, rechargeable battery power supplies might be of interest to some. Such very thorough work as always Andreas - thank you.
I should say my preference in case they are both possible has completely shifted from the analog regulator to the switching regulator. So in a case like your keyer, while in many old projects I have used 78xx regulators, today I would immediately go for the switching buck converter. This is mainly because the complexity that was always around switching regulators (how to find suitable components and make it work OK) has been completely taken away by those small ready-made modules like you showed. I just get one of those Chinese modules I order 10 at a time from AliExpress both for fixed and variable voltages and use them without any problem... and no more heat issues. In case I quickly need a supply and have only larger voltage supplies I often take such a module, solder standard black/red supply cable to it and then put a length of heatshrink tubing around it. It can then be used between the lab supply or a wallwart and the project and there is no risk of shortcircuit when it is on the table or somewhere in a corner of the case.
Again another great video :) I’m building a large 16^3 led cube with pl9823 leds. If you calculate the power i need -> 60mA x 4096 x 5v = 1200 watt... So i bought 4 60A, 5V powersupplies, thick wire for 15A, per 256 leds. The proof of concept works. But i also want a kind of standby mode. Leds that are powered, but off, use arround 1mA... Thats 20 watt when off.... So how i was thinking using mosfets to turn all power off (need to switch the 5v, not ground, according to adafruit guide) but with 240A total those mosfet resistances RDSon will also have a huge impact. There is some overlap with battery powered project here (minimize quiescence current). Always something to learn... I’ll think i’ll go read in my electrical engineering book and figure out what to do with those huge current, but watching your youtube video’s is so much more fun ;-)
Great video as always! Hand tip: if you have decided to use a 7805 and then find it's cooking, you can replace it with a 1-2450-TRACOPOWER which has the same pin out but will deliver 1A comfortably. Not nearly as cheap as the 780x series, but very handy on a PCB. It's a switcher so no heatsink. From memory the drop out voltage is about 1.5v, and you can use up to about 30v on the supply side.
yes yes yes, please do a video about battery powering devices. I always have difficulties to find good booster, and if I should try to get an all-in-one board (charger & battery protection &booster), or if it is better to have everything separated. Also interesting would be a discussion in very low power devices, i.e. I have an arduino and RFM22 sending data every 5 minutes working on a single AA battery for 4 to 5 years!
Your videos are always wonderful, but this was was especially good. Very clear, concise, friendly, educational, and super-helpful. I feel much more confident in my knowledge of this topic now, and what choices I have available. Thank you!
A current project I'm working on requires 5 V to power the MCU and various software controlled outputs via USB as well as switching mains on and off via an isolated relay board. I may also need to add some fans for air circulation, also software controlled, which will need a 12 V supply. This video couldn't have come at a better time. Current plan is to hack a socket mount power adapter with built in USB outputs, add a fused power socket with switch, and mount a 240 V socket with switch on the back so mains devices don't need to be butchered to make them compatible. Will be able to add a ground connection too, something that is frequently absent in cheap products even if it would be desirable to have such a thing installed. And yes, a battery version would be grand too! Many thanks.
Well. You could work around having to drop down a high voltage at high currents. If you buck regulate down to 1 volt over what you are requiring and then linearly regulate from there. Thus the voltage dropped by the linear regulator is small compared to not having the buck regulator and this makes the setup much more stable and much more efficient.
Hello Andreas, sure we are interested in power supply with batteries. As you comment in the video please consider also to investigate how to avoid noises on PIR ans radar sensors with our loved esp modules. Battery powered with mqtt could be a great intrusion alarm system but the false positive now makes it poor realistic with the ESP modules.
Laptop power supplies are great if you need a bit more power. They are mostly well-built, safe, compact, widely available and their typical 19V output is easy to buck down at the point of load as many switchers accept up to 24V. For OCD sufferers who don't want to cut off the nicely molded original plug it can be a challenge to find the matching input jack :-)
Andreas, I agree with the compliments and appreciation expressed below. Also, when you discuss battery power options in a planned video, would you consider adding ideas for monitoring the battery voltage and using LoRa to send periodic measurements to the cloud? I want to show trend graphs and send low batt alerts for remote AREDN radio sites on 12v solar systems. Many thanks!!!
Battery apps usually push the size/weight envelope? Almost always multi-rail boost? Inevitably requiring custom board(s)? Layouts become sensitive? Switching frequencies sometimes important? Surely there are tricks and maybe preferred components to accomplish? Maybe a graph/chart or two of operating space vs solution(s)? Especially the ultra-low-power end? A magnetometer measuring once per second or lidar measuring once per ten-minutes, for example?
@@AndreasSpiess - You asked what we wanted to hear about in your upcoming battery video? Just my two-cents that it skew towards ultra-low-power vs C or D-cell applications? Where small is as important as efficiency? Thanks for responding.
One remark concerning the 5V on the wemos. There is a diode between the USB and the 5V pin on the linear regulator. This diode lowers the voltage by 0,5V or more. Sometimes (if you power other modules using the 5V pin on the wemos) this might play a role. In the end it is better to connect power direct to the 5V pin.
If you know of a good buck-boost chip that is easy to calculate and design for, I would be interested. I have my references saved for the MC34063 and UC3842. I've used the MC34063 several times. I've modified circuits with the UC3842, but still haven't built anything from scratch. The inability to measure inductors accurately makes me hesitate to build something over 10-20 watts from scratch. I would rather use a working mains power brick design and modify it to suit my needs. I would probably need something like a component calculator for a buck-boost topology. This is how I got started with the MC34063 and UC3842. The key for me was a calculator that allowed me to change values on the fly. For instance, I can input the frequency, voltage, current, and acceptable ripple noise, and things like the inductance and component values are given. Lots of tools can do this, but the most effective ones can reverse the calculation. Meaning, I can modify the initial results to change the inductance value and see the way it influences voltage/current/noise. This allows me to design something based on what I already have laying around. Ultimately, I need either a thorough breakdown of the topology and application, or I need a way to plug my values into the simplest possible equations to get started. I have salvaged a couple of buck-boost circuits from old wireless computer mice, but the datasheets for the chips I've seen are not very good, usually not in English either. I don't have a go-to example I am confident I can replicate. Thanks for the upload. -Jake
I once started to watch some videos about the construction of power supplies and decided not to start with this "science". So I do not know particular chips. I buy them on boards. BTW you get reasonably priced LCR meters (I have a DE-5000) and even the cheap transistor testers were quite accurate when I did a few comparisons.
Quiescent current or just in general efficiency of the PSU may not be the first thing to worry in mains powered projects but I think you could mention that we always should set ourselves a goal of creating power-efficient devices. The few more mA taken by old PSU may not make a real-world difference but it is about the mind-set 😉 I don't know what if it fits your plan for battery episode but I'd love to hear of a scenario like "battery charger -> battery -> device" so this is like "battery backuped project". Anyway, well done, looking forward to next episode 😁
Stand-by energy is important if you sell millions of devices, I agree. Humans could save a lot of energy by not driving to the next supermarket or, even worse, to the fitness center, by staying around the house for holidays or WE, etc.
Good one. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I agree completely with your thinking and would be interested in how you approach this topic from a battery-supplied application. Thanks again!
Lol, the swiss guy method was the 60 degrees rule during my electronics class. If you could put your finger on for 5 seconds the temperature is less than 60 degrees.
That was useful and interesting and I'd definitely be interested in a battery edition. One type of power supply I like for small mains projects are the little potted mains to 3.3V or 5V power supplies that you can get on AliExpress for a few pounds. They are small and work well if you want to wire the power supply in permanently.
@@AndreasSpiess You are quite right, it was at 2:20 - I missed it first time round because I had to get my dog to stop barking at the post man (delivering a parcel from AliExpress, appropriately enough). The ones I use are much smaller than that (probably no more than a quarter of the size) and are a lot more clearly labelled but otherwise, probably very similar.
There are some good videos out for ripple (EEVBlog, for example) and for safety yoou also find many videos.... And I left this link in the description: lygte-info.dk/info/ChargerIndex%20UK.html
I'd be interested to see if the linear regulator is actually (electrically) quieter than a buck converter. The linear will propagate the ESP32's noise over the 12V line in addition to the keyboard power line. A switcher will usually be filtered a bit more, and might just reduce the ESP's noise more than a linear.
Thank you for all your work. Only a small problem in this one : the arrow showing voltage are strangely oriented (input, output, drop voltage, ...) we generaly use the arrow head to point the more positive wire : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_sign_convention . - comparing riple and other EMC parameters between switching and linear could give more acurate choice parameter - batery properties (Nixx or Lixx or Pbxx) and charging/discharging is well documented (in french) on ni-cd.net
@@AndreasSpiess At least my Ender 3 qualifies. Or it doesn't, because its power supply fan runs at full speed no matter what. There are guides to remedy that but I am a bit reluctant to mess with mains voltage.
Grüezi Andreas, many thanks (again) for this video - while I “somehow” knew how to power my projects I do now have a very structured approach to it. I’d love to see the battery video - greetings ausm großen Kanton ;-)
Any chance you could do an episode on spread spectrum switching converters? They vary the frequency randomly around the center frequency. This lowers peak power at the center frequency and makes it easier to filter out switching noise. I've been keeping my eye out for such a project, but haven't seen anyone do a video on one yet.
Also nice to know: human pain limit is around 50 degrees centigrade. So you should have some cooling room but it's good practice to try to stay below 50C for homebrew projects.
A few months ago I tried to use one of those ADS1115 ADC boards with an 3.3V arduino. The adafruit library doesn't tell you this, but the sample rate actually degrades if you don't power it with 5V. But you also wouldn't notice it, unless you are sampling in continuous mode and using the ready pin or wondering why the values seem to change slower than expected....
Useful thanks and try not buy cheap no brand chargers I have seen one (a Samsung fake)and when I asked the amperage the guy said 270wats (?) and the brand name is “Orignal”. You might buy it and just forget it over time it dies and causes trouble. For small converters I keep some small heatsinks around.
If you do not have a basic knowledge about any products, you have to trust the supplier. Here is a good page: lygte-info.dk/info/ChargerIndex%20UK.html concerning power supplies
It would be very interesting to investigate rechargeable battery power in cold weather applications - lithium batteries are revolutionary but they can not be charged at temperatures below 0C. Lead based batteries seem to be the only viable alternative as far as I have read.
@@AndreasSpiess There are some solutions to lithium charging but warming the batteries does not lend itself well to small projects. I have heard promising things about some LiFe cells that claim to be rechargeable down to -20C but they do not seem to be commonly available.
So many times i wish i could talk to an expert like you, when i have questions about electronics in one of my projects (i'm more a programmer). You should train an AndreasGPT so we can chat with it..