I am paying attention , believe you / me !! That 700 R 4 that I contacted you about a week ago should have " NEVER FAILED " at 61,000 + miles with methodical services ! Anyway , your videos are excellent , with videos like this there is no reason why a skilled mechanic can not rebuild his own transmission !!! I have 45 + years in rebuilding " MACK TRUCKS " from the frame up after a couple million hard miles !! The same tight spec's apply to all the components on the engines / trans / rears / on them , but they are expected to go 500,000 miles without incident , ( with proper maintenance ) ! Wish I had tackled these light duty trans as well , back in the early days , but I was focused on the HEAVY TRUCK PRODUCTS at the time ! WOULD OF MADE MY LIFE EASIER TODAY !!! KEEP UP THE GREAT VIDEOS , AND " YES " YOU CAN TEACH A " OLD DOG " NEW TRICKS !!!! CONFUCIUS SAY, ANYTHING - IS - POSSIBLE - WITH - A - WILLING HEART !!!! THANKS PAUL
Great video, just setup my input drum 3-4 came out .025 dry factory backing and apply 7 .080 (.0815) fibers and 6 .076 (0.0785) steels. And had to use 7 ring with that thanks..
Thank you, @lysawy82. That clearance is perfect...will likely open up to .028-.030 when working which is fine...Reinstall the load release springs to prevent drag when in 1st and 2nd gear, just to be on the safe side...
Excellent info as always. Speaking of the load springs, you are correct, highly discussed and argued between a lot of builders. But the argument doesn’t stop there. The TransGo 700 JR kit. As an information sheet that states. ALL 4L60E’s. Need the load springs installed. The ATSG manual actually states that. They recommend leaving them out. So, the argument is on both sides there as well. lol I am like you. Just depends on clearance, and what I am Building. Experience is a great education. .
Thanks again, Larry! Appreciate the kind words...Yep, I will prob do more videos on those load release springs as I feel like I just scratched the surface, lol.
Great Video....just makes me want to drop my rebuilt transmission w/ 6 friction 3-4 pack and install the 9 friction pack I purchased ( along with all the other goodies I have in my shed)...but you know the story if it ain't broke...don't fix it. Running my 700R4 transmission at 160 degrees F...it's never going to die now.
Thanks @LarsonFamilyFarm-LLC! Yes, if it's working fine, no need to mess with it...Keep your nine-clutch stack for a different build or if you have to go back through yours again. 160 degrees is great!
Personally, I would much rather have the 7 friction setup with Koleen steels and Borg Warner High Energy clutches versus the Alto 9 clutch setup. The thicker clutches and steels will dissipate the heat better than those much thinner Alto clutches and steels will. Just my opinion. That said no 3-4 clutch setup will last very long in a truck where the owner thinks they can tow or haul heavy loads in 4th.
Thanks, for watching rbarger - all great points...I think the 4L65E is a great all around clutch stack and, agree - the thicker steels def help with heat dissipation. And you're correct - the 700R4/4L60E family is simply not designed to tow/haul, owing to the design weaknesses inherent in the 3-4 clutch pack. If folks use their 1/2 ton trucks to tow frequently, even if loads are within the 5000 lb limit, I'd def keep the vehicle in D3.
Ideally, you'd run eight factory-spec .106 Lindered steels and nine .085 HE or Alto Red Eagle frictions in the drum like the Sonnax Smartech Drum allows for but I don't know of a way to do that with a factory drum. Though I may experiment if I have time and, if successful, do a follow up video showing how to pull it off.
You can use either one of the combos I demonstrate or others...The only product I'm leery of is Zpack since the plates are so thin but other transmission builders use it all the time with no complaints. Main three things you have to lock down are clutch clearance, apply circuit integrity and thermal management. Do all those right and you should have good success with any performance orientated 3-4 stack up you choose to install.
Just a couple of FYIs: You are showing an Alto 057757C 3-4 PPK Module in the video, but you reference the 057757D instructions for a gap set of .035-.050. In fact, Alto recommends a gap set of .025-.040 for the 057757C. Additionally, the contents of the 057757C include: 9 Frictions @ .062 HEG 10 Steels total: 8 Steels @ .060 and 2 selective Steels @ .076 (not .080, and there are 2 selective steels, not just 1) STD Steel 1 Pressure Plate @ .125 (not .130) 1 Snap Ring @ .063 I’m not sure if you're receiving an actual 057757C kit or if a parts supplier has assembled a module from various Alto parts, effectively creating their own kit. Also, the instruction sheet for the 057757A, 057757B, and 057757C is on page 3 only. For some reason, PPK kits from certain vendors don’t supply the extra-long load release springs. Alto includes these in kits 057757A, 057757BHP, 057757AHPPWR, and 057757D, but not in the 057757C. The OE spring or new Sonnax springs are irrelevant in this setup, as the increased overall stack height leaves a large gap between the plates when installed. With the 057757C, you should get a gap of .025-.029 with all components. To clarify further: The 057757D uses G3 material frictions and Lindered steels. The 057757DX is for use in the Sonnax Smart Tech Drum with G3 material and Lindered Steels. The 057757A (A Pack) is where Raybestos got the idea for their Z Pack; Alto’s version is their Red Eagle single-sided pack. The 057757B is the economy Tan Frictions PPK with standard steel material. The 057757C is the one featured in the video (though somewhat inaccurately), with HEG (High Energy Graphite) Frictions and standard steel material. The 057757BHP is the Red and Kolene PPK. I love the content, man-keep it up! It’s VERY informative. I wish I had time to do some parts breakdowns the way you do them. Let me know if you want me to send you a set of the special 10 relief springs-I’d be happy to send them your way so you can check them out.
Hey TriStarWWPO - Thank you for all the input, details and information! Very well explained...I get all my kits from my local supplier so it's possible they assembled the kit however that Alto power pack did come in separate packaging however no instructions or other print materials were included. I'll be filming a follow up to this video with additional 3-4 clutch stack ups and make mention of some of your above as I knew there were a few different versions out there but not 100% sure what version I had so displayed the instructions found on-line so folks know they're available. I can obtain the longer 3-4 load release springs, in fact they're on my list to get for Part 2 of this 3-4 pack video series (there may even be a Part 3 if I can drum up enough content).
Run the clearance on the tight side of their spec. I personally don't like the Z-pack, never use it so, unfortunately, I can't give any first hand counsel.
When you use thicker steels or double steels, have you ever considered putting them more towards the center of the pack? It likely makes little difference but you do get a little better heat transfer,
Hi Victor, thanks for watching...I have read/heard the same, that putting thick steels in the middle can result in the best heat management, prob should have mentioned it in the video as well. What I may do is start keeping track of clutch packs and their respective heat-soak patterns to see if there's any statistically meaningful instance of heat gradients in the drum where steels in certain parts show less heat-driven damage/wear than in other parts.
While I am not a fan of the Zpak, I am leaning towards doing a "Part 2" with more 3-4 clutch pack upgrade options, including the Z-pak since many are familiar with it and has widespread use.
@@nickstransmissions Nick im looking forward to pt2. I spoke with a local HP builder and on the 700's and 4L60's load realease springs he cuts the spring cages on the top .060" on a belt sander and no issues as of late and doing it since 88 only used in HP builds.
Thank you for sharing the tip! I used to take one spring out of that cage if I was running Transgo's HR return springs and bleeder orifice in the drum, figured it was just enough to keep the frictions/steels from dragging but not enough to cause grief on apply...I like your builder's tip better since it keeps both installed, just shorter to reduce the piston's work effort to compress the clutch.
