Just adding my 2 cents and repeating what a few of the other commenters said. You did an excellent job of explaining the way dipole speakers work and placement. I enjoy RU-vidrs such as yourself. You gave a great explanation without diving into the weeds and talking over your intended audience. Keep up the good work Sir !!!
yes this makes total sense,,di poles using reflection =larger sounding space,,,i even direct my surrounds away from listening position,,,,,but other u-tube pros are in disagreement of using di-poles,,, but i think it is up to the room itself,,,trial and error,,,i find your view on di-poles is spot on,,,thanks for clearing this topic up,,,
Thank you mate 😀. Yep, agreed that most of this game is trial and error. Everybody lives in different rooms and everyone also has different ears! I have pretty much tried all the options throughout the years and a decent set of dipoles always sounds the most correct to me 👌
Awesome video very informative - you know you're going to get a bunch of hate!... Mostly by uneducated people new to the A/V world who have heard someone say Dolby surround speakers for Atmos should be a direct radiating speaker... Not so fast! Not every movie made was created with Atmos in mind & for more than 50 years these new immersive formats didn't exist, that leaves a massive library of 1000's of 5.1 movies that actually work better on a home THX sound system with an 80hz xover, with matching L,C,R & subwoofers with dipoles for the side surrounds. l'm with you on dipoles, have been ever since 1992 & THX first became available for the home. Dipoles were chosen by Lucasfilm - the audio team responsible for creating the surround sound for Star Wars & the Indiana Jones movies. A team headed by Tom Holman & Anthony Grimani & most of the world's best movie sound engineers at Lucasfilm with the goal of taking their world class THX cinema experience and making their powerful signature sound available for the home with the same incredible industry standards that made the THX sound the most dynamic and powerful cinema sound ever developed. The Lucasfilm home THX sound bursts into action, the deep rumble of an earthquake shakes your bones as you're being slammed from the pounding Niagara Falls as the water hits you from 360 degrees of crushing waves full of salt and spray. The gentle peel of a baby laughing allows us to close out as we hear every soft and gentle little minute detail. Available to the home and delivering the same standards, only smaller versions but without compromise. Dipoles were chosen as the best surround speaker for the home for a bunch of different reasons, most of which you stated in your video & also to give the listeners the best theatrical surround experience in an average and or larger room without pulling the viewers attention off the screen a problem that previously existed by having direct monopoles surround speakers too close to the seats. Even if the viewer adds Atmos at a later stage I personally would still recommend keeping the Dipole side surrounds with the THX specifications for the remainder of the 7.1 With the exception of adding timbre matching monopoles voiced as close as possible to the lower 7.1 channels, wedge style for upper heights front and rear. That way you still get perfect 7.1 with perfect performance for surrounds and yet have the benefit of enjoying the new immersive formats for an 11.1.4.
Man loves tech, nice video very informative much more grown up too which is way better then all the sound effects. Loved your synopsis on the dipole speakers.
I appreciate that! Glad you enjoyed it. If there are any other questions you have, put them my way and I'll reply. Perhaps I might make a video if there is a need for it!
strange...i've heard dolby atmos is specifically meant to be used with monopole speakers and that's designed to support up to 128 separate channels. With monopole in small/medium rooms, i find the exit door effect too distract unless the side/rear speakers are a good 2-3 metres away
So informative for myself who does not know ANYTHING about surround sound. Thank you! I am trying to find the correct surround speakers for my small living room. I was looking at Harman Infinity Reference RS152’s for the sake of cost. Do you have any input on these speakers? TIA
@@propercushty I would like to stay under $250. Klipsch has the rs250s which are bipole. My issue is that I have a very small living room, on the left wall (if you were standing at the television looking at the couch) there is a fireplace. I am also concerned about that blocking the sound of I mount the speakers on the sides of the couch. But I am concerned about their performance mounting them on the back wall, which the couch will be up against. Thanks!
Thanks for presenting such an informative and easy to understand video. After watching, I purchased a pair of used but in great shape Polk Audio LS F/X dipole/bipole surround sound speakers. I've owned the matching Polk main speakers and center channel speaker for 25+ years, so I'm ridiculously overdue for a pair of surround sound speakers. Your video convinced me to get off my tail and make this happen. Thank you. Also, I subscribed.
@@propercushty now that modern theaters are switching to object-based audio rather than old fashioned channel based audio I'm not sure dipole or bipole speakers are even relevant anymore. You don't want to muddy up the sound field and cause the audio object to shift in position in 3D space. As much as it grieves me to say so I'm no longer employing the use of my Polk Audio LSiFX in my 7.2.6 system to gain a much more precise replication of the 3D sound image. Not sure what to do with them other than use them for spare parts or maybe sell them to someone not concerned about such matters on eBay.
@@powerguymark I agree, that's a great point - but most of the content out there is still only 5.1 (especially streamed stuff). I also think most people try to cram too many speakers into a room - so while you get more spatial effects, you also get audio smear because people lack the room treatments and space necessary to hear the direct audio. For me, dipole still makes more sense in a standard living space. If I had a proper theatre room (with enough room width) I'd definitely be going monopole for the sides and rears
@@propercushtyI guess we're just in a transitional state right now, you are correct there is a boatload of 5.1 still being streamed. Moving forward I'm ditching my bipole/dipoles which is sad because I paid a pretty penny for them.
I have the same speakers. I'm very disappointed with my sound system, but I can't entirely blame the speakers. I had to put them way too far back of optimal position because best position would put one speaker in the middle of a window. It's not worth making a bracket to hang it from since I'm moving soon anyway. I'll guess I'll try using them in the new house but might end up replacing them with monopoles eventually. Nobody is using bipoles/dipoles any more.
Is bipolar speakers better for front or rear surrounds? Next week am picking up the Klipsch rp-502s bipolar speakers and the Klipsch Reference rp-600m Bookshelf speakers, Looking for the best position to place both pairs
to be honest it really depends on the room on what is better, what is not. I would recommend getting some speakers that have a Monopole, Bipole, Dipole mode. So you flick a switch or change the wiring and you can have them any way you like. I've heard bipoles sound better on occasions, and I've also heard dipoles sound better. It also depends on the mix you are listening to. I think overall dipoles are more forgiving surrounds when it comes to most content - they generally sound acceptable or better. Whereas monopoles/bipoles can sound good but sometimes they can sound totally rubbish if your room doesn't allow. Just my observations there :) Good luck
🤔... Interesting subject! My room is 13 x 20 feet , listening area 5 feetaway from back wall. My setup is 7.2.4 , sometimes i feel that the side surround are too close to my listening position! Would u suggest the side surround speaker change to Dipole speaker will be better overal? Back surround speaker remain as bookshelf speaker.... Yes..?!!
Yes, for small-medium sized rooms I would definitely recommend dipoles if you want to better-hear the front soundstage. There is alot of disagreement on this topic, but I have always been pleased with the setup this way (even today with Dolby Atmos content). An alternative is you can get Bipole/Dipole speakers - basically there is a switch on the speaker which allows you to change the mode from Bipole to Dipole. Bipoles are typically more acceptable by today's standards, so you may even prefer bipole to dipole. Best thing to do is to experiment with it - I still prefer dipole myself because the surround speakers basically disappear into the background and the surround effects aren't so 'in your face' (which is what I am looking for, but maybe others are looking for something different)
@@propercushty ... The front RCL will be Klipsch KL650 ThX Ultra2 speaker , the side will use Klipsch KS525 Thx Ultra2 for surround ( not sure Ks525 is a Bipolar or Dipole type .. rear back surround is Klipsch 7800 Pro Thx Ultra2 speaker .. will u think this will work best for me ??
The one thing I feel my home theater lacks from really WOWing people and completing the sound is side speakers. I stumbled across this video and I'm wondering if dipole would be a great option for side channel
Thanks for the info, I didn't know a whole bunch of that stuff. I have some dipole klipsch 5025s Arriving today, along with the RP 280FA's, RP450C , and an SpL150 SUB. Looking forward to running some better wire, and getting it all dialed in and breaking it in
The Klipsch RP502’s are bipole speakers, not dipole. They are design to make a space seem larger than it is. They are designed to be side surround speakers, but can be used in the rear.
I prefer Bipole surround speakers in my livingroom myself, im looking at upgrading mine been looking at those SVS surrounds that can also turn 5.1 to 7.1 - bit pricey though
Yes this sounds like a good option to me. But alot depends on your room. My preference would be keep the surround speakers and instead of going for rear surrounds, go for front heights instead if you don't already have that. I think rear surrounds don't add much to the experience, and in some rooms it can make things sound worse
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah it's a tough one because big companies like Dolby seem to advise on monopole speakers (and some other reviewers I think too). And you might notice that most speaker companies don't produce matching dipoles, rather they produce matching monopoles for their line-ups. It's quite rare to find dipole options these days. However, if you research the true home cinema companies that produce THX-certified speakers for home theatre, they all produce dipoles or even tripoles (even today in the midst of Atmos they haven't discontinued multi-pole speakers) From my own experimentation I think dipoles are just the best if you want that authentic 'cinema sound' so to speak. There's another little technique I've tried and had some success with, where you get monopole speakers and angle them towards the ceiling or firing somewhere else away from directly to your ears. Similar results
Hi mate, that's an excellent question. Dolby don't say anything about bipole speakers, but they do explicitly say they recommend monopole speakers for Atmos. Bipole and dipole speakers are essentially the same thing, except dipole is wired out of phase. Dolby say for Atmos to work properly, you need the speakers aiming in a certain direction to ensure the surround effects are managed with precision. With bipole you can't do that because you have multiple cones facing different directions. The amplifier doesn't see that the speaker has multiple cones; it just sends the signal for that channel so we lose precision that way. However, I believe you should think about how often you will play Atmos content compared to how often you'll play traditional 5.1 and 7.1 content. Personally, I used Atmos less than 10% of the time, so I found dipoles work best for me, because most of the content I view today is still 5.1/7.1. That's the compromise you have to think about, and obviously each to their own! [also think about the size of your room and your specific setup, because again dipoles/bipoles may be preferable in certain rooms]
I am building a home theater room in the basement of my home. The room is 15' wide by 22' long. I was planning on doing a Dolby 9.1.2 set up but agree completely with what you are saying. My question is, should I consider a 7.1 and have two sets of the speakers you are suggesting?
Hi Larry. So you mean get two sets of dipoles? That could definitely be an option, yes. Although I think the greatest benefit from the dipoles will be when they're placed at the side positions. You could always have the dipoles occupy the side surround channels and then have some monopoles occupy the rears..but it all depends on how much room there is behind you. If you don't have much room, that's where bipoles, dipoles, and tripoles work better as they disperse the sound rather than aim it directly at the listener. The more speakers you have in a small space, the more 'exit-door effect' you might get too. It's all about balance. I'd also give Atmos a go with 2 monopole front heights and just keep the surrounds as dipoles. Dolby don't really recommend using dipoles, but every time I've listened to them the results don't sound convincing to me. You have to have the right listening space to do it (and the right content!) Hope this helps!
Ok, I understand what you are saying. So, my plan originally was to do a 9.2.4 system. The home theater has teared seating. The front seats are 15" lower than the rear seating which is 2 rows of 4 seats. I was planning to spend about $10,000 on the receiver and speakers. What brand speakers and receiver would you suggest I buy?
@@larryswift6548 Happy New Year Larry. Let's discuss your needs then. I am assuming that this system is just for the purpose of movies then...if so, then you might want to go for a brand dedicated to home theatre and look at their THX lines. One brand is XTZ 'Cinema Series'. www.xtzsound.eu/product/cinema-series Another option is to buy from M&K mksound.com/ Another option is to buy from Teufel, but I don't think they make huge THX systems anymore. They used to have the System 8 and System 10 line which were more suitable for theatres. I'd get in contact with them and enquire whether they can still be purchased. Just make sure that you buy appropriately sized speakers according to the dimensions of your room (anything over 3000 cubic feet you'll want something quite large). One thing I would recommend (if you want this for theatre purposes only) is that your front 3 speakers absolutely identical. Trust me it will sound alot better. In terms of receivers, I have tried them all over the years..and I always go back to Yamaha. Go for something from the 'Aventage' line of receivers. I think Yamaha have the most in terms of features, sound quality, value and experience in the field. I hope this helps!
@@larryswift6548 FYI, the dipole do not take two channels from your receiver. Still just one channel as if it were a monopole. Not sure if you know that, I may have misunderstood you.
I will not replace dipols. I have only decreased altitude. I have only 20m2. Side surrs are to close to me and to long distance between surrs and fronts. Have tried direct speakers and achieved hole in soun distribution. But more annoying was that I've heard exact place of surrs. Most of my movies (about 1500) has regular DD and DTS. For them, dipols are better
I agree if the surrounds are close to the MLP, dipoles/bipoles are better. If you can set up the surrounds in a 5.1 with perfect angles and enough distance (I'd say at least 1.5 - 2m) then direct speakers might work just fine but even then I'd probably go for dipoles or bipoles unless I can go 7.1 to "close" the soundfield. Direct speakers are certainly preferable in a perfect 3D Audio setup like atmos to really get the most out of the sourrond effect placement but it only works if you can set the speakers up properly - most of us don't have a dedicated space and have to make compromises regarding speaker placement. My situation is a classic: couch against the wall and dipoles work perfectly for that situation.
Thanks for explanation. I have monitor audio fx surround speakers and I prefer to switch them dipole...the only problem is ,due my living room, my speakers are on the wall 50 cm height like you said but over my sweet spot,not on the side.basically there is the sofa and they're up left and right...could be good?
Great video dude. Quick question though. Could put dipoles on the ceiling pointing down to get the same desired effect? The way you recommend isn't possible in my living room.
Hello there! Can't say I have heard of people putting dipoles on the ceiling and pointing downwards. I have not tried it so cannot really comment! To be honest my guess is it wouldn't work as intended because you're meant to be 90 degrees to the middle of the dipoles (you're meant to sit in the dead spot). That way, you hear the reflections around the room. If you are tight on space, then another option is buy a set of monopole speakers, put them near to the floor and point them up at the ceiling. That gives a fairly similar effect. I would recommend that the surround speakers are fairly big though (at least 5" driver) - because you want the effects to have a high peak power so they can match the fronts well. Otherwise the realism of the surround effect will be limited by the lack of dynamic range. Hope this makes sense!
@@propercushty thank your reply and advice. I could mount the dipoles as you have them however. My left wall as you look at my tv is actually a bay window. So the actual wall width to fix the speaker to is only about 15cm and the speaker width is 29cm. So as well the speaker overhanging. There's no wall on that side for the sound to bounce off. I'm a bit stuck atm as I really like the idea of dipoles and I like the sleekiness of them too. As opposed to the large boxy monitor style.
@@BoosiveFPV I see what you mean. It's a real compromise that's for sure. Another option is your could install behind the seating area above ear level. And another option is bipole speakers - perhaps that could work on the ceiling or behind the sofa if you have space. Some speakers have a bipole/dipole mode. So they have a switch on board and when you flick it you can go between dipole setting or bipole setting. That might be a good option for you if you want to experiment with positions and sound.
Question1: So, dipole speaker are great for movies, but what about music? Since few years ago, we have a lot of music in surround format, and I love it. I have just a room (mid size) for cinema and for music. Would you recommend dipole speakers for music as well? Question2: In case you have enough space in the room, the surround speakers (behind) should be monopole ? Or what would be your recommendation for a 7.1 system? Thanks!
if the music is encoded in Dolby 5.1 (old format) then perhaps dipoles would work quite well. But with modern Dolby Atmos being aimed at people with monopole speakers, I would imagine that monopoles may work better. However, if your room isn't acoustically treated and you sit close to the speakers, I'd imagine dipoles will still be preferable for many people. If you have a large room, then monopoles will probably work better - but you have to also consider how close the surround speakers will be to all seating positions in the room. For example, somebody sitting at the sides will probably be a bit closer to those monopole speakers - and I'm sure they won't appreciate the monopoles being too close.
Question. I have a pair of Fluance bipoles. Just ordered a set of Klipsch R-51M for side surrounds. And planning on using the bipoles for rears as my room is 20’ wide. 12 feet deep. So rears will be rather close but mounted about 24-30 inches above ear level. Is this best positioning? Thanks for video
Help me. At your video in 10:21 you say the dipoles shou be at the side of the listener. I've a 5.2 setup atmos enabled yamaha v583. If I put my dipoles exactly where you say, ceiling high, side of the listener, and activate the dipoles on the receiver as if they are atmos ceilling speakers.... would this work? My room is small and my ceilling is not very high (about 2.4m high). Can I get atmos effect using dipoles as if it were a 7.1 normal setup?
I've heard alot of good things about Def Tech actually! Look very cool indeed. However, in my room bipolars won't really work because I have no room behind the sofa. When I install surround speakers on the sides, I tend to go for dipoles myself as they suit my room better :) Have a great day mate!
@@propercushty really? my rooms the same - no room behind sofa, and my sub (SVS) has to be to the left of my sofa, I have a typical UK narrow livingroom, but my bipolars i have currently for a long time havent really suffered imo. tbh my bipolar speakers are the weakest part of my system i intend to upgrade fairly soon
@@Futura2500 Hello. Well the standard advice is that bipolars should go behind the listening position. Dipoles would go to your sides as you want to be in the acoustic null (because with dipoles you want to hear the sound reflections and not the direct sound itself). Hope this helps!
Hi! I have old dipole surround speakers and I wanted to set up a 5.2.4 and use atmos in ceiling speakers .I'm wondering where to put the 4 atmos speakers since I have a very limited space for my back channels. And also I'm considering 5.2.2 set up if not possible. Please help. Thanks!
Hello and what a great question! Firstly, just so you're aware Dolby don't recommend dipole surrounds in Atmos mode - but I recommend dipoles because to me the effects sound better in most surround sound formats (and smaller rooms). Secondly, if you have very limited space, one could say that Atmos 5.2.4 would not be recommended, because the more speakers you load into the listening area, the more exit-door effect you introduce across the listening positions. So, if you're not sat in the optimal listening position, you may become distracted by those additional rear channels. It would require some very careful tuning to sound right. However, having said that, putting in-ceiling speakers into your room is no easy task. If you're going to go through the effort of wiring them in-ceiling, I would install 4 Atmos channels, just in case you ever change your mind! To be honest, even in 2021, you'll probably find those 4 Atmos channels won't be doing much, because most audio is still encoded in 5.1 and 7.1. Which in-ceiling model are you considering by the way?
@@propercushty Thank you for your quick reply. I'm considering Definitve tech Di R8 for the front and DI 65 for the back since I have limited space for that.
@@edaubakaha1845 ok hold up...that's NOT a small room! :D You're total room volume is 3600 cubic feet (mine is 1600 cubic feet).. So basically you should definitely have the room for a proper 5.2.4 Atmos setup! Make sure all your speakers are big enough (and don't forget your subwoofers need to fill in the space adequately too!) Do you have your listening position fixed - if so, ensure you position the in-ceiling speakers in the right position
depends on size of your room and how you've set everything up. small bookshelves should work ok though - just experiment with how you point them towards the listening position
Totally agree mate, sound stage is so much better in a home theatre, i have been using my Wharfedale WH-2 for years and they are brilliant for the money. I actually use them for the rears also as I have a narrow rectangular lounge and they really work well, I am going to check with monopoles to see what difference it makes, cannot go Atmos as yet unfortunately.
yes mate if you have several monopole speakers at the back and the Atmos production is really well made - then one might argue that the monopole speakers are better as that's what is intended by Dolby. But when it comes to most surround sound content (which isn't atmos compatible) - then I'm gonna have to go dipole or bipole all the way in a small-medium room. Good luck with your setup lad
The only purpose for these are if you have two rows of seating you are trying to serve with the surround. If you don't, these are 100% useless. Worse, they will muddle your other speakers. Look where the speaker is aiming. Is anyone sitting there? If the answer is no, they're useless. If they're aimed at another speaker, they will interfere with that speaker's placement.
I have some old Polk F/X 300i's for my side surrounds. I have them in bipole mode however. All the research I've done says dipoles are dead. Hmm. Netflix supports Atmos as does Disney+. I have a 7.4.2 setup in my living room.
Yep, as was the case when I also researched the topic many times. After much experimentation with surrounds over the last 15 years or so, I came to the conclusion that I prefer dipoles (especially when space is limited). If they were truly a 'dead' technology, then THX wouldn't specify dipole surrounds as part of their standard - yet today, it remains to get THX certification for a home theatre, you need LCR matching fronts and dipole surrounds. That's what it seems like from my research anyway - most important thing is to test all this out yourself in your room and see which you like the best! Bipoles are fine but they're not recommended for Atmos by the way..monopoles are what Dolby recommends. Atmos support doesn't mean the content was originally mastered with Atmos in mind (makes a difference). Also, I'd rather watch a quality Blu Ray in 7.1 lossless audio than watch Netflix or Disney+ with compressed audio Dolby Digital +. The Atmos really doesn't add much over Netflix and Disney, especially when the audio sounds like it's trapped in a box lol.
@@propercushty I prefer lossless audio in general. Netflix isn't too bad with their original content. I was running a 7.1 setup for years, some of the Netflix Atmos stuff is miles above that. Not much, but some. Anything remaster tends to sound like well 5.1 at best. I'll play around with my 7.4.2 setup and the placement of the F/X 300's. They are old, but still useful. Trying to not spend much money lately.
@@jeffm2787 I agree trying not to spend too much is an excellent idea! These speaker companies will do anything in their power to make a new product out of decades-old technology! If I had a limited budget, my preference would be to ensure the front 3 speakers are of excellent quality (and a perfect match), whilst also ensuring I have two high quality subwoofers in the system that can truly extend to 20hz in-room with over 105dB peaks minimum. Many setups I have seen overlook this and instead focus on less important aspects like surround speakers or Atmos heights! In my opinion these should be the last thing one spends his/her money on!
@@hsuhsuanwen6549 Agreed, I have f/x 300's in bipole mode. All the research I've done says avoid dipole for Atmos which I use regularly. I'll probably replace them soon with monopole side speakers to match the rest of the system. The f/x 300's in bipole mode might work OK for the rears.
I can use only rear speakers in 5.1 schema, because my left wall is too far from my seat (so I can't use sides speakers on the walls for 7.1 schema). Do you recommend (as did my seller) to use two dipole speakers for rear channels? I'm waiting for Monitor Audio Bronze FX for that place. They can work in bipole mode also.
@@blessendor how far away is your left wall? I think dipoles will sound better and you should measure the distance, then input those measurements into your amplifier. Your amplifier will calculate when to time the effects just right. And make sure left surround and right surround volumes are equal volume too. Dipoles should really be set up on the side walls, so i would try and do that if i were you. If it doesn't work, put them in bipolar mode and put on the back walls :)
@@propercushty4m to the left wall, and 2.28m to the right, and 1.4m for rear wall places. BTW I can't make cable connection with my left wall (through flight of stairs).
Nice talk. For your information dipoles work perfectly well with Atmos. In fact they are the preferred choice for rooms under 18 feet, which is most UK rooms. Just ask Antony Grimani probably the most qualified person on the subject.
