This is why I roll my eyes when people say long roadtrips are hard on cars. A warm engine running steady state on the freeway is the easiest condition for a vehicle!
I think that comment usually relates to the break in period of the vehicle and still holds true. I have never heard someone say steady state is always bad for an engine.
I'm terrified of cold starts and damaging my engine, so when I'm not driving it I just let it idle in the driveway 24/7. My Outback has been running nonstop for a year and a half now. Not going to be the victim of unnecessary engine wear.
Now, there are vehicles that turn off by themselves, go to zero oil pressure, and turn back on by themselves, at a traffic signal. It is the most stupid design flaw ever.
That's not such a bad design at all. The extra wear on the starter is thought about, so they usually have a heavier-duty one, the battery usually needs to be bigger in order to account for the extra energy needed and going to zero oil pressure at a traffic signal is not terrible as the residue oil is still enough to keep the engine lubricated until the oil recirculates. In our car with the start-stop system the engine only turns off once it's warm and the battery is charged
My neighbor "warms up her car" by revving the cr## out of it for a couple of minutes. I made the mistake of talking to her about that and she went into total Karen mode "you think that just because I'm a woman that I don't know how to warm up my car". Her cars last about a year (one winter) before they start belching smoke.
Another thing he did not mention is that the metals are more brittle when cold. Cracking is much more of a risk. One thing I learned studying auto technology is that you can think of melting starting from the cold temp on up. The metal “softens” and becomes more pliable: I.e. less brittle. And all the metals are selected/designed to be at their optimum size, shape and “softness” (for lack of a better term) at full operating temperatures. And his insistence about cold oil and first few seconds after start are spot on. After decades of auto work, and hundreds of hours working on and rebuilding engines and seeing the effects, I feel like I actually feel the scraping hard cold parts being beat up on first cold start of the day. I have a diesel with an engine monitor installed and never drive until the oil/coolant are at 100 degrees. And then only gently until over 130. And then only moderately until full temps are reached. I never have even the finest metal particles on my magnetic drain plug.
I think the right therm would be ductility or elasticity in this case, definitely not softness... But you are right, the hotter most metals get, the more malleable and less brittle they behave...
@@camillosteuss I didn’t think the average reader would get the idea with the more technically correct terms you suggest. I feel like you need some background study in metallurgy to find those terms understandable to a layman. But yes…those are the terms used by professional materials and metallurgy types.
Things like rings won't start to go "soft" until 600*F and cams - chains would never get over 400 so I completely disagree. The exhaust valve is designed to run hot, up to 1,500*F and beyond that it deforms as a "tulip" when it fails.
Wow 600km of driving does the same damage as a single cold start, that is a scary statistic I'd love to read that study if you know where it can be found.
230k miles on a M57 diesel. Original turbo. Mpg matches factory spec. Get in and go gently until hot. Floor it now again when hot. Change oil annually. Can't go wrong. Only idles for a minute or two when I have to scrape the windscreen.
Great video! On my car I have installed diesel coolant heater and no more cold starts! No more scraping the ice of the windows and freezing inside car. It took me a 3 days to install the heater together with coolant flush but man what a beauty! Now when I need to drive I just press on the button on the remote and I wait 15-30 min depending of outside winter temperature and all the ice melts from a windows, engine is preheated to operating temperature and it's nice and warm inside the car. Best investment ever let me tell you! 😊
@@torquecars I can't tell you what it looks like globally but in Poland they're somewhat readily available, there's a bunch of garages around that specialize with branded auxilliary heaters, lots of trucks also come with coolant heaters & independent A/C stock. Not very common around here as it's not that cold over here but they're certainly popular in Scandinavia
5 minute warm up and 5 minute idle shutdown and my turbo engine has done 933,000km. I’ll stick to my routine. As for coolant temp sensor, they are now mostly cylinder head temp sensors so it’s better indication of the engine temp.
I'm not sure if i have ever seen a water temperature sending unit that wasn't plumbed into the water jacket on a head. Drove a lot of trucks with full guages.
@@davidpotter7484 trucks like Cummins have one for the engine ecu and one for the dash. The dash one is usually on the thermostats hot side on outlet pipe.
The cold start terror certainly is not a myth , and it does happen . This is why I start my car & let it run a couple minutes before driving . Once I start driving , I go easy on the throttle until it's at least half way warmed up. I also drive in a conservative fashion unlike other idiots on the road . Those things along with a good synthetic oil , the horrors of a cold start are minimized .
I do similar to you. I start the car, wait like a minute before I start driving and then I go around the city for 5 minutes or so before going to the highway, never going beyond 3000rpm
I used to do this until the car started chucking out blue smoke due to burning oil Sold car after this, I now start the car and drive off after 10/30 secs as it comes off choke and not had an issue since, by leaving a car idling your prolonging the amount of time the engine is running cold causing excessive wear especially if your car has a turbo... It'll be the turbo that dies first.
So wrong in many ways you need to let your car warm up let the rpm come down and your coolant get warm for your water pump wow! You guys I have no idea how to take care of of a car
Mechanical sympathy was one reason my family bought a short range EV. Short distances with a petrol engine is hard on the engine. Our second vehicle (the one my wife normally drove) did maybe 4000 to 5000km a year, and the oil always smelled a little bit of petrol as the rich running engine contaminated the oil, while the lack of a nice extended hot running engine meant the PCV system never properly cleaned this up. Now we use the EV for all the short trips. The Diesel is used for the long distance trips. Of course there is a lot of emotion and argument for and against EVs, but the one argument very very few people seem to understand, is that having one EV in the fleet can save costs on the entire fleet. People waste way too much time making either/or arguments, or looking at each vehicle in isolation. You should look at the total cost of the fleet. Now I will probably have a new problem. My diesel now hardly lives outside of the longer trips, of which I do maybe 4000 to 6000km a year. And I still need to annually service it.
@@JAMESWUERTELEwhile I do agree that a secondary vehicle discount on insurance is a bit underwhelming, especially when you only have one driver. My car shop has started to buy electric Fiat 500s troubleshooting the batteries and fixing them and then you have nice parts runners for less than 4 grand. They probably don't have the range that most suburban drivers are looking for, but I think they're kind of useful for city people and rural people. It's still feels like we're we're in early EV stages for a mainstream adoption and consumers should probably be aware of where they are on the technology curve. I think they'll be a decent option as we get a bit more standardization, maturation, and we get some more stability in regards to all the supply chain stuff. It's kind of like a carjack. It's useful for some people and just a heavy ugly waste of space for many others.
A lot of wear occurs when an engine has not run for a long time, f.e. been in storage for more than a year. Best is to turn the engine a couple of times round via the crank pulley, afterwards remove fuel pump relay and let the engine cycle a couple of times via the starter motor. When the engine has not run for a REALLY long time, or it is unknown how long it has been? Use fogging oil in the cylinders. And change the oil and filters, yes filters, also fuel filter. Also on regular driven cars, change the engine oil BEFORE schedule. City driving, short distances = severe conditions. Usually interval is half of normal.
I like it, never thought about moving by hand the engine and then use the starter with ignition off to lubricate everything before really starting it, I knew about putting a few drops of oil on cylinders before starting it, that I usually do with generators when they haven't been started in more than 6 months
With most modern cars if you push the break and gas down and hold them the car cranks without gas or ignition. Two cycles of three seconds will get oil wherever it needs to be.
I am from Canada and at one point lived in Dawson Creek, B.C. In the winter it is not uncommon to reach -40C. I remember one day leaving our office in a Ford Crown Vic with an outside temp of -40C. I hit the gas and the oil filter blew off as the oil we were using as still conventional. At these temps conventional oil wont flow at all however -40C however synthetic does flow. I used a pure synthetic in my cars and never had an oiling problem.
If the manual of car allowe to use 0w30 or 0w20, In winter use a 0w oil. Liqui moly oil are very good at cold viscosity. Check your car owners manuals and see what viscosity you can use to your car. I live in Romania and I have a Honda civic 2011, winter I use 0w20 and in the summer I use 5w30 from amsoil. In my country temp never drop -10.
@@christianluggert9052 The difference between 5w20 AND 0w20 is the oils cold flow capability nothing more. the W stands for winter and the lower the number the better the oil is supposed to flow in - degrees.
@@MehdiS-musicthe w stands for weight, a term used to denote thickness. I’m not sure where you heard otherwise. 5w-40 means it can have the viscosity of a 5 weight oil when cold, and a 40 weight when warmed up. So the thickness doesn’t change (as much) from cold to hot, minimizing wear at either temperature extreme.
Oh good, I don't think my ritual has been too bad for the past 20 years. I'll start, let idle for 2-5 minutes (depends on the engine and outside temp), then drive lightly until water temp is WELL established. Not too much throttle, never past 3k rpm. I bought a new car in August and was thrilled when I found it had an oil temp sensor. Now I can definitely make sure the engine is up to temp before any sort of spirited driving.
If people have a little mechanical understanding they tend to do the right things automatically. Well done. Which car is this with the oil temp, they are getting more common now?
Hello, new to cars. Why is the idle always so high when the engine first starts? Does it get higher as the car ages also? I've had an older car that would idle at 2k for several seconds before dropping down
@@iank6897High revs are normal especially in Winter. Cold air has more oxygen so the cars opens the trottle until the brain(computer) measures air fuel ratio. When this ratio has been found it sets itself down when the most desirable ammout of mixture has been found.Now...on really older cars with no electronics and only with simple mechanical choke the driver itself had to found the the right position of choke to start the car efficient until it warms up. This 2k reving in Winter is normal. When warm outside it should not rev at all high and if then it takes 3-5 seconds. This is all cars electronic measuring system. In extreme cold weather it can stay even longer high reving until engine temp is reached.
@@iank6897 the motor runs a warm up cycle while it reaches operating temperatures. it’ll idle down once sufficiently warm. my mustang idles at 1500 cold start, 1000 while warming up & settles @750 idle when it reaches operating temp. the idle ranges shouldn’t change with age far as i know.
I can't tell you how many times I've watched some start their car and instantly put it in gear and go ripping down the road, when it's freezing temps outside. I'll let run for a few minutes, the way I figure if the idle is still high the car shouldn't move. Then never above 3K rpm!
It's crazy isn't it. People often seem to think warming the engine up means ragging it from cold or just letting it idle for 10-15 minutes on the drive. The older generation also have the habit of revving up as they switched off the engine, another bad habit on modern engines. I still can't work out why they do this.
@@torquecars Old habits die hard. I don't think there are any carburetted engines on the market any longer. No even in the second hand market unless you're looking for classics.
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten in my car (diesel)with a passenger , start the car up ( dead cold) and after 15- 30 seconds they say " what are you doing?" While the engine is still running at 1100 rpm. These same people jump in their cars fire it up and slam it in gear and their off... they tell me the heat will come on quicker 🤦♂️
@@Chrisallengallery Even on carb'd engines, this doesn't make sense. If you rev a carb'd engine then shut the ignition off, the cylinders will continue to draw air/fuel mixture into the combustion chamber as there's still plenty of fuel in the bowl of the carb... but now there's no spark to light it off... guess where that goes! That's right -- past the rings and into the sump!
@@jeffcullen6573actually very few gas engines lack a fuel solenoid, which shuts off the gas right at the carburetor the split second the key hits the off position. As the engine spins down the gas is blown out of the engine on those last couple of of seconds of it spinning, because the valves are still opening and closing letting air (at a very high rate) flow through the cylinder and flush the last of the fuel out. Along with the residual heat in the cylinders, as gas evaporates very rapidly, and again the high cylinder temps increase that evaporation drastically.
This is exactly right. However, when it's truly cold out, a one minute idling warmup is a good idea. At temps below 20F (-7C) I let my engines do this. Engine RPM needs to be kept fairly low without lugging for the first few miles. Automatic transmissions basically do this for you if you're gentle on the throttle. If your car has an electronic oil level indicator, you will not get a reading until the oil is up to temp. In my BMW, that's usually six miles or so in winter.
That’s how my dad destroyed his Ford Focus and has spent thousands trying to fix it. It’s all in his driving, he always turns it on and immediately takes off for very short errands, brings it back, shuts it off and repeat. Tens of times per day, without a single heat cycle complete. I warned him to no avail. He is currently looking to buy another car, to destroy it the exact same way.
Couple of years ago a neighbour crancked his engine EVERY day till battery was almost empty and starter rpm dropped then finally engine started running and he hit FULL throttle for a 45 to 60 seconds to be sure the engine would not stop and to heat up....EVERY MORNING 😂😂😂 Not surprisinly .......after 1 year...he needed another car....🤣🤣🤣
One guy on RU-vid made a test on a cylinder head mounted to a lathe. He ran the head for a few minutes without oil and the damage was none. Next he disassembled all the parts, cleaned'em up to be free of oil and any lubricants, just plain dry and also ran for a few minutes after reassembly. There was some visible damage, but not something terrible. Also at the first minutes of the video he manually cranked the oil pump to show that oil passes instantly since the first degrees of rotation. Of course the oil pressure needs to build up.and that can take 2-5 seconds, but thinking that the engine lacks lubrication in first few minutes (LoL) after startup is dumb.
I've noticed a lot of motorcyclists tend to leave their bikes to warm up for a few minutes before riding off. It seems like bad advice that has been passed down over the generations. I'm a biker and did this when I started over 20 years ago but haven't done it in years. I subscribe to the belief that the oil will warm up quicker when driving and engines work better under a small load. It also seems like a waste of fuel but premature engine wear is obviously a bigger concern. Good to see your explanation backs up my own theory😃
I warm my GSX1100ef a while before riding. It is aircooled and has a large oil cooler. It takes a long time to begin to warm. It's 40 years old this year and never been apart. Oil is changed very often.
As a trucker that warms up large diesel engines every day, we start the engine and immediately raise the rpm to 900 to build some oil pressure and “break” the oil to properly reach top end of the engine, otherwise your top end isn’t gonna get lubricated in awhile as oil is thick and hard to pump upwards to far bearings. If left at slow idle this takes much longer and damaging engine more than helping. Just make sure to also not shut the engine off immediately after a heavy load as turbo needs cooling down. My gas car has built in electric pump that pumps coolant through the turbo to cool it off for 3 minutes after the shutdown. This avoids having to idle engine even for cooldown. Prolonged slow idle is the worst thing for an engine especially the newer ones.
From the comments below it still appears many drivers don't have a clue about the proper warm up of their engines. NO, it is NEVER a good idea to let your engine sit idling to warm up. Once the engine has run for about 10 seconds, the oil pressure is up and oil is circulating throughout. It can't be stated more emphatically, a cold idling engine has water condensation and raw gas collecting on the cold cylinder liners, and diluting and contaminating the oil. As so much engine wear happens at start up, sitting idling cold is essentially prolonging that period of maximum cylinder and bearing wear...! Best and fastest way to warm an engine is, as soon as you can drive it at moderate speeds until the water temps hit the 'normal range' before increasing your engine load and speed. I have an oil temperature gauge, and I find the oil doesn't hit the normal oil temperature range until I've put about 20-30 - km or so of driving on it, so I avoid highway speeds until the oil has had a chance to warm too... Also, you should drive at least 30-minutes on the highway each week to have the oil reach peak operating temperatures for an extended period, so the oil dissolved gas and water has a chance to boil off.
I work 20 minutes away and live in a rural area, the highway is is honestly the only way to get to work. And it's 70. I live my life by these simple words. It's called operating temperature for a reason.
When its below -10C here I let it warm for a few minutes. but I drive a Cast block, cast head little truck and the last thing I need is a cracked head. It also has an internal slave cylinder for the clutch so I like to get a little heat transfer through to that rather than beating on cold fluid and seals. It gets to -42C here in the winter some time so I am probably going to let it sit and warm up for 10-15mins to defrost 2007 Ranger 3.0 V6 with 5Speed manual
I start the engine , reverse out of my garage, get out, close and lock the door, takes maybe 2 mins, then another minute down my long driveway to a minor road, then another 2mins to reach an A road, by that time I haven't passed 40 mph, then I drive steady for the next 5 miles until the road opens up and I'm at a steady 60mph or so. Never had an issue driving like this.
Career auto worker of 22yrs. Engine builder for 11. Amateur racer for 10. Can confirm: everything he states in this video checks out. Simplest solution: wait until your engine slows to its actual idle speed before driving the car, and drive it easy until the coolant temp (temp gauge) gets up to temp. On cold days, it will take the motor longer to reach this target. Just be patient, work your phone or stereo while you wait. Your $6-20k motor will live twice as long (possibly more).
Letting a car idle for a few minutes before taking off will not in fact harm it. The engine will be cold no matter what, and letting it slowly warm itself for a short while is arguably a proper thing to do. It will bring the engine closer to it's natural operating temperature where putting some load onto it at that point (to gently warm it the rest of the way) will not be a problem. You may also notice that cold engines idle quite high, this is for several reasons, but consider it a small load on it until it warms up enough to drop to around 1k rpm idle speed. Also consider that automatic transmissions are likely to experience more wear when cold as well, and dropping them into gear while still in this high-idle phase isn't great for them; engineers call this a garage-shift and take great care to reduce the wear that occurs in this period but cannot prevent it entirely.
I agree. My Honda idles at 2,000 rpm when cold, then after 1 minute, it drops to 1,500 rpm and continues to slow down to normal idle speed. If I take off before it drops to 1,500 then going in reverse and slipping the clutch is pretty hectic. Waiting that one minute for the revs to drop also prevents it over-revving when changing gears. It is 10-30 degrees C here. I could probably drive it after 15 seconds after cold starting with no problems but the car is unpleasant to drive and the clutch is hard to use when idling at 2,000 rpm. It is a message from Honda to say "wait one minute". If I was in freezing temperatures I would let it warm up for a few minutes.
I love your phrase, “mechanical sympathy”! Really, it is just common sense in the way you treat your car. Thanks for explaining the whys and wherefores.
Also I would like to add, it's absolutely crucial to use the correct engine oil, especially in the winter and change it earlier than recommended by the manufacturer. I live in the central Russia where the temperature gets as low as -40 sometimes. I always change my oil at every 5k miles. We also use webasto autonomous systems and plug in 240v equipment to warm up the engine in the extreme temperatures.
I think it would be cool to have an electric bypass oil pump for pre-starting. It can shoot oil through a check valve ahead of the output side if the engine oil pump
All truth! Lived opposite someone years ago who'd habitually high rev their engine straight away after switching on for several minutes, to warm up. That was my alarm clock!
I worked for BHP rail, they have Toyota Hilux diesels that are run 24 hrs all day 365 days a year as they do 12 hr shifts day and night. They are only ever shut down for refuelling. They never get cold start wear and last over a million miles easily.
thats why i love driving sub 1000$ cars in the winter. i get in my diesel 1.9tdi and redline it at -20c so it warms up faster at the redlights. did this for a month straight, goin to work every day, engine has 400km on it, still runs like a champ and pulls… like a 1.9tdi
I operated a few golf courses equipped with commercial mowing and tractor equipment, mostly diesel powered. Usually to start this equipment the operator has to press and hold down the low oil safety pressure bypass button to allow the engines to start, and hold the bypass in until oil pressure was attained 6 seconds or so. My mechanic recommended just cranking the engines for several seconds to circulate oil before starting, and then start by the holding in the bypass safety. Then the engines once started almost had instant oil pressure. I hope this was the correct thing to do. This mechanic was excellent and I never lost an engine under his watch.😊
Why wouldn't the injection pump automatically engage the moment the oil pressure switch satisfied? Gasoline cars need such a system to cut the ignition if the oil pressure switch fails to satisfy during cranking or falls out while driving.
When the oil is thicker and flows slower, it still flows! As long as the pump delivers pressure and the thick oil still creates a film between the moving parts (cams, bearings, piston rings and piston to cylinder wall), which is a stronger film than when the oil is at operating temp. Thicker = slower = stronger film! That's common sense by the way! Indeed during the first minutes, when close to freezing temps outside, I've also heard the piston slap on my Ecoboost 1.0L 125hp when I put some mild load on it, so it doesn't seem to like it when I rush! Whenever I leave it at idle for like 3 minutes at freezing temps (after the engine was frozen too after the night), the slap sound no longer gets heard when putting load on the engine, even at high load. So unlike other engines I've experienced with so far, the Ecoboost really has some smaller tolerances inside the engine and needs a warmup at first more importantly than on other engines in order to last long. So far it has no wear according to the annual worn oil analysis that I do, but that tapping sound that is heard ONLY on load after cold start is definitely a piston slap, cause it only happens on load.
0w oils is killing cars all round me. My mechanical friends go to 5w30 and have 0 oil burn and very long running engines. 5w or 10w oil films over parts longer than 0w oils. Some add lucas oil additives to do the same thing. Not very much is perfect. 20% is extreeme in good young engines. Dirty oil kills quickly. 3000 to 5000 miles seems to be best.
I'm basically forced to allow my car to warm up by idling. For one, it's better for my sanity and fear of possibly putting more wear on the trnasmission by shifting at the higher rpm before it drops. And two, because I live in a neighborhood with several steep hills and there is no way I can leave without my car hitting 3k rpm. Fortunately, none of our cars have had any engine issues, including my parents who turn the key and go.
Fair enough then, I did discuss idling and a better faster way to warm up the engine in this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aCGsZp-OG4c.html
do a RVS treatment, and here in Finland we use electric engine block heaters to help during winters. Also, letting the engine idle for a few minutes before driving is always a good idea
My warm up in my new mux I idle it for about 2 miuntius then drive it gently for about 5 then drive it a bit less than normal for 10 miunts then drive as normal. I never really start that car for less than 100 klms. And yes I do a similar thing for shut down.. drive it gently for the last 5 k.. then idle for one to 2 miuntius.. And it's 40 degrees C here in Australia today.. I still warm my older cars to.. E36 BMW V6 commodore tb42 Nissan patrol Each is different.. Cheers mate..
On my 2.0 TDI I recently switched from warming it up with low revs. I used to shift at 2k RPM and usually drive w around 1500 RPM but recently found out, that RPMs are not what's 'killing' the engine. Exactly what you said, it's putting stress on cold components (for which oil temp is a good indicator) before they're at operating temps. IMO there is a fine line between RPM and Torque which should be balanced to the traffic conditions and temps of the engine
One good thing would be that modern engine would be fitted with a small electric pump would pressurize the engine oil prior a start. It would also have a heater to warm up the oil to a minimum temperature. That would probably help to increase the life spans of the engine. I doubt that would represent a lot of % of the price of the car
F1 cars won't run until the oil temps are raised and the engine has been warmed, they are so well engineered they need the heat before they can run properly. I have seen people use oil pan warmers in cold climates to do just that.
Many older vehicles had block heaters that you could plug in and keep your oil warm. My 2001 Mercury came with it standard, and if your car does not have one, you can even get one installed.
Some of the turbo post oilers also have a pre oil function that pumps oil in the key on position before you start the car. It supposedly significantly reduced wear.
Sure but then the car would last longer, causing the company to lose money, because you have a functioning car and you are not looking to buy the new model immediately.
During cold winters (-10°C and less, less meaning going even more down) i always start, hit the full throttle and drive with pedal down, so i don't freeze inside. I value my life over the engine that can be repaired😊
I have a 1999 Mercedes W202 C280. I noticed that when I cold start it the RPM needle starts off at a higher RPM for roughly the first 10 seconds. I usually just wait until the needle goes down and then I start driving
On some engines, you can see the cams trough the oil cap, and in the first seconds after turning engine on, there's almost no oil on the cams.A strong indicator that you should not drive in the first minute or so.
Some people write here that 2 minutes is enough to warm up the engine during a cold start. Lol. What is a cold start for you? In my case, 2 minutes is not enough. Have you ever sat on leather chairs that are like an ice cube? When the windshield is instantly covered with ice with one exhale. And the power steering howls and asks not to touch it) I recently started my E39 M62B44TU at minus 40. Greetings from Siberia. And thanks to Germany for the beloved old BMWs that are still alive and give positive emotions in harsh conditions.
Cheers from Northern Norway. Been there many times. Scraping the inside and outside of the windscreen is always entertaining. I really enjoy the old plastic bag filled with hot water to defrost the fuel door trick.
what is a short trip? And what conditions? I've recently moved from an old petrol to an old diesel (turbocharged golf) and I don't turn on the ignition until the glowplugs tell tale clears. I notice that even after a mile trip to the shops, the car has no trouble starting. When starting it up on a frosty day that's when I notice it chugs and smokes a bit.
I would say a short trip is anything that doesn't allow the engine to reach operating temperature, but I guess highway and town driving are also factors here.
this explains why those PHEVs last so long. if you charge it every time you get home, the combustion engine never really gets to power short journeys. and if you know you have barely enough electric range to reach your destination, might as well turn on the normal engine early on in the trip, when you're on the motorway or other long winding roads where there's few to no stops and the engine can just happily start with a low lasting load.
I have a PHEV, at 7k miles the oil still looks brand new because the gas engine really only gets used for 3-4k of those 7k. I expect this car to last as long as the battery honestly.
Wait for high idle on cold start to drop and when it settles (usually around 1000RPM), the car is ready to be driven. Simple. That is usually 30 seconds or more depending on how cold it is out. That's what I go by before I load my engine. As for driving warm up, I would say keep it limited to about 1/4 throttle and below 3000RPM for your average car engine for the first 10-15 minutes depending on driving conditions. I know a guy with a Honda Accord that would get in, start the car and immediately start driving. Years of this treatment led the the car sounding worse and worse. Lots of clicking and rattling. I'm convinced the only reason it still worked at all was because it was a Honda engine. Still, even great engines are guaranteed to eventually fail. It was running, but it was running very poorly. This was all due to poor cold-start hygiene. One interesting note is regarding hybrids, or at least, Toyota hybrids. Toyota has the hybrid system programmed to prioritize the electric motors heavily when the engine first fires up. People who drive hybrids like this may have noticed in scenarios where your cold start occurs during initial acceleration that the hybrid battery drains unusually fast, which indicates the hybrid system giving more power to the electric motors to "unload" the gas engine while engine oil circulates on start-up. This is actually pretty cool because hybrids can actually protect themselves from user error whereas normal ICE cars are at the mercy of their driver. I suppose the one piece of advice for hybrid cold-starting is try to get the engine on before you begin driving and if you do find yourself in a scenario where you will be mid-acceleration on cold start, try to do so only with your hybrid battery fully charged. If this can be avoided though, it should be.
I've heard other bloggers (i.e. mechanics) advicing that, as soon as one starts the vehicle, you can drive away at a slow pace, say, under 25 mph. What's your take on that, sir?
I don't think the speed matters, it is the RPM and LOAD, my aim on a cold engine on my car is to keep the RPM below 2000 and use a light load which gives me a top speed of around 45 in 6th gear. I do agree that it is better to drive it than idle it, and if you live in an area that is too cold to drive it, then hold the revs to 1200 or 1300 to add some load whilst it warms up.
All of my life in very cold weather I have always allowed my engines to fast smooth idle for 20 seconds or so before doing anything. And then drive off in a lower gear whilst not putting pressure on the motor until a mile or so.
Would a hot climate around 25-38°C help lessen the warm-up period? And that that the short journeys wouldn't be as detrimental? I would assume so. However, I don't fully grasp the reason behind the chemical principles and there may be further implications
Yes, I only realised that my thermostat was leaking when the temperature dropped below 5c. The engine simply wouldn't reach operating temp, but would when it was warmer outside.
in my experience, its either the wrong oil doing the most wear on a cold start, usually cheap oil, or that first start after an oil change that does the most wear
When I start up the engine, my wrx initially has the revs around 2k rpm to warm up, and it keeps it there for a little while. When it drops below 1k rpm, thats when I start driving, and I drive carefully until the oil reaches 170⁰F, trying to keep it between 2k to 2.5k rpm.
All engines should be warmed up to operating temperature before driving. I think it’s a good habit to get into,I keep trying to tell my wife not to drive within seconds of starting her car as it’s really not good for the engine but it’s her car and if she wants to drive it when it’s cold that’s up to her. My car is warmed up to operating temperature before I drive it.
You can speed up the ~20 min it will take at idle in cold weather to warm up to full operating temp by immediately revving to 5-6,000 rpm. Then it will only take 2-3 min.
My neighbour boots it out of her driveway and seems to go through cars like 3-4 per year. I don’t wonder why. My 2019 A6 is a diesel so they always take longer to warm up, but if you turn the engine on and don’t move away within 30 seconds, a message on the dash says “dont let the engine warm up by idling”.
I typically give my truck the amount of time it takes to put my seat belt on. Maybe a little longer if my window is frozen over. When engine oil is cold, it bypasses inside the oil filter, letting your engine run with unfiltered oil. The idea is to get engine oil temperature up as fast as possible. Sitting and idling does not do this. I monitor my engine oil temperature regularly. Idle off cold start it takes 10-15 minutes before it even begins to climb. If i drive immediately, the oil temperature will begin to rise within a couple minutes. 30 seconds to a minute is adequate, then carry on your merry way.
Easy way to circulate oil before starting: With most modern cars if you push the break and gas down and hold them the car cranks without gas or ignition. Two cycles of three seconds will get oil wherever it needs to be.
Lol looks like I did it somewhat correctly instinctively. Idle for 2-3 mins, drive very gently for a couple more. In 6 years of my Honda Fit ownership nothing happened to the engine except two burned coils (it had 78K kms when I got it).
The old practice of leaving a motor to warm up has as much to do with choke\ throttle response as letting the tolerances expand. Modern injectors mean that idle is established within 10 seconds. The only time I'll let it idle on the drive is in winter.
In the turbo Benz, I drive very gently until the oil temp gets out of the blue zone (probably around 65 Celsius)... on the beater Nissan it's thrown in gear soon as the dash finishes testing the warning lights, but still doesn't see over 2000 RPM until it's up to temp.
my 1.4 tsi CAVD makes a loud idling sound right after cold starts, after ~20 seconds or so the sound will be alot quiter which i think means i can drive off (in low rpm)
My audi TT BAM 2002 has an intial start up of around 1200rpm and after a few minutes drop to tick over at 8000 rpm this I where I confidently start my journey
I go so far as to keep my heating Off until the temp needle reaches the normal operating point. Let the engine keep as much of that initial heat as possible.
We can't even try that where I live (unless you park in a warm garage). Most days I can wait for idle-down and go, however, in the wet/cold weather (remember that modern cars use the AC compressor in most modes always now and that drops moisture into the system - de-humidification), the initial start will fog the car up when you are trying to clear your windscreen because of moisture left in the vent system from that very AC system run (which you needed to keep the windows clear the last time you drove the car). Until the engine is producing some heat - you can't clear the windows. Frost becomes a nightmare with extended run times to clear the windows. And for anyone telling me that - just wipe the windscreen while you drive - that's just dangerous.
Got a hybrid and it automatically goes forward at a slow speed just enough to get out in the main road, takes like 1-2 minutes don't have to press the pedal, surely that's as good as being stationary? Yaris 21' . It's a habit already, but it takes a minute to settle in as well anyway, put my hoodie there, backpack here, cry because I go to work again... the usual. I also think modern cars are smarter about warming up these days, when it's cold the engine kicks in immediately compared to hot weather where engine goes on but works on battery still unless empty.
Never use full throttle either. I've never blown an engine up in 50 years of driving. I work on aircraft and we don't use full power until 50C oil temp is achieved ⚠️
In Nordic countries if you keep your car outside in -10c to -30c temperatures(typical winter temps), it is impossible to just get in the car start it wait 10 seconds and drive... All your windows are deep frozen and nothing but the heater can help to defrost the window areas to the point that you can scrape the ice off to the point that you can see outside... So you have to idle the engine for several minutes with the heater at max, otherwise you can´t drive! And in such low temperatures even the best 0W grade oils are very thick..
Interesting, you get much colder temps than we do here in the UK (we typically see around -6 at the low end (winter average is around 4.8c) with a few spikes beyond that), so I'm always intrigued to see how people cope with this. How long do engines take to warm up enough to pull away safely in those conditions?
@@torquecars Takes up to 5 minutes, but as i mentioned the problem is the deep frozen snow covered windows and windshield, if you cant see out of your car you cant drive it!!
@@torquecars I can´t comment on that since i do not own an EV, but what i´v heard is the range gets cut in half or even more, but i do see some Tesla idiots around... :D
True, but also i really try to avoid having my engine idle for such a long time for fear of the rich cold idle regime ruining the cylinder walls__as you rightly mentioned so much work needed to be done around the car before you can possibly drive off. So on very cold days I'd start scraping snow and ice first, around two thirds or three quarters thru the job I'd only then start my engine and run defrost, that way I'd wait max 3~4min before driving off. I'm generally satisfied with that plan.
Imagine that all symptoms discussed here are even many times worse with a new car. That's why my breaking in advice by far number one always is: take a day off, you have a new car after all and that doesn't happen for the most of us not that often and drive as many kilometers/miles in one day. Now and then a short coffee/lunch stop is perfect to let all the heat flow through the metals but don't let the engine get completely cold. Your piston rings will close perfect and oil consumption will be low.
Wait, are 'motor' and 'engine' interchangeable? English isn't my first language but I always thought that motor meant they got power from somewhere else, like a battery while an engine gets its power from combustion?
Yes motor is short for motor car, in a number of regions especially the UK, some regions say autos from "automotive" (but here in England auto means automatic). With the advent of electric cars I'm sure there will be more changes to the language we use about them. I do try to use neutral terms understood by as many as possible so i will keep this in mind for future videos.
@LieutenantNuggets No, engines can only rotate one direction. Motors can rotate either direction. But too many people have half-assed, "close-enough", "whatever" mentality. They don't know, and they don't want to know.
K20 does a warm up cycle for 2 mins and is monitored on the coolant temperature and oil temp. Soon as the revs drop she's ready for light throttle driving.
I just think of it as we as people dont eake right and up and head out the door...we get up , stretch, get ready, eat breakfast etc...i know we aren't 4,000lbs of metal burning explosive substances but I always let me car run until the idle comes down, that usually happens after i put on ny seatbelt and get my music going.
I have been hearing lots of feedback and read a lot about engines. I own a Golf mk7 1.6 TDI. The max RPM is 6000. I use synthetic 5 w 30 oil. My car won't show the oil temperature until it passes 45 degrees. Can you please tell me out of 6000 RPM, what is the max I can go up to when driving my car? Also, tell me the max RPMs I can go to while it starts to warm up. I really need to know this!
Generally when cold I'd keep it below 2k unless you're going up a steep hill then more like 3k and let the turbo build low-medium boost. Once fully warmed up you can take it to 6k anytime as rev limiter on normal cars is reasonably conservative, ofc during normal driving you probably wont go above 3k anyway and it's not ideal to bounce off the limiter.
Thank you for your video. I have a quick question. Do I have to change my transmission if my torque converter fails? I had an issue the other day and my dash was complaining that my transmission has reduced power and was overheating. I had the codes scanned and it said the torque converter failed. It was still shifting well enough until I left it at the dealership and I think the computers protected the transmission. But the dealership confirmed the torque converter has to be replaced on my car. It sucks because it only has 63k miles on it.
You do need to warm the engine up, idling is not ideal but i know you guys just can't drive it around at those temps straight away, so there is an idle method I recommend.... I have actually just uploaded an updated version of this video which should be clearer on this topic. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--_WtD0N6_Fk.html Add a little load whilst idling, just 200-500rpm and it will warm up much more quickly and safely.
Good advice, being able to see out is important - I should have mentioned that important fact. I guess I'm lucky as my demister is fantastically effective taking seconds to clear the screen in the worst conditions. I would encourage people to avoid idle and instead use light throttle and add around 200-300rpm to the idle speed so the warm up happens faster and safely. Idle was never designed to warm up, just to use minimal fuel and prevent stalling.
The engine (piston rings/cylinders) wears out quickly during the cold start because of the water condensation and destruction of the oil film. Not because it's too cold for the engine. The actual temperature doesn't matter. It take only a few crankshaft rotations to do the damage until the oil reaches the critical places. Basically you can't do anything about it. This start up wear is not about the engine warm up. These are 2 separate issues.
Winter, start engine defrost windows and go. I have my transmission programmed to shift at max 2k when transmission oil is cold. Summer, start wait to idle drop to normal and go. Transmission shifts at max 2k when oil is cold. This way the engine and the transmission heat up in the right way at the same time. Letting it sit all the time just gives you carbon buildup and takes ages to reach the desired temp. And if you were supposed to let it sit at idle for a long time the manufacturer would have told you. The cars are engineered and tested to do so at arctic temperatures. So don’t waste gas money on this, just use top quality oils that flow well at various conditions.
I have two cars, both German but different animals and different cold start idles; E60 550i V8 starts around 2000rpms and drops to 1000rpms within 35 seconds and its good to go and, 2 minutes later that v8 gives you a wooden stove heat😂. GLI 2.0T starts around 2200rpms and it takes more than a minute before the rpms drop to 1000, if you try drive it off right away it will not even shift properly but that might be due to DSG transmission.
I have a rover MGZR so even though the head gasket and all that has been upgraded I always make sure the car is warmed up but I tend to leave it to idle for about a minute then don't drive it anywhere near 3k revs (normally nice and low around 1.6k-2.2k) but I didnt know me leaving it for a minute on a cold start would be bad for it. So should I basically keep what I'm doing but when it's started up wait 10 seconds then drive carefully till it's at full operating tempts?
It is the revolutions, i.e. the work of the pistons, that cause engine wear, not the time of its operation. Therefore, the engine warm-up speed is not measured in minutes, but in the number of revolutions. When stationary, the engine rotates three times slower, which means that its wear is three times lower, so the thesis about the harmful long warm-up time of the engine is illogical, because time has no significance here.
Don't fall into the trap of confusing engine load with RPM, an engine under load (gently pulling the car at low rpms in this case) will warm up more quickly, avoid the acids and moisture build up associated with idling and the rich running cold engine and generally be better for the car and catalyst. A 3 times slower rotation will mean a longer warm up time and more wear rotations over this longer period. It would be wrong to assume a car is up to temperature after a set amount of rotations, load is very much a factor with warm ups.
That's actually your engine either compensating for the extra power needed to drive the oil pump, or raising RPMs to help lubricate the internals. In any case I (and presumably many) do the same
I drive off gently and warm her up. I figure the load will warm it more quickly and if i am not spinning her up, its all good. Things are so much better than they used to be. Modern cars are at operating temperature in just a few minutes and multigrade oils protect the engine until they are.
As soon as I open the door I put key into Ignition. As soon as I'm sitting in the car, engine is ready to start. That is done. Close the door, connect thr phone to charger, put on seat belt. All this takes about 10 seconds. 10 seconds to allow the oil hit all spots. I do NOT use the heater if possible, allowing all heat generated to heat the engine. I always bring the car on the motor way on my way home from the supermarket. I also reverse into my drive way. No Revesby used. Just ticking over. By the time I reverse park, unbuckle my seat belt disconnect my phone, the turbo charger has slowed right down. So when I do switch off the engine after I open my door, the turbo is revolving very slowly or even stationary. That means the turbo bearings are not running dry. I also keep the RPM at around 1,000 or 1100 till engine reaches normal working temperature.
