400 VS 600 VS 800 GRAIN ARROW (surprising) 

You should test a 300 and 350 or 375 grain arrow now and see. No body ever test the really light stuff. Great content

I want to see you compare the Garmin Xero A1i Pro vs the ultraview slider… How ultraview think they are worth half the price of the greatest and most versatile site ever made, blows my mind. Cheers ✌️

Q and a podcast answering viewer questions

It suprised me because the math side of your brain knows it's wrong. So... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iUwg7YVPVks.htmlsi=6zy4XnvT1TFNtflz Timing is perfect. Looks like you need to move the jugs out past 36 yrds. Your test is flawed. Otherwise I should tune down the projectile weight on my 6.5 creedmore to a flatter 120gr. Ballistics is ballistics doesn't change if it is a rifle or a bow. Just the speed and distance change.

Do the same tests but with the 400gr arrow at different draw weights, lengths, etc.

Arrow is dropping* (not stopping) 🫡

Turns out speed does matter and you should care more about that than the chasing weight of the arrow especially if you wanna be accurate down range

Rite on, hca did this over 20 yrs ago where the first to coin the phrase speed kills I belive . Nice test! Run it again at 50 w field tips and then with same broadheads close like u did here and again at 50 see what you get. Great work .

Exactly. Just like in rifle bullets.. SD retains momentum at range.. not at 2 yards.. let the arrows straighten out and retain energy down range. This stuff has been proven to many times to ignore with confirmation bias and bad science.

Ranch dairy did this!!! With a rocket scientist and radar.

Why did you not finish the equation? you used imperial weight and velocity so to calculate KE using imperial, the equation is KE=.5 x mass X velocuty^2/225218 this gives you ft-lbs the equation you gave is in metric so the answer would have been in juoles.

Units are all relative (as long as used consistently) and have no significance on the goal of my calculations to find out the difference in KE between arrows on a percentage basis. The KE equation has no units as an equation, the equation I used is not metric. The units used were grains for mass and feet per second for velocity - none of them being metric. Thanks. @@ericnewman971

Now do the math for the momentum values... That will be far more telling than KE

@@Bartimusblue27 Right! P=MV. Yeah, I would do them but I don't think Tim Connor or MFJJ care, they never engaged with this approach.

Sorry about your confirmation bias. 😢 🤣

Might be other way around. Both start out with the energy of the bow, but a faster lighter arrow will loose more energy over distance due to aerodynamic drag being a function of the square of the velocity (and given same geometry a heavier arrow would loose less energy per distance even at the same speed). I really want to see this penetration test at 50 yards, but it might be a minimal effect anyhow?

I know higher foc has alot of advantages, but, As long as the arrow is tuned and hits perfectly square, I have no idea how different FOC would would change penetration?

​@@lukeonderko8696that's because you don't understand how arrows penetrate. 😂

And at 30 or 40 yards instead of 2 yards.

This is a fallacy. I put this together not long ago as an example of my setup if I were to go to a 650 grain arrow. Some online characters minimize it - but this is actual data calibrated from Archers Advantage and my chrono. If I were to shoot a 650 grain arrow at 30 yds and it actually is 35 yds I would hit 1.5" low. Over an entire big cut broadhead low/high!! If whitetail vitals are say 10" (which less on smaller bodied & shrinks quartering shots) you have given up 15% precision to your intended shot location just in range error alone. Compound that with any other errors in your shot and it's easily much more than that. Let's say you're average broadhead group size in the backyard at 30 yds is 3". Pretty decent and probably above average based on what I see. Now what is your broadhead group size in hunting conditions? Let's be generous and say it opens up only .5" to a 3.5" group at 30yd from a tree stand. That means that off the top you actually have a window of 6.5" you've got to get that arrow in (10"-3.5" = 6.5"). So you're actual precision you've reduced your odds of hitting vitals in elevation a whopping 23% from the 294 fps setup. This doesn't even touch the subject of giving the animal more time to react. The question people need to be asking themselves is: Am I concerned about penetration so much that I'm willing to give up as much as 23% of vertical precision? Be honest with yourself.. How well can you range? If you're hunting fixed ranges at feeders this effect is minimal. If you're a whitetail hunter who is pre-ranging when you get in a tree because those deer pop out quick and don't give the opportunity, then this is applicable to you. If you're doing the same when that bull is coming in and you have to draw before he pops into that opening you pre-ranged then this matters to you. Make your decisions wisely & consider picking your broadhead based on your penetration needs but not your arrow weight.

@@chrismuhlbeier6948 blaaaa blaaaa blaaaaa... That's why I said the most important thing is practice. 🤯

Thanks friend!

my dude!

Bet not much

Wrong - no difference at all. High FOC is a crock of shit...

@@eclipsearchery9387 I'm beginning to think that as well...

Would love yo see this as well, but keep the arrow weight the same just change foc

I agree, no vanes next time.

Thanks G

Just like with rifle bullets, the gains are seen down range. Not at the muzzle.. or point blank. Light arrows shed energy and momentum, heavy arrows carry it further.. just like high SD bullets.. You can also compare low SD bullets to high SD bullets at short range, and the low SD bullets will perform very similarly... But get out to "rifle range" and the gains are seen in the high SD bullets. Because it carries momentum and sheds velocity much less. 👍 Shooting the arrows at 2 yards was the mistake. This stuff has been proven in giant carcasses in Africa too many times to deny. Heavy arrows penetrate animals deeper. It's simply fact.

And the bow efficiency is a different animal. Heavy arrows are able to absorb more energy transfer, regardless of bow efficiency.. this is why heavier arrows are quieter.. This stuff isn't magic. And exactly why views will never gain much more IBOfps.. they are about maxed out in mechanical efficiency.

This right here... the 400gr. arrow will win. Already seen thus test performed twice. 400 grain arrow won each time in ballistic gel.

Which arrow is going faster at 40 yards? The lighter arrow. Despite it perhaps losing energy more quickly, it is still traveling faster at the point of impact. That means the results would be the same. It would just be like shooting the same arrows out of a lighter poundage bow at the same distance.

​@@sd91499​​you are confused 🤣 The lighter arrows doesn't win. And of course its velocity will be higher... Heavier arrow will lose less of it's initial velocity. Retaining more momentum.

That's a GREAT way to say it! FORGIVENESS IS ACCURATE!!!

I’m they same draw, what bow gets you that speed?

@@Angel.Custodio mathews vertix

I am in the same camp. V3X @70# shooting 460 grain arrow 298 fps. Why people make it harder than it needs to be is beyond me. Tight pins flat flying arrows eliminate minor distance errors.

Mathews halon6 31.5" draw 70lbs shooting 460gr at 302fps out of a 8 year old bow god, I love having long draw length.

The guy is a snake oil salesman. He'd completely ignore any benefits of trajectory, talk crap about the findings, use his annoying laugh to distract people & use some limited science that agrees with his conclusion while ignoring any other science that contradicts him.

​@chrismuhlbeier6948 what a perfect summary

​@@chrismuhlbeier6948 yet he doesn't have to worry about hitting a deer scapula and the arrow getting two inches of penetration 🤔

He would say it’s an inaccurate test that was worked in reverse. They had their result before they ever started so their test was designed to prove their result rather than be an actual legitimate test. Anyone that’s ever hunted knows that penetration test was a joke. A quick RU-vid search will show various amounts of penetration on game animals and this test supposedly tells you everything penetrates the same.

@@chrismuhlbeier6948 please elaborate on exactly where he’s wrong? You may decide going with a heavier arrow isn’t for you but he’s factually and scientifically correct and there is no arguing that. The debate comes in about what trade offs one should take in their setup because every setup has some.

There’s a lot wrong with this statement. First, if the animal was quartering (a 45* angle towards you) a shot ending in the back jam without deflection would be an entry behind the front shoulder. That’s liver/gut only. If the animal was hard quartering or frontal, that’s one/two ribs on facing side only max and just a lot of tissue. Either way, a quartering to or hard quartering to/frontal on an elk at 80 yards is not a very ethical shot. Clearly it worked out but odds are much greater it wouldn’t than it actually working out. While I’m a heavy arrow/high FOC guy and I even shoot 90#’s, I’m not even arguing about the setup in your anecdotal example. I wouldn’t recommend that long of a shot with such a high risk with any setup unless the animal was previously wounded

@officerfoxtrot3633 lol... it went through the front shoulder blade... then continued its DIAGONAL trajectory into her back ham. She didn't go 40 yards. It's not an ethical shot .. only if your an internet troll that isn't good enough to make a shot like that. Clearly you can't. Just another day's work for us real hunters that tagged out.

Why? Don't ever do that again

He’s gonna do the same shot next year and be up for nights wondering why it didn’t kill the animal

@@theamericansavage I’m confused. Quartering to shot is a 45 degree angle facing you. If the exit is in the back ham, the entry cannot be in the front shoulder at that angle. It would be further back. If the entry was in fact in the front shoulder, and the exit was in the back ham, the angle would be greater than 45 degrees and nearly a fully frontal shot. That would mean the “quartering to” description was not accurate. If the description was accurate, your entry/exit cannot be accurate. It’s a simple angle calculation. A diagonal at 45 degrees ending in the back ham would have to be further back on the animal than the front shoulder. To hit the front shoulder and back ham the angle would be greater than 45 degrees. In regards to your comment about my ability I have this to say. Lol. I have not shot an animal past 56 yards. Because I believe it’s not ethical past 60. I can and have shoot foam and paper consistently out to 120. While I may not be a tourney archer, I’m definitely more invested money and time wise than the average archer, and my skills represent that. So when you say you’re a “real hunter who tagged out” it really tells me what I need to know. Cause only an internet troll who couldn’t make an 80 yard frontal on an elk with a light arrow getting extreme penetration would believe that an arrow commonly seen on hundreds of hunting channels failing to penetrate more than 15 inches into a whitetail is either a miracle or not true. Next time you’re scratching your head wondering why your cheap 100 grain replaceable head and 400 grain light gpi arrow didn’t get the pass thru you expected, maybe considering not being so close minded and take another’s perspective into account. 👍🏻

It's not significant - get your arrows anywhere from 12-17% and stop thinking about it. The biggest benefit from FOC is if you can use it to weaken a stiffer spine arrow. Allowing you to shoot a stiffer arrow than a super low FOC arrow. Which would help with penetration some. Once you past that one spine stiffness up by using say 150-175 total up front - you're not gaining much of anything.

Just need a radar. This test is out there online - it's not that significant.

That’s irrelevant. The drop on an 800 grain arrow is so significant that no sane person should ever think that shooting an 800 grain arrow is a good idea

Thanks dude

Yeah flatter trajectory is forgiveness

It depends on what you’re hunting

I went middle ground just over 500gr but high foc. The KE carries further with a heavier arrow and with higher FOC it is more stable and blows through bone better. I am totally done with mechanical heads after several that turned into field tips hitting ribs or the scapula.

Like the misconception that shooting at 10 jugs of water at 5 yards compares to shooting a deer at 20, 30, 40 yards..

That’s how I felt

I think they used heavy water for this test 😂

Yeah I get a lot of these reports! Nice job dude

@@TimConnor13yes at distance with a bricklayer wall of water jugs to account for the arc. Not enough speed loss right out of the bow maybe to make a difference. Fun shooting.

What broadhead Vance? I shoot 420 grain and live in North Carolina and hunt Ohio! I’m a mechanical guy and trying to figure out broadhead for elk hunt in sept.

What’s a better controlled test?

Comparable penetration over a constant medium no matter what it is wouldn’t matter. The test was comparable.

​@@TimConnor13mfjj has long legs, you could easily fit half a dozen in one leg 🤣🤣🤪🤪

the only real test that matters is what do these arrows do when used on hide, meat, and bone. Therefore, the best way to accurately test the arrows is to get some scapula, deer/elk hides, and some meat(boneless cuts of cheap meat). Then test these arrows with a fixed blade broadhead at a distance somewhere around 20-30yds since the drop is so bad on the 800gr arrow. In order to put an arrow through the vitals of an animal means that you have to get through the hide, meat, and most likely bone(i.e. ribs and/or a scapula). Killing animals is the only reason this topic matters, so why not use animal parts as a true test medium.

Seems to be a sweet spot

It’s impractical at distance because the heavy arrow would be dropping so aggressively it would arc into the table

@@TimConnor13 You might be able to put the table on a slant by putting the front legs up on blocks.