4 things in MEDIEVAL GAMING that DON'T WORK 

Please answer my question. I wrote my question in comments box

You REALLY need to stop sponsoring RAID: Shady Ledgers Matt; as good as your content is, your sponsoring a "game" that's essentially daylight robbery REALLY DAMAGES your reputation with a lot of people, myself included.

I want to add something. I am sure that certain individuals developed tricks to carry various items on themself. Historically we see stuff that were statistically most common and widespread. But if I was adventurer in those times I am sure I would use my brain just as we do today. As a kid I used to put my bow in a way that wooden part was on my backs and rope on my chest. It is not great solution but it worked. People innovate and one thing is big army which knows when to prepare for battle and other thing is lone adventurer who needs to be ready at every moment. History does not mention such insignificant individuals and their ways are lost to time.

I am trying to leave with me that understatement for person who love historical accuracy.

@@ezrafaulk1799 By now everyone knows about Raid: Garbage Legends. Let Matt and other creators have their $10,000. If mentally deficient individuals still spend money on RGL, let them help fund the preservation of history.

and my 300,000 gold pieces.

All video game characters carry around a bag of holding PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

Okay

Same place prison inmates hide drugs and other goodies they might want to sneak in. It's nature's pocket!

Generally speaking, gear should have a strength requirement to use, dexterity to aim. If you don't have 16 str, you can't use this bow. Have 6 strength, here's your string ukulele it's going to be heavy and tough to pluck. The real oddity is aiming with strength on melee weapons. I'm a strongman contestant, so I'm as likely to hit with this sledgehammer like an Olympic fencer with their foil?

I mean, you need both, but modern recurve bows that most people would be experienced with tend to have a really light draw that the average person can handle without much of a problem compared to medieval bows, so that influences it too.

@@Zraknul That probably came from D&D where armour class is all or nothing. So a strong powerful blow has a better chance of penetrating armour to do damage. But armour should be more like a damage reduction. So you can hit for basically zero damage if the power behind the blow is insufficient. And then you can add a penetration factor to weapons that counter armour's damage reduction. But things from a mechanics point of view the game become very slow and clunky.

Because Legolas is very nimble and uses a bow. Hence all elves have high dexterity and are good archers. And that's the entire reasoning for high Dex = good archery skills. Quite a lame rationale.

@@dimman77 GURPS does that and it's not clunky. And yes, you can get armour-piercing arrowheads and they distinguish between fabric/leather, chain, and hard armour heads.

I recall reading an account from some of the crusades that directly mentioned knight's squires being so heavily loaded by spare equipment (several spare shields being mentioned directly) they couldn't fight themselves as light or medium cavalry. I don't think they would necessarily get the heavies out of trouble, but they would be serving as mobile re-arm station and potentially chasing down fleeing troops.

Possibly true, but I think using heavy cavalry to disrupt or break enemy formation and lighter cav following to take advantage of it might be useful in itself.

It would be nice if the game had the servants. that had your five polearms, two plate armor and metric ton of loot.

The knightly lance fournie or squadron was often in later times a squad of up to a dozen men, the knight, a man at arms, multiple mounted archers and foot soldiers.

In art is common to put emphasis on the main characters, i wonder if what you were looking at was a representation of maybe the lords followed by their bodyguards or squiers? i guess they had the weapons of their lords as well, just in case. a spare lance, a spare shield? and of course they would make sure that the lord was not killed. not every lord was very good in battle, we should keep that in mind lol caesar octavian himself was a very poor general, amazing politician tho! i bet he was a total prick in person haha

You can get polearms? I always just used a two handed sword myself or occasionally shield and axe/mace

@@GhostEye31 you can get them, but you have to basically get them in the action. You can't get them in your inventory like most other weapons. They're kind of like "special bonus weapons", since they never appear in your inventory

@@cal2127 Obviously. But I believe shields weren't always uniform. Often they had individual colors. So finding your own equipment could be one of the benefits.

Identification while wearing a helmet, for most. Romans had unit designs, the painted shields have been found

Therefore the solution to all of this is to give your character non-combatant followers. If you want the player to be able to bring a wide selection of weapons, give them people to carry those weapons for them. D&D has a character background that does exactly this for you, the Knight background gives you three servants/squires/etc. that can carry and maintain your equipment for you.

@@cal2127 plenty of cultures carried bows in these sheaths on the side, qing army even had regulations regarding their placement, usage and mounting the sabre together with it. It's obviously not the most comfortable thing to have around when fighting in a melee, especially in the context HEMA people are most familiar with.

Yeah, largely Matt has replaced some "myths" with laughably bad ones. That you can't wear a bow or shield on your back, and that it's impossible to use a spear and bow... despite the fact the Byzantines did just that. "You can't stow a spear while riding a horse," it's called a spear-sling, they were in use up the freaking GREAT WAR.

Including not being able to store Polearms. You had to just drop them.

@@gaiusterminus truth, I think they meant to add the option, to add them to horses inventory, but never happened. Rumours of a second game are rife!

I loved this game until I played it. Then back then it crashed, I had only limited possibilities for saving the game (this effin' flask) and those two combined made me quit the game.

@ yeah i remember it being extremely demanding. I play on xbox and the crashing was some what minimal, but there was a major issue with lockpicking, so much so that they had to create an entirely new feature, purely for controllers. Madness.

Once i got past the jank KCD became one of most fun games i played in a long time.

Ironically there are no spears in Skyrim

@@NMahon ironically, the modded spear in skyrim is categorized as an *axe*

You'd think the shield would get in the way, was there a special way of hanging it while using the pike?

@@druthvlodovic I wanted to post a link with a possible solution but of course Google doesn't let me. An important feature of Philip's reforms was scaling down the shields for pikemen so they wouldn't be as huge as traditional aspis. Based on experiments I actually believe it's entirely possible that at least some of the men in formation would hold them while using the pike since it's not a weapon you have to be really mobile with. No pictures of that unfortunately

I would guess that a lot of equipment was worn on the soldiers back, between battles. While they might not switch between it during battle, it's easy to carry both armor and shield on your back between battles.

Good post. The great thing about this video is it attracts people who know what they're talking about, and actual historical examples. instead of assuming, "it's impossible to wear a shield on your back." How does one even come to that conclusion, unsupported by history, physics, nor logic?

Groan

Why does the Norwegian navy paint barcodes on all their ships? So they can Scandanavian.

What was Rudolf told to do when he tried to move an ordinary sledge? Pull the other one its got bells on.

@@darthkek1953 I don't get it.

Also, more elite troops who specialized in many weapons, would have servants or other subordinates riding with them, handing them the equipment they needed. Especially mounted nobles kept spare horses close to them.

In Quake you would have 10 weapons on you at all times, switchable at will. The same engine was used to make Call of Duty where you had one primary firearm (e.g. assault rifle) and a side arm (usually a pistol). Both games were fun but for different reasons.

Is that a trebuchet in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?

Not in AD&D.

@@darthkek1953 Cool. What's the game mechanism for that?

@@kwanarchive short and long term fatigue tables

@@darthkek1953 Interesting. How short is short term? You can get puffed out pretty quickly fighting at full power in three minutes.

@@kwanarchive different systems different rules, but typically a stamina-based amount of combat rounds before getting fatigue penalties, a requirement for daily rest else penalties, and a maximum daily terrain-&race based movement rate which can be exceeded with penalties, and encumbrance limits which if exceeded give penalties. So if you load yourself up with more gold than you can carry, don't sleep, run everywhere and fight hard all the time... you'll struggle. Video games can have a "stamina" bar that depletes.

it's fine, the spear was in the background the whole time, as you can see, the point was always there.

If he did, it'd become obvious you can fight fairly well that way. Didn't Shad make a video doing that, and showing you can fight reasonably well doing it? Another youtubers did, which was the inspiration for Shad's video, IIRC.

I'm torn when DMing my own games how much realism I want to impose on the players. Especially because it tends to hurt martial characters like fighters and rogues more than spellcasters, and martial characters already feel like they're at a disadvantage because of how much they rely on their gear compared to magic-users. It feels a bit unfair to penalize the martials just because we know how armour and weapons work(ed) in real life while magic is made-up bullshit with fewer restrictions. Sometimes I'll just handwave it for the sake of fun and drama (kind of like how fictional characters almost never have to worry about going to the bathroom unless it's played for comedy).

Full plate in four minutes? It took Ian LaSpina 9.5 minutes, with one assistant, to put on his late-14th-century set. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-k24y_ZmxRHg.html

playing kcd, and getting anxiety anytime henry carries a lit torch into a confined space for very long >_>;;

You should try playing Kingdom Come Deliverance. You can pick up polearms but you cant store them and they force you to fight on foot if you want to keep it.

I think Winlass Steelcrafts/Museum Replicas makes one. Edit: Seems they discontinued it... does a boar spear suffice? www.museumreplicas.com/european-boar-spear-head

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--o8jxX7vkOs.html

DD is still one of the most ridiculous systems out there tho X)

No one did that with spears, and it would still be in the way. Also, I would like to see someone tie pauldrons to chain mail without assistance.

@@sethdusith6093 That first part is irrelevant to my comment, and for the second part, go watch the aforementioned video.

@@khodexus4963 and your comment is about as relivant to this video. Shad doing something doesn't mean anything. Also I've seen it. His period armour is possible to put on alone, but other periods would be much more difficult

@@sethdusith6093 Apparently, you weren't paying very much attention, or just don't understand Matt Easton's content very well. Or, didn't read my comment very comprehensively for that matter.

Hey look guys, in shads new video, he hits his sword. Weird eh, who would have thought, not khodexus

I think I've heard about at least small metal bucklers being used like that. Sometimes, as much as a fashion accessory as for use in fighting.

Damage models in games tend to be laughably silly, where characters are such bullet-sponges you get bored before you can finish the first boss. Armour is made of paper, and the character with the highest level wins... even Assassin's Creed decided to go that route. Interestingly, having talked to some developed... many of them wet themselves at the word, "realism," deciding that they want to simulate foam weapons wielded by LARPERs rather than an actual sword or axe.

That sounds pretty cool. Sadly, it also sounds like it'd be clunky and time-consuming.

I agree with you but I think that's also just because polearms in KCD were a bit of an afterthought and they were probably implemented last minute or were given relatively little time in their development. You can obviously observe this when using the polearms because they lack polish. There aren't too many attacks or animations designed for them and they're also very much OP and poorly balanced in some ways. I have a video on my channel that showcases just how OP the Lucerne Hammer is (it's the bandits in skalitz one). You'll also notice that they can't be bought or sold even though they have a price associated with them. They can't e stored either. This all suggests that warhorse didn't spend much time developing them. It would have been amazing if we could store polearms on our horses or at least in our chests. I, for one, was super bummed out at the lack of opportunities to use polearms in KCD, given the potential there. I remember trying to bring one into battle on several occasions and it always despawned once the battle started :(

It's actually possible to sheath a 2 hander or sling polearms and bows. RU-vidr Shadiversity invented contraptions to do that. However, there seems to be no evidence of things like that invented in history.

I actually made a design for something like this, where the scabbard is in a frame that tips forward over your shoulder; I haven’t built it yet, but I do think it would work

@@eazy8579 Shad's backscabbard is slotted, a pretty interesting design, I recommend looking at his video, might give you more ideas.

@@jean-sebastienmatte2358 There is some art of large swords worn on the back. You can't exactly perform iaido with them like in fiction, but given a a few seconds you can adjust the belt scabbard and get it out, if a little clumsily. Or just unsling it before drawing.

Sources?

Yes, quite a few cavalry soldiers did this, as Matt does acknowledge. Some cavalry had pouches or loops by the stirrup to put the lance in as well. I wish Matt would do a video about lances of the late 19th century & early 20th century, especially the tubular steel lances.

@@F1ghteR41 Yeah, tons of higher-status cavalry across history fielded with a lance or other staff weapon as well as bow or two. & we have manuals & artwork showing how to shoot while retaining the lance/polearm. There were various methods.

@@willek1335 A Byzantine cavalryman carried his lance on his back, and after using the bow he must be able to put it back in its case and access the spear, and then switch back again, while riding. books.google.com/books/about/Maurice_s_Strategikon.html?id=ihDmbG-BhXsC Page 11 There is also an illustration of how its done by the Mongols here warfare.6te.net/Persia/14/Jami_al-Tawarikh-Abu_Ali_ibn_Simjuri-rebel-Mahmud_ibn_Sebuktegin-MsOr20-f114v.htm

@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Matt Easton acknowledged this? As far as I saw, he just stated you can't stow a spear, and said games were unrealistic for having a sort of spear-sling, without any room for the realities you mention. He also indicated shields cannot be worn on the back.

Essentially, the issue is the mechanic isn't worth the time. Players and GM forget about it, and the penalty is likely so small it wouldn't make a difference anyway--and if it did it would be seriously annoying. Worse, it's a problem that is easily solved. With the right computer simulation, and a game with good stealth mechanics and such, you could make it interesting. But partially computers can make it worse since it can take several button presses to do what could be arranged in a single line in a pen and paper game.

One 12th-century source says put the lance under the thigh when shooting the bow.

In the Deluge mod (17th century east Europe) whenever you de-equip your pike/lance it drops to the ground. Does indeed often mean losing track of it.

Lol. Warband (if you are talking about Mount&Blade) is a really nice game, which is a lot of fun. But it should be pretty clear, that Mount&Blade is very fantasy-like and not very historical accurate. Take for example it's different cultures, which are settled in completely different time eras..., e.g.: There are romans ("the Empire") fighting vikings ("Sturgians"). Just for clarification.

@@elduderino1635 that is bannerlord, not warband

@@elduderino1635 The Sturgians are Rus-Vikings and the Empire has a 10-11th century Byzantine aesthetic. Not bad if you ask me.

Kingdom Come Deliverance didn't let you store polearms and there's nonstop whining from people that this is unfair. "BuT jUsT pUt It On YoUr HoRsE tHoUgH!11!" comes up a lot too even though none of the horse tack in-game looks suitable for that.

I know Metatron did.

We have various 16th/17th descriptions of people wearing staff weapons on the back or belt, so we know it was done historically. Something like Shad's method might have been how.

Having played all 5 editions, it's interesting to see how the game took some steps to change with new historical information. There's still legacy crap in there like armours that probably didn't exist (e.g. studded leather, ring mail) but at least they're not claiming longswords weigh 10 lbs anymore!

Not hard to be loyal when you are getting paid to shill for some scammers.

@@demomanchaos I mean true, but not everyone shilling for Raid does it so consistently

@@MandalorSkyrd Maybe he is getting phat paid (as the kids say, or at least used to back in my day) and no one else is throwing as much his way. Considering how large that scam program is I doubt anyone could buy as many shills as they.

@@demomanchaos that's indeed a possibility

They were dropped on the ground one by one and couldn't be found again during the heat of filming.

I have the opposite problem: as a player, I'm always looked like I'm out of my mind by the DM and the other players when I put down my polearm to do stuff, dismount to use it or refuse to climb a rock wall because it's a magical ancestral polearm that my character really can't leave behind. For your players, I would go for the "Sure you can... oh, the longbow is ruined* / the great axe just toppled a brazier while you are sneaking in the King's room / by the time you'll retrieve the shield from your back the Black Knight would have cut you in very small pieces" route. Don't limit your player's -bad- innovative ideas: just show them why absolutely nobody else do it. * if they want to carry it by putting an arm under the string like sometimes you see in movies/series. But I could allow them to spend some coins and time and have an expert craftsman to make some sort of tailored bow-holster/harness to be carried on the back or a bow-sling like this modern one: bowtote.com/index.php/carrying-positions/ The bow would still have an annoying tendency to getting stuck at every moment (but particularly at the _most_ inappropriate ones) and putting it away and take it out would not be very fast.

I heard a rumour that monsters are coming back.

Except you can. Not quite as convenient as in video games, but you can wear a bow. Try it sometime.

@@vanivanov9571 It’s doable physically but horrible for the life of the bow & bowstring. It would also hurt if you didn’t wear a padded coat or armor or something on your chest.

@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight Horrible for it? Not really. Maybe if youdrew on the bow significantly by wearing it or did some specific acrobatics. Not sure what kind of bow requires you to wear a padded coat or armour, but warm clothes is usually enough.

@@vanivanov9571 You want to store a bow without putting any unnecessary tension on it. By having it stretched out to be put over your torso, it weakens and wears out faster. As for the pain part, I was thinking along the lines of a war bow, like around 100 lb draw weight. Something with a lot of tension force to propel an arrow very far and with lots of penetrative force. If you tried putting that bow on your torso without padding your chest, you’ll feel the string cutting into your body like dental floss cutting cheese. Whatever the case, there’s a reason why archers didn’t do this (commonly). Try Shadiversity’s nail hook idea instead.

@@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight You'd have to have a pretty big torso to stretch out your bow to a worrying degree. That, or a pretty small bow, in which case it can easily be holstered. And dental floss cutting cheese...? What kind of string is that, piano wire? If it cuts through you and clothing with ease, how do you draw it without cutting off your fingertips? You need a fairly heavy duty string for it to survive >=100#, at least historically since you mention warbows. Why would I try Shad's convoluted ideas with no real world experience? Seems you need some to... get a bow, and try it out yourself, as what you've been talking about is a heck of a fever dream.

The first Christian king of Norway lost a battle at sea and swam away while wearing a chain hauberk.

@@adambielen8996 Looks like chain is possible for short periods. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bwd2ZEav2vE.html Other types are less clear. Obviously it is dangerous to test it out. Japanese armour is supposed to be doable, if difficult. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TLcT5J7yg9k.html en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Plate_armour#Swim.3F

One thing we learned in US Marine swim qualification, is that your backpack can often act as a floatation device. As long as the majority of the items in your pack are less dense than water, or trap air, a typical ALICE pack will float until it becomes waterlogged. One section of swim qual is jumping into a pool in boots, rifle (dummy), helmet and backpack, and swimming around it. Of course, the more ammunition you carry, the less buoyant you will be…

Replaying Baldurs Gate. Letter I found takes same size slot as full plate. It's just one of those things.

*Resident Evil left the chat.*

@@tamlandipper29 Ah, the days of having 20 scrolls in your inventory.

Good find. It truly astounds me Matt just decided in absolute terms that you can't wear a shield on the back, when all logic and historical evidence indicates you can.