5. Jonathan Edwards and Puritan Post-Millennialism 

Not so simple The most effective missionaries have been the doom and gloomers (Dispensationalists, SDA, JW's--and of course Mormons, although I do not know whether they should be considered doom and gloomers like the others, since they are quite fuzzy on eschatology) while the optimistic postmils have mostly degenerated into generic humanitarians. By far the fastest growing strain during the 20th century (and 21st) has been various versions of dispensational pentecostalism (once denounced by RA Torrey as the "last vomit of Satan"). Of course, the recent rapid spread of Christianity outside the Western world also evokes such questions as "does doctrine matter?" and "which groups exactly are and are not part of the Church?" The trend in Western Christendom has been increasingly toward embracing a "least common denominator" conception of Christianity, and the extent to which one accepts this LCD Christianity as legitimate affects whether one regards the recent "evangelization" of the non-Western world as "progress" or not. Prior to the industrial revolution and "Enlightenment," the consensus Christian view would best be described as amillennial, except for a few premillennialists (chiliasts) before that view was anathematized by an Ecumenical council.

​​@@michaels4255the JWs are not successful missionaries. People absolutely loathe when they come knocking. Its actually the least effective way to reach people that I can personally imagine.

Thank you very much!

@@GoreBruce May the Lord bless you pastor for your insight and wisdom.

yes, do remember Ninevah- read Nahum!

Good job 'framing' the book of Revelation before reading it. I'm sure it dispelled a lot of misnomers and misconceptions about such an optimistic and glorious book. #theGospelWins

Nineveh's end was merely postponed about 100 years. You do know the end of Assyria? That was prophesied too. 😁

It good to read that someone else realizes that the pre-Rapture doom and gloom eschatology is non-sense and self destructive.

Now u have a glorious hope and a optimistic view of our future, Christ prevails and redeems the earth and many who are redeemed. What a marvelous truth to embrace or I should say that embraces us.

Just today my eyes were open. And I cannot even explain the freedom, not sure why, but I get to be an over comer.

@@freetobememe4358 Praise be to God. It changes how we live!

Praise the Lord, Brother 🤠

...and God's richest blessing to you as well, my dear friends.

Agreed

Amen, I wish so many others would learn church history, & even more so, holy scripture from Mr Gore

Thank you!

+tonyteb Thanks!

Thank you!

Amen to that!

You bet it does! I refuse to listen to certain people that I always Listened to because severe lack of innerstanding this.

Thank you!

Thanks Dan, and blessings in your ministry!

I have found the Calvary Chapel as a rare breed of optimistic Dispensationalists. They are very much involved in "occupying" and impacting culture.

Yes, unfortunately American Christianity was profoundly, and negatively, influenced by dispensational 'end of the world' eschatology early the the 20th century. Only in recent years has the fog begun to lift.

@GoreBruce Dear beloved brother in Christ Bruce: You are so close, but for some reason you do not want to be where history is made and not only looked at. Did not Jonathan Edwards say that after 6000 years the anti-Christian system would fall, which was about the year 2000. Did not the World Trade Center come down before the eyes of the world. Is not Tyre the world trade center of the Old Testament and does not the prophecy about Tyre contain images of the fall of Babylon in Revelation 18? World Trade is not the only aspect of Babylon but one major part of it. So in 2001 the fall started symbolically. And now you as a historian know very well that after the fall of the last world empire Rome there has not been any other world empire but something other unique was formed. A gathering of all nations under the umbrella of the United Nations. Does the United Nation not resemble a crowd rather than a well-organized and functioning political system? Does not Armageddon mean “the city of the place of the crowds”. Has there ever been an assembly of all nations in history before? Does not God say he does nothing without telling his prophets first? Is not Revelation 16 and Zephaniah 3 the mentioning of a gathering of all nations? Is not the 5th bowl the last event in Revelation that Jonathan Edwards relates to historic events. Does this not leave the 6th bowl as the event that must have taken place in between Jonathan Edwards and our time? Have there been 3 powerful spirits or houses of thoughts that changed the political landscape all over the world after Jonathan Edwards death? Have not the ideas of a constitutional democracy, Communism and Darwinism gathered the once Christians nations in the camp of those governments who do not submit to Jesus Christ and his law? My last question to you about the current situation is this: Are not the major nations standing before the abyss because they have ruined themselves morally and financially with the USA for instance amassing $32,000,000,000,000 national debt. Has not the notion of human rights and the rule of human law led to lawlessness in all areas in the USA because an unsanctified heart was given the freedom to pursue its folly and lust? You said about Jonathan Edward’s prediction about African divines: “Jonathan Edwards amazing prophecy is even now being fulfilled before our eyes”. Do you not see that all of Jonathan Edwards prophecy is being fulfilled before our eyes. The Harlot Babylon is coming down before our eyes and soon this message will be preached all over the world. I wonder what hinders you to see the vision of Jonathan Edwards including his timeline. Is it foolish prideful patriotism that keeps you from accepting that the founding of the USA was driven by the evil spirits of the 6th bowl? John Winthrop has never related the shining city to the Union of believers and unbelievers as Ronald Reagan did. You did well in my eyes when you pointed out that the positive outlook of Johnathan Edwards and William Carey was taken over by godless people. Do you not see that the founding of the USA was also a cheap imitation of the promises of the Gospel: Freedom, life and happiness. The difference is that Jesus Christ provided for a sacrifice for sin and the sinner must repent and be sanctified, and true happiness will be given in paradise because on earth we have to go through many tribulations. The Declaration of Independence is given the people a cheap version of these promises. They promise freedom, life, and happiness, but as history has proven, they have progressed in being slaves to sin and debt. You are so close, but for some reason you do not want to enter the fulfillment of all of the prophecy of Jonathan Edwards. You have studied history so hard but after the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ you do not see the second biggest event in human history being fulfilled before your eyes.

I appreciate your consistent encouragement, my friend. You can find source material on the point you raise at this link, and the sources cited therein. www.alliancenet.org/placefortruth/column/theology-on-the-go/jonathan-edwards-the-westminster-standards-and-presbyterian-

Matthew Henry's Commentary is excellent. I refer to it frequently. The best way to read Calvin is slowly! I read a little of Calvin's Institutes every day, and when I finish, I go back and start over. Thanks for your interest!

@@GoreBruce I've added a half chapter to a full chapter of Calvin a day depending on the length of it. Yes, SLOWLY! My thanks sir, and God Bless!

Ah, and what shall Our Great GOD Do in this to come?) Solí DÉÕ Gloría

Christianity spread far more during the 20th century than the 19th. It also spread a lot durng the 16th and 17th centuries (if the spread of the RCC counts--Edwards would not have thought so!). Christian numerical growth into new populations appears to have been especially sluggish during the 19th century.

The term 'postmillennialism' was not really current at the time of the Westminster, as it came to be used to distinguish from rising premillennialism of a later era. The Westminster scholars, however, were quite clear in their affirmations that the work of Christ would continue and expand in history. You can see this, for example, in the Larger Catechism and its treatment of the second petition of the Lord's Prayer.

@@GoreBruce thank You Dr Gore I do see that in the WLC .

@@GoreBruce Old post now. I like the WCF. I’m probably amil though not really concerned about much more than that preaching the gospel should never stop and that Christ will come again. Having said that, what you mentioned about the LC, I don’t think that any view, even premil could disagree. Christ’s work will always continue as history goes forward.

Thanks for your question! I have been PCUSA for 35 years, fellow-shipping in a wonderful church that has faithfully weathered the storms that keep blowing in from the denomination. I also have the deepest appreciation for the PCA and its ministry.

+Bruce Gore Okay thanks for the quick response, and thank you for your work. It has been very helpful so far.

Reformed Baptists generally followed a Calvinistic a-millennial (or post-millennial) perspective prior to the 19th century. William Carey, a Reformed Baptist, adopted a much more robust post-millennial view under the influence of Edwards and the Puritans generally. In the 19th century, Reformed Baptist tended toward a historic premillennial view (e.g., Charles Spurgeon).

Chiliaism

Amen to that. I wish Africa would send us a bunch of missionaries! Heaven knows we need them!

Oh wowww Amen

Well a good place to start is Edwards himself, and his very readable 'Humble Attempt.' www.amazon.com/Explicit-Agreement-Extraordinary-Religion-Advancement-ebook/dp/B005Z2CN4O/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=jonathan+edwards+an+humble+attempt&qid=1639057520&sr=8-1 Thanks for the feedback!

@@GoreBruce thankyou sir, I can't wait to dig in and the ebook is only 99 cents. Wow!

Well, I appreciate that, but I'm just a retired guy who teaches an adult Sunday School class. If you are ever in Spokane Washington, you'd be welcome to drop by!

@@GoreBruce It's awsome that you reply to posts. I am not in Washington. Thanks for what you do. I can't get enough. It is difficult to find souls out there that I can draw edification from. You and a few others do that. Do you have a Presbyterian flock you can point me to near Huntington Beach CA. Or I am retiring near Phoenix in a couple years. God bless you Bruce.

@@christiankraft2447 I don't have firsthand knowledge of this church, but it looks pretty good from its online presentation, so I guess I suggest starting with St. Peter's By the Sea Presbyterian Church. (Link below). Blessings! www.stpetershb.org/

More friendly than a RU-vid Playlist?

Jan Uddin There are no end of utopian mythologies that have done great harm. Puritan postmillennialism stands alone as a force that has done such great good.

I am open and praying into this as it certainly does tint one's world view. Thanks for that great series and for your teaching

Puritan "utopianism" was based firmly on the power of God's Holy Spirit to overcome the depravity of man. Those other mystery religions believed the the power of a few enlightened elites who would impose through the scheming of men. The true hope worships God, the false one worships man.

Edwards is almost universally regarded as post-millennial, but he did take a historicist view of the book of Revelation.

"where also our Lord was crucified" might be a metaphorical "where," so not necessarily Jerusalem. Also, Jerusalem was never a "great city."

Fair enough. Thanks!

That is not necessarily an army of "men."

My theological perspectives are contained in the following document, available at the 'about' page of my website. www.brucegore.com/brucewgore/Text/FaithStatement.pdf Thanks for your interest!

Bruce Gore thank you for teaching series, I’ve been listening to your series on the book of revelation today at work. I really enjoy it.

Thank you that answered my question.

I hope you'll stay with this series. It may help!

@@GoreBruce Thank you for your reply, I will watch the series.

Yes, I agree. The heart of the postmillennial view is that the New Testament interprets the Old, and not the other way around (e.g., Acts 15:15-17). Thanks for your thoughts.

@@GoreBruce, the heart of the premil view is that the promises are mutually exclusive. 😁

Thanks for the question! Wesley generally shared the historicist views of his day, as would be found in most protestant commentators on the book of Revelation. While I don't specifically mention Wesley in my earlier lecture in this series on the historicist approach, much of what I say would apply to him as well. Each of those in the historicist tradition introduced their own specific opinions on various points, of course, and Wesley was no exception. All of them united, however, in condemning the pope of Rome as the Antichrist. That perspective has become much less visible in more recent years, although you can still find folks who fervently hold to that view.

Bruce Gore Seventh Day Adventists still seem convinced that the pope is the anti Christ

Yes! ...it is foundational to their eschatology.

Bruce Gore it all sounds like it fits really well prior to any sort of examination. Thanks again for the lessons, they are great!

The pope of Rome as antichrist was the prevailing view among Protestants of all sorts from Luther until some time during the 20th century.

You are EXACTLY spot on. This business of "miracle" as per their "survival" is simply a response to a dispensationalist Jew-obsessed fever that has _captured_ the Protestant/Evangelical church. And _he_ should know better, but it is my opinion that this gentleman is easily propagandized himself. And btw, it is _far_ from clear what the "Jews" of today are _racially_ exactly. There is a continuing debate on whether the Ashkenaz (90 % of "Jews") are Turkic (khazarian) or Middle-Eastern. A recent study that accepted a Middle-Eastern derivation concluded they were essentially 40% historically "Jewish." Is this sufficient? It merely points up the absurdity of the RACIAL angle of claims of a necessary "Abrahamic" derivation for some future mass-conversion of "the Jews." Needless to say, this has had a devastatingly corrosive and I believe an essentially ruinous effect on the Church of Jesus Christ. Will this man listen to such critiques? Not if he is mind-controlled by 50-70 years of media-saturation propaganda. It appears to me that that is exactly the case.

I tend to agree despise his largely good treatment of the topics. Israel and the Jews were never a race and could absorb anyone who wanted to follow the God of Jacob. How then can you call them a generic group when so many could easily mingle in. This is why Paul said to dispense with genealogies. Persecution of Jews is just not true - if you never even mention the behaviour of this particular group during such times as they claim.

another example does not contradict the claim to rarity

The Assyrians are still around too (they are Nestorian Christians now), as are the Egyptians and the Abyssinians/Ethiopians and the Persians and some other peoples mentioned in the OT under various archaic names. Even the Samaritans are still around, although I have read they are developing genetic problems from excessive inbreeding.

i'm with you,i love the reformers,but even chuck missler says they missed and continue to miss the boat on their Eschatology.and denying the supernatural aspects and promises of Revelations.

By today's standards, all the early Calvinists would be regarded as "hyper."

@@michaels4255 I don't know, most of the arguments I find against "Calvinism" today are against doctrine explicitly denied by the confessions those early Reformers wrote. Then again, most of the arguers I run across are so terrible that they can't actually argue against the system as believed by actual humans and just insist without evidence or logic that you have to believe their strawman version to be consistent because _vague hand waving_ reasons.

Not today, we can see the advance of the good news in Africa or Asia.

It's a progression. It doesn't happen instantly.

+John O'Donnell Thank you!