347 STROKER vs JUNKYARD 351W-SBF DYNO DUEL! 

Back in the 70's I was a chevy guy then a mopar guy and it always amazed me at how often these ford 302's used to come along and give us such grief by being beaten by them time and time again to the point that I eventually became a ford guy too and still am after all these years. I still like chevies and mopars as well and there's nothing like American iron and just the sound of these engines reving up still excites me no matter which brands they are.

Love when you do sbf testing

Stunning results with the 351 Edelbrock package

1 thing not mentioned is the 347 is a fresh motor with 30 over pistons, 351 is junkyard standard bore low compression with who knows how many miles.

You don't do things wrong , man . You test . I like tests , especially when someone else is doing it 🙃

One thing I noticed when going from a 351w to a 302w was a very obvious improvement in handling and steering response with the 302w

Unless one is constrained by space limitations a 351 is the better choice for an all around performance choice. More torque and horsepower in the everyday useable range all the way up to 6000 RPMs in this example PLUS, big plus, the 351 is much less stressed than the 347 and will be far more durable over the long run.

Very well explained. I’m a strong believer that a motors potential to make power is solely based on its displacement. All other things being equal, the higher motor will win. If you put the right heads/cam in a 351 it’ll rev out to 6500 too. And make more power than the 347. Keep it up. You know your stuff

I love your graphical presentations of the results. That is the ONLY way to see any differences. Thanks.

GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!! SOMETHING I AM CONSIDERING FOR THE FUTURE!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH!!!!

I'd take the 351 hands down ... more peak torque, and more HP and torque across 80% of the usable power RPM band. "HP sells cars, torque wins races" - Carol Shelby

351 with Edelbrock top end package, bang for the buck!!

Wouldn't we all like to see a comparison test where both engines had the same spec cam, and the same heads. Plus the same compression ratios. That way we could judge the configuration differences on an apples to apples basis.

Thanks for the vid! I like both engines. The Windsors are beasts. As always, it depends on your specific demands placed upon your specific engine build. My old 1981 Bronco is going to have different demands placed upon the same powerplant as a 1984 Mustang GT 5.0.

Great video. Final thoughts are right on target (in my opinion). Keep em coming Richard.

More sbf

I thought the same thing about the stroke. Dam bro u are the man wish I had ur guided info years ago.lot of respect!

Super informative tests, and videos!

The difference in the weight of the crank, rods, and pistons comes into play, plus adding some more camshaft timing and lift would be easy in the 352! When you've split that 302 block that heavy 351 will still be thumping! Wouldn't waste my time! Been there, done that!!

Yepsir. In conclusion, they both rock.

Love the 351w’s especially in my Foxbody. The junkyard 351 with the Heads and cam swap with the 750 carb is very impressive gains!!! I don’t have the head and cam swap but I run a RPM intake with a 750 carb. The torque difference between it and the 5.0 is crazy.

Never mentioned but these 2 have very different rod/stroke ratios. Great information in these videos as real world tested power shows that displacement + airflow = power. Really puts into perspective where money & effort is best spent.

Like the videos. The 351 combo here looks nearly perfect for my 94 f150 build. Lot of other factors near tho, rod stroke ratios!! Think that's a big factor in the curve too. That 9.5 deck height and 5.969 rod makes for a good street motor. After years of watching 347's self distruct I'd never have one tho. Wrist pin in the oil ring land! 7500rpm passes, weak stock blocks, po boys need to build one motor that will stay together. Been awhile but I think 347 rods are 5.4" at best! Just think about a good set of heads on a Dodge 360 with those 6.2" rods! Run forever if you don't spray it to death!

This guy has the best channel on youtube hands down

GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!! I AM CONSIDERING BOTH OPTIONS FOR MY EDSEL. MY MAIN CONCERN IS PARTS AVAILABILTY RIGHT NOW. AND I WANT TO ADD A SUPERCHARGER AS WELL. WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION. GREAT VIDEO AND THANKS FOR SHARING!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH.

Oh heck . I watched again , lol 😆 now I'm confused 😕. Guess I gotta watch it again .

I'd like to see the same test run with both blocks running the same set up with the same compression. The power would be nearly identical but it would be interesting to see exactly how much difference and the shape of the curve.

Looking to build a 347 for a Sleeper project. This channel is great.

Love the SBF, Thanks!

Those are the cream of the crop from Ford. 4ci and stroke variants change it identifiably so. WOW 🤩

Good explanation between the 2 engines

What about we take the used 302 pistons left over from the 347 conversion (hopefully forged flat tops), stick them in the 351 with a 3.850 stroke crank with stock 351 rods, make an easy 11:1 and run right the hell away from that 347. :)

Precisely the topic I want to explore!!

I'd be interested in seeing the results of a leak down test on both engines.

Haven't got through all your Vids yet. Curious if you have done any testing on combos for making low RPM torque for rock crawling or towing. Love to see a torque off with the 440, 454 and 460's or stroker variants that could drop into 70's and 80's pickup trucks. Love the videos.

Can you do a comparison between a big bore(94mm) 5.0 Ford Mod motor vs a Stroked 5.0 Mod motor? Id love to see the difference in HP/TRQ Also love to see the effects of unshrouding the valves

The short deck SBF with its smaller diameter main journals for this engine size comparison is superior in terms of RPM potential and being lighter and physically smaller is idealized for smaller cars. A 351 based stroker crank makes more sense for the overbuilt Windsor, and more idealized for larger cars and trucks.

Ima thinking that the engines would have made near identical power with the same compression ratios. Splitting hairs at that point.

As always, great vid! I would like to see two things in future videos: 1. How much impact has the ignition system (points, Pertronix (I-III), Duraspark ect). Doe it have an impact and if yes under what conditions. 2. Comparison of exhaust manifolds of a 289 (stock, HiPo, shorty and long headers). This would be awesome!

The compression ratio is probably the factor.....replace those stock pistons in the 351 with some flat tops and it would be a monster.

Love the tests

Have any tests directly comparing carb size? Like what really happens when you run too small or too big a carb? Maybe the results are similar to what happens when you have “too big of runner” on a small motor. Would be interesting. Like 3-4 carbs on stockish motor and then the same 3-4 carbs on a modified version of that motor.

After fitment comes cost. Finding a running 347 in the yard is highly unlikely.

Or how about direct comparison between Holley efi systems and fitech system have friend with a fitech system but I think its junk needs to b replaced with Holley carb... but would love to see what they both have potential for

and these same rules apply across the big three and their respective engines of yesterday. Nice comparison

Great vid! So the big Windsor is bulkier and heavier but it'll crank that power out for a quarter million miles whereas a 347 is lucky to do 50K. Easy choice if it's going in a truck.

Milder 351 stock stroke and rotating assembly basically has the same power as a high dollar, fitment required unit. The moral of the story is, "There is no replacement for displacement.".

I was wondering why the 351 was producing more low end torque and the extra runner length makes sense and camshaft differences make sense.

How much difference inn compression and combustion chamber sizing which comp is best same with combustion chambers ???? These videos are great thankyou

Interesting video, thanks for making it. What is your opinion about how rod/stroke ratio affects the results, assuming everything else was the same?

Richard you need to do a mild home ported cylinder head test with whatever engine preferably LS .

What's your opinion of the 351 crank? I've always heard, and it makes sense to me, that the 351 has big 460 sized 3" main bearings and a resulting big, heavy crank - which leads to a lazy revving engine and high bearing spin speed at RPM. The 347, as with all 8.2 engines, has smaller 2.25" mains and a lighter crank, resulting in a more spirited engine that's happier to rev. You can't feel that on a dyno but you can under your foot.

Very informative

Back in 1984 a friend and i were driving thru kansas City, one fine spring day. I had a 1971 ford Maverick Grabber 302 with a 3 speed manual transmission. We drove by a 1969 Mach One Mustang that was For Sale, in front of a Auto Parts store. We turned around and went inside. The older guy said it was his sons car he was selling. He took us to the back to some stairs and said "My son live upstairs go wake him up" So, we go upstairs the guy is a senior in high school just like us. I told him i was interested in the car and could we check it out.. He said ok if you will smoke a Doobie with me first. We were like "Far Out Man". So, we were talking and i asked him about the car. He said it used to be his dads, and it had a 351 Windsor with a 4 speed manual trans. He said his dad who owned the shop was a U.S. Army Vietnam vet. He said he bought it after he got back when it was two years old. He said he rebuilt the engine and modified it. He took us outside popped the hood said it had a 750 carb, It had Aluminum intake head work 10.5.1 pistons. I noticed on the front it had a vanity tag that said "Chevy Eater" He said his dad used to race it. He said he would drive it first t hen let me drive it. He fired it up and it sounded incredible. He got out on the highway and burned the tires thru third gear let up a little it grad and to off like and Arrow. We were completely Amazed by the Brute power this thing had. He then let me drive it and i could not believe how much raw power it had. I had driven my friends 1971 Dodge Challenger 440 4 speed with dual 4's and this 351 Windsor would have waxed it. I got the guys number and drove back to Topeka, went to the bank to get the loan. I called the guy later that afternoon. He said that he sold it to the next guy that had drove it. That car had to have well over 500 Horsepower....

These vids are giving me the itch to pull my 89 notch out of storage.

Well done,what about lighter Bob weight of 347 rotating assembly.

It would have been interesting to run the exact same top end on both engines! Just to see what changes the longer I take runners on the 351w do differently! Imo it’s really hard to compare bottom ends configurations without using the exact same top end combos. Interesting video tho.

People talking about a new fresh motor against a junkyard wore out motor being a disadvantage but people forget loose is fast. Thats why they always run best right before it blows

PERFECT timing R.H. ! ! I just sold my LQ4 block/gen4 rods/pistons/317s to build a 347 out of a vintage '68 302 casting block for my '68 coupe ! !

Interesting tests.

I actually bought this xfi cam from you a few months back. I’m putting it in a low buck 393 stroker for my fairmont wagon. Eagle cast 3.850 crank, stock rods, and 302 pistons. You Xfi cam and air gap intake with Victor jr heads. Shooting to make over 500 streetable horsepower. Fingers crossed.

I'm guessing the 351 would be the better engine for urban street use.

I would have guessed the 347 with higher rpm would have had 50 more hp than the 351w.That old junkyard dog has some bite. Love my 351w in my old heavy f150.Shes a old sleeper with a whole lot of bite.

Good presentation. I was going to expound on a point but he covered it. Meaning "Windsor" style Ford heads and they need that split duration in the cam because they don't breathe....compared to a as built high performance head.

Can you do a lima 2.3 turbo build?

Good work Richard. Just as i expected between the two engines. And everything you said is true. Mick from australia

Back in ‘93 I owned a 90 Mustang LX 5.0L that I wanted a Crawford 347 stroker so badly. But it was cost prohibitive. I was just 22. Ended up spending money on my short block at Nat’s Racing Engines in Seakonk, Ma. Threw on aluminum Edelbrock heads, low compression Paxton VR4 and a little 125HP shot of juice in 3rd gear went 11.7 @124MPH. That was driven easy no powershifting I only had a T5. Always wanted to see what a 347 would have done.

Awesome video. As far as fitment on the 351. Doesn't it and a LS share the same deck height? Or really similar? Thanks Richard

Have you done a 347 sbf Vs. 347 sbf??? one with the 3.4 stroke and one with the 3.25 stroke? It would be interesting to me to see this. Everyone always says, "No replacement for displacement" them again, i suppose you did explain that in this video lol

351 Windsor is King 👑 once I had my first 351 Windsor I will never ever do a 302 ever again.

I would have liked to see the B.S.F.C figures for each engine, that what tell me which is best for street use on a regular basis. I am sort of guessing the 351 would get the better fuel economy? Thanks.

As for making a 351 fit in a Mustang, there are tubular k members that drop it down so you can use a stock hood.

Big block type power without the weight, actually surprised. With the aluminum heads, intake, use of aluminum water pump and headers I wouldn't be concerned about the weight factor for my truck and the 351W is a stouter block. Will work for my application and save a lot of $$$.

Richard, great job as always! I would like to see you compare a 408 Chevy small block vs a Ford 408 stroker vs a Mopar 408 stroker. Identical components as possible. See who wins!

The curiosity is runner length from the different deck height

I ran a 347 stroker against a small block 388 Chevy stroker rear view mirror race the 347 tryed to keep up but no dice but tryed

Enjoy doing things the easy way with off-the -shelf parts while you can. If the environazis at the slimy EPA have their way you will be casting up your own heads and manifolds in a pit dug in your backyard (the way it all started with performance castings) and machining your own camshafts/stroker cranks from a chunk of steel.

Hey Richard can u do 363 ford stroker with trick flow high port 225 with r style intake Vs afr set up with the afr intake set up an do soild roller

Well, you compaired a junk yard bottom end to a build 347ci. One thing you didn't mention, is a 351w stock block, will hold 800hp conservatively, more if built right. 347ci , 302 base will only hold 500-600 ish , one over rev or one too many hard launches on sticky tires and block split/ cracks right down valley. This I've learned this from experience, building theses. In addition, the 347ci made more power up top because of cam duration and higher lift. I would of loved to see both side by side .030 builds 351vs 302, Same cam, same Heads. On Dyno. Cheers, Keep on Dreaming 👌

Great video, have you ever compared 350 sbc to and 400 block with 327 crank combo? I'm sure it's a trade off in power but still be neat to see.

Depends on what your goals are. The 347 is more expensive and typically a weaker block if running a factor block. Stock block safe at 500hp while stock block 351 is good to 750hp with upgraded rods and pistons junk yard 351 is probably $500 while a 347 is about 3500 for short block. Now if you are into foxbodies you will need a different Intake, 351 specific headers and oil pan with drop motor mounts recommended. Now if your car is already stock it really doesn't matter because you will need to upgrade these supporting mods anyway. Now if you already have headers, upgrade Intake, oil pan and motor mounts I suggest just upgrading to a dart block if you are already paying for a forged rotating assembly and machine work. Plus you can leave your current engine in the car while building out your new setup and continue to enjoy your car. I believe stock block 347 cost about $3500 and capable of a safe 500hp while 363 dart block with similar rotating assembly is good to 1200hp. $2000 to more than double your hp capacity is a no Brainer to me. Plus 500hp stock block is one bad tune up away from being a cracked block paper weight.

Hi I liked your comparison one thing overlooked is the parasitic loss of the combined weight of the piston assembly,conrod and crankshaft weight. Lighten the weight of the 351 assembly the same as the 347 and it would be interesting to see if the figures would be the same. Also piston speed is completely different with the 351 having more dwell at T.D.C. There is more than meets the eye. Cheers

What about the Cleveland 400 beefed-up for compression, reliability and RPMs ?

In my experience LSA makes a big difference and the compression

Do you know if a dual plane intake like the RPM intake would be fine for boost?

With the LSA of the cams. It affectively lowers the compression ratio on both engines.

Love me some Windsor.

I would think the 351 would be a better choice for longevity, due to thrust angles ?

In comparison what are the rod ratio differences between the two?? ,🤔🤓🤷🍻🏁👀

Is there any weight difference in the rotating assembly between the 351 vs 347?

Can you plz do a test on the new holley sniper intake against a edelbrock rpm intake

Good informative video. I'm doing an engine swap into a 1955 T-bird which doesn't have a lot of vertical space to work with, so I'm dealing with - as you mentioned - the fitment consideration. The baby birds are much shallower vertically through the body than the regular full size fords of the day. And it isn't obvious when looking at one of the old T-birds, but that hood scoop is necessary. The air cleaner on the Y-block fits right up inside the scoop with only about an inch of vertical clearance. And I want to be sure I have room for a nice tall, high flow air cleaner on my swapped engine. So after a lot of consideration I'm going with the 347 stroker and not the 351 based engine. Also, the 302 based engine is considerably lighter than the 351 (50 lbs or so), which is important to me as I want to shave as much weight off the front end of the car as possible. Thanks for the good thoughts in the vid.

I love’m both my 97 351 zf5 and my 90GT with that nasty little 347 c4, which ever one you choose is better than 800+ a month payments and full coverage insurance

I love your videos Man👍 I have a 1995 Cobra, but obviously it's 5.0. That's all I have to work with. Would you please suggest heads, Cam and intake for it? Also, should I just leave my Cobra intake? I've heard many people just leave that. Well I read many people done it. But my gt40 heads, boat anchors for the power I'm seeking. Agreed? Sellable sure, looking for power, no way!

Reduced pumping losses improve torque?

What would’ve been cool is if he gets a junkyard motor and puts the stock cam and heads on a 347 stroker then we could see what the 351 made stock and 347 stroker With stock stuff

Nice video Richard! Should I 331 or 347 stock block with boost?

Would you do a comparison of a 351 Clevlor vs a 427 stroker vs a Coyote?

The big difference between the 351W and 347 stroker. 351W has a taller deck height. This allows a longer connecting rod which improves the rod to stroke ratio increasing torque throughout the rev range. The 347 has a lighter crankshaft due to the smaller main journals which reduces rotating mass. This, in combination with the shorter deck height and shorter connecting rods, creates less rotating mass which allows a quicker spin-up translating to more HP. The 351W is a better base to start with if high HP is the goal. Given the right cam, head, connecting rod, compression combination they can go over 800HP.

Richard, I’m building a 302 low budget build with parts laying around the machine shop. What realistic hp can I expect with flat tops and e7te heads? Otherwise I have a set of 2v Clevland heads and I was considering building a clevor, however then I need to buy new pistons and an expensive intake.