5 Good Player Habits That Can Go Bad - RPG Philosophy 

In the thirty years I've been DMing, I had come to think I'd seen every possible kind of bad habit a player can fall into. Then, I met this one player. She wanted me to give her a walkthrough of my campaign. As in an actual walkthrough, complete with all the secret areas, tips, tricks, and hints. So she could win it. With the best possible whatever. Score, or points, or reputation, or something. I get that this is a thing with video games, but this obviously isn't a video game, so... yeah. I really didn't know how to react to that. I tried to explain that I couldn't, because while I had some broad ideas, and so forth, I hadn't written the entire campaign, as I wanted to allow for the players to explore, and shape the narrative through their actions. I had some large world events that would happen, again depending on player actions that might change them, but I planned each adventure as we moved through the game. She tried to google my campaign, then got mad when she couldn't find anything on it. I still don't really know how to react to that. She finally quit when I wouldn't reward her for attempting to burn down an orphanage in the middle of the night, killing everyone inside. She thought the orphans would give her enough XP to level ahead of the rest of the party, hence, she was winning. Sometimes, even if you try to talk to players about these kinds of things, they just won't listen.

I'll back a Kickstarter for a full-length movie starring Seth... and *only* Seth

"We should not take the full 31 points of damage from the fireball as one-sixth of my body is under water. The damage should be reduced by one-sixth." "Fine, you take five sixth of the 31 fireball damage as fire damage, and the last one-sixth as scalding damage as the fireball boils the water around you."

"The black knight is a well rounded character" I see what you did there.

I bought some sand timers. When the players are paralyzed, I just pull one out and start timing it. I don’t know what happens when the timer runs out. It has never happened.

I've been a flavor of the week player in the past. I realized i could just GM and play all the characters i need to play as NPCs. I get to do all the voices, subtle flaws and nuances of a character without necessarily having to commit to them long-term. I really love coming up with characters. Now I have my NPCs that I create when I have character ideas, and I have the few I've made to play and stick with. Solved my Flavor of the Week syndrome.

You put ONE mimic or ONE trap in a hallway in a game, and now everyone is crawling through each dungeon.

Brain in a jar with high points in seduction. Yes.

That "options" montage was priceless! :)

In the 90s my players once noticed a copy of "Grimtooth's Traps" on my bookshelf. I had purchased it to read for my own amusement and never intended to use much that was in it, but the mere existence of the book had me dealing with a paranoid party for a good number of weeks afterwards :P

That paranoid player makes me think about why mage hand is my favourite dnd cantrip.

Many thanks for having actual closed captions. Your channel has moved ahead of much other RPG viewing for me for that alone!

Good flaw: the sniper who is addicted to drugs that slow their perception of time. Bad flaws: The brain who used to be good at seduction and brawling.

I love the negotiator skit with the fireball. I figure that I'd have instantly agreed with the player and said something to the effect of, "That's right! I've already taken that into account. You only take 5/6th of the damage which is 31 points! The actual damage would have been 37 otherwise." ;)

I thought of an idea for a list like this with five good player habits and their toxic counterpart about a week ago the list of habits I had in the list are: The opportunist: plays the game, explores the world, initiates, plans. Talks to the NPCs instead of an NPC crying out for help, barters with the shopkeeper, ventures off the standard path so the DM has to add to their world and it all shows how much the player is involved in and interested in the world the DM has created. Vs Murderhobo: doesn't care about your world as a DM just wants to see what dumb thing they can get away with this time. Needlessly kill NPC, needless theft, needless rapacity and act as though since they are the heroes of the story they can't be punished by anyone or else the dark wizard will have everyone enslaved for a thousand years etc. The Librarian: Knowledge of rules, sources and guides. Readily helps other players or DM if clarity for a stat is needed. May even have a source readily available if needed. Vs. Rules lawyer: NOT someone who advocates or argues on behalf of the rules, instead argues for *an interpretation of said rule*. The DM is judge, a real judge can't just ignore the law, so a DM can't blatantly ignore a rule, BUT they are final say with in that specific game what the rules means. Does an NPC with sentinel get an opportunity attack against a PC with mobile? Or does the PC get away? That is a nuance within the laws of the rules that a DM decides on, not the players. Attentive: the player is there in body and mind. They don't distract. They don't look up dnd roleplayer videos on RU-vid during the session. They are their to play DnD. Vs. Metagamer: uses knowledge of things beyond what a character would know to gain advantage in game. Memorized monster manual to constantly remind the DM how much life it had left. Interrupts conversation between two PCs or two NPCs or a PC and an NPC to have heard everything the whole time because they were there all along just hidden in the shadows and I want attention - Blah! The Peacekeeper: makes sure everyone is having a good time and players no there is no ill intent, helps conflicts to resolve, encourages forgiveness. Just wants a nice fun friendly roleplay session. Vs. Social Paranoid: constantly worries that anything they do or say will upset the DM or the party. Is scared to make a decision even in session zero. Watched lists of bad roleplayer player videos on RU-vid and is convinced they are everyone of them or conversely is worried someone in their party or the DM could be one. The Actor: puts on a show, changes voice, describes what they do with brevity to foster the imagination among the group. In roleplaying they do just that, they play the role while in the party they play their role. Vs. The Novelist/FanFic Writer/Fetishist/Slasher Film Scriptwriter etc. : Needlessly takes up time in play to describe things to minute detail. Takes 5 minutes to do a single action. Overplays an actions details going overly gritty and graphic, if it's blood or semen they will describe where it goes. Controls the narrative the DM has been trying to have through this detail. May even outright still the game to do who on Earth knows what. Refuses to see when the other players have had enough because to them this is their story and they are the main character. A DM with a favored NPC can do just that too. Anyway that is my list and videos like this inspire me to think of it and other ways to be a roleplayer people will enjoy having around.

Whenever I got to meet paranoid players, it's because they often come from high risk low reward games. Situations when the GM just sets up traps to screw with the characters not giving them any chance but just leaving them to the mercy of the dice. At one point I used to do stuff like that, and specially in Call of Cthulhu, it only breeds paranoia and fear. Which in a certain way is the intended effect, but if not well done and prepared it can spread like weed and screw all your games. You pretty much talked about it in the video reviewing the Corbitt House module, in the greenhouse on the backyard there's this plant that can instantly kill your players, which is an absolute suckerpunch and hate it. I think that the paranod players can be fixed by modifying some behaviours and challenge design. Unless explicitly told that it's an uncharted place filled with traps, try to avoid backstabbing your players with high damage - deadly traps or consequences for the mundane. It's probable that the door to an ancient chamber may have some sort of curse, give indications for your players to take notice of it and give them the chance to overcome it. It should be for the players to decide if they want to take the risk of going through a trapped place rather than telling them it's trapped when it's too late for them to take any stance with it, risking losing their characters. On the other hand, if the trap is something more of a warning with moderate damage, or something that captures them and modifies the situation of an aspect, forcing them to plan around it, efectively moving the story forward, go for it.

Negotiators... Ugghh. I've had to deal with a fair share of those. It's a good name for them, and it's a very slippery slope to someone becoming one. Great video, Seth. Thanks

"Advice on how to play a blind character" pops up on reddit almost every day lol

the fireball argument is so funny i bet its a discussion Seth actually had at some point

"An *mimes air quotes* empty room, how fiendish !!! I disbelieve the illusion and await the oncoming storm of death and destruction." "Guys, it's empty ..." "You're trying to lull us into a sense of false security, reverse psychology, don't be fooled, the more he says there is nothing the easier he can strike at us by surprise ... We're not moving, using all our detection spells and alarms, ready to strike when the hidden peril unveils itself." "OK, you sit tight for a week, meanwhile Baron von Strachen got his hands on the King's Sword and took over as absolute ruler." "No, it's a clever distraction from the real threat !" Mubles to himself "Lucky I didn't mention a chair ..."

In most campaigns the other players would handle the overly flawed character. I could see my players gambling the brain in a jar away in a card game.

I can't count the number of times BURN IT ! has been a legitimately discussed option at my table.

I actually have a hilarious story about a minor (and perfectly acceptable) negotiation situation lol. Our monk was hidden by an illusory barrel in an orc stronghold, and an orc was about to pick up the barrel, so he decided to strike and surprise the orc before it discovered the illusion. He did enough damage with flurry of blows to kill the orc outright, and the DM started to describe the vicious assault... Until one of the other players pointed out, "He's a halfling - there's a height difference." The DM changed his description and noted that the orc got punched in the balls so hard that it coughed them up and died.

Going to play DnD for the first time this sunday hope this will be helpfull

So very true! I had a game going and was trying to run an adventure where the party would explore a ruined tower. Instead of opening the front door they decided to chop their way inside through the outside solid stone wall. It took them a very long time to break through the wall and I decided in that time all the intelligent life that was in the tower left with all their valuable possessions. They basically decided that the party was filled with absolute crazies and were not to be trifled with.

I'm kind of concerned by how many people are treating the fireball example as if it's an improv prompt to see who can figure out how to most creatively inflict extra damage on the player as some sort of "gotcha!" The very thing Seth warned about with the negotiator is that it can create a "player vs DM" mindset, and trying to screw the player in these instances doesn't defuse that, it reinforces it.

I have an issue with "Flavour Of The Week", there is a type of player who wants to regularly change their character, not because they're bored or don't want to be invested, but because they're so excited about the game that they want to try every single option and combination there is.

YOU FOOLS! You forgot to cover the corridor in spikes in case whoever is in the room charges forward when you open the door. Meanwhile at the tower. As you wait outside the tower arguing on if you should knock on the door. It opens a crack, and someone calls here boy. A small dog runs up to the tower and goes inside

For me the biggest grief I have both GMing and playing is when people are one step beyond paranoid and being over cautious. I appreciate that character death is always a disappointment but Jesus, but like an old serjeant I had once said: "every battle plan never survives first contact, in most cases a best laid plan loses out to combat flexibility, so when push comes to shove GO BALLS TO THE WALL!"

Remember when flaws first became a big thing in RPGs? Lots of blind, agoraphobic, quadriplegic heroes in the late 90s 😂

Upon introducing a new campaign, which clearly stated it would begin in the wilderness and remain there for a while, a player created a rogue full of stats and skills that would make him a fantastic city thief. Three sessions in he quit out of boredom.

Seth, I adore your videos! The RPG Philosophy videos in particular. I love the character skits that you do - the indecisiveness one was particularly funny - crossing out 'Use Orphans' really got me, haha. I would love to be a player in a game you DMed. It would be fascinating to see your game running style in action!

Your comedic bits are great! There are a lot of people on RU-vid that try to be funny and fail almost every opportunity with some just being flat out irritating but you make me laugh. And thanks for the GM/Player advice / introspective videos. Out of everything, I find these to be the most useful. Keep up the good work!

I half expected the paranoia sketch to end with "We open the door" "The room on the other end of the door is empty." "I check for traps."

USE THE ORPHANS! Classic, I wish I had thought of that! Adam

How to kick a problem player out (safely) might be a worthy topic

I want to know what calling Jeff would have done.

My argument about only taking 5/6 fire damage because he was in water: IT IS BLOODY MAGIC!

Love your videos, you're always inspiring us to do better as players and GM's. Thank you so much for all your effort.

I have a bad case of putting way too many flaws on a character. I only do emotional flaws, though. Physical flaws seem like they'd get really obnoxious beyond 1 or 2.

I absolutely love the extreme cases you present to support the video. This was a ton of fun to watch and listen to. A++++ Well done!

Thanks for the RPG Philosophy videos Seth. I originally watch these videos to see if I could recognize them in other people, but I end up seeing myself in some of the personalities and it has helped me become a better player in the way of recognizing my own flaws. Again, thanks for the videos Seth.

Great video Seth. In relation to excessive negotiators, I play with a DM who has been playing D&D for years and often forgets 5e rules or confuses them with older editions, so he occasionally makes weird rulings, so I'll briefly ask if that's how the rule works. If he realises he's made a mistake then I'll either confirm the correct rule or look it up for him, and if he sticks to his guns I'll let it go and continue on with the session. Most of the time it doesn't have much of an impact even if we don't follow the rules exactly as written and it's not worth starting an argument over inconsequential ruling.

Love your intro felt like it took the right amount of time lots of channels aren't able to do that so please keep it up

I never thought I'd enjoy a montage as much as the choice selection one.

Another awesome video Seth.

Thanks for this hilarious video, Seth. Sometimes I can be indecisive or a negotiator and it's good to see how this is not always a good thing.

As a fairly new DM, I appreciate when my players let me know of a rule I’m forgetting that can change how the scenario pans out (especially in combat since that has the most to juggle and the highest stakes) but PLEASE don’t argue with me about every little thing, especially if it’s in a homebrew campaign and we’re basically breaking the rules as a collective group already

Something about how you narrate is super calming and easy to fall asleep to. Problem is I then wake up and have to restart the video or playlist.

What a lot of effort and planning goes into these excellent and informative videos. Bravo!

Dude the overthought traps scene was not only super funny but too true. Fantastic video

Something I’ve done before with a group that I believe might slow the game down is introduce secret voting. You give everyone several poker chips of two different types, one for yes and one for no. When one or more players refuse to move forward - say they want to discuss some rule interpretation - you pass round a bag and each player secretly drops in a chip. The DM gets two voting chips, possibly more for a bigger group - you really want an odd number of chips in total if possible. What I find is that the vote very often comes out as move forward because many players won’t be vocally confrontational. The only downside is that over time I gradually run out of chips because people take them home.

This was great! #1 is perfect. Having GM’ed for years, I’ve seen all of these types. And the only one I ever had to use the dreaded “Because I’m running the game, not you” was for #1.

The addicted to flaws one hit home immediately, first time I ever ran my friend who used to be the forever dm gave this off hard. For explanation I was doing an epic fantasy game of pathfinder with point buy, and he was asking to have the point value of like 10-15 less points than anyone else just because he felt it would be more interesting. He was also at one point in another game a magus with no points in use magic device which is what magus’ revolve around

Seth you're rad, keep making awesome videos!

Thank you so much for those videos!

Indecisiveness was on the Critical Role menu yesterday. 3 hours to dig a hole, blew my patience.

Love the vids Keep sharing your tips

Only started watching your channel very recently, love it! The skits are very well made and funny. How about a whole “campaign” with those guys as a video series? ;)

Great video, Seth!

Great video, Seth! Would like to add on the part of "becoming a crutch" for the indecisive, though. A couple good tactics mix together (in my experience) to avoid that. Part 1, don't always just give a "gentle push" for the action, and don't always make a "right answer" the obvious choice. Send them down rabbit holes, waste a bunch of their effort on useless goofing around, and occasionally GET THEM INJURED... As a GM, taking the action lead, is not what I'm supposed to be doing when I've clearly given the PC's agency with the story. Being forced to take that agency back, doesn't equal the Players getting where they wanted to go... simple as that. SO they grind to a halt for inaction, and maybe I animate the tower to eat someone... random choice, PC or NPC... (no typo's there either... I meant that) OR maybe instead of a group of tinkergnomes, who's inventions have been leading the locals to gossip about it being haunted... turn out to be a family (pack) of werewolves, completely without warning. The moon's rising, so figure it out or die. Part 2. ACTUALLY discuss why consequences for inaction are a less than savory mixed bag... Point out that Player ACTION gets rewards, including things like minimizing damage for "chutzpah" levels of creative thinking... advantage where rolls might be "plain" or a lack of disadvantage when Canon prescribes it, simply because "it's just crazy enough they'd never in hell expect that." BUT point out specifically, that I as GM actually WANT the Players to take up agency when it's handed out. I'm not there to be in control, so giving the control back to me is about as much fun as writing a novel (which is a dragging-ass kind of bore and frankly TOO damn much work). AND finally, there's no substitute for "the big freakin' hourglass"... If you can't find one in a gothic looking antique store, BUILD it... It should be over-sized, with a decorative "carved wood" look to it. Hand-built (your own) means you can even access the thing to change the amount of sand inside (changing time limits at will) as well as the COLOR of sand used (always a good accent to play with). At my table, even the most Paranoid Indecisive Paralysis is nearly INSTANTLY cured at the sight of my two-foot tall hourglass even being in view... Should it land on the table, there's ACTION or hell to play! ...and just for the record, I advocate being UNAFRAID to get "a little cavalier" with the rules, regarding rewarding "good" Player behavior. ;o)

I made a blind fighter once in Pathfinder and made sure to discuss it with my party before game started so that it wasnt going to make it too difficult for them. Personally, I love having a hard time in tabletop games. After 4 sessions the group asked me to change characters because a blind fighter really wasnt pulling his weight so I said I would look at changing them between sessions. The DM ended up helping me come up with a way to compromise so I respected their opinions and made a couple adjustments with the level ups and swapped out all the feats I had picked up and grabbed the blind sense feats to allow me to be blind but able to fight effectively. After the campaign ended I was voted the most valuable member because I was willing to adjust my character to help the party be better as a whole.

Players that are overly commited to their characters. They seem to dive so deep into it that it becomes a problem, talking about it endelessly even out of game context.

Good list. Some of the problems that have recently cropped up in my game include players telling other players, not their characters, what to do (such as during combat) and players reminding other players of things they might have forgotten, all when their characters aren't around. I've also recently had a player metagame in an attempt to notice another character's addiction so he can help the other character with it, through the addicted character has barely been around him and made no mention of it. I probably need to have a talk with my players as the metagaming has been in the increase.

This is a good video. I find that I am both a negotiator and one of these people who changes characters more often than I change my underwear if left to my own devices. The negotiating I tone way the hell down and I have no illusions that I'm somehow defending the other players from the DM. I just sometimes see things is a little bit unfair, so I bring it up when I do. But my Approach is always to consider whatever the game master is say + 2 comply with it if I feel it in extended argument is coming up. Because you're right having a very long argument about some point of my new shed just sucks the fun out of the game for everybody. As for new characters, the way I've fix that is to sit down and talk with the DM outside of game and figure out what I find boring about the character I'm playing and what I can do with it this interesting and potentially where the story could go.

What I probably hate the most as a DM are players who not only negotiate and argue but also dictate how you should run the encounter. Everybody says D&D is a game where everyone should be having fun, but some forget to include the DM.

I JUST checked your channel out again today after being gone for a while. This is almost creepy :D Always love seeing your rpg philosophy videos!

Great video. I've been guilty of all of them before. You should do a video about the best and worst habits GMs and players share.

Yay! I love these videos!

The brain in a jar just has such high points in charm that he convinces enemies he hit them with the smooth sound of his voice.

I find that the best way to deal with an indecisive player is to invite an impatient player to the party, who gets bored of the indecision and makes the decision for them

just found your channel, great stuff!

I love the scenes this time. They are so fun.

Another good breakdown video. I have so been guilty of Flavor of the Week disorder and still am. Luckily, these days I play video games so I'm not disrupting a group. The Negotiator type annoys me to no end. When the argument is more important than anything else, I just want to suggest a Debate club or a Litigating Attorney education.

I'm a simple man, I see new video from Seth I upvote 👍

Your parodies are on point and hilarious

Well done The negotiator in my group is also the rules lawyer and the strategist. I'm looking at you, Kevo :P

"Call Jeff" Love it

13:10 they can (emphasis) mention it. Mention it. Then drop it. Remember in critical role when Travis asked Matt a question about the blinded enemy throwing a spear at him in the dark in between two other enemy npcs? Travis asked a question, Matt answered, and Travis just went "ok. Fair enough." He mentioned it, and then he accepted Matt's answer.

Those attempts by the 'negotiator' seemed quite reasonable to me... this may be identifying a problem.

You just got a subscriber! You seem like an awesome guy to have at the table!

nothing drives me crazier than an indesisive player. as a PC id just say screw it knock on the door after the first 10 minutes of the party debating mundane nonsense but as a GM it is incredibly fruatrating.

I would like to add one extra player sin to this and that is a hoarder because it starts of well enough with wanting some good gear but this player soon starts taking and having everything even if the item doesn't suit their class or is even ideal and tailored for another player. I love your videos Seth and I love Todd

Finally a video about bad habits in which I don't recognize myself ...

The indecisive and paranoid players are a near perfect summary of my current campaign. Never really thought that throwing them hints would become a crutch though, so that's worth considering

05:30 Love the paranoia thumbnail 🤣🤣 A favourite meme of mine.

Hahhaa the overly paranoid bit was hilarious, and the options bit

Mr. Skorkowsky first off I’d like to say thank your for all the amazing videos you have created. Your videos have really ignited my spark as a GM. Now what I wanted to ask is do you have any tips for writing your own campaign. After running a few games of D&D and Call of Cthulhu I am really interested in writing my own campaign. What tips do you have? Or do you think you will create a video giving tips and your personal insight on this topic? Anyways thank you again for all the content and I look forward to your next video

too paranoid, funny in hind sight as another DM said its just a chair

This is why I LOVE honing my skills at game conventions. We get the WORST types and I get to practice dealing with them. When I share my experiences with my home group they improve as well--even if simply through social pressure :)

One of your better vids, Seth!

I actually had an incident with someone playing paranoid once. Almost the exact situation you described in fact, only diffrence was instead of a door it was the 100 foot hall before the door that the thief wanted to check Every Square Inch of! Finally, I got tired of it both in and out of character, so I started incessantly asking "why are you taking so long?", until the thief got frustrated and said, "fine you find the traps!" I replied "ok, here, hold my shield". As soon as I passed the shield to him, I picked his halfling ass up, held him in front of me, and charged down the hall, through the rotting door at the other end, and ended up accadently pinning a supprised ork to the wall with the spike on the shield the thief was holding (nat 20 on the shield bash roll, plus rule of cool).

I once mastered a small 2-player Shadowrun table. It has some really nice and memorable moments in it I gladly think back to. Allthough that paranoia-problem was rampant. So much that in a (admittedly not a beginner-job) job extracting some scientist from a facility in cuba it took two or three evenings just to figure out _how to travel to Cuba_. And don't get me wrong - my players were excited enough to even phone me between games about their plans. However as live got on and things like studies came in the way the group dissolved - and we never made it to Cuba...

I would add to your list with "players stepping outside of the role play". Years ago my gaming group had just watched several of the monty python films. Every time an NPC appeared on a horse I had to put up with "he's not riding a horse, he's just banging two coconuts together", imposing castles were followed by "it's only a model", and random shout outs of "Nee" were regular occurances.

Some great points to this. Traps are an interesting one, as the need to deal with them can lead to indecisiveness, metagaming and negotiation. Ideally, I think once the GM says 'you think there aren't any traps', the player should take that as read and act accordingly. Of course, the player may know they failed their search for traps roll, but that's part of the fun!

I don't know if I have a flavour of the week syndrome per say, but I come up with character concepts I like faster than I get to use them. Becoming DM who can introduce fleshed out yet temporary characters has eased that itch somewhat. I also channeled this in form of a habit that I always have at least one reserve character ready in all the games I'm in as a player in case my current one leaves or kicks the bucket. Also I've found that just filling up character sheets with these spontaneous ideas gives a certain amount of satisfaction. If the excitement over any of them lives past a few hours or a day, they will be in store to use later on.

To encourage timely decision making I have an hourglass that I set on the table when the players are taking too long. It runs for 10 minutes but once the players see it they realise that times almost up and they always wrap up before the sands run out. I think I got the idea from Matt Colville

The preparations the group made to open the door are hillarious. Never loughed so much during any rpg advice video 😂😂😂. Also, I remember being paranoied when we played dnd b/x back in the days, and the dm was very mean plus you were dead with zero hp. Old memories...😊

What about Players/GM accusing others falsely to be offenders whilst it is them doing the Mistakes? Very common, very annoying.

Reminds me of the game session that was wasted when a PC insisted an orc that got a 1 on the crit confirmation might drop their weapon. That's why I have a no fumble rule.