6S is the new 4S | HYPE OR TRUTH 

I blinked so I missed a lap.

i think my eyeballs have latency...

Oh to be young again and have reactions that fast.

I'm depressed and going to switch to RC cars.

That boy can rip

I'm going to wait like 2 more months that way 8S will be the new 4S and I'll just serialize

Wow!!! That was amazing to watch. Now I know why I fly freestyle and not race. I couldn't even think as fast as you were reacting, brilliant piloting skillz. Thanks to all those involved.

I thank God for you guys' dedication to the hobby. Always experimenting, documenting and sharing so we all learn. God bless!

Thank you Joshua n your team. This has always been something that needed to be answered.

Watching this only confirms to me I need to sell everything or wait for senior DRL and MultiGP leagues. Nice job Evan!

This guy is the best I;ve found on utube for explaining the basics to newbies!!!

So clear and to the point Joshua. Great Job Cheers

Totally awesome flying - thanks for sharing

Thanks again guys for all you do. Evans DVR when he starts is like it's looking straight up.

man he's quick! Thanks for the link to his channel.

Great test! I'm happy with the results

100% understood why I could not go through 2 gates without crashing. I should definitely switch to 6s! Thank you.

Man that was awesome to watch. Some real nice flying man.....!!!! And now we know more about 6s Vs 4s

When different companies come together in a hobby (considering technically they are competition) to collaborate and answer questions like this. I’m lost for words. I haven’t seen this happen elsewhere. Well impressed.

Love ur work J.B keep it up!

Makes sense to me, great information. And pretty amazing flying too. Thanks for sharing,

Great video for me being new and not familiar with different kv motors in comparison to lipo batteries. If now I could only dream of being so good at flying. Awesome.

Love your stuff! Great Video!

Very nice video !!

great job and flying .....

We were doing low kv, high voltage 10+ years ago in our planes, no big discovery. They are doing it in electric cars now as well, (real cars)

Great video thank you - just what I was looking for. I'm guessing there may be other benefits as well to 6S such as less stress on the lipo? It would be interesting to see where the threshold is for efficiency (e.g. testing 7 or 8 cell with even lower kv motors).

Awesome video and awesome to bring my favorite racer in. People may have concerns about true watt hour capacity comparison but they that they're missing is is going to 6s as described in your video Does increase possible max laps and more importantly you gain so much more subjective consistency (in terms of feel) on 6s because of lack of noticeable sag, and so you end up with an increased potential for solid racing performance.

That was wickedly fast!!! Nice observations

Great Camera. Very Clear. okay back to the viedo

Very interesting video, would love to see more comparisons of 4S high KV vs 6S low KV.

THATS ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC FASTEST I'VE EVER SEEN MAN ALIVE THATS QUICK AMAZING

cool video Josh. Damn the kid is fast

That is freakish! Amazing skills!

Excellent use of an old filament spool!

Joshua, love the video been waiting for this for a while! Quick question: for a capacitor on the battery leads of a 4-in-1 esc on a 6s low kv quad, is 35V enough or should it be 50? I’m assuming 1000uF is enough?

How about measuring the battery packs temperature after flight. This might giva a indication on the internal resistance and would give some hints on the comparability.

This was fun to watch and very interesting results. The content on this channel is way more exciting since you quit your job :)

I’ve just got in to FPV using an old HF transmitter and a USB cable to practice on a sim. Having trouble going around a simple course and here he is at speeds I can’t even see haha

Does Evan dream in FPV? SO amazing.

Wow, I can’t even imagine ever flying that accurately at that speed, impressive!! @Joshua, we’re you able to watch him flying through your googles? I’m considering the DJI FPV goggles and wondered if I could spectate analog pilots if I attach the analog module?

Awesome video josh

Very interesting. Don't think I'll be running out to get 6s and low kv motors just yet

If I’m not mistaken, Catalyst got the low kv, high voltage idea from Clint at Diablo Hobbies (my dawg), that guy tries everything! I’ve been running 6s on 1600 kv for freestyle for a little over a month now, all punch, no sag, less throttle management, gets you from point A to point B real quick! If you’re a pilot in the NW, support Diablo Hobbies!

Interesting test....Does this mean we will see a new overhaul on the max cells that PDB, FC, ESC, Motors and even VTX and Camera with OSD have to be able to support 6s? Not to mention chargers, parallel boards and the capacitors we are using now. 35v capacitors should be sufficient right or do we need bigger ones as well just to be safe.

Correct me if I’m wrong but after just now hearing about it, I’m guessing the benefit here is that the motors can supply more torque or supply torque easier and so this helps the quad go between different speeds faster. Same rpm at the end but there’s higher theoretical max torque with this setup

The benefit of running 6s on lower kv motors is really simple. It reduces the current needed to achieve the same wattage by increasing the voltage. Lower current equates to less heat loss in the motors, ESCs and wires. This in turn gives you better efficiency. It's the same reason electric vehicles run at 400 volt, when it would be much safer if the battery groups were connected in parallel to give massive current and 12v. You would get the same wattage, but the wires and motor windings would have to be massive, and the heat loss would be insane.

There is actually a gentleman named Allen in Conroe TX whom I visit and somewhat help tune 6 s quad building for catalyst machine works. Really awesome experience . He tunes 5 to 6 quads at a time. Awesome platforms. 6s is by far the best results.. period

That slalom technique is really insane! He's going more sideways than forwards. That kid is pretty bloody amazing.

@12:20 Bardwell said it himself what I was thinking the whole video 🤣 if my goggles are on, pls no speaky 😂🤣😂

nice work

What’s the best RTF 6s Kit that’s setup for DJI FPV and Crossfire?

Great video, thanks for that. I chose the Brotherhobby R3 1660kv @ 6S with the R3 2550kv @ 4S for comparison and 1000mAh 65C 6S Turnigy Graphene Lipo with 1550mAh 75C 4S Tattu Lipo. The first setup is done. The 2nd comes in the middle of the month. I'm curious how it goes out with me. Videos of my experiences are on my channel.

First off amazing flying... on another note the 6s 1250 mah would be more like a 4s 1800 mah. Wonder if those two would compare more closely.

It's amazing, I want to build a racing drone? I appreciate your advice, I'm a newbie. Thank you

Fantastic!

To make it clear: To compare both packs we need to have a look at the power/watt (P) and not the voltage (U) and the current (I) seperately! The equation is the following: ~ P = U * I So lets have a look at the actually energy (Wh) contained in both of the packs as used in the Video: ~ For the used 4s pack that would make 4 * 3.8V * 1.550Ah = 23.56Wh. ~ For the used 6s pack that would make 6 * 3.8V * 1.250Ah = 28.5Wh. That means that in the used 6s pack is actually more energy contained therfore it is no wonder you can go further with the 6s pack. It is also not quite right, that a 6s pack would need to have a lower C-Rating than a 4s pack, as some people say here! The C-Rate is the factor you need to multiply the capacety (Ah) of a pack in order to get the Amps you can draw from them. But a 6s pack with the same energy contained as a 4s pack needs to have a lower capacety ( less Ah) than a 4s pack. So lets do the math for a 4s and a 6s that both contain the same energy of lets say 25Wh: ~ For the 4s pack that would make a capacety of about 25Wh / (6 * 3.8V) = 1.655Ah. ~ For the 6s pack that would make a capacety of abotb 25Wh / (4 * 3.8V) = 1.096Ah. Now we have a 4s and a 6s pack that contain the same energy. So lets think about two quads that deliver the same amount power of 900W (i just made this number up) next but one runns on our 4s pack and the other one on our 6s pack, both containing the same energy. Lets calculate the current drawn by the quads in order to calculate the C-Rate the packs would need to have: ~ The 4s pack would need to deliver about 900W / (4 * 3.8V) = 59.21A to output 900W. Therfore it would need to have a C-Rate of about 59.21A / 1.655Ah = 36C to deliver the 59.21A and 900W. ~ The 6s pack would need to deliver about 900W / (6 * 3.8V) = 39.47A to also output 900W. Therfore it would need to have a C-Rate of about 39.47A / 1.096Ah = 36C to deliver the 39.47A and 900W. Ther you have it! THE C-RATE OF BOT PACKS (&S AND 4S) CONTAINING THE SAME ENERGY ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE THE SAME (36C in this example) TO OUTPUT THE SAME POWER !!! However we have to remember, taht you can switch higher voltage more efficient than larger currents. But this effect is rather small, as we only use a very few watts in heat in our cable, connectors and escs compared to the power that is put out by the motors. Therfore this effects a quad not so much, but is a big thing on electric cars and so on, as the powerconsumption and therfore the current is much much larger than in our small racing-quadas. @Joshua Bardwell Please confirm taht, the people belive in what you are saying, for good or for worth. Like 95% of the time for good :D

Think I'm going to be sick. That is some super human skill right there

Is the xrotor Stack also on the 6s quad? It’s only rated for 5s, but some run it at 6

So this is the famous heads up fpv. I saw him race with Bms

Ok that pilot in the first shot is insane !

I would have loved to see what kind of amperage he was pulling on 6s. He was averaging 40-60amps with the 2522kv 4s set up. It must be considerably lower with the 6s if hes getting 2-3 laps more.

You should angle your LapRF at a 45 Degree Angle pointing to the top corner. I not angling you should be placing it in the middle of the gate.

Wow that's fast!!

Just cause I haven't done the research yet, battery cost aside, is a 6s build with low kv motors gonna be about the same cost as a comparable 4s build?

Great vid I still gotta try 5S lol

Can you run a (ex 2700KV) motor on 6s and just adjust your throttle down to be able to fly longer without burning motors.

great review, but you overlooked one detail about 6S: Pulse 1050 is regular and 1250 is graphene model, that's why he was getting sag on 1050 and no sag on 1250

One question... did he use the same props? I would assume that lower kv motor would have more torque and thus be able to use "heavier" props to get more speed without big impact on battery life...

Guys, where can I read up on overcharging for racing? I can't find anything about it

Wow loved that video. Boy that guy can fly. Defo a lot more embarrassed buy my lack of skills now. 😂

Hey Bardwell love your videos. I'm starting to collect gear and info for my first build and really appreciate your content. I noticed your link for the floss seems to be hijacked. I get redirected on my phone and tablet to a random fake contest. All the other links I've tried seem fine but I'll go through them just to be sure.

Once, I made a similar test between 4s and 6s but, I took a 4s with about the same weight like the 6s. Therefore the 4s has a bigger capacity, which also provides more peak current.(4s=2300mAh/6S=1500mAh)So, my Quad had on both test flights the same weight. I did not feel any differences between my 6s/1550KV and 4s/2300KV. The power on my OSD was pretty much the same on both flights, even the flying time. We just have to do the math. It´s just physics. Power is power as long as you provide the same efficiency. Cheers and happy flying !

Reading this, reminds me of work when I try and dig into the numbers with out seeing the big picture. Seems like it comes down to personal preference... what will determine what’s better over the other. It’s clear in this case it was 2 min time trial and fastest lap. If we get into oh he crashed and bent a prop and it didn’t have the same thrust... we can debate all day. Just my .02 we are over thinking it.

you could have matched the current sensors' calibration for the two quads and counted the laps withing a given Wh to see which one is more efficient (flies longer). also you can match weights perfectly using some extra payload on the lighter one.

Is the track layout public available?

so what you are saying is that you will finally release a 6s capable JB lipo balance board. perfect! ☺️

This boy is not human I got a double concussion just watching them

Let's just hope the price drops on 6S

what about the same KV, but a mild prop?

I just wanna say Evan a beast. And I'm go get me one dem bracelets cause if MLB players wear em they must work.

Higher voltage lower kv has been used in RC for years in Planes, boats, cars. It has just taken the quad community time to catch-up and produce lower kv motors. Some of us have been using similar setups for some time.

I've found what it really comes down to is the battery weight or MAH. If you compared an equal weight 4s and 6s battery im predicting the results would differ less and you would have near equal endurance and speed. I run 4s and 6s and i do find 6s to be faster but i run a battery that is 25g heavier.

what if you just kept the same KV and under propped?

Man he can whip that thing around a track.

Well that was fun to watch. I really don't care about the scientific merit of the results, nor do I care much about racing as anyone who's watched my videos knows, but I respect the time and concentration that must go into flying like that! I fly 6s for freestyle every day, i rarely use 4s anymore, 5 or 6s almost exclusively. 6s gives a very different flying experience, motors run smoother, there's a torque advantage. I swear everything runs better on higher voltage, just don't try to draw too many amps with high kv motors.

You need to do some batteries testing to find him a light 6s lipo :-) Wouls have been nice to see the AMPs as well :-)

I like to call that floggin the dog...thats what the kwad sounds like around that course!!!

I guess unless you’re racing professionally using 6s with low kv is a bit overkill. His runcam osd battery gage is hooked up to the current sensor

6s harder to tune with low kv motors?

Are there any information about rc rates, super rates, expo and max.deg/s. please?! This will help me a lot to tune my quad;)

I know I’m years behind but I fly differently to pretty much everyone on the planet these days 3D LOS at night 🤘🏻all my old 4s packs are pretty much dead and I am still flogging them 🤣 how would a 6s setup go with rapid change of motor direction? I’m still runnings Lumenier 2350kv, I tried tmotors years ago and they wouldn’t change direction, so I have no idea what type of motor to use for 6s, I was looking at the Xing Camo pink1700kv a while back they looked awesome but can’t find them anywhere now, I want to change my setup on 3 Warp quads the same and I’m going to setup one as a basher so I can give people a go at 3D.

This looks like something I want to do but I'm blocked; I need a 6s JB parallel charger

In your battery testing are you looking at the difference in the amount of power that a 4s battery can deliver over say two minutes compared to a 6s of a similar weight?

Incredible flying ... in this case it doesn’t matter if on 4s or 6s

Holy cow that so fast make me think how it that possible to fly so fast.

Why when we have these discussions battery density, total watt hours, and weight aren't really discussed?

The 6s (27.75Wh) had more watt-hours than the 4s (22.94Wh) wouldn't that also affect how the pack performs overall? An 1850mah 4s would have been more comparable in terms of capacity although it may have more overall weight than the 6s.

Technically you should lower powerlosses in the battery as well as throughout the quad but I believe the biggest advantage would be in the battery as most of the energy is lost there. We could as well go to 12S but then we would probably reach limitations of cheap electronics

Interesting!