I was just thinking the same. It wouldn't take much to thread a couple of chambers in the core, add some more exotic pinning upstairs & downstairs, a few variations in spring tension, and it could really perplex a picker who doesn't have sight of the key or know about the unusual mechanism. Even without those modifications, unless an attacker already knew to expect this lock, they'd probably not arrive at the premises with a suitable length pick. It's a really interesting lock in any case.
hey that's the second Bulgarian lock for the week:) We've had this one on our apartment door like 10year ago. It is quite cheap. I remember a lot of torn pockets because of the long keys:) Greetings from Sofia, Bulgaria.
Of course, but that's why you use an actual decent euro to start with, for example a six-pin which would give you the 12 you want, something with a decent manufacture quality, and as was said above "security pins and all the fixings" - in short, the good shit.
Precisely this. There's no way to have 12 pins in this junky Sonico lock anyway. Just mod an existing good euro cylinder with a similar style cam (can pass the key through it). Hard part would be to create a key that would be long enough. Still would be quite the sight
They should make a ridiculously long lock with a ridiculously long key. At least 20 pins. All of them different types of security pins. And double-sided, so there are actually 40 pins.
I remember that in my flat when I was a child we had lock with key that was more than twice the lenght of typical one. Almost sure that was Gerda made lock (Polish company) but have no idea on model. I do guess/recall though that it looked to have a shitload of pins.
LPL... WOW, love the lock design and how you lengthened your regular-sized pick to a custom extra-long pick to defeat this Bulgarian euro profile double-core. This “ordinary looking” lock appears to provide great picking camouflage. Would gladly carry an extra long key for this double-core security. LPL, thank you for sharing your security expertise.
I could argue that 99.9% of the people that would attempt picking this lock, would have no idea that this lock was inter connected making it very difficult to pick. I'd think the only way to get the driver pins into place would be to shim the bible and remove on the core installation. Anyway, good pick!
I feel like you'd start to get annoyed after awhile only to stick your pick in the back wondering why it's not opening only to realize there's more pins (if you pick is that long)
you'd also need really long tools to reach the second core so even if you figured out the secret you wouldn't be able to actually do anything with that information
Would have been harder to tension if the cores were split. I wonder if that is a realistic modification to increase the Lock’s pick resistance or if the actuator would allow for it... hmmm.
The Mauer GM redline has pins in both chambers and has split cores and makes it harder to tension, but being a dimple it is easier than this one as you have more room to tension it.
If installed externally, I suspect that keyway would be filled with dust and dirt from air blowing through it. Any tight tolerances would fail much earlier in that environment.
I wouldn't say it's bad, just a couple mistakes, which are both still legible. "long core its pretty good idea" should be "long core is a pretty good idea" "thief is just dont ready" should be "thief is just not ready"
I think with a few minor improvements, like security pins etc, this could be a pretty good lock, not just because of the fact you need a customised pick.
I think the interesting thing about this lock is that you wouldn't guess from the outside that it was a super long lock and it's highly improbable that someone would have an extra long pick with them. I would put a spool and a super spring on each end though and then you would just bend your pick on the last pin.
There was a euro cylinder lock of similar design in the 90's in Czech Republic made by Guard, a company later, or at that time aquired by EVVA, had six pins each side, security pins as well and you actualy needed two keys, one from the outside, the other from the inside as the profile was of course asymetric and trying for pick resistivity. And they were making it different lenghts on demand.
Hi there Lockpickinglawyer - I am a big fan of yours and really enjoy watching your videos, however, one thing I have never seen you do is putting the lock back together again after having gutted it. I'd be really interested to see that! Thanks and keep up the good work.
It's cool to see you pick this lock, I just posted my first RU-vid video featuring this same lock a few days ago. You picked yours quicker though. I was actually considering making mine into a challenge lock to send to you or Bill.
brett campbell If Bill spent as much time off camera as LPL to research the lock then he would probably pick it as fast. But sending him this lock with a mummified key, I doubt Bill would know to pick both sides of the lock.
I think what wasn't discussed is that it isn't obvious for a usual street-lock-picker is that he has to reach through to the other side, and would maybe give up, when he couldn't pick it from one side after the first 4 pins
At last, a euro lock that puts up serious resistance to a snapping attack. Prior to this, the best that has been done for snap-resistance is a sacrificial section, but that leaves a core with only 2 or 3 pins so is much easier to pick. Better than nothing, but a combined snap/pick attack on 3 pins might not be beyond some thieves. This thing required decent picking skills even after a snapping attack. It's let down by the design of the core, but the concept is a good one. Tighter tolerances and some security pins would make this a winner. Next problem, that key is going to be a real pain to put in a trouser pocket unless you're wearing cargo pants. With sealable pockets, otherwise the key will jump out when you run. There is *always* a downside to a euro lock. It's inherent in the design.
We had similar lock when I was young. I think it was a different brand and to unlock it from inside you had to use normal size key but the long one from outside.
That is freaking crazy. I think with some better machining and more security features, that lock could be pretty formidable. Some counter milling, a variety of pins, and having the two cores have different bitting. I know with each core having different bitting, you wouldn't be able to open the lock with the key from either side, but most people only lock there doors from one side anyway.
Interesting lock. This sort of design would defeat the common breakaway lookout keys that cannot be backed out of the keyway. You could just push it all the way through.
tip for them is to make the "core" like on a normal lock but that can only be tentioned from the back also if the front core is not picked the back can not moove to unlock but if the front is picked then it can freely moove only 90 degrees in either side ...
Can you explain to me what this lock is actually used for normal locks I understand rather they be bicycle locks etc, but these particular locks on this video I can't even picture what they're used for therefore they do strike my interest thanks. PS I watch you Bosnian bill and lot noob and sort of combine y'all's different techniques when it comes to picking locks which has helped considering I started picking locks long before RU-vid was ever around back in the 80s again thanks for your interesting videos
So changing the bitting to be a little more aggressive and adding security pins and aggressive springs in the far back could make this almost impossible?
Do you think there is any reason why more locks don't use security pins? It seems like a cheap and easy way to up the security level, but a lot of even mid to high security locks don't use them
Odd that it has 3 pine on one side and 4 on another. This concept seems like it coule be very challenging: tight tolerances, counter milling/threaded pin holes, security pins, varied spring strengths, 5 to 6 pins on each side, and a highly pericentric keyway.
i havent finished watching yet but that key looks just like a rake. its interesting that a lot of these "hard" locks really arent hard, its just overcoming the challenge of getting your tools to fit or adapt to the lock. it does work in the wild though when its a surprise to the attacker. edit: it looks like the pins are cut lopsided and uneven, low quality... it seems like this is the type of lock to make when youve got a ton of extra key pins to use. just throw em in there any which way and call it a high security lock with an impressively long key.
More importantly, it will defeat the snappers. Even those with picking skills good enough to attack the 2- or 3-pin core that's left after they've snapped a snap-resistant lock. Since snap attacks are by far the most common on euro locks, even with shitty cores this thing will prevent most thefts.
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction. In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right. But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
If its outside of the protecting stuff (door) usally there is no mechanism what determinate what is the opening direction. If its in the door usally you can see what is the direction by the lock side (door opening), because 90% they are turned to opposite direction. In case of chain lock is usally turning right, because mostly pple are right handed and with right hand its comfortable to turn the key right. But any case if you didnt sure what is the key turning direction, you will know soon, because you wont get the tiny turnings of the core. You can use a pencil or marker to see its moved or not...
With that key, you can get arrested for carrying a concealed weapon. Do not show this to the manufacturers marketing department, otherwise next gen of these locks the keys will be just carved to the machetes. "Longer key? You got it!"
I wonder if it would be possible to create a mechanism with which you need to apply tension to both sides of the cylinder, in order to reinforce the idea of using two keys at once or one long one as opposed to being able to pick both cylinders separately. Reaching through the middle part in order to apply that tension would make things even harder.
I've always figured the requirement of a very long key would be moderately effective. What intruder has time to modify his picks? :-) Given better pinning and tolerances, that idea could work to real advantage. For a while anyway, till longer picks became commonplace!
Ooh! I'm gonna go to my car to get my long key and see if it's symmetrical like this, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. Also on the other side of the lock that my long key opens, you only use a short key.
Make the cam much mode loosely connected to the cores and you'll have difficulties tensioning the second core via the first and having enough room in the keywas for a pick.
this could be made exceedingly more difficult if the front lock was allowed to turn 60° or enough to offset a picking tool so much that picking the rear pins under tension would be nigh impossible
Why not pick the pins from both sides simultaneously? Granted, you'd have to keep switching around the lock, and tension would be a pain to hold, but I think it could be done.
Yes, it could be done. But the idea is to approach it as a thief trying to break into your house would do. If the thief can reach both sides simultaneously then the door is already open and he has no need to pick the lock.
How unusual for a Euro cylinder. Long key would push out a key left on the inside without problem I suppose too, as long as the plugs were in the locked position....hmmm....
![[736] Sonico LONG Key Euro Cylinder Picked and Gutted](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
