7 Arguments for and Against the NHL Expanding Beyond 32 Teams 

The year is 2075 and there is currently 288 teams in the NHL. They've made hockey quite popular in Arizona and there are now 37 teams just within the Phoenix area. Unfortunately Quebec is still waiting for a team

THG being interrupted by a FanDuel ad while talking about gambling being all over sports is poetic

Con: THG has enough to try and do videos on full slate nights already?

Tbh, if we're worrying about watering down the level of talent in the league, the cost for kids to play hockey should be the biggest concern.

Im far more concerned with the playoffs expanding than if the nhl adds more teams.

Another advantage of expansion is you can reach new talent pools. Auston Mathews would not be a hockey player if the Coyotes weren’t in Phoenix. Expansion allows development of new hockey programs in locations that don’t have them now.

You're spot-on about Vegas. Hockey is pretty much the only reason I go to the strip. Once in a blue moon I'll go to a show there, but the only time I recall going to the strip over the last two years (other than hockey) was for a Thanksgiving Day buffet at Caesar's Palace (and, no, it wasn't worth it, for either the hassle or the price). The local support is there, but Vegas is always going to have the advantage of being a warm weather tourist city. Visiting fans will go there to escape a cold weather winter and see their team play. Remember, Las Vegas had been the largest US market without any of the big four team sports (baseball, football, basketball, or ice hockey). It did boast the only successful original XFL team, and boxing has been around a long time. The NHL snatched the market first, and hooked the city on hockey. I personally believe within ten years, the city will have gone from zero to four when it comes to having the top level team sports (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL).

Thanks for repping Cleveland :)

I think the quality issue is more of a problem because of what NHL expansion does to other leagues. There has been 84 Swedish players appearing in the NHL so far this year. Players who earlier would have become star SHL players now become third or fourth liners in the NHL instead. If all talented Swedes go to the NHL the quality of the SHL goes down and there is a risk the Swedish interest in hockey goes down with it. This might be a problem for the NHL down the line too as the decreasing interest leads to a smaller swedish talent pool. The return of the best on best national teams is a way to counter this though, and I’m sure this type of reasoning are part of why the NHL seem to see those events more positively now than they used to.

I could swear you are saying 3:09 "New chances for French players..." :)

This decade might go in history as the golden era for professional sports. Everything seems to be coming together. Global visibility, record contracts and rights, the gaming industry in high gears ,and the memorablia business that keeps re-inventing itself. If one is looking at the next ten years, any opportunity for expansion should be considered within the next 3 to 5 years.

Playoffs: Stay at 16 Western Conference: Salt Lake & Houston Eastern Conference: Atlanta & Quebec City

The expansion fee is No. 1 rationale for expansion.

Rather than expanding beyond 32 teams, I would much rather see them developing 32 solid, passionate fanbases located in strategically smart locations across NA. I think it would be much better to see 32 arenas selling out than to see 36 teams with like six of them floundering on the boundary of relevancy. I don't know how realistic this is, since you're always going to have teams who aren't doing well, but I think that should be their long term plan. But having said that, I'm sure if they do expand, they do so after doing much more number crunching and risk-benefit analysis than I'm willing to, so I'll give the league the benefit of the doubt if they do expand further.

I think the NBA play in system or a system with bye's is most likely. But I wouldn't mind a Coyotes relocation instead either.

36 teams and sticking to the 16 team playoffs makes sense

As long as there is money to be made and markets willing to pay the expansion fees, there’ll be expansion.

One thing we know for sure. The NHL will expand to the point where it negatively impacts the league. Maybe mortally.

Once any league hits 33, it's only a matter of time until it's 40

Add Salt Lake City to the Pacific, Houston to the Central, Quebec to the Atlantic, and Atlanta to the Metro. Of course this is assuming Arizona doesn't move...

Harder to win a cup is a pro, not a con. It should be hard.

The NHL just wants to make sure I never finish my rink tour. I’m at 24 for current teams, plus 4 arenas no longer in use.

Banger video after Banger Video. Thank you Shannon! 🤘🏻

> went from 21 teams to 30, didn't water down the product Yes, but it coincided with the influx of Russian and Czech players.

I don't think they should expand until at least 2030, move teams like Arizona if they can't get an arena sure but expansion the league doesn't need it

Pro #1 Money Cons #1 All Null and Void Money is being made

I agree that the playoffs should not be expanded. It should be hard to make the playoffs. The 82 games in the regular season really matters when there are few playoff spots to fight for.

Just want to see 8 Canadian teams for the reasons you’ve outlined. It would make for a perfect Hockey Night.

The gambling advertising has less to do with Vegas entering the major North American leagues and more to do with the legalization of sports betting across the USA. End of the day, the leagues have to show consistent growth monetarily, and one way to open up new markets is to welcome gambling. Here in California, it’s still not legal outside of Native American reservations, but it’s coming and I’m sure the crypto arena will soon be the FanDuel Center

My fear is that the owners and the players union will love their pros and not care about the cons for a second.

I'm guessing that before my time on this planet is up, we'll have 40 teams in the league - and the playoffs will have an extra round.

The NHL is a corporation and like any corporation its prime objective is to maximize profits. There are many cities where the league could expand to and they could always add a second team to Toronto or Montreal so there's no shortage of prospective sites. The league will expand and it's really just a question of how much and how fast.

I wouldn’t blame you for tapping out

Since it is already getting difficult to win the Cup based upon the current number of teams, I can see expanding making it even more difficult for fan bases to keep interest. One solution would be to make some other type of rivalry trophy to win for the teams, like in college football. An example would be a Battle of Pennsylvania trophy handed out at the end of the last game of the season between Pit and Philly. Then expand that to other rivalries. Yes, you might need to make up some 'rivalries' just to have every team be able to play for a trophy. (I would make them far prettier than the Penn State vs Michigan State Land Grant Trophy.) Some of these could be a three team horse race (NYC Metro teams or the California teams), similar to the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy between Air Force, Army, and Navy. This would be great consolation prizes for bragging rights because you can gloat when your team beats the bad guys. Just a thought.

My question is about cost of attendance: what does expansion do, if anything, to keep fandom from gentrifying and pricing out good and committed fans?

also usually. expansion means teams to crush for a bit. but with they way they do the expansion draft. teams are good pretty quickly

16 teams in the playoffs is a perfect amount, and I feel like the idea of changing the playoff formula is the only real "con" on the list that matters. Even if talent was a problem, that talent pool will grow exponentially over time with teams in new or former markets inspiring more youth to join youth and high school programs, maybe even make their way to the USHL. On the difficulty to win a Cup? Damn right it should be difficult. 16 of 21 teams making the second season is prime opportunity for a mediocre team to get hot at just the right time. 16 of 32 ups the ante, and 16 of 36 makes it harder still. If someone is upset their team didn't make it because a new team did instead, well, maybe the front office of your team should do a better job at building a roster, eh? In many ways, I think the NHL is in a much better position to expand now than they were in the 90s, but their hasty and haphazard expansion of that era has resulted in them learning some incredibly valuable lessons since they approved the ownership transfer of the Thrashers in 2004. You had a ton of teams struggle to work their way towards being good, as if they started out with both hands tied behind their backs and a roster full of plugs. SJS? Plugs. OTT? Plugs. Thrashers? Full of plugs. CBJ still hasn't really seen any success, and they're on what, year 23? Vegas and Seattle have seen near instant success with the new expansion draft rules. A market like Atlanta, Salt Lake, or others could *thrive* with success like that, especially with getting more locals involved in the sport.

Another option is an inter-conference draft. West expansion teams pick from Western Conference (except Seattle) East expansion teams pick from the Eastern Conference

The "watering down the league" argument goes back expansion through the 70's.

No matter how many more teams get added in the future, I agree that the playoff format should stay as it is. Even with more than the current 32 teams, it should ensure that the best teams are the ones who get to the playoffs. Sixteen teams is the ideal amount for four playoff rounds.

You should do a video on great AHLer’s who never got their break in the nhl

Speaking of expansion creating more good players, I'd love to see a video talking about some of the guys you're talking about who might not have made a career of it otherwise

If there are 36 teams, there might be a trade where a team like Edmonton this season, is asked for their 2024 and 2025 first round picks because their first round picks are going to more more like 2nd round picks.

I think more teams give more older free agents a team to play for. Like Phil Kessel for example.

I say maybe a play-in for the playoffs so you only expand the wildcard qualification to a mini series (best of 3?) with 2 extra teams per side and then its an extra benefit for not getting the wild card

I wonder if the league would ever consider draft picks being allowed in the expansion draft? They would have to limit the amount for each expansion draft, but some teams may prefer to lose a pick over a losing player.

If there were 36 teams - could the league get rid of divisions and conferences? The season would be 70 games, teams playing each other home and away (2x35 games), with extended playoffs the season would be still long enough. And also the seeding would not be limited by div/conf format but only by standings table. we could get some unexpected (and every year different) match-ups that are impossible right now. I would surely like it!

I expanded to 40 teams using franchise hockey manager and the most consisten issue was the playoffs not having enough teams, as well as 82 games not being enough for a balanced schedule.

ATL has TWO interested groups and we will hopefully get our team back in 2027

Potential 36 team league, likely to have 3 divisions in each conference, 6 teams per division, line up where it makes sense to have teams. You got your expansion locations.

All good points.

No. The talent pool is diluted enough. Most teams cant even field four competitive lines. A handful of hockey teams arent even financially sustainable. One plays in a college stadium ffs. Besides, not even the NFL has more than 32 teams.

When the NHL first expanded in 1967-68, none other than Maurice Richard said that the NHL became too watered down at that time.

Expansion should not occur. There is not enough talent for 34 more teams. I don't like to see teams give up players to a new team. It will be harder to play each team twice. I think 32 teams is just right.

I am indeed going to roll out the talent dilution argument. Just because it's Chicago and SJ that are the ones rolling out AHL-caliber teams instead of Vegas and Seattle doesn't dissuade from the point that we don't even have 32 teams playing to an appropriate level, already rushing to 36 would be even more of a joke.

To my recollection the gambeling ads started simultaneously with golden knights expansion coincidence I think not

Pretty tricky. I dont mind it but youll see even more teams threatening relocation when the new teams succeed. And theyll also need a cup for the east and a cup for the west.

Im all in for more Canadian teams

The Vegas casinos used to consider the fall and winter seasons as quiet with a significant decrease in revenues. The local minds got to work and have landed two professional franchises within a five year time frame with state of the art facilities. I would be curious to know the number of visitors that would have never been to Vegas if not to watch their team while enjoying the city's attraction. The Vegas "Midas" touch.

Houston Milwaukee are no brainers for new franchises. the other two will be interesting.maybe Utah and perhaps one Canadian city

You killed me witht the divorce joke at the end lol

I think that in 2-3 years, 1-2 teams is inevitable for expansion, as the league is already starting to peak in talent saturation, and in 2-3 years from now, it’s going to be crucial to spread it back out a bit. Plus it adds a ton more jobs, both for players and for rink staff, and as long as the NHL is slow and methodical, it won’t pose too much of an issue. Don’t forget, 30 teams for many years saw 2 divisions of 8, and 2 of 7. 2 with 9 and 2 with 8 is hardly different from what we’ve already experienced.

I hope they do expand

Wait until the day. Stanley cup becomes a tournament between best of europe, best of north america , and best of asia. With the host city like the memorial cup.

Well my guess is the yotes move to Utah, then the 4 teams being added will be Arizona, Atlanta, Houston, and Quebec City

My expansion picks: Quebec City, Hamilton, Houston, Atlanta.

For one thing the problem is it’s harder for teams to win the Stanley Cup. The other problem would be. It’s over saturated and the talent is not as good when it’s stretched out , also the fact that it’s hard to have a dynasty and it’s like that

With 36 teams you have 20 to enter in a playoffs but expect then best of 5 game series and and then same best of 7 for both conference finals and the Stanley cup final round, all the same as now. That sends more teams into shorter first rounds but makes it still a very hard run for the cup without extending the time.

Just move the Coyotes to Utah and be done please..

Shannon any chance of doing video debating whether the league should be 4 divisions of 9 or 6 divisions of 6 ? when it goes to 36 teams. Like to have your opinion on this subject PLEASE!!!

As a native Las Vegas resident (born and bred) I totally agree with your assessment Shannon . I HATE the strip . Never worked in a casino my entire 59 years on earth . Found other gainful employment. When the Golden Knights were born-they saved this city from complete collapse because of October 1. I can tell you that as a now retired police officer, that was the single worst shift of my 22 year career. Every game I’ve ever been to, I always see someone I know, friends , former colleagues, etc. There is a smattering of tourists who come to the games but it’s definitely locals who do grace the strip to see our VGK play. Never going to an NFL game despite the raiders being here . NFL blows

What I love about the current schedule is that every team plays every other team at least twice (home/away). It’s great. Its one of the things I love about the NHL vs the NFL where teams come no where near to playing every team in the league. **Sidenote: the NHL schedule would only be better if we made it an 84 game season, so teams also played in conference teams 3x and divisional teams 4x. With that said, I’m a little nervous that we would lose the play every team in the league twice if we expand. It’s still possible, but nervous that the NHL would prioritize divisional games. Sigh.

if they do expand at the major league level, the minor league affiliates will also need to be expanded to supply players. Would there also be additional markets for those leagues and teams as well?

Utah and Québec! Let's do it.

Why was there only one game played yesterday? Good Friday?

16 team playoff, and 20 team draft tournament. Winners pick first, so no big reward for tanking because you need to play well in the Draft tournament.

Just curious what your take is on Cleveland? Im from Cleveland and have my thoughts as to why we will not get an NHL team. Just want to know if im thinking the same.

I think expanding the playoffs could be a good thing because I think it would give seeding a bit more meaning again. Sure, right now I'd still rather have the top seed than the last wild card spot, because it will probably give me a slightly easier road to the finals, but let's be honest, it doesn't mean nearly as much as it did before the salary cap, especially because the trade deadline or some LTIR shenanigans can really improve a team late in the season or right at the start of the playoffs. But if you expand the playoffs maybe with a wild card round, while the higher seeds get a first round bye like in the NFL, seeding could actually mean a lot more.

8:18 Why would the NHL bring a team to Cleveland when Columbus is close by? It's not New York and LA!

I agree that 32 teams is perfect. If they expand beyond, I feel like you have to expand the playoffs, and then we’ll prob be getting into play-in rounds or byes which I don’t think I’d be crazy about. Expansion is fun during the reveals, draft, first games, but then they’re just another team. Though I’d imagine the excitement is through the roof for the city actually getting the team. I’d be stoked if Wisconsin got a team and I could drive across the border to see a Chicago-Milwaukee rivalry game! I know that’s a pipe dream, though.

Are there going to be more arena issues besides Arizona coming up that will have to be addressed before expansion? Some of those arenas are coming up on 30 years old. Also, I think teams have learned from their mistakes with the Vegas expansion draft.

I am down to relocate the Hockey team from the city of Toronto, to Utah or Texas, but i am not in favor of expanding beyond 32

also about scheduling. I think right now, teams play a good amount of games vs eachother. with ay 36 teams its now, ok do we increase the number of games a season to burn out players? Or do we cut down the amount of games play against say division rivals for example?

Here's my take. I'm a Scot, so I am well used to the system I'm suggesting. The current system is unworkable because of it's size. Cut the current league down to 24 teams and call it the Stanley Division or Premier Division, where the top 16 qualify for the playoffs and the bottom two are relegated to a minor Division. They can freely expand and play for their own cups (Campbell?) and the top two in that Division go back up to the Premier. It works with football where I come from.

which markets in U.S. are candidates for expansion? Houston? Atlanta? Salt Lake City? Hartford? Cleveland? Milwaukee? Portland? other?

At 32, the NHL is tied for the most teams of the major NA leagues (NBA, NFL, MLB, MLS). Expanding faster than the larger leagues would be aggressive, and I'm here for it.

I think the Rangers missed that "it used to be easier to win the cup" memo 😂

Probably not a very popular playoff setup.. but two ideas with 36 teams. #1: 4 divisions of 9 teams each. The top 3 in each division automatically move on to the “standard” 4 round playoffs. Each division has a wildcard round where 4/5 play each other in an x games series. 1vsWC and 2vs3 in each division. Then division round, conference round, and Stanley cup. Pros: Intense rivalries will be built, especially in divisions. Less travel early in the playoffs. Cons: High chance of “rematch rounds” occurring every season, but is this really a con? An extra round to squeeze in. High chance of some good teams missing while lesser teams make it in weak divisions. #2: 6 divisions of 6 teams. Top 2 from each division qualify. The final 2 spots go to WC in each conference. Pros: More standard playoff format. No extra round needed. Higher quality of playoff teams. Cons: Less teams will make the playoffs. Less rivalries?

would be really funny to announce 4 more teams and then just reveal it’s the return of the Whalers Nordiques Thrashers and Barons

Will expansion lengthen the season? You have to play every team at least once per year

As a qmjhl fan 16 in 16 out is perfect q has 16 out of 18 make it and missing playoffs is considered being a terrible team

What do you think of the NHL going to the NBA play-in model? What about giving the division champions a bye to the third round (after play-in and first round)?

I would like to see another Canadian team

There aren't that many rebuilds. There should be more. The cap makes it largely impossible. The bottom end of the cap needs to be lower.

If they expand it can only be by 2 and then see how things are going from there. Some want 4 team expansion which i think its crazy and really pushing the talent pool level down. My preference is one in the west Houston or SLC and in the east Quebec. Coyotes relocation could make the west expansion more clearly.

NHL needs to expand to grow. its not like the NFL where every city has millions of NFL fans. NHL wont ever be that level. But expanding into these locations like Salt Lake or Houston can EASILY grow the sport even more and get it included in the "Big Sports" like NFL or NBA

Any days where they have every team playing like baseball should be Saturdays or Sundays after football is over before baseball starts

With more teams comes the fact that you may never see your team win a cup in your life time.

Typically, if the nhl management is for it, then it isn't in the best interest of the fans. Fanatics, board ads, gambling ad takeover......etc

I think expansion will start prior to 2030